Getting in as a D.O. and only taken COMLEX

[WnderWmn10]

I am a third year interested in Neurology and I am a D.O. Scored 545 on the Comlex 1...didn't take the USMLE. I am otherwise a pretty average applicant (middle of my class, TA and school involvement, no research yet)I plan on mainly apply to midwest schools. What sort of scores do you think schools are looking for. Was I foolish to not take USMLE Step 1?

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[HPsiEPsi]

Any budding neurologists out there wish to respond? I am in a similar situation.

Is it possible to complete a neurology residency as a subspecialty of internal medicine?

Thanks.

 

[abcabc1]

People get in with COMLEX only. I'm not familiar with the scale. Where is 545 with regards to the mean (in terms of standard deviations).

Taking the USMLE would have helped but, AFAIK, there aren't too many programs that absolutely require COMPLEX for Osteopathic applicants. Many DO applicants do extremely well in the Neuro match, though one would imagine they had solid records in school.

Neuro is its own Residency and can not be completed as an IM Fellowship. If you do an IM Residency, you'll be waived out of the PGY-1 year in Preliminary or Transitional Medicine.

 

[WnderWmn10]

Thanks for your responce. The mean for Comlex is 500 with a standard deviation of 79. So not an awesome score, but could have been worse I guess. I am not sure what the equivalent USMLE score would be.

 

[abcabc1]

Your score is fairly good; roughly .57 SD above the mean. The USMLE Step 1 score fluctuates, but you can use 218 +/- 24 as a rough guide. I'd call it the equivalent of
228-233 depending on the exact mean and SD. With 230 as a benchmark, you'll get a lot of good Neurology interviews.

 

[bustbones26]

I am a third year interested in Neurology and I am a D.O. Scored 545 on the Comlex 1...didn't take the USMLE. I am otherwise a pretty average applicant (middle of my class, TA and school involvement, no research yet)I plan on mainly apply to midwest schools. What sort of scores do you think schools are looking for. Was I foolish to not take USMLE Step 1?

At my program, attendings come up to me every single year whenever applications are coming through the system and ask, "Hey, what's a good score on COMLEX?". So they don't even know. I am sure somewhere there is a good PD that does know how to compare. I usually tell my attending that if the applicant scored above 600, that is a high score. If they scored in the 700s, then they are exceptional and probably a damn genius. If they scored high 400s to 500s, then that is what is expected.

Unless you want to go to Hopkins, a DO hating institution, or some big powerhouse place, don't worry about taking USMLE.

 

[HarveyCushing]

Unless you want to go to Hopkins, a DO hating institution, or some big powerhouse place, don't worry about taking USMLE.

Actually a recent grad from KCUMB matched at Hopkins neurology.

 

[bustbones26]

Actually a recent grad from KCUMB matched at Hopkins neurology.

Good for him. In regards to what the OP wants to know, did he take the USMLE?

I thinked you missed the point I was trying to make. I never doubted that a DO could get into a big institution, but I they probably did take the USMLE to do so. The point I was trying to make was that unless you want to go to one of these places, don't stress over taking the USMLE.

As I have said before, if English is your first language and you have a pulse, and you do not want to go to a big well known instutition like Partners, UCSF, Hopkins, etc., and you want to do neurology, then you will. Simple as that.

But of course, if you do want to go to one of those places, then a little stress about your scores, etc. etc. probably is worth the time.

 

[cliff]

I took both. I do not know of any DO Neurology Residents in California that did not take USMLE. In fact, I know many residents that took USMLE I +/- II +/- III. I only took USMLE I.

Taking the USMLE makes you more competitive.
Not taking the USMLE makes you less competitive.

The whole COMLEX > 500 being sorta equal to a USMLE >200 is very soft.
Having now sat on resident selection committees for multiple years, I can say candidate without USMLE were at a very big disadvantage.

This may be geographical and less of an issue in places with a higher concentration of osteopathic neurologists.

Take USMLE I. Don't make a big deal of it. You just need a number.


Good luck.

cliff

 

[bustbones26]

I took both. I do not know of any DO Neurology Residents in California that did not take USMLE. In fact, I know many residents that took USMLE I +/- II +/- III. I only took USMLE I.

Taking the USMLE makes you more competitive.
Not taking the USMLE makes you less competitive.

The whole COMLEX > 500 being sorta equal to a USMLE >200 is very soft.
Having now sat on resident selection committees for multiple years, I can say candidate without USMLE were at a very big disadvantage.

This may be geographical and less of an issue in places with a higher concentration of osteopathic neurologists.

Take USMLE I. Don't make a big deal of it. You just need a number.


Good luck.

cliff

Cliff, you make an excellent point. I went to an osteopathic school on the eastern side of the county and DO's were " a dime a dozen" in most communities. Not many hospitals on the eastern side of the county did not have any difficulty accepting DO applicants. I came to a residency on the western side of the country myself and I saw a world of difference. For example, most of my attendings liken OMT to chiropractic work and think that I am going to cause vertebral artery shears on every patient I see. They even claim that there is literature out there on OMT causing such disasters (but oddly can't quote the source when asked). They think it is the most dangerous thing to ever do on a patient. Another reason why they just don't know what a good COMLEX score is and ask me year after year when applications come rolling in and we all sit down to choose applicants.

That is not to say that there are no DOs on the western side of the country, there certainly is. But I certainly appreciated a different treatment and know that most institutions on the west coast cringe just a little when they see a DO application. I know of one particular institution close to where I am at that pretty much will throw your application in the trash, even if you took the USMLE and even if you are a solid applicant. (if you want to know, just PM me)

So, yes, I would agree with Cliff, if you apply to a program in california, do whatever you can to beef up your application. I would also add, that if you apply to any program on the western front: Washington, Oregon, California, do the same and be ready for the DO ignorance.

 

[HarveyCushing]

Good for him. In regards to what the OP wants to know, did he take the USMLE?

Bust, since I didn't know the answer when I first responded to the thread, I contacted her and found out that she had taken the USMLE. I was responding more to your comment that Hopkins was a "DO hating institution".

I wonder how often DO's match at "top" places like Partners, UPenn, Hopkins, UCSF....etc. I know that Cleveland Clinic's program is quite accepting of DO's. What about some of the other programs? I have looked at their resident profiles and haven't seen many DO's go through their programs.

 

[bustbones26]

Bust, since I didn't know the answer when I first responded to the thread, I contacted her and found out that she had taken the USMLE. I was responding more to your comment that Hopkins was a "DO hating institution".

I wonder how often DO's match at "top" places like Partners, UPenn, Hopkins, UCSF....etc. I know that Cleveland Clinic's program is quite accepting of DO's. What about some of the other programs? I have looked at their resident profiles and haven't seen many DO's go through their programs.

Cleveland Clinic takes a number of DOs. Although Ohio is considered by most a mid-western state, Cleveland is really more eastern and have the influence of LECOM (not far away) to provide applicants. As well, OUCOM I am sure provides plenty of rotators and applicants. I would also caution those that "think they are at the Cleveland Clinic". For example, the Cleveland clinic owns many hospitals, for example Brown Memorial, barely a 90 bed hospital near the PA/OH border is owned by Cleveland Clinic. If I am correct, SouthPoint is owned by Cleveland Clinic and has osteopathic residency programs. There are some residents in these programs that will tell you they are at the Cleveland Clinic.

Despite Touro and pomona, breaking through at big institutions in CA is not easy, but certainly not impossible. I do not know for sure, but I would bet with PCOM being in philly, there are applicants to to UPENN. The dean of my osteopathic college in fact was a PM&R grad of UPENN, so it is possible. Hopkins, obviously possible as you have pointed out. The others, I don't know. Others feel free to reply