For those that say "Cheapest School" no matter the circumstance... What do you think about this situation:

[zdoq]

So- I'm back again with another school decision thread. But this one is more complicated so I'm putting it in the pre-dental forum. I was recently invited to interview at a couple of Canadian schools (University of Toronto, McGill University). For those that aren't familiar with the Canadian dental school admissions process, it is much more competitive than gaining admission to American dental school because there are only a handful of dental schools in Canada. The avg stat for an applciation turn out to be something like 3.8 GPA and 22 DAT (estimation, not sure of the actual statistic).

Anyways- I was accepted into dental schools that I really do like and would love to attend in America. However, the possibility of attending a Canadian school is turning me for a loop because the tuition is so much cheaper. We're talking 100k-160k total COA over 4 years, and that's in CAD.

It gets more complicated. I am a Canadian citizen and a US Permanent Resident. I get to apply for US Citizenship this March, and the process until I get that naturalization certificate will probably take 9-12 months. During this time, I cannot leave the United States for more than a few months without jeopardizing the citizenship process.

So, I would have to defer admission to these Canadian schools if I want to keep the possibility of being a US citizen within reach. [I've reached out to the schools and they say I would be able to defer if I am accepted] I've been waiting for so... SO... long to be able to apply for US citzenship, and I don't want to walk away from it now.

Would it be worth it to defer a year (maybe work as a research tech... or as a dental assistant) to save 200k? Additionally- since my S.O. would be staying in America for his own grad school program, would it be worth it to start a LDR for 200k? Help!!

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[izgohabsgo]

As someone who will be going to an American school because I was rejected by my alma mater McGill, congrats on your interviews!

There are a lot of variables in that question- do you plan on returning to the US even if you go to school in Canada? How does your SO figure in this problem, will he be joining you afterwards in US or Canada?

I would be thrilled to get into a Canadian school and being a citizen already, staying there. It sucks about the US Citizenship but if you can save that debt and have a successful Career north of the border, it seems like a pretty solid choice.

That being said, I'm coming at this as a single dual citizen- so I suppose it matters more the future of your relationship and where you want to end up geographically.

 

[zdoq]

Thanks so much for your reply- I ideally want to come back to the US after dental school and apply to specialty programs (I am heavily interested in OMFS). I know the OMFS program director at UMich went to Dalhousie, then went to Emory for OMFS training, so it is possible.

For this reason, I really want to get my US citizenship before heading to Canada. Otherwise I’d have to go through the Visa/Permanent resident/Naturalization process all over again. I guess for me right now the question boils down to “is 200k worth 1 year of my life & possibly my relationship”?

 

[ESPN907]

Save your relationship, save the money, get your citizenship. Congrats!

 

[2thPirate🦷]

Does your family still live in Canada, and if so would they be close to those schools?

 

[zdoq]

Save your relationship, save the money, get your citizenship. Congrats!

I can’t do all 3 though- hopefully I explained my situation clearly in the first post?

 

[DocStranger]

Deferring isn’t worth it. Plus that citizenship is far more valuable. I’d stay in the U.S., attend the school with ur S.O., and receive the citizenship. That 200k shouldn’t play a factor at all.

Don’t think about this situation unless you get accepted until Canadian dental schools. Then lay out the pro’s and con’s.

 

[zdoq]

Does your family still live in Canada, and if so would they be close to those schools?

My family lives in michigan and windsor, ON, both are a 4 hour drive from toronto. I have some friends in the Toronto area. I don’t have family near Montreal (McGill) but I’ve solo-traveled there before and loved it. I could definitely see myself living there. It’s just I’m not sure if it’s worth it to “leave my life behind” in the US for 4 years. It’s easier now with internet and video chats, but it’s so hard to tell if that will be enough for 4 years

 

[2thPirate🦷]

My family lives in michigan and windsor, ON, both are a 4 hour drive from toronto. I have some friends in the Toronto area. I don’t have family near Montreal (McGill) but I’ve solo-traveled there before and loved it. I could definitely see myself living there. It’s just I’m not sure if it’s worth it to “leave my life behind” in the US for 4 years. It’s easier now with internet and video chats, but it’s so hard to tell if that will be enough for 4 years

Yeah I feel that, but you also have your SO to think about, plus like it was said above, citizenship is a pretty big deal. I’ve had relatives go through the process so I know how it can be, imo you stick with the US schools, especially bc you don’t know whether you’ve gotten into the Canadian ones yet.

 

[PerioDont]

A bird in the hand...wait till you get admissions into a Canadian school before any major decision.

Personally, I would probably defer admissions, get the citizenship and go back to canada for dental school. You could do whatever for a year, wouldn't matter too much. Doesn't have to be dental, you got your acceptance already at that point.

 

[doc toothache]

So- I'm back again with another school decision thread. But this one is more complicated so I'm putting it in the pre-dental forum. I was recently invited to interview at a couple of Canadian schools (University of Toronto, McGill University). For those that aren't familiar with the Canadian dental school admissions process, it is much more competitive than gaining admission to American dental school because there are only a handful of dental schools in Canada. The avg stat for an applciation turn out to be something like 3.8 GPA and 22 DAT (estimation, not sure of the actual statistic).

FYI, the degree of competitiveness has little to do with the number of schools. Rather, it is a function of the ratio of applicants to enrollees. There are 9 podiatry schools in the nation, but with ~ 1000 applicants and 671 enrollees, one can hardly call gaining admission as competitive. Granted, AACPM might disagree with this assessment.

Canadian DS-The Hoopla over "HIGH" Admission Stats-Part II

Canadians aspiring to gain admission to US ds are relentless in their claim of superiority in gpa required for enrollment in their native schools. The problem is not that the numbers are not real; the problem lies with the significantly different grading systems used. Trying to compare Canadian...

forums.studentdoctor.net

2011 Canadia DS GPA-DAT

Our cousins to the north like to brag how applicants with gpa lower than a ~3.9 need not bother applying. The claim may be a bit of an exaggeration.

forums.studentdoctor.net

 

[TheGreatNorth]

Current McGill student here, the prices are a little more expensive than you mentioned.

COA at McGill (OOP) is about 100k tuition + 20k/year COL = 180k total
Uoft is 200k tuition + 25k/year COL = 300k total

Would these new tuition prices make a difference to your situation? Also, UofT has about 65% acceptance rate post-interview, whereas McGill has about a 25% acceptance rate post-interview for OOP.

 

[2thPirate🦷]

Current McGill student here, the prices are a little more expensive than you mentioned.

COA at McGill (OOP) is about 100k tuition + 20k/year COL = 180k total
Uoft is 200k tuition + 25k/year COL = 300k total

Would these new tuition prices make a difference to your situation? Also, UofT has about 65% acceptance rate post-interview, whereas McGill has about a 25% acceptance rate post-interview for OOP.

View attachment 329522

If this is true, then unless you get into McGill, staying in the States seems like the logical choice, no? As the savings of going to UofT would be small relative to the total costs of the universities. I’ve read your UCSF vs Colorado thread and I believe you said Colorado would be $250K? If the numbers TheGreatNorth gave are in CAD, you’d only save about 15-16K overall going to UofT.

 

[zdoq]

Yes it seems I botched the numbers up in my initial post. Still I believe the difference is substantial because the education loans from Canada do not accrue any interest while you are in school and accrue very slowly when you are out of school (I believe it is at the prime rate which is around 2.5%?)

When I calculate for loans accruing while I am in school for these American dental schools the numbers end up being right around 300k. I am calculating for the worst case scenario of everything going back to the normal rates of 6.6% and 7.6% for direct grad plus loans respectively.

 

[TheGreatNorth]

Yes it seems I botched the numbers up in my initial post. Still I believe the difference is substantial because the education loans from Canada do not accrue any interest while you are in school and accrue very slowly when you are out of school (I believe it is at the prime rate which is around 2.5%?)

When I calculate for loans accruing while I am in school for these American dental schools the numbers end up being right around 300k. I am calculating for the worst case scenario of everything going back to the normal rates of 6.6% and 7.6% for direct grad plus loans respectively.

Nope, your LOC does accrue interest even in Canada while you're in school at a rate of 2.2% (prime -0.25) annually. 6 months after dental school your loan goes into repayment usually, but that can change if you switch to a professional LOC (Scotiabank).

Either way the interest charged by US banks is significantly more than Canadian Banks; however, you can use a Canadian bank's LOC to finance your USA dental school, so it wouldn't make a difference. The Canadian bank will charge you prime-0.25 interest whether you attend US or Canadian dental school.

Also, since you're interested in OMFS - McGill has a relatively high specialization rate. The curriculum is P/F no rank, with first year and half being with med students so it should help with your CBSE test. The only specialty residency McGill has is OMFS, so we get a lot of exposure/externship opportunities in that field.

 

[zdoq]

Nope, your LOC does accrue interest even in Canada while you're in school at a rate of 2.2% (prime -0.25) annually. 6 months after dental school your loan goes into repayment usually, but that can change if you switch to a professional LOC (Scotiabank).

Either way the interest charged by US banks is significantly more than Canadian Banks; however, you can use a Canadian bank's LOC to finance your USA dental school, so it wouldn't make a difference. The Canadian bank will charge you prime-0.25 interest whether you attend US or Canadian dental school.

Also, since you're interested in OMFS - McGill has a relatively high specialization rate. The curriculum is P/F no rank, with first year and half being with med students so it should help with your CBSE test. The only specialty residency McGill has is OMFS, so we get a lot of exposure/externship opportunities in that field.

Thanks for the clarification- I’ve been reading so much on this it’s getting jumbled up. I believe that LOC do accrue interest but the government educational loans given based on need do not.

I called multiple Canadian banks and they told me that if I wanted to use Canadian LOC for an American school it would count as an international school, so the rate becomes prime + 2%, which would be 4.5%. Not as great but it is also something I am thinking about.

 

[NewtonStar]

I feel like if you go to Harvard for example, you'll have a better chance at specializing. So the cheapest school is not always the best route.

 

[ESPN907]

I feel like if you go to Harvard for example, you'll have a better chance at specializing. So the cheapest school is not always the best route.

Are you saying any of the 35 Harvard dental students in any give class or year could specialize if they wanted to? Cheaper school can make going to residency seem more feasible because of the lighter debt load...at 500k you may feel inclined to hit the workforce so you can stop watching it grow