gen. anesthesiologist sitting for peds anesthesia exam although not meeting grandfathering criteria

[Guy Caballero]

Everyone knows a complete buffoon who somehow completed residency and became board certified, despite their patient care being substandard and being lazy jerks. When it comes time for their recertification, someone has to attest that they are competent and in good standing in order for them to be eligible for recertification. Should we do a better job of policing that as well? If we have a colleague that we know to be an idiot that gets notification that he passed the oral exam and is now board certified, should we contact the ABA and urge them to have another look at this candidate?

Where do you draw the line? You have to ask yourself if the ABA is better equipped than you to make those decisions. It is a slippery slope. Today, you are notifying the ABA about a perceived injustice. Maybe next year, your colleague is notifying your state medical board about your patient who had the bad outcome. They will feel just as justified as you feel right now.

Your worth is based on your work and your reputation. It is not based on the number of certifications the ABA decides to award.

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[nap$ter]

I didn't realize that an anesthesiologist and a pediatric anesthesiologist are not colleagues anymore!
I mean the guys who did a long torturous year fellowship and learned the secrets and intricacies of anesthetizing kids would not mind me calling them colleagues sometimes would they?

hyperbole.

as i said, we are colleagues in general anesthesia (which includes general pediatric anesthesia), but not in the subspecialty of pediatric anesthesia. it's semantics to avoid the question posed to you.

bottom line - it's never ok to lie about your credentials to attain certification. apparently some folks on here have a certain moral flexibility.

i don't like the current climate in anesthesia rife with turf hungry crna's and the aba with all of their new subspecialty fellowships and moca bs. i would love to just be a great clinician and take great care of complicated kids right out of residency.

but that ain't the way it is. realistically i had to do a fellowship to get where i am now. and i'll be damned if i'll let someone take a dishonest shortcut to claim equivalence without a challenge.

 

[nap$ter]

i a

Everyone knows a complete buffoon who somehow completed residency and became board certified, despite their patient care being substandard and being lazy jerks. When it comes time for their recertification, someone has to attest that they are competent and in good standing in order for them to be eligible for recertification. Should we do a better job of policing that as well? If we have a colleague that we know to be an idiot that gets notification that he passed the oral exam and is now board certified, should we contact the ABA and urge them to have another look at this candidate?

Where do you draw the line? You have to ask yourself if the ABA is better equipped than you to make those decisions. It is a slippery slope. Today, you are notifying the ABA about a perceived injustice. Maybe next year, your colleague is notifying your state medical board about your patient who had the bad outcome. They will feel just as justified as you feel right now.

Your worth is based on your work and your reputation. It is not based on the number of certifications the ABA decides to award.

i agree that any number of certifications will not change the worth of a *****.

everything else i disagree with.

 

[Guy Caballero]

i agree that any number of certifications will not change the worth of a *****.

It appears that your argument is the opposite. You state that your fear is that someone less deserving will be judged more worthy than you because of a certification. Maybe I am misinterpreting you.

 

[nap$ter]

It appears that your argument is the opposite. You state that your fear is that someone less deserving will be judged more worthy than you because of a certification. Maybe I am misinterpreting you.

that was not my statement.

i agree that certificates won't change the worth of a known buffoon to a group.

but (unfortunately) peds fellowships/certificates are becoming increasingly valuable to groups and hospitals. in the hands of a clinically competent young inexperienced anesthesiologist the certification is very valuable and will become increasingly so. i worked hard for mine and don't want to have to compete with those that lie to get theirs.

 

[deleted126335]

Pediatric Certification matters. Less today. More tomorrow. The attainment of certification whether through fellowship plus exam or grandfathering plus exam are and will be virtually interchangeable for the foreseeable future, with the exception of those pursuing an academic career or at the highest quality private practice jobs at children's hospitals.

 

[BuzzPhreed]

I know a lot of you are still in training or fresh out of training. Please take my advice here. I do know a thing or two.

It is not now nor will it ever be your personal job to police your colleagues. I know a surgeon who sued a hospital claiming they tried to prevent him from practicing his profession after they yanked his privileges. Someone blew the whistle on him for being a Hodad but they couldn't prove it in court when he sued. Long story short they settled for an undisclosed amount and he got to continue to practice there. He sucks. But that's for patients with bad outcomes to report and sue for malpractice when it occurs.

Your job in life is to minimize your personal exposure to risk in whatever form that risk takes. Trust me on that one. Blowing the whistle on a colleague may seem to be morally the right thing to do but just be prepared to get ****ed in the rearend if it backfires. Ask yourself if it's really worth the risk before you pull the trigger.

 

[BuzzPhreed]

Let me slightly amend that statement about policing your colleagues.

The only time it is your job to police your colleagues is if they pose an immediate danger to themselves or their patients. For example they are clearly intoxicated, diverting narcotics, etc.

 

[nap$ter]

Let me slightly amend that statement about policing your colleagues.

The only time it is your job to police your colleagues is if they pose an immediate danger to themselves or their patients. For example they are clearly intoxicated, diverting narcotics, etc.

what the heck is a Hodad?

what about if your co-worker misrepresents his qualifications to a patient? ie "hi i'm dr smith your crna?" no clear and present danger there, ya gonna live with that?

the ostrich strategy may work if you're satisfied being a bystander. our specialty will continue to erode with that fearful mentality. truth is protection against liability, and personally i wouldn't want to work with dishonest folk.

 

[imfrankie]

Let me slightly amend that statement about policing your colleagues.

The only time it is your job to police your colleagues is if they pose an immediate danger to themselves or their patients. For example they are clearly intoxicated, diverting narcotics, etc.

Fortunately there are others willing to stand up for what is right. What a world it would be without them.

 

[BuzzPhreed]

what the heck is a Hodad?

Hands of death and destruction.

what about if your co-worker misrepresents his qualifications to a patient? ie "hi i'm dr smith your crna?" no clear and present danger there, ya gonna live with that?

First off I'm glad you didn't say colleague because I don't consider CRNAs my colleauges. And there are laws against what you are proposing. So that person would be written up for misrepresenting their qualifications to a patient and would probably be reprimanded and likely lose their job if it was repeated.

the ostrich strategy may work if you're satisfied being a bystander. our specialty will continue to erode with that fearful mentality. truth is protection against liability, and personally i wouldn't want to work with dishonest folk.

I'm talking about personal and financial risk to you - the whistleblower - if this person chooses to sue you in court for interfering with their ability to practice a specialty or gain certification that they may deserve which may result in substantial loss of income. Are you sure you have all the facts? Is this person incapable of providing anesthesia safely to children? Why do you ultimately care? Because you feel cheated?

The world is an imperfect and certainly not a straightforward place if you haven't figured that out already. Your best bet is to vote with your feet. State your concerns to the chairman or chief of anesthesia and then go find another job. If you stick your neck out don't be surprised if you're the one who gets beheaded.

 

[nap$ter]

Hands of death and destruction.

good one.



First off I'm glad you didn't say colleague because I don't consider CRNAs my colleauges. And there are laws against what you are proposing. So that person would be written up for misrepresenting their qualifications to a patient and would probably be reprimanded and likely lose their job if it was repeated.



I'm talking about personal and financial risk to you - the whistleblower - if this person chooses to sue you in court for interfering with their ability to practice a specialty or gain certification that they may deserve which may result in substantial loss of income. Are you sure you have all the facts? Is this person incapable of providing anesthesia safely to children? Why do you ultimately care? Because you feel cheated?

The world is an imperfect and certainly not a straightforward place if you haven't figured that out already. Your best bet is to vote with your feet. State your concerns to the chairman or chief of anesthesia and then go find another job. If you stick your neck out don't be surprised if you're the one who gets beheaded.

i appreciate your concern. but we're again not talking about clinical competence. we're talking about lying about clinical experience to attain a certification.

the crna example applies here. would you like it if the OP's colleague introduced himself to you as a pediatric anesthesiologist and gave an anesthetic to your complicated premature neonate? even though he's just done adults and healthy tonsils since residency? i'm not saying he would, but he COULD.

i'm also not advocating lying to the ABA. voicing your concerns shouldn't carry any liability. if they investigate and the case logs are cool then so be it, no foul. but if as the OP suggests they're not then the department gets cleansed and the long term outcome is good.

the right answer is rarely the easy one.

 

[Planktonmd]

It takes young people years to understand that life is rarely either black or white.. it's almost always a shade of gray.

 

[deleted126335]

It takes young people years to understand that life is rarely either black or white.. it's almost always a shade of gray.

I don't see much grey here. Assuming the OP is factually correct, a colleague is lying on his attestation to the major professional organization certifying his, yours, and my education, credentials and knowledge base. The OP has followed all the stated rules. His colleague is cheating and in the process devaluing the year of additional training that the OP went through. If I were in the OP's shoes, I also would be doing the calculation about dropping a dime. I probably wouldn't do it due to the concern that I would suffer the consequences if discovered-making enemies, being fired, opening myself up to a civil suit.

 

[nap$ter]

I don't see much grey here. Assuming the OP is factually correct, a colleague is lying on his attestation to the major professional organization certifying his, yours, and my education, credentials and knowledge base. The OP has followed all the stated rules. His colleague is cheating and in the process devaluing the year of additional training that the OP went through. If I were in the OP's shoes, I also would be doing the calculation about dropping a dime. I probably wouldn't do it due to the concern that I would suffer the consequences if discovered-making enemies, being fired, opening myself up to a civil suit.

why don't we send the url of this thread to the ABA? this is an anonymous public forum. i doubt they would do anything, but maybe it would spur them to check some case logs...

 

[deleted126335]

why don't we send the url of this thread to the ABA? this is an anonymous public forum. i doubt they would do anything, but maybe it would spur them to check some case logs...

Maybe they would be so kind as to go on record on their website or in a mailing about consequences for those who lie on their attestation for their eligibility to sit for this exam? Maybe threaten to revoke primary certification for those who do falsify, excuse me, honestly misstate their experience and qualifications? Maybe guarantee confidentiality for those who drop a dime... or is that hoping too much?

Are you listening ABA?

 

[BuzzPhreed]

I don't see much grey here. Assuming the OP is factually correct, a colleague is lying on his attestation to the major professional organization certifying his, yours, and my education, credentials and knowledge base. The OP has followed all the stated rules. His colleague is cheating and in the process devaluing the year of additional training that the OP went through. If I were in the OP's shoes, I also would be doing the calculation about dropping a dime. I probably wouldn't do it due to the concern that I would suffer the consequences if discovered-making enemies, being fired, opening myself up to a civil suit.

You're assuming you have all the facts.

 

[Planktonmd]

I don't see much grey here. Assuming the OP is factually correct, a colleague is lying on his attestation to the major professional organization certifying his, yours, and my education, credentials and knowledge base. The OP has followed all the stated rules. His colleague is cheating and in the process devaluing the year of additional training that the OP went through. If I were in the OP's shoes, I also would be doing the calculation about dropping a dime. I probably wouldn't do it due to the concern that I would suffer the consequences if discovered-making enemies, being fired, opening myself up to a civil suit.

For some reason you remind me of these people who drive in the left lane and insist on going EXACTLY the speed limit... just because they feel it is their duty to make everyone else obey the rules!