For the basic science Ph.D. to M.D.

[jissho]

Did you conduct any basic science research while attending medical school? Or did you want medical school to be a completely different experience and go 100% clinical?

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[QofQuimica]

Did you conduct any basic science research while attending medical school? Or did you want medical school to be a completely different experience and go 100% clinical?

You probably won't be able to conduct much basic science research in medical school. It's not like college where many people have enough free time to work in a lab for 15-20 hours a week, and you won't have any of your summers off after the first one. That summer between first and second years is the most common time that med students do research. But this is only going to be about 8-12 weeks, which is not much time to get something major accomplished in the lab even if you're already skilled at the techniques. You also could probably do some research elective time in your fourth year if your med school allows it, but again, you're talking about maybe a month or two. In general, you should not count on doing a lot of bench research in med school unless you go to a research dual degree program (MD/PhD or MD/MS), or you take a fifth year for research on your own.

 

[Scottish Chap]

Did you conduct any basic science research while attending medical school? Or did you want medical school to be a completely different experience and go 100% clinical?

You can, but your research will be crap. Honestly. Anybody who knows anything about quality basic science research knows how hard this is. You can cheat and have techs and postdocs help you when you are gone or you might continue in the same lab as your Ph.D. if the institution has a medical school and you are lucky enough to be accepted, but it's a rare exception. You will also frustrate the lab head and its members. It's a tease to tout yourself as free labor, when you won't be coming up with the goods.

I opted to do a translational research study as it's more forgiving. I proposed a project to a lab, wrote the IRB, recruited the peeps, did the study over 4 years (human study, and collected blood), did the ELISAs a year or so later when I had a weekend free, analyzed the human performance data when I had time, wrote the paper, made a poster etc. I got a lot of mileage out of if of - presented at the med school, at a local conference, and talked about it at interviews for residency. The project was *okay*, but that's pretty much all you can expect if you want to pass your classes.

Unless you plan to take at least a year out of med school to focus on a project, don't bother listening to the med schools that tout "excellent research facilities". You won't be making use of that and it's not what you are there to do.

 

[n3xa]

Unless you plan to take at least a year out of med school to focus on a project, don't bother listening to the med schools that tout "excellent research facilities". You won't be making use of that and it's not what you are there to do.

Doh!

Thanks for the heads up

 

[jissho]

There were always quite a few medical students in basic research labs at my University (during summers or fourth year). One PI in particular was understanding of the time restraints that medical students face and gave the students smaller projects that they could get a publication on in a short period of time. Of course, a PI such as that is rare.

I like the idea of doing translational research spread out over the entire time as a medical student. It's something I will consider if I am lucky enough to be admitted!

 

[Parts Unknown]

I like the idea of doing translational research spread out over the entire time as a medical student. It's something I will consider if I am lucky enough to be admitted!

Don't worry, the appeal will wear off quickly after the first round of exams.

 

[jissho]

Don't worry, the appeal will wear off quickly after the first round of exams.

Bubble busted.... Thanks.

 

[Parts Unknown]

Bubble busted.... Thanks.

Sorry if that was a bit harsh. In graduate school research just seems so damned important. Once you crest the hill it takes on a slightly different sheen.

 

[jissho]

I've arrived at that crest. I finally realized that basic science research can have very little impact, even after a lifetime of work. It takes entire groups of scientists from different labs to push the field forward.

During my undergraduate years I was on a project that had obvious application in the real world. As a graduate student, I struggled to understand the real world connection of my thesis project. Ultimately, this search for understanding brought me to medicine.

 

[jissho]

Just out of curiosity... Are Ph.D.'s medical students called "Dr." during their clinical years? Or is this a serious violation of unwritten code of conduct?

 

[Scottish Chap]

Just out of curiosity... Are Ph.D.'s medical students called "Dr." during their clinical years? Or is this a serious violation of unwritten code of conduct?

No. It will antagonize your peers and teachers at best, and misrepresent yourself to patients at worst. We were all medical students with a common goal when I went through. Similarly, my classmate who was a pastor was referred to as Ken - not reverend.

 

[QofQuimica]

No. It will antagonize your peers and teachers at best, and misrepresent yourself to patients at worst. We were all medical students with a common goal when I went through. Similarly, my classmate who was a pastor was referred to as Ken - not reverend.

Agree.

In general, attracting attention to yourself in medical school is usually for negative reasons. Don't be That Guy.

 

[jissho]

I love all the feedback I am getting here on SDN. It is priceless!

 

[jissho]

I will have at least a year between applying for medical school and finishing graduate school (2013 cycle). I am not interested in doing a basic science research post doc. I am interested in doing patient oriented research. However, the options do not seem abound for Ph.D. graduates to work in this area. Currently, I am working on a proposal for patient oriented/translational research project but I doubt that the physician I am working with will have funding for me continue as a post-doc on the project. Anyone have an idea of what I can do or where I should look?

 

[ChemMed]

ScottishChap and Q have it right. Doing good research takes a lot of time and some luck. There wont be enough time in medical school to do this. On the flip side you may be able to help out with sections of review articles or book chapters. This was suggested to me.

 

[ChemMed]

Just out of curiosity... Are Ph.D.'s medical students called "Dr." during their clinical years? Or is this a serious violation of unwritten code of conduct?

I am actively telling them not to call me Dr. A few Profs started using that title when we first met and honestly I was the one a little uncomfortable. I am their student in this field, not the other way around.

 

[QofQuimica]

I will have at least a year between applying for medical school and finishing graduate school (2013 cycle). I am not interested in doing a basic science research post doc. I am interested in doing patient oriented research. However, the options do not seem abound for Ph.D. graduates to work in this area. Currently, I am working on a proposal for patient oriented/translational research project but I doubt that the physician I am working with will have funding for me continue as a post-doc on the project. Anyone have an idea of what I can do or where I should look?

A lot of PIs might not be interested in hiring you for just one year of post doc even if you *did* want one. As a newly minted PhD who plans to leave after one year, you aren't exactly in the driver's seat at this point in your career, my friend. I suggest that you apply broadly for research jobs (both clinical and basic), and see if your PI or this doc you're helping will make some calls on your behalf. But whatever offer you get that is reasonable, you should take it.

Alternatively, you could look into being an instructor at a CC or college for a year, which won't require a postdoc. Some of my grad school friends did that.

 

[jissho]

A Post Doctoral Fellowship in Clinical Laboratory Medicine (clinical chemistry) would be right up my alley but they require 2 years training. I guess I could take an entry level position in Laboratory Medicine... I am wondering if this is too much of a step backward though.

 

[Scottish Chap]

A Post Doctoral Fellowship in Clinical Laboratory Medicine (clinical chemistry) would be right up my alley but they require 2 years training. I guess I could take an entry level position in Laboratory Medicine... I am wondering if this is too much of a step backward though.

That's what I did between graduate school and medical school, but I had no intention of applying to medical school when I started it, so don't let me encourage you.... It did, however, mean I was essentially exempt from token shadowing experiences (other than what I had 12 years before applying to medical school).

 

[jissho]

A lot of PIs might not be interested in hiring you for just one year of post doc even if you *did* want one. As a newly minted PhD who plans to leave after one year, you aren't exactly in the driver's seat at this point in your career, my friend. I suggest that you apply broadly for research jobs (both clinical and basic), and see if your PI or this doc you're helping will make some calls on your behalf. But whatever offer you get that is reasonable, you should take it.

Alternatively, you could look into being an instructor at a CC or college for a year, which won't require a postdoc. Some of my grad school friends did that.

Yes, this is becoming painfully obvious as I begin my search for employment.