gaining clinical experience

[hello3angel]

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Would you suggest I take an EMT class or a CNA class to get some clinical experience?

 

[Appless]

Emt > cna

 

[MSUSpartan642]

I wouldnt disagree that EMT>CNA, but my CNA certification was pretty eye opening. You will get some repect for doing the "dirty" job around too. Its not as bad as a lot of SDN premeds like to make it. I mean poop, pee, vomit, and blood are gonna be part of our jobs and lives for a long time. Get used to it.

 

[Algophiliac]

For those of you who say EMT, how on earth do you have time in your college schedule to actually ride out with the emergency teams?

And is employment pretty decent for both certifications?

 

[DocM13]

I totally agree with Spartan above. Being a CNA makes you really appreciate the profession of some of those whom you will be working with. Plus, if you really can't handle the "dirty" work, do you really deserve to be a doctor? Think about it.

 

[Appless]

I wasnt saying CNA was bad or anything but truthfully do w/e it is you like more. There are tons of ways to get clinical exposure and from my experience interviewing its not really what you do but what you got out of it. You could volunteer for 2 yrs in the ER but if you just do filing and runing tests to the lab you have wasted your 2 years in doing useless things that no one cares about. Anything that gets you interaction with patients and a more in depth look into the different facets of medicine and what it is a doc truly does is good whether thats CNA, EMT, or otherwise.

 

[MSUSpartan642]

For those of you who say EMT, how on earth do you have time in your college schedule to actually ride out with the emergency teams?

And is employment pretty decent for both certifications?

I thought about doing an EMT program but the problem I ran into was just the rational if putting all that time into and taking a spot in the class would have been worth it. I mean that can be a career for some people and I would just be using it as experience. Adcoms will understand that you might not have the time/money to become and EMT and then jump right into school and never use it.

However if your gonna get your EMT and then use it for a couple years and go back to school I would think that would be GREAT experience.

Employment is pretty easy for CNA's. You can find a job but it wont pay a ton (B/w 8-12 $/hr)

 

[ShinyDome19]

- Some schools offer summer EMT-Basic training programs. They are typically pretty hectic. For instance, the one I took was 5 days a week, 8 hours a day (4 hours lecture, 4 hours procedure training) for two and a half months. Then, during the second month you start doing rotations. It may be different, but when I did it we were required to do 45 hours in the ambulance and 45 hours in the ER..then we had an extra 10 hours we could do at either ER or on an ambulance. If your a college student use to taking 12+ hours of pure science, its pretty easy to ace the lecture and most of the clinical training part of the course without really studying. You gotta remember, that, like MSUspartan said above, these courses are generally meant for people who are looking to make a career out of being a medic/fire-fighter, not college students who are use to studying long hours for very difficult courses. The hardest part is when you start doing your clinical rotations and you also work; I worked part-time on the weekends, which meant that I had to do 8-12 hour shifts at the ER/Ambulance over night on weekdays after class, usually 7 pm to 7 am- and then have to be in class first thing in the morning at 8am, and yes I did shower in that hour between class and rotation. (my instructors were pretty cool though, if I fell asleep in class, they let me sleep). If I didnt have to work, I could have done most of my clinical rotations on the weekends.

- The biggest and best part of being an EMT, even at the Basic level, if you can find a private ambulance company like I did, one that runs basic crews, you get your own patients...and you'd be supprised at some of the situations your trained to handle even at the basic level. You can also do volunteer EMS for some of the small towns out in the boons and you handle vehicle accidents and just about every other bad thing that can happen to people...As bad as it sounds, for a pre-med its a BLAST! The company I worked for provided emergency care to critical care facilities, nursing homes, and we also did long distance transports for the VA and other surrounding hospitals. I have done everything from heart attacks to multi trauma situations where a person broke their leg and also split open their head when they fell...and I was in charge of their entire treatment up until the time my partner got us to the ER.

- I have also heard of a summer full Paramedic training course in the Dallas area...Its similar in how the course work goes as to what I stated above, but I believe they start clinicals on day one or something like that and course work may have been a little more intense.

Employment is pretty easy for CNA's. You can find a job but it wont pay a ton (B/w 8-12 $/hr)

For those of you who say EMT, how on earth do you have time in your college schedule to actually ride out with the emergency teams?

- I know several students, including myself, that went to school full time and worked full time as either EMT-Basics/EMT-Intermediates or paramedics. If you find a station that works the 24 on 48 off routine, and your university allows you to schedual courses on M/W/F or T/Th, you can work your schedual around EMS work farily easy. Its rough having to work a 24 hour shift and then go to class the next day..but its an experience I wouldnt trade for anything...you definately learn time management and how to survive with very little sleep.

- As for payment of an EMT, for a private ambulance company, I was making roughly 8.50 an hour...which isnt great...But the way that it was setup was that per 24 hour shift, you get credited for the first 18 hours and if you recieve more than two calls in the night, you get credited for the full 24 hours. Anything over 40 hours a week we got time + 1/2. We generally got 3-4 calls in the night so overtime added up quickly. Especially on the weeks where I had three shifts. I was easily bringing in 1300 every two weeks. But..i never had time to spend it.

- Iv got nothing against CNA's , but if your looking for experience in medicine, where you have the oppertunity to have your own patients and have to make decisions/choices that affect people, then i would definately go with getting your EMT cert. But, one thing I would do before going off and getting the certification, find companies that hire basics and run basic crews. There are lots of places that just hire basics to help initially on scene, but other than that, basics are stuck driving (which some people like..not me). In my opinion, and like I said, I have nothing against CNAs, but CNA's generally do b*tch work that the charge nurse doesnt want to do. **** always flows down hill and since CNAs are at the low end of the totem pole and work in facilities with many people above them, they are going to get the crap jobs. EMTs however work in the trenches. The only person you'll generally work with will be your partner, and maybe a few fire-fighters here and there...But, your partner regardless of their level of training, cant just hand down the crappy part of the job...If your in the back with the patient, you do EVERYTHING and definately deal with vomit, urine, blood, getting spit at..etc. However, if you get your EMT cert and your limited to driving and maybe a few mins here and there on scene with the patient, I would say that you'll probably get more patient contact as a CNA.

 

[Disinence2]

I totally agree with Spartan above. Being a CNA makes you really appreciate the profession of some of those whom you will be working with. Plus, if you really can't handle the "dirty" work, do you really deserve to be a doctor? Think about it.

I thought about it,

Since when does someone's ability to clean up vomit correlate with their ability to diagnose and treat disease? A CNA is a vital part of the health care team, but not a mandatory pre-requisite to be a physician. The idea that a CNA is more "deserving" of being a doctor than any other applicants irritates me.

My advice, You'll probably have more fun as an EMT.

 

[mglavin]

f your looking for experience in medicine, where you have the opportunity to have your own patients and have to make decisions/choices that affect people, then i would definitely go with getting your EMT cert

this reason wins

 

[Algophiliac]

I know several students, including myself, that went to school full time and worked full time as either EMT-Basics/EMT-Intermediates or paramedics. If you find a station that works the 24 on 48 off routine, and your university allows you to schedual courses on M/W/F or T/Th, you can work your schedual around EMS work farily easy. Its rough having to work a 24 hour shift and then go to class the next day..but its an experience I wouldnt trade for anything...you definately learn time management and how to survive with very little sleep.

What exactly is required to become an EMT-Intermediate or a paramedic as opposed to just an EMT-Basic? How do the responsibilities and duties of each of those three differ?

Also, I'm just wondering...would an adcom also consider an EMT job more relevant and impressive than a CNA job? It's just that I lean more toward having a part-time job in college as opposed to a full-time job, and I don't know if a part-time job as an EMT is even possible?

 

[DrJonesss]

What exactly is required to become an EMT-Intermediate or a paramedic as opposed to just an EMT-Basic? How do the responsibilities and duties of each of those three differ?

Also, I'm just wondering...would an adcom also consider an EMT job more relevant and impressive than a CNA job? It's just that I lean more toward having a part-time job in college as opposed to a full-time job, and I don't know if a part-time job as an EMT is even possible?

Just get your Basic, you can do it in about 2 months over the summer for a full time course, and mine ran me about $850. EMT-I is more school and you'll be able to do some things that medics do, like start IV's and give more medications. Paramedic is over a year long and will run you upwards of 10 grand, plus you have to be an EMT-B before you become a medic. Don't go to medic school unless you want to be a medic. Believe me, you will have a lot of responsibility and get to see tons of cool things just having your EMT-B. Plus you'll be bringing people into the ER, and its a great firsthand look as to how effed up our healthcare system is. And sometimes the ER surgeons will let you watch a procedure.

Personally I think that you get a lot more respect as an EMT. When I tell people that I am one, I always get the "oh that's so cool!" type of response. Of course impressing your friends is always a terrible reason to do anything, but bottom line is, you have autonomy, when you answer the call for an unresponsive patient its just you and your partner who are responsible for her immediate care.

Can you give medications? Well, not really (oral glucose, charcoal, oxygen). Can you start IV's? No. It may seem like the most basic stuff, but really its just the ABC's (airway, breathing, and circulation) that keep people alive. As an EMT, you have patients. Patients who belong to you and who's life you hold in your hands.

Of course, I'm biased, but thats my $0.02.

edit: forgot to add some stuff about working part time. The best job for full time students is to get in with a local ambulance company, they will let you be very flexible, and you tend to have a decent amount of downtime at the station (sometimes you'll go an entire shift without a call depending on what kind of area youre in), so I usually get some MCAT reading and homework done. The only downside is that you usually need 6 mo. of 911 experience before a private company will hire you, so you'll need to volunteer. If you need the cash flow right after you get your cert, become an ER tech or a transporter.

 

[UC pre med]

Hey guys, on another little tangent here, I have a quick question regarding the whole EMT topic. Im a freshman just starting undergraduate, I'm taking 16 units right now. What do you guys think is the best time to get my EMT cert and even if i do, when will I have the time to actually ride out with the crews? Can you just do it in summer and then when school starts go back to school and alternate? Thanks in advance.

 

[jvesco22]

I thought about it,

Since when does someone's ability to clean up vomit correlate with their ability to diagnose and treat disease? A CNA is a vital part of the health care team, but not a mandatory pre-requisite to be a physician. The idea that a CNA is more "deserving" of being a doctor than any other applicants irritates me.

My advice, You'll probably have more fun as an EMT.

well said!👍

 

[ShinyDome19]

Hey guys, on another little tangent here, I have a quick question regarding the whole EMT topic. Im a freshman just starting undergraduate, I'm taking 16 units right now. What do you guys think is the best time to get my EMT cert and even if i do, when will I have the time to actually ride out with the crews? Can you just do it in summer and then when school starts go back to school and alternate? Thanks in advance.

It depends on the program you do. Like I said above, my program was a summer long program for EMT-Basic training. You do rotations during the second half of the summer while still taking course work. Its all crammed in to 2.5 months. Its tough, but doable. Other programs, during the school semester will go the entire semester length and you'll have to do your rotations (100 hours total) over the duration of the course, which isnt that bad if you can do a weekend here and there.

When I took the course, it was a 5 credit course lecture and a 4 credit clicinal course i believe...but the material is really easy. So, when you take it will probably depend on how much material you can handle outside of your pre-med course work. I had nothing but upper classman science courses left to take and couldnt handle too much more on top of that at the time, so I opted to take it in the summer. Worked well for me.

It probably depends on the school that is offering it and when the teachers are available as well. Check with junior colleges in your area and just ask about the program. It may also depend on how your local fire-dept. works. If they're fire-fighters are required to be paramedics, then they will likely run the course in parallel with the local fire-fighting academy so trainees can get their medic certs at the same time.

Like I said in my previous post, I worked full-time and went to school full time. Is it possible to be an EMT during the summer only?...maybe, but it would depend on the company that hired you...but I wouldnt expect to find one too easily, people do this for a career. If you can find one, I would suggest trying to find a volunteer fire-dept/EMS during the school year and pull a shift or two a month...just to keep all the treatment protocols fresh in your mind.

What exactly is required to become an EMT-Intermediate or a paramedic as opposed to just an EMT-Basic? How do the responsibilities and duties of each of those three differ?

Basics - So, the training you'll get as an EMT-Basic will leave you capable of handling probably 75-85% of the things your called to. This includes, patients who fall (you learn to use traction splints and techniques to immobilize the patient's joint), shortness of breath (Oxygen + breathing treatment), M.I. (If your medical director trains you in Nitro.), your average vehicle accidents - I was even trained in Extracation, allergic reactions (your trained to use an Epipen + nebulizer), overdoses (charcoal), and your even trained to use an NG tube (though I never got the chance to place one 🙁)...I have even transported psychotic patients between facilities...(thats some scary ****). On top of this, your trained to assist paramedics/intermeidates with just about everything they do. So, you can bag pts, poke IV bags while the medic gets an vein access..etc.

One thing our teacher told us is that "Paramedics save lives, basics save paramedics".

The problem with being a Basic, and working for a company that employs Intermediates and Paramedics, is that the company can charge more money for a paramedic providing those same treatments..so they will always make the basic drive if your partner is more highly trained. but, if your on a basic crew (you and your partner are basics), then you do all the work. So, try and find a place that runs a basic crew. You'll run the majority of the calls while paramedic crews will stay back at the station and can be called when the **** hits the fan.

Intermediates - I was partnered with an Intermediate for a while, but I only went to the basic level of training personally, so anyone who has done intermediate level, please correct me if I am wrong. So, from what I have seen, Intermediates are trained to handle maybe another 10% of the cases beyond that of the basic. This generally includes IVs/Blood draws, I believe they also learn to intubate and gain access to some drugs which are carried on the ambulance, which ones I dunno.

Paramedics - they take care of the rest. Which includes the remainder of drugs onboard.

Needless to say, as a basic you can handle the majority of the calls...and your trained to assist in the event that what is require is beyond your scope of training.

One thing you'll learn at any of the three training levels, especially if your a guy, is to not get grossed out when little old women hit on you...

Also, I'm just wondering...would an adcom also consider an EMT job more relevant and impressive than a CNA job? It's just that I lean more toward having a part-time job in college as opposed to a full-time job, and I don't know if a part-time job as an EMT is even possible?

From my experience, and I havent interviewed with any adcom that work in the ER, few know the difference between what a basic can do and a paramedic. When I went to my interviews, I repeated several times to my interviewers that I formerly worked as an EMT-Basic, and their responses always showed some ignorance to the "Basic" part. They always assumed that I was equivalent to a paramedic...So, in regard to your statement about EMT being more relevant than CNA jobs, yes. But, regardless of that, I would still think that with the idea of you being a EMT-Basic and having your OWN patients to be responsible for, they should look at it as being a much greater experience. Also, I think when it comes down to it at an interview, its how you present yourself and your experiences. Since you have such great responsibility in this role, when ever your interviewers bring up questions like "Have you ever been in a situation where you had to make a difficult decision? how did you handled it...", "How well do you handle stressful situations, whats an example", "How much clinical experience do you have", "Would you treat a patient with HIV or AIDS"... it is easy to come up with several honest examples...I doubt too many CNA positions will give you this type of experience.

As far as I know, no, you wont find too many part-time positions working on an amublance crew. Remember, this is a path some people make a career out of and if you work in a "station" setting, you'll likely be working 12 - 24 hour shifts. However, once you have your cert, you may find a part-time position at a local emergency room/critical care facility or nursing home. But, you wont have your own patients, which is what I think is the biggest advantage of getting your EMT cert..

Also, keep in mind, that if you want to do the EMT thing, your required to also maintain your EMT certification and ACLS certification. This means you have to take part in X-amount of hours of continuing medical education and yearly ACLS recertification. Its not a whole lot of hours as I recall, but if your working something like I was, 48-72 hours a week on top of a full-time schedual at school, a few more hours tacked on can be a pretty big burden.

 

[DocM13]

You learn SO much being a CNA about elderly disease which is EXTREMELY valuable since the baby boomer population is rising in the country. Therefore, I think being a CNA is totally a better choice for someone thinking about going into primary care.

Being a CNA takes a lot of heart. Not everyone can do it. There is more to becoming a doctor than just diagnosing disease and being "book smart." You have to learn how to interact with patients, and being a CNA helps you to do that.

I thought about it,

Since when does someone's ability to clean up vomit correlate with their ability to diagnose and treat disease? A CNA is a vital part of the health care team, but not a mandatory pre-requisite to be a physician. The idea that a CNA is more "deserving" of being a doctor than any other applicants irritates me.

My advice, You'll probably have more fun as an EMT.