Ford Foundation Fellowship- is it better to have 3 or 5 letters?

[modestmousktr]

Hello All!

I hope everyone is well as the semester/quarter chugs along! I have a question regarding the Ford Foundation Fellowship, or similar fellowships which require 3-5 letters of recommendation. Is it better to have three extremely detailed/strong letters from people that know you in multiple capacities, or five letters that are strong, but have less personal evidence.

For example, I am thinking I can have three letters from:

1. My faculty advisor in Ph.D. program. We have known each other for one year now, worked on multiple manuscripts and conference presentations, and I have taken several classes with this person. Therefore, they know me as a student, a researcher, and a clinician in training.
2. My faculty advisor and thesis committee chair from my M.A. degree. We knew each other for two years, and have continued our professional relationship into my doctoral program. This person knows me as a student in class, as a researcher, and as a teaching assistant.
3. A faculty member at my Ph.D. program who I have had for two classes, and have TAed sections for. We have met several times regarding diversity in the program, so this person knows me as a student, as a teaching assistant, and as an advocate.

Thus, these folks know me in multiple domains and can personally attest to skills that the fellowship program is looking for. If I were to try to garner two more letters, they would be from scenarios like this:

4 & 5. A faculty member at my current Ph.D. program who I took diversity with. This class was extremely reflective and personal, so they know me on a personal level, in addition to knowing my skills as a student and my interests in educational and mental health equity. However, they do not have first hand experience as myself as a researcher or educator.


So my question is, is it better to have three letters from people who can personally attest to my skills and interests aligning with Ford's mission, thus having evidence other than what they are reading from information I'm providing, or five letter writers (two of whom would only be able to speak to my skills as a student, and just be relaying any other information from my personal statement).

Sorry if this is convoluted- just trying to provide as many details as possible. Still trying to work on that succinct thing. Thank you all so much, and have a fabulous weekend!

Warmly,

modestmousktr

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[entitlement]

I got had the Ford dissertation fellowship, and I had 5 letters, but all 5 attested to either my research or teaching skills. For example, I had four letters from faculty I worked with on research (two from my program, two outside my program) and one letter from my faculty teaching mentor. Your letters 4/5 sound kind of weak, especially since it sounds like you are applying for the dissertation fellowship. The dissertation fellowship is highly competitive, especially for clinical psychology students. I was the only clinical psychology applicant the year I got it and I think typically that is the case. I have always gotten the advice that if you have optional rec letters to submit, you should only use the optional ones if they are just as strong as the required ones. Anything else looks like padding and could be viewed unfavorably. And in this case at your level, having rec letters come from an instructor in your course is not viewed favorably. Do you have clinical supervisors who could speak to your mentoring abilities and/or commitment for working with underserved populations? One of my letters came from a clinical supervisor (although I did also work as a project manager under them at one point in time).

 

[modestmousktr]

I got had the Ford dissertation fellowship, and I had 5 letters, but all 5 attested to either my research or teaching skills. For example, I had four letters from faculty I worked with on research (two from my program, two outside my program) and one letter from my faculty teaching mentor. Your letters 4/5 sound kind of weak, especially since it sounds like you are applying for the dissertation fellowship. The dissertation fellowship is highly competitive, especially for clinical psychology students. I was the only clinical psychology applicant the year I got it and I think typically that is the case. I have always gotten the advice that if you have optional rec letters to submit, you should only use the optional ones if they are just as strong as the required ones. Anything else looks like padding and could be viewed unfavorably. And in this case at your level, having rec letters come from an instructor in your course is not viewed favorably. Do you have clinical supervisors who could speak to your mentoring abilities and/or commitment for working with underserved populations? One of my letters came from a clinical supervisor (although I did also work as a project manager under them at one point in time).

This is excellent advice, and exactly what I was looking for! Thank you so much. I could totally see how the extra letters appear as fluff- especially at this point in my career, where I should be making relationships outside of the classroom. I am actually applying for the predoctoral fellowship, the one that provides 3 years of funding. I am just starting my second year of my Counseling Psychology doctoral program. I am a bit hesitant to ask my clinical supervisor for a letter of recommendation, as I just started practicum when the quarter began late September, so she will have only seen me seeing clients for four months until the letter is due in January. However, I primarily see Latinx clients in a low-cost community clinic, which is congruent with my research interests of access and utilization for depressed and suicidal Latinx folks, and my career goals/teaching goals of working at a federally designated Hispanic-Serving Institution. Based on your advice, I will definitely just stick with the three strong letters I have, as opposed to reaching for five. Do you think that four months of supervision would be an appropriate amount of time for my clinical supervisor to be able to speak to my skills? If so, I would love to ask her. We have a good relationship, similar research interests, and I'm planning to ask her to be on my qualifying exam committee, in addition to the fact that we meet weekly to discuss cases and view videos of my clinical interactions.

Additionally, I just started this position as well, but I am working as a paid assessment specialist at a low-income community clinic that provides therapy for (again, primarily Latinx families) families experiencing domestic or sexual violence. I am hoping to complete my externship at this site after I finish my current practicum. The doctoral supervisor there could definitely speak to my strong commitment to working with underserved groups in research and clinical capacities, but again, by the time the LORs are due, we will only have had a relationship for four months.

It seems I am probably best just sending off the three letters from the individuals who have known me throughout my first year of doctoral study and throughout my M.A., unless four months is not a short amount of time for a clinical supervisor to feel they know their supervisee (which I feel it probably is). What are your thoughts? Also.. thank you so much for letting me pick your brain!

Also, congratulations on your fellowship. I know the Ford Foundation is so competitive, and I really doubt I will even make it to honorable mention. I'm coming from a low-income background, and am part of the first generation in my family to obtain a college degree, so funding is rough. I love teaching, but I absolutely have to teach every quarter to get my stipend and tuition remission. Others in my program who are not of the same background and do not receive funding through TAships are able to support themselves via family, and I notice they have a lot more time to build community relationships and conduct research. I'd love to have the opportunity to take even a quarter off to focus more on the community and on my research (which is absolutely not feasible without a fellowship!).

Thank you so much for your wonderful help. Enjoy the rest of your weekend!

 

[entitlement]

Not a problem! I read MA thesis above and just realized I misread it to mean your thesis in your doctoral program, but it sounds like you might have gotten a MA before going into a PhD. I still think even though you are applying to the predoc that you should not have letters from instructors, and it seems like you are reaching the same conclusion.

I would say it is only up to you and your clinical supervisors to conclude whether 4 months is enough to write a strong letter. I've had people I've known for that long be able to write really strong letters because they got to know me and my work very well. Actually, my concern at this point is more that they will speak to your clinical skills and less so mentoring/teaching/research which is what the Ford wants. I was thinking more of clinical supervisors that also may due research and/or are faculty at your institution (or another academic institution). You may want to ask around other folks but I would think that Ford reviewers would not look upon this so favorably. All your materials need to point to a career in teaching, mentoring, and research with underserved/underrepresented groups. It sounds like you are most definitely heading that direction with your interests in Latinxs/HSIs.

Please don't take what I said about the Ford Fellowship being competitive as saying that you shouldn't apply and/or don't stand a chance! Just wanted to have some real talk about how hard that is to get because folks outside of our interests and backgrounds don't seem to know it very well. I'm also first-generation student and second-generation in the U.S. from a working class background, so I can relate! My friends and classmates who also got the Ford are from similar backgrounds. It is possible, just be sure that everything you submit for that application is geared toward teaching/research/mentoring. You sound very competitive and its worth a try - and if you don't succeed, try again next year!

By the way, have you looked at the APA's Minority Fellowship Program? You would totally qualify for that as well and while it is cleared toward more service delivery, especially services that meet SAHMSA's priorities, from what I gathered from above, you would also be a competitive applicant for this program.