For those of you who were successful...

[dr_juvi]

***I posted this in the Post-Bacc Forum as well, just thought if I posted it here I could get some more advice since you guys are already in Med School and know what you're talking about (I look up to you guys..I really do) unlike those in the pre-allo (oh how I can't stand a lot of them!). Thanks in advance guys!



Ok so here's my story. Sorry if this is long but I need some advice. Started college in Fall 2003...decided to go towards a Biology Major ( I had this idea stuck in my head that only Bio majors got into med school). My first semester I took Bio 1 and Chem 1, along with 3 other basic classes. Dropped one of those basics (English class) and stayed with just 4 classes. By the end of my first semester I had FAILED EVERY CLASS. (I had one of the worst experiences ever in my first two years of college ). Basically had a 0.00 GPA. Came back my spring semester under academic probation, only allowed 4 classes in which I did well had a solid 3.0 for that semester) By the Fall of 2004 I had a 1.9 cum GPA (my 2nd year) and was on continued probation. I was allowed to retake one of the sciences over and the F would be erased so I decided to take the BIO 1 over....got a D..not because I didn't understand but cuz had a "depression relapse", didn't study and HATED the professor (it might sound very common but I had some horrible experiences during my first two years, personal battles, deaths, etc.) Went into my Spring 2005 semester, decided to take BIO 2 ended up withdrawing because I couldn't take the stress (ended having to go to a shrink ) Basically I was only enrolled in 3 classes (one of them being an upper level economics class, which is a requirement for my new major, International Studies and did great!) Ended up with a 3.3 GPA for the semester. So my GPA went from a 1.9 to a 2.23 cum. Taking a summer class and if all goes well my GPA will go from a 2.23 to a 2.8ish.
Now I've decided to go ahead and do a formal post-bacc (looking into CUNY's post-bacc since I'm from NYC and poor lol) when I graduate. Basically what I'm trying to do is get some advice from people who have either gone through the same stuff, are going through it, etc. I know I can do the sciences, it was just the wrong time (I'm very impatient and always wanted to do everything at once in a rush..I've grown a lot since then). I understand the stuff and I don't want the F and D in the two sciences that I do have to bring my science GPA down after the post-bacc work. I want to go to an allo school..not cuz I don't respect the DO schools, it's just not my thing. Trust me at one point I had decided to not pursue medical school, I started looking at other careers, but when I see the rewards and the prestige of it all I'm just drawn right back in. I haven't had the proper advice from the student advisors at school (CUZ THEY ARE HORRIBLE). My chem teacher did tell me that I do have the potential to get A's because he saw that I understood what he taught. Any advice, would be great...thanks a bunch you guys.

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[idq1i]

but when I see the rewards and the prestige of it all I'm just drawn right back in.

With a 2.8, no allo school is going to care what your problems were. Harsh, but true. Unless you can do a 2 year postbac, pulling a 4.0 in every class, your chances are slim to none.

On top of everything, you seem to be looking at medicine for the wrong reasons. Why "No DO"? Do you want to be a doctor, or are you looking for "respect"? Pick one.

 

[xSTALLiONx]

***I posted this in the Post-Bacc Forum as well, just thought if I posted it here I could get some more advice since you guys are already in Med School and know what you're talking about (I look up to you guys..I really do) unlike those in the pre-allo (oh how I can't stand a lot of them!). Thanks in advance guys!



Ok so here's my story. Sorry if this is long but I need some advice. Started college in Fall 2003...decided to go towards a Biology Major ( I had this idea stuck in my head that only Bio majors got into med school). My first semester I took Bio 1 and Chem 1, along with 3 other basic classes. Dropped one of those basics (English class) and stayed with just 4 classes. By the end of my first semester I had FAILED EVERY CLASS. (I had one of the worst experiences ever in my first two years of college ). Basically had a 0.00 GPA. Came back my spring semester under academic probation, only allowed 4 classes in which I did well had a solid 3.0 for that semester) By the Fall of 2004 I had a 1.9 cum GPA (my 2nd year) and was on continued probation. I was allowed to retake one of the sciences over and the F would be erased so I decided to take the BIO 1 over....got a D..not because I didn't understand but cuz had a "depression relapse", didn't study and HATED the professor (it might sound very common but I had some horrible experiences during my first two years, personal battles, deaths, etc.) Went into my Spring 2005 semester, decided to take BIO 2 ended up withdrawing because I couldn't take the stress (ended having to go to a shrink ) Basically I was only enrolled in 3 classes (one of them being an upper level economics class, which is a requirement for my new major, International Studies and did great!) Ended up with a 3.3 GPA for the semester. So my GPA went from a 1.9 to a 2.23 cum. Taking a summer class and if all goes well my GPA will go from a 2.23 to a 2.8ish.
Now I've decided to go ahead and do a formal post-bacc (looking into CUNY's post-bacc since I'm from NYC and poor lol) when I graduate. Basically what I'm trying to do is get some advice from people who have either gone through the same stuff, are going through it, etc. I know I can do the sciences, it was just the wrong time (I'm very impatient and always wanted to do everything at once in a rush..I've grown a lot since then). I understand the stuff and I don't want the F and D in the two sciences that I do have to bring my science GPA down after the post-bacc work. I want to go to an allo school..not cuz I don't respect the DO schools, it's just not my thing. Trust me at one point I had decided to not pursue medical school, I started looking at other careers, but when I see the rewards and the prestige of it all I'm just drawn right back in. I haven't had the proper advice from the student advisors at school (CUZ THEY ARE HORRIBLE). My chem teacher did tell me that I do have the potential to get A's because he saw that I understood what he taught. Any advice, would be great...thanks a bunch you guys.

Re-do sciences but understand that medical schools might see you as a HUGE liability with your unstable state of mind.. even if you go through med school.. whats to say you might not relapse into depression.. not think while doing simple surgery or something.. and end up simply screwing it up and, god forbid, killing someone.. then that reflects horribly on the med school because they were supposed to teach you those simple skills..

 

[xSTALLiONx]

I started looking at other careers, but when I see the rewards and the prestige of it all I'm just drawn right back in. I haven't had the proper advice from the student advisors at school (CUZ THEY ARE HORRIBLE). My chem teacher did tell me that I do have the potential to get A's because he saw that I understood what he taught. Any advice, would be great...thanks a bunch you guys.

In addition, while you might be concerned about the patients.. it's a pretty good indicator of your OWN thoughts on the career when you're looking for prestige and rewards when you describe the reason it draws you in.. (you can fool adcoms but you can't fool yourself)..

and in the end.. most doctors will be more prestigous than you since your past won't get you into the best med schools.. which might destroy that motivation.. throwing you back into depression..

 

[shiraz84]

Re-do sciences, do the post-bacc, get some GREAT ECs, and kick some serious ass on the MCAT. Also, don't rule out the Caribbean as an option. Good luck.

 

[Kazema]

You need to ace the post-bac, not just do well. Basically like 3.5-4.0 every semester from now on, not just "solid" 3.0's or 3.3's. You also need to do well on the MCAT, and get a balanced above average score.

You've got the right trend in your grades, but if you're shooting for US allo and US allo only, you need finish off the trend and perform at a consistently high level - as harsh at it sounds, your depression does not excuse you from having to get good grades. If you're afraid of another relapse, the take a break and get your mental health stable before starting your post-bac.

I'm wondering though how your GPA will jump from 2.23 to 2.8? How many summer classes are you taking?

It's not over, you can still get in eventually, but it's going to take a ton of hard work and persistence over probably the next 2 years before you're in a good position to apply. If prestige is the only reason you're doing this, you need to investigate medicine further and find more reasons - you need a lot more than dreams of prestige to motivate you over the next 2 years.

 

[lfesiam]

show upward trend, maturity, ability to handle hard sci under stress, if can't handle it, decide on another profession, you don't have to be a doctor to help and make a difference.

i know this is harsh but like other posters said, if you don't pull 4.0 in a postbac and 33+ MCAT, your chances are around very slim to none at an allopathic school.

 

[DocGina]

"my GPA went from a 1.9 to a 2.23 cum. I want to go to an allo school..not cuz I don't respect the DO schools, it's just not my thing."

Sorry, with a 2.23 cum I don't think DO is an option whether you would consider it or not. Even if you achieve better grades in a post bach program, you'll still end of explaining your low undergrad (that's even if you get a chance to explain, many Allo and DO schools won't send you a secondary let alone grant you an interview due to a minimum GPA cut off). Just to give you an idea of the competition, I have a 3.71 (same overall GPA and science GPA) and my post bach science GPA was 3.80 and I was accepted at two DO schools (I didn't apply to allo schools). I'm pretty sure that my stats are slightly above average (last year average DO school starting class GPA's were around 3.54 overall). That's pretty damn good.

Also, the admissions process is overwhelming and many ad com's use any excuse to narrow down the pool - including low undergrad grades and this puts you at risk.

Please don't take this the wrong way- I'm just giving you the statistics. However, if your life's dream is being a doc then why not at least try to achieve a respectable post bach GPA and apply anyway, that way you'll know that you did everything possible in your power and you'll have no regrets. Who knows, you may even get in! Best of luck to you.

 

[Braveheart]

Here is some motivation from an angel from SUNY Stony Brook with facts about medical school.


Not all application services produce national applicant and acceptance data with the same degree of detail. However, if you look over the attached pages you might be able to tease out a message of hope that is very, very strongly tinged with a loud note of caution. Here are some numbers that are both sobering and promising.

1. MCAT: 75 people with a verbal reasoning score below 5 got into US MD schools in 2003
2. MCAT: Less than 90 people with a Physical Sciences score below a 5 got into US MD schools in 2003
3. MCAT: About 60 people with a 5 or below on the Biological Sciences section of the MCAT got accepted in 2003
4. 60 people with a total MCAT score of 17 or below got into US MD schools.
5. GPA: A little over 150 people with an undergraduate science GPA of 2.5 or below got into med school in 2003.
6. About 185 people with undergraduate GPAs below a 2.75 got into US MD schools in 2003.

 

[cali7925]

I think u should take care of your mental health before continuing with a postbac. program. Dont rule med school out yet, but as others said u need to ace the postbac. You cant do this if you are not clear of mind. I think u should take u're time and get therapy and tx for depression.

Get a job meanwhile and focus on getting healthy. Remember, if u are not healthy u wont be able to care for others to the best of your abilities and more importantly you will be miserable...med school is very intense compared to undergrad.

I think when u get in good health, try u're best in a postbac program u enjoy, so if u dont get into med school you have an alternate route. Being a doc isnt the only profession of importance, and i dont think prestige will make u happy if u dont love what u do....u really need to be very honest with yourself on what will make u happy....its difficult to do...even for myself.

You dont need to respect all med students...we are not all super nice people...we are just people...we have our good and bad sides and have enough pricks in our bunch.

D.O. is the same as M.D.....also physician assistants and nurse's, clinical psychologists, podiatrists, optometrists, dentists etc are equally important in providing people with health care and u can also earn a good living in these professions. I really think if u are unable to get into med school for whatever reason, look into these options...they will give u an equally fulfilling career...remember being a doctor or a med student is not a bed of roses....there are ups and DOWNS to the process.

I wish you the best of luck in healing yourself....and remember....your health should be your NUMBER ONE PRIORITY...it is the key to building the rest of your life...builld it before med schl.

Take care.

 

[dr_juvi]

Here is some motivation from an angel from SUNY Stony Brook with facts about medical school.


Not all application services produce national applicant and acceptance data with the same degree of detail. However, if you look over the attached pages you might be able to tease out a message of hope that is very, very strongly tinged with a loud note of caution. Here are some numbers that are both sobering and promising.

1. MCAT: 75 people with a verbal reasoning score below 5 got into US MD schools in 2003
2. MCAT: Less than 90 people with a Physical Sciences score below a 5 got into US MD schools in 2003
3. MCAT: About 60 people with a 5 or below on the Biological Sciences section of the MCAT got accepted in 2003
4. 60 people with a total MCAT score of 17 or below got into US MD schools.
5. GPA: A little over 150 people with an undergraduate science GPA of 2.5 or below got into med school in 2003.
6. About 185 people with undergraduate GPAs below a 2.75 got into US MD schools in 2003.

Thanks a bunch...that stuff is comforting, although there will be a certain few that will also have something negative to say about those numbers. It's always a relief to know little facts like that. I think that because i said prestige some of u thought i only meant prestige..i also said rewards..as in life rewards. i'm confused..if not for these two reasons (which are in my list of many more) then why are you who already are in med school pursuing medicine? maybe it's not obvious that i'm willing to slave away and work hours upon hours to, in the end know that i helped save a life or two. oh and by the way DO and MD are the same and are equally respectful, but shouldn't you believe in the DO methods in order to practice it? yea a doctor is a doctor is a doctor but that's just not the road i want to take..simple. its the MD road. that's why you choose which you want to be. anyway thanks guys keep all the thoughts coming.

 

[Law2Doc]

Here is some motivation from an angel from SUNY Stony Brook with facts about medical school.


Not all application services produce national applicant and acceptance data with the same degree of detail. However, if you look over the attached pages you might be able to tease out a message of hope that is very, very strongly tinged with a loud note of caution. Here are some numbers that are both sobering and promising.

1. MCAT: 75 people with a verbal reasoning score below 5 got into US MD schools in 2003
2. MCAT: Less than 90 people with a Physical Sciences score below a 5 got into US MD schools in 2003
3. MCAT: About 60 people with a 5 or below on the Biological Sciences section of the MCAT got accepted in 2003
4. 60 people with a total MCAT score of 17 or below got into US MD schools.
5. GPA: A little over 150 people with an undergraduate science GPA of 2.5 or below got into med school in 2003.
6. About 185 people with undergraduate GPAs below a 2.75 got into US MD schools in 2003.

While these figures may be true, it is really a bad idea (and likely going to result in a waste of money) to rely on such as evidence that you too would likely get in with such stats. For example, you can't know if the people with the low MCAT or undergrad GPAs didn't have substantial graduate work & grades, advanced degrees, important publications, were legacies and/or other such. It's also likely that those with low MCAT scores in one section were impressively higher in the other sections, with perhaps a decently high overall MCAT score. Thus if you have an undergrad GPA as described in #5 or #6 above and nothing else spectacular, a postbac or SMP may be necessary to make you competitive; if you have an MCAT score or scores in parts #1-4 above, you probably should consider retaking it before applying. It is expensive to apply, and you really want all your ducks in a row before doing so. Just my two cents.

 

[knownothing]

Here is some motivation from an angel from SUNY Stony Brook with facts about medical school.


Not all application services produce national applicant and acceptance data with the same degree of detail. However, if you look over the attached pages you might be able to tease out a message of hope that is very, very strongly tinged with a loud note of caution. Here are some numbers that are both sobering and promising.

1. MCAT: 75 people with a verbal reasoning score below 5 got into US MD schools in 2003
2. MCAT: Less than 90 people with a Physical Sciences score below a 5 got into US MD schools in 2003
3. MCAT: About 60 people with a 5 or below on the Biological Sciences section of the MCAT got accepted in 2003
4. 60 people with a total MCAT score of 17 or below got into US MD schools.
5. GPA: A little over 150 people with an undergraduate science GPA of 2.5 or below got into med school in 2003.
6. About 185 people with undergraduate GPAs below a 2.75 got into US MD schools in 2003.

those stats are ridiculous, it makes you wonder and not a warm fuzzy wonder

 

[domukin]

Re-do sciences, do the post-bacc, get some GREAT ECs, and kick some serious ass on the MCAT. Also, don't rule out the Caribbean as an option. Good luck.

I think SDN is too forgiving at times, we don't seem to discourage anyone from pursuing medicine. This sounds like a noble cause, but the truth is that not everyone can be or should be a physician.

The OP has a history of mental illness, horrible grades, no MCAT, no ECs and seems to want the prestige and glamour of medicine. Seriously, what does he have going for him? It's not my call to say you can or can't be a physician, but I know I don't want you to be MY physician, and I would hope ADCOMs feel the same way. I'm sorry if I'm harsh, but the truth of the matter is that doctors have a huge responsibility and I would not trust you with my life.

If you really are interested in the medical field, I'm sure you could find something else that could be exciting to you and beneficial to society.

 

[kgoods5]

oh and by the way DO and MD are the same and are equally respectful, but shouldn't you believe in the DO methods in order to practice it?

Most DO I know don't use OMM in their everyday practice. That would be the major thing that separates DOs from MDs...as far as the philosophy, theirs is to "treat the whole person instead of the symptoms"...when you're a doctor, no one is going to tell you how to treat patients, as long as you're doing a good job...most of the time you can't even tell the difference between the way a DO and an MD practices. If you really do want to practice medicine, it may be a choice of either the DO route or nothing...if that's the case, what do you choose? I'm only saying this because I had the opportunity to choose between a DO and an MD school and I really saw positives to both. I also doubt I'd use OMM or the philosophy in my own practice, but given the choice, I'd rather be a doctor than nothing if I didn't get accepted MD. If you want to give yourself the optimum chance, apply to both...don't shut out DO schools.

 

[dr_juvi]

I think SDN is too forgiving at times, we don't seem to discourage anyone from pursuing medicine. This sounds like a noble cause, but the truth is that not everyone can be or should be a physician.

The OP has a history of mental illness, horrible grades, no MCAT, no ECs and seems to want the prestige and glamour of medicine. Seriously, what does he have going for him? It's not my call to say you can or can't be a physician, but I know I don't want you to be MY physician, and I would hope ADCOMs feel the same way. I'm sorry if I'm harsh, but the truth of the matter is that doctors have a huge responsibility and I would not trust you with my life.

If you really are interested in the medical field, I'm sure you could find something else that could be exciting to you and beneficial to society.

umm..i'm a she first of all and second of all i don't have a history of mental illness lol, but then again i don't know you so therefore i don't need to really explain myself to u...oh by the way..u saying that u wouldn't want me to be UR physician doesn't really matter to me..how don't u know UR physician went thru worse? don't worry u don't even need to answer cuz ur opinions don't really matter to me.. to be honest with u and everyone else on here..the advice given on this forum is great and can also be horrible. i've gotten to the point in my life where i've learned to follow my own path and decisions regardless of whether or not i succeed..at least i tried and i'll have the satisfaction of knowing that . that's why that was my last "seeking for advice" post..i;m confident that in 20 years i'll remember this and laugh and wonder how far gunners/trolls like u made it and be very happy doing what i'll be doing..treating MY patients...

 

[DrBowtie]

umm..i'm a she first of all and second of all i don't have a history of mental illness lol, but then again i don't know you so therefore i don't need to really explain myself to u...oh by the way..u saying that u wouldn't want me to be UR physician doesn't really matter to me..how don't u know UR physician went thru worse? don't worry u don't even need to answer cuz ur opinions don't really matter to me.. to be honest with u and everyone else on here..the advice given on this forum is great and can also be horrible. i've gotten to the point in my life where i've learned to follow my own path and decisions regardless of whether or not i succeed..at least i tried and i'll have the satisfaction of knowing that . that's why that was my last "seeking for advice" post..i;m confident that in 20 years i'll remember this and laugh and wonder how far gunners/trolls like u made it and be very happy doing what i'll be doing..treating MY patients...

Well, he does have some merit since he will be attending a medical school next year. I also think you need to be honest with yourself in that you have a long road to medicine ahead of you. So drop the attitude and spend the next 2-3 years fixing your app.

Also how else would "depression relapse" be interpreted? If not history of mental illness, how?

 

[Blake]

Think twice about med school if you have depression issues, seriously. A good friend of mine dropped out of my school 3 weeks ago (during the finals) because of that. She already had episodes of depression, and that surely didn't help. I'm one of the few people who thinks med school isn't all that rough (so far), but don't kid yourself, you still need a strong mind to go through it.

 

[dr_juvi]

I also think you need to be honest with yourself in that you have a long road to medicine ahead of you. So drop the attitude and spend the next 2-3 years fixing your app.

Also how else would "depression relapse" be interpreted? If not history of mental illness, how?

Actually I don't have an attitude..but ok..and I know its not a history cuz I was told by a professional its not a history..it happened ONCE be4 not several times...thanks for the in put anyways

 

[evade]

Actually I don't have an attitude..but ok..and I know its not a history cuz I was told by a professional its not a history..it happened ONCE be4 not several times...thanks for the in put anyways

I hate to be harsh here, but if you have not been formally diagnosed at any point in your life with depression, how can you justify a "depression relapse?" It sounds like a huge cop-out. Everyone has problems in their life and down times, and many get through without dropping to a "D" average.

Also, I really hate to be a jerk about this sort of thing, but with the way you type I am finding it very, very hard to take you seriously. You come off as a kid seeking reassurance that it's okay, you can still be a doctor, and you can still hang with the cool crowd. I really can't give you that reassurance. The only thing I would suggest to you is taking a good chunk of time off to gain work experience, and to ace the heck out of a post-bac.

 

[DrBowtie]

The word "relapse" means that you were in depression, got out, and went back into depression. That establishes a pattern and therefore a history. You should have used better diction if you didn't want your bout with depression to seem like a history. Therefore a relapse would entail atleast 2 times you have been depressed unlike the "ONCE" you have said.

 

[PhotoMD]

Actually I don't have an attitude..but ok..and I know its not a history cuz I was told by a professional its not a history..it happened ONCE be4 not several times...thanks for the in put anyways

Don't ask for advice and an honest opinion if what you really want is for everyone to tell you that you will absolutely succeed. The fact is, you haven't really given any admissions committee any reason to accept you beyond your reasons for going into medicine: "life rewards and prestige."

Definitely think hard about why you want to get into medicine. Shadow a doctor to get a reality check on what medicine really is. Given your awful grades in the classes that count, if you are truly dedicated to medicine, I would suggest entering a graduate program and obtaining an MS or Ph.D. Even beyond that, I might suggest another career in health sciences. You may need to spend 5-10 years proving yourself before US Allopathic becomes a probability.

 

[domukin]

umm..i'm a she first of all and second of all i don't have a history of mental illness lol, but then again i don't know you so therefore i don't need to really explain myself to u...oh by the way..u saying that u wouldn't want me to be UR physician doesn't really matter to me..how don't u know UR physician went thru worse? don't worry u don't even need to answer cuz ur opinions don't really matter to me.. to be honest with u and everyone else on here..the advice given on this forum is great and can also be horrible. i've gotten to the point in my life where i've learned to follow my own path and decisions regardless of whether or not i succeed..at least i tried and i'll have the satisfaction of knowing that . that's why that was my last "seeking for advice" post..i;m confident that in 20 years i'll remember this and laugh and wonder how far gunners/trolls like u made it and be very happy doing what i'll be doing..treating MY patients...

Sorry for calling you a guy. I know most (99%) of physicians had their act together because of the very selective and grueling process that is medical education. It's too bad you don't care about my opinion, but I like telling it how it is and not BS'ing anyone. I agree with the previous post regarding attitude, definition of “history of mental illness”, and proper diction, so I won't beat a dead horse. Good luck with everything.