General dentists doing implants?

[ProHeartBreaker]

What does a general dentist have go through for certification to do comestic dentistry (e.g., porcelain veneer, lumineer)? How about performing dental implants and braces?

I have seen/heard some general dentists advertise that they can do these procedures. Can someone clarify these issues?

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[ddsplease]

I'm pretty sure a general dentist can do any of these procedures without any additional certification. Many do not because they didn't receive enough training in dental school to feel comfortable performing them. With continuing ed classes however, a dentist may elect to do any or all of these things. It's just a matter of how comfortable a dentist is doing these procedures.

 

[Montserrat]

If you've shadowed a general dentist, watch them eat up the easier cases and refer out those tougher cases that they won't touch. For example, if the roots are absurdly long and are close to the nerves, the GP I am shadowing will refer them out to an oral surgeon. Even with 20+ years of experience, he can perform flap surgery, but knows what he is comfortable extracting and won't push that limit.

 

[Montserrat]

And then I realized that I completely didn't answer the question ... woops.

I think dentists are only limited to treat what they feel comfortable doing. From what my family have told me, I don't think there are any legal limits stopping a dentist from performing more complicated procedures in restoration, extraction, or cosmetic. However, if poo hits the fan, then not having a extra training in whatever complicated procedure you performed might result in a fairly hefty settlement, as well as damage your reputation as a clinician.

Also, I went to a cleaning last week and on one of the wall mounted diagram charts in the operatory room, veneers and implants are right up there with crown and bridges as "routine procedures. "

 

[Regmata]

You must be able to perform the procedure to the standard of care...pretty ambiguous. A CE course would suffice, if you don't get to do implants while in dental school.

 

[moralbrain]

Yes, general practitional CAN perform implant.
You do not need specific certificate for performing implant.

 

[Fonz]

And then I realized that I completely didn't answer the question ... woops.

I think dentists are only limited to treat what they feel comfortable doing. From what my family have told me, I don't think there are any legal limits stopping a dentist from performing more complicated procedures in restoration, extraction, or cosmetic. However, if poo hits the fan, then not having a extra training in whatever complicated procedure you performed might result in a fairly hefty settlement, as well as damage your reputation as a clinician.

Also, I went to a cleaning last week and on one of the wall mounted diagram charts in the operatory room, veneers and implants are right up there with crown and bridges as "routine procedures. "

you're right

 

[PDizzle]

I'm pretty sure a general dentist can do any of these procedures without any additional certification. Many do not because they didn't receive enough training in dental school to feel comfortable performing them. With continuing ed classes however, a dentist may elect to do any or all of these things. It's just a matter of how comfortable a dentist is doing these procedures.

nailed it on the head!

Is it worth losing your license if you can't perform care to acceptable standards?.....no.

 

[lemoncurry]

the GP i shadowed did tons of root canals, plus cosmetic and implants. I think he enjoys the challenge, the change of pace, and definitely the extra money it brings in.

 

[DMDreaming]

Yes, general practitional CAN perform implant.
You do not need specific certificate for performing implant.

You are correct but most malpractice carriers require general dentists to show proof of a certain number of continuing education hours completed within a certain period of time to cover implant cases. For instance, the carrier for the dentist I work required her to complete 64 hours within 24 months to be covered.

 

[toofshucker]

You have to be able to perform up to the "standard of care." If you can do as good of a job as a specialist, then go for it. If you can't perform up to the standard of care, then don't. Only you will know what you feel comfortable with, and with what procedures you are willing to risk your reputation/license/practice over. It is up to you.

That being said, I work for a general dentists that has placed thousands of implants and does (in my opinion) a much better job than a lot of specialists. I have never seen any doctor approach their cases with as much care/skill as him.

 

[justvisiting]

In regard to doing procedures, I believe they can do it as long as they feel comfortable and in some cases have CE certificates, but they typically will only do small procedures within their comfort zones, like retainers, a few brackets or maryland bridges. The GPs also have to watch out for their referral networks, as specialists dont want to refer to a GP who does their own procedures - similar to why specialists dont do large amounts of GP work.

 

[toofshucker]

similar to why specialists dont do large amounts of GP work.

Specialists don't because they can't and even if they could, they would lose money on those procedures.

 

[moralbrain]

You are correct but most malpractice carriers require general dentists to show proof of a certain number of continuing education hours completed within a certain period of time to cover implant cases. For instance, the carrier for the dentist I work required her to complete 64 hours within 24 months to be covered.

thanks for informing

 

[xdianaax]

Do you think a specialist can do general dentistry stuff or no? I mean, if they had the supplies...

 

[Regmata]

Specialists only do what they specialize in.

 

[Decan]

Do you think a specialist can do general dentistry stuff or no? I mean, if they had the supplies...

No...I was shadowing a dentist and he told me a story about a prosthodontist who wanted to do some endodontist stuff and he couldnt get the OK.

In response to the original question, my dentist took a 12 month course (every saturday) on impants that cost him 28K...he made it all back within a couple of months.

 

[Fonz]

Do you think a specialist can do general dentistry stuff or no? I mean, if they had the supplies...

Well technically they are licensed to but I think the longer they are from when they learned it the more unlikely it is that they retained the skills. From what I've seen in the field dentistry its all about practice and experience.

 

[TheWiredNerv]

I agree. the dentists I talk to say you learn diddly from D school and all your knowledge comes from residency and getting your hands dirty.

 

[ProHeartBreaker]

Interesting to know.....because I thought the most difficult procedure that dental students do in Oral Surgery is extraction (i.e.,wisdom teeth). I went to a dental school and that's what the students informed me.

 

[Fonz]

Interesting to know.....because I thought the most difficult procedure that dental students do in Oral Surgery is extraction (i.e.,wisdom teeth). I went to a dental school and that's what the students informed me.

That may be true because I don't know any dental school that requires stuents to do implants. They teach students about it a little but they don't get any hands on experience.

 

[hotrod0917]

Do you think a specialist can do general dentistry stuff or no? I mean, if they had the supplies...

This also depends on the state you're practicing in. In some states, you are allowed to do GP as a specialist. However, many of the organizations ie, aaoms or aao does not frequently allow their members to do GP, due to many legal issues.

 

[burgler09]

In response to the general dentist thing, a general dentist is allowed to do braces, preform root canals and whatever else he feels comfortable doing, but as soon as you specialize that is all you can do and you are not even allowed to do general practice anymore. Source: my dentist

 

[ProHeartBreaker]

Good information guys. I think I'm going to learn as much as I can while in dental school so that I don't have to spend another 2-3 years in specialty. In addition, competing to climb to the top of the ladder in dental school is a horrifying thought for me.

 

[harjay]

Personally I'd prefer the variety of procedures that a GP gets to do over the limited scope that a specialist does. GPs also get to choose whether or not they can or want to treat special cases (like a tricky extraction for example).
on the predents.com home page I listed GP is for me

 

[NADsZ]

In response to the general dentist thing, a general dentist is allowed to do braces, preform root canals and whatever else he feels comfortable doing, but as soon as you specialize that is all you can do and you are not even allowed to do general practice anymore. Source: my dentist

You can't go back? Ever? After all these posts I'm starting to wonder if specializing is even worth it......! Just be a GP that does everything

 

[toofshucker]

You can't go back? Ever? After all these posts I'm starting to wonder if specializing is even worth it......! Just be a GP that does everything

You can only specialize or be a GP. If you specialized, you make double what a GP makes. That is why it is worth it. The average gp makes 170k and the average specialist makes 300k.

 

[Mcglock]

You can only specialize or be a GP. If you specialized, you make double what a GP makes. That is why it is worth it. The average gp makes 170k and the average specialist makes 300k.

But a GP doing specialist procedures such as implants can make 330k easy.

To the OP, I think in Colorado you need about 64 CE credits to get certified to do implants.

At the ASDOH interview they said students get to place 2 or 3 implants.

 

[toofshucker]

But a GP doing specialist procedures such as implants can make 330k easy.

To the OP, I think in Colorado you need about 64 CE credits to get certified to do implants.

At the ASDOH interview they said students get to place 2 or 3 implants.

First, it is not that easy. The average GP needs to produce close to 1 million a year to take home 330k. Most GP's don't produce 1 million a year. The ADA puts the average GP practice producing around 600k a year.

Second, it costs about 30 grand to get ready to do implants. Most implant courses will run you 8-10 grand. You will want to do a couple of those before you place your patients health and your license on the line. Next, it is around 10 grand to get your office set up to do implants. Finally, your overhead is fairly high to do implants (meaning, you probably put more money in your pocket doing 4 crowns in two hours than doing one implant in 4 hours), and that can go higher if you screw up along the way (ie, need a custom abutment; which happens a lot).

That being said, if you are competent in placing implants, you can make a lot of money. BUT, it is a lot harder to make 330k a year as a GP than it is as a specialist.

 

[sl2obel2ts]

I just started shadowing a dentist last friday. I only have 7 hours . anyway, she invited me to watch doing some implants. It was called "smile design". Took about 4 hours, and she whispered in my ear

"I just made 15k"

har.har.

 

[Regmata]

I just started shadowing a dentist last friday. I only have 7 hours . anyway, she invited me to watch doing some implants. It was called "smile design". Took about 4 hours, and she whispered in my ear

"I just made 15k"

har.har.

Thats professional

 

[HenryH]

I just started shadowing a dentist last friday. I only have 7 hours . anyway, she invited me to watch doing some implants. It was called "smile design". Took about 4 hours, and she whispered in my ear

"I just made 15k"

har.har.

Dental school, here I come.

 

[ProHeartBreaker]

What about anesthetics? Do general dentists hire someone else to do the job or they do it by themselves? I mean, do they use anything else besides lidocaine to ease the pain?

 

[Regmata]

Xylocaine, novocaine, topicals, nitrous...various certifications can be obtained to use more intense sedatives

 

[toofshucker]

What about anesthetics? Do general dentists hire someone else to do the job or they do it by themselves? I mean, do they use anything else besides lidocaine to ease the pain?

You can take additional training to do anesthesia. Or you can hire a dental anesthesiologist. Or you can refer to an oral surgeon. Just remember, the more procedures you do, the more supplies you must buy, the higher your overhead. Now, some overhead is good, just be smart about it. Specialists make so much money in large part because their overhead is a lot lower than GP's.

 

[Mcglock]

First, it is not that easy. The average GP needs to produce close to 1 million a year to take home 330k. Most GP's don't produce 1 million a year. The ADA puts the average GP practice producing around 600k a year.

Second, it costs about 30 grand to get ready to do implants. Most implant courses will run you 8-10 grand. You will want to do a couple of those before you place your patients health and your license on the line. Next, it is around 10 grand to get your office set up to do implants. Finally, your overhead is fairly high to do implants (meaning, you probably put more money in your pocket doing 4 crowns in two hours than doing one implant in 4 hours), and that can go higher if you screw up along the way (ie, need a custom abutment; which happens a lot).

That being said, if you are competent in placing implants, you can make a lot of money. BUT, it is a lot harder to make 330k a year as a GP than it is as a specialist.

I've got two relatives who are GP's and make 30k a month (so 360k/year) just doing basic dentistry, no implants, and in a rural setting no less. Who wants to be an "average" dentist? Of course when you start off placing implants as a GP you'll probably take it slow, but once you become competent at it and work through the learning curve the potential to make specialist-sized income is definitely there, and you don't have to pigeon-hole yourself into one area. Also, if it takes you 4 hours to place one implant then you're doing something wrong.

 

[Fonz]

I've got two relatives who are GP's and make 30k a month (so 360k/year) just doing basic dentistry, no implants, and in a rural setting no less. Who wants to be an "average" dentist? Of course when you start off placing implants as a GP you'll probably take it slow, but once you become competent at it and work through the learning curve the potential to make specialist-sized income is definitely there, and you don't have to pigeon-hole yourself into one area. Also, if it takes you 4 hours to place one implant then you're doing something wrong.

hmm I guess thats 'net' right. I wonder how much my boss dentist nets. The front office lady mentioned grossing 60-70k a month but there's tons of overhead.

 

[toofshucker]

I've got two relatives who are GP's and make 30k a month (so 360k/year) just doing basic dentistry, no implants, and in a rural setting no less. Who wants to be an "average" dentist? Of course when you start off placing implants as a GP you'll probably take it slow, but once you become competent at it and work through the learning curve the potential to make specialist-sized income is definitely there, and you don't have to pigeon-hole yourself into one area. Also, if it takes you 4 hours to place one implant then you're doing something wrong.

Thats why. If you are anywhere near competition, your net goes way WAY down.

I don't doubt you. I work for a doctor that produced close to two million last year. So, I know it can be done. BUT, my point is, it is a lot harder to make 300k a year as a gp than as a specialist. According to the ADA, for every dentist making 300k, there are 5 making 100k.

 

[Regmata]

Thats why. If you are anywhere near competition, your net goes way WAY down.

I don't doubt you. I work for a doctor that produced close to two million last year. So, I know it can be done. BUT, my point is, it is a lot harder to make 300k a year as a gp than as a specialist. According to the ADA, for every dentist making 300k, there are 5 making 100k.

Not necessarily and figures from the ADA (btw your math is off) include retiring dentists who barely work and a bunch of others who don't work a full work week. In my opinion, the easiest way to make real money comes from high patient volume, speed and getting your patients in and out as fast as possible with as little cost to you as possible. Now, are you willing sacrifice the quality of care you offer for money?

 

[toofshucker]

Not necessarily and figures from the ADA (btw your math is off) include retiring dentists who barely work and a bunch of others who don't work a full work week. In my opinion, the easiest way to make real money comes from high patient volume, speed and getting your patients in and out as fast as possible with as little cost to you as possible. Now, are you willing sacrifice the quality of care you offer for money?

How is my math off? The ADA says the average gp makes 170k. So, on doc makes 300k, 5 make 100k:
300+100+100+100+100+100=800k. Now take 800k and divide by 6...ha ha okay, let me restate, for every gp making 300k there are FOUR (not five) making 100k.

In my opinion, the easiest way to make a lot of money is to set up an office that is FFS. You do half the work, take home the same pay. The easiest way to do that is to go rural, where there is no competition. Don't underestimate how much insurance companies rip you off and screw the patient by limiting procedures they can get done.