GPA enhancement programs: SMPs, postbacs et al...June 2009 List

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Well it won't be considered late but the earlier the better especially considering you have lower GPA than the average applicant to these programs. It's like the medical school application cycle. People emphasize submitting early if you have low stats as opposed to submitting midway into the cycle with slightly higher stats, you can always update them throughout anyway.

Also SMPs won't reject you once they initially look at your application. If they feel you don't have what it takes, they'll put you on the waiting list or on hold indefinitely which they will go back and review if you update them with scores/new grades.

Alright, the thing is though, is that without the fall semester, I'm actually below the cutoff of most of the programs..I'd be around 2.9 or so...after the fall semester plus January-term 2week-long intense class, I will be at 3.1 or better (if all goes according to plan).

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but in order to apply the earliest, I should be taking the GRE, correct? I ask this because I'm looking at MCAT test dates, and there are no dates in October, November, or December, and then finally late January, meaning my scores would be coming in very late...like March or later right? That would leave my application late in the spring and would hurt me.

On the other hand, the GRE has test dates all throughout the fall, meaning I could get my scores by the time I am ready to start applying (if I chose to wait till early January for my fall classes to have their grades in)..as well as being easier to prepare for (the GRE versus the MCAT that is..)

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.is ~January-February still competitive in the cycle, or do many consider that "late"? i foresee me submitting applications around the middle of January ideally, ~jan 15th, since my school also has a "january term"

a lot of smp apps don't open until december or january, so you would be right in the middle of a bunch of them... just make sure everything, scores, letters, personal statements, are all ready for one quick submission
 
Depending on the program and your whole application, they can be somewhat flexible on the GPA. For instance with your stats, if you have a very high GRE, it might prompt them to take a closer look at other aspects of your application in "offsetting" (not really how it is, but you it's a simple way to try and understand the applicatin process) your lower GPA. Some programs are more flexible in others in this regard so it all depends thus to be "safe", having a 3.0+ GPA is generally what is recommended on SDN.

As said before, the MCAT is optimal but for the earliest possible application submission with the time you're allowing to prepare, the GRE would be far more time efficient for you to take than the MCAT.

As Klmnop said, most SMPs don't open till December of January and are rolling afterwards thus you would be submitting your application in the middle of the pack. I can't emphasize enough of having a complete application like he mentioned as well. Calling to check if all your materials are received is essential because they often fail to notify you until weeks later if at all.
 
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Hello all,

I am pre-dent and currently on the waitlist for the 2010 entering class.

As a back up, I am planning to do SMP and my question is what do I do

with LORs?

I want to apply in June, but then that means I can't get any LOR from

professors from SMP... what do you guys do?

Thanks! =)
 
Hello all,

I am pre-dent and currently on the waitlist for the 2010 entering class.

As a back up, I am planning to do SMP and my question is what do I do

with LORs?

I want to apply in June, but then that means I can't get any LOR from

professors from SMP... what do you guys do?

Thanks! =)

not sure how the dental apps work, but you can get your letters to be submitted during the first semester. smp faculty and administration are aware that many students apply during the year and depending on the program are generally supportive in that regard.
 
not sure how the dental apps work, but you can get your letters to be submitted during the first semester. smp faculty and administration are aware that many students apply during the year and depending on the program are generally supportive in that regard.


Thanks klmnop!

I just wasn't sure if my application will not be reviewed if I don't submit all 3 LORs on the day I submit my application.

Any pre-dents?
 
Thanks klmnop!

I just wasn't sure if my application will not be reviewed if I don't submit all 3 LORs on the day I submit my application.

Any pre-dents?

You should find out from each school when they want the letters in by.
 
Hi,
I have completed my Biochem undergrad degree with a low GPA of 2.85 and am planning to do SMP to up my GPA. Do SMPs require a GRE?
Also, I have not taken my MCAT yet.
Actually, I was planning to go the post-bacc route to up my GPA, but I don't know if 2 semesters of SMP would weigh more than 2 semesters of undergrad re-do.

Any advice would be appreciated.
Thank you.
 
Hi,
I have completed my Biochem undergrad degree with a low GPA of 2.85 and am planning to do SMP to up my GPA. Do SMPs require a GRE?
Also, I have not taken my MCAT yet.
Actually, I was planning to go the post-bacc route to up my GPA, but I don't know if 2 semesters of SMP would weigh more than 2 semesters of undergrad re-do.

Any advice would be appreciated.
Thank you.

what is your bcmp and pre-req gpa? any failures or anything below a C?
you need a bunch of undergrad work before you can think about an smp.
take undergad courses, anything but preferably mostly science. get your gpa to at least a 3.0-3.2, take the gre or mcat, and then think about an smp. (yes all of them either require one or the other).
 
My sGPA is probably lower than 2.85.
I have a few Cs, no Fs and a couple of Ds.
I was hoping to apply for 2012 entering class but I guess I won't be done with my pre-med GPA requirement by then.
I'm turning 28 this year so all this is really pressurizing :scared::(
 
My sGPA is probably lower than 2.85.
I have a few Cs, no Fs and a couple of Ds.
I was hoping to apply for 2012 entering class but I guess I won't be done with my pre-med GPA requirement by then.
I'm turning 28 this year so all this is really pressurizing :scared::(

indeed but there are lots in your situation
if you have no stipulation with DO i would recommend retaking all of the pre-reqs you got lower than a A/B in, because the AACOMAS will take your retake over a previous C or D. Unfortunately you will not get into a med school with D's in pre-reqs.
after that, work on getting your cGPA and sGPA to 3.0-3.2 as mentioned. it may take some time and lots of credits worth of 4.0 work though
 
What if i have a D is instrumental analysis class (chemistry) and genetics class which are not on the pre-reqs list?
 
What if i have a D is instrumental analysis class (chemistry) and genetics class which are not on the pre-reqs list?

D's don't help anywhere, especially in science courses. And you take genetics in med school so doing that poorly does indeed hurt you a lot.
Again, for DO you can still replace the grade if desired (recommended) but I would wait until your pre-reqs are retaken (if they need to be) and then you are prepared to get an A (and only an A) these two.
 
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Need your thoughts on whether I need to pursue a Masters in Biological Sciences, a certificate, post-bac or just take the MCAT with what I currently have below:

University of Bridgeport: First 2 years: 3.245 (Transferred 1990)
University of Connecticut: Undergrad B.S. in Business = 2.30 (Graduated 1996)
Community College of Philadelphia = 3.04 A.S. in Biology (All Premed courses) Graduated (Fall 2005)
Age: 40

It's obvious the above grades will most certainly deny entrance to any med school. I thought about not mentioning community college at all in any GPA enhancer program in order to take pre-med courses at a higher level although I am not sure that's the right thing to do.

Having said that, I will do what it takes to get there but I've been sort of been looked down by medical advisors because of my poor performance in the past and my choice of schools. No one in my family has degrees and I worked and paid all the tuition but medical committees couldn't care less about that. It's grades + MCAT...and then the big cutoff ax.

So... me fellow postbac m8's, in your humble opinion what would you do in this situation? A few assumptions: 1) I can move anywhere (not married/no house) 2) I will not work while in school (I worked while in school and my grades suffered greatly) 3) I will pay school with loans and savings.

How about Category 1?

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=640302 :D
 
Need your thoughts on whether I need to pursue a Masters in Biological Sciences, a certificate, post-bac or just take the MCAT with what I currently have below:

University of Bridgeport: First 2 years: 3.245 (Transferred 1990)
University of Connecticut: Undergrad B.S. in Business = 2.30 (Graduated 1996)
Community College of Philadelphia = 3.04 A.S. in Biology (All Premed courses) Graduated (Fall 2005)
Age: 40

It's obvious the above grades will most certainly deny entrance to any med school. I thought about not mentioning community college at all in any GPA enhancer program in order to take pre-med courses at a higher level although I am not sure that's the right thing to do.

Having said that, I will do what it takes to get there but I've been sort of been looked down by medical advisors because of my poor performance in the past and my choice of schools. No one in my family has degrees and I worked and paid all the tuition but medical committees couldn't care less about that. It's grades + MCAT...and then the big cutoff ax.

So... me fellow postbac m8's, in your humble opinion what would you do in this situation? A few assumptions: 1) I can move anywhere (not married/no house) 2) I will not work while in school (I worked while in school and my grades suffered greatly) 3) I will pay school with loans and savings.

How about Category 1?

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=640302 :D
I'll be the debbbie downer and tell you to forget medicine. Bare in mind, its strictly my opinion, and others have their own opinions, but if I were in your shoes - i would not pursue medicine.

Here are my reasons;
1) You have failed to demonstrate consistently at any level of education (both 4yr and 2yr schools) that you can perform to the levels expected of a medical school student. The fact that you have straight Bs in CC in your prereqs is a death nail IMO. CC aren't as rigorous as most 4yrs (its debated here, but thisn't the time nor the place) and you failed to get an A average. I'll hope you got straight Bs in there because if you pulled Cs in any of them, then def forget it.
2) Whats your cGPA and sGPA based on all these units? I'm guessing its like 2.8-2.9 based on a guesstimation. This probably isn't going to be good enough to get you into an SMP, and whilst you have an upward trend, a 2.3 to a 3.0 isnt really amazing anyone.
3) Hate to say it but your age. Look at the number of applicants that are 40 and look at the number accepted. Its not a lot. You are at best 2-3 years away from starting (1yr more classes, 1yr SMP, 1 yr glide), and at worst more like 3-5 years. You'd be looking at mid-40s with a poor track record.

I don't like being a dreamkiller - but do something else. In your shoes, I certainly wouldn't try do it as i'd be spending years and years plus $$$ to still be a fringe candidate
 
I'll be the debbbie downer and tell you to forget medicine. Bare in mind, its strictly my opinion, and others have their own opinions, but if I were in your shoes - i would not pursue medicine.

Here are my reasons;
1) You have failed to demonstrate consistently at any level of education (both 4yr and 2yr schools) that you can perform to the levels expected of a medical school student. The fact that you have straight Bs in CC in your prereqs is a death nail IMO. CC aren't as rigorous as most 4yrs (its debated here, but thisn't the time nor the place) and you failed to get an A average. I'll hope you got straight Bs in there because if you pulled Cs in any of them, then def forget it.
2) Whats your cGPA and sGPA based on all these units? I'm guessing its like 2.8-2.9 based on a guesstimation. This probably isn't going to be good enough to get you into an SMP, and whilst you have an upward trend, a 2.3 to a 3.0 isnt really amazing anyone.
3) Hate to say it but your age. Look at the number of applicants that are 40 and look at the number accepted. Its not a lot. You are at best 2-3 years away from starting (1yr more classes, 1yr SMP, 1 yr glide), and at worst more like 3-5 years. You'd be looking at mid-40s with a poor track record.

I don't like being a dreamkiller - but do something else. In your shoes, I certainly wouldn't try do it as i'd be spending years and years plus $$$ to still be a fringe candidate

Those reasons are quite valid and discouraging, albeit true. However, I intend to go back to school (not sure if it will be grad or postbac yet) to prove myself that I can pull A's in upper level science courses. What's the worst that could happen? At least I will know that this path is or isn't intended for me. For what it's worth, it's not so much about what can't be done right now ... it's about not giving up regardless of your age.

I also don't limit myself to the USA for med school. I was born here but I know other med schools outside the States. Besides, whatever school you graduate as a "doctor" you still are going to be a doctor... but it's too early to think about that yet. First, I have to find out where I stand.
 
I just don't know what makes you think you will get As after multiple years of poor grades. Yes you were working but I assume you went part time by the years you listed - therefore you should have done better than Bs. Your best year was a B/B+ which is still a loooooong way to go. Your worst year is a C+.

I think you are fooling yourself about your ability to do the workload based on your academic history
 
I don't think anyone else in this forum will disagree with the points that Rob has made because we can only look at your past performance and do a rough gauge of how you will do in the future, knowing the average stats of those who have gotten accepted.

I do support your personal choice to head towards medical school but as Rob has said, it's just not practical in the amount of time, money and effort involved because even after it is all said and done, you're still a mediocre candidate with a troubled academic past assuming everything will end up as planned. (big assumption)

It can be done though.

I've had a very torrid UG as well and it's taken me a bit more than 2 years to gain enterance into an osteopathic SMP after taking close to an equivalent of a hard sciences major after graduation. My performance the second time around was not stellar by any means but with the help of my MCAT score, support from physicians, great LOR, publications etc. it's got me to this stage so hopefully things will pan out and I can be an OMS-1 next fall (2011). Take from this what you will but realize that effort and determination alone doesn't come close to cutting it. I struggled as I plunged head first into my informal post-bacc classes and had to do some honest to God introspective criticism of myself before things finally began to pick up.

Good luck and in your situation, I wouldn't be looking at Category 1 at all.
 
Hey all,

I've been reading quite a bit on this forum (I'm new) and it seems that the best way to get an answer is to actually ask...so here goes:

Background: I am a rising Senior at a top 10 university. At the moment, I have a cGPA of about 3.3 and my science GPA (I have taken one semester of Chem and 1 year of bio and 1 year of neurobiology) is very low at around <2.5 (My priorities were out of line). However, I do have good/decent volunteer and leadership experience. I am also hoping to get research opportunities this upcoming year.

Plans: I was hoping to get into a PreMed Post-Bacc program to complete the PreMed requirements and because of the support these formal programs can offer.

Questions:

1) I was looking into Columbia*, HES*, UPenn*, Bryn Mawr*, JHU, NYU, UC Berkeley, UConn, and Scripps...Do I stand a chance at ANY of these institutions with my low science GPA? I know if I get the chance to take science courses again, I'll do much better...Columbia says "At a minimum, successful applicants must possess an overall cumulative GPA of 3.0." Although I have this requirement, my science GPA is worrying me.

2) In the case that I do not get into one of the formal programs above (which is what I'm really worried about), is it acceptable for me to pursue a do-it-yourself PreMed curriculum through a school of continuing education (yes, I'm referring to Columbia's school of Continuing Education)?

3) Any suggestions to make my application to these places a bit stronger?

Any help would be great!!! I've been worried sick about this stuff...
 
The fact that you have an sGPA and have taken science courses abeit only a few, excludes you from BM, JHU and Scripps imo, someone like Drizzt who came from Scripps can correct me if I'm wrong. I remember reading on one of their websites that they accept purely non-traditionals with zero science background but someone can verify this.

Your low sGPA will probably prevent you from being accepted at UConn as well as UPenn but Rob can clarify on this, having applied to UConn and currently in UPenn's SSP but he has knowledge of the pre-med program.

No idea about Columbia.

HES and Berkeley Extension (<- this is the one you're referring to right?) are both open programs where I doubt anyone who has money will have trouble enrolling into.

You're going to have trouble getting into formal programs based off the fact that you've taken a science courses and will have additional trouble getting into the ones that will allow a few science courses taken because you've done so poorly in them. UT Dallas, UVA and WashU all come to mind as formal programs that do accept students with a few pre-reqs completed and I believe SFSU will as well. I'm not 100% positive on their admissions criteria though.
 
Your low sGPA will probably prevent you from being accepted at UConn as well as UPenn but Rob can clarify on this, having applied to UConn and currently in UPenn's SSP but he has knowledge of the pre-med program.
Your very low sGPA will hurt if you wish to come to Penn but if you have high SATs/high GREs then that will help balance off a little. Your cGPA is higher than the program cutoff and therefore the combo of a good standardized test and higher than avg cGPA will help your app. Penn's program will allow you to finish the prereqs and do some other things if you so wish.

In terms of UConn, the program is really tough to get into for an in-state student and essentially impossible (i've never heard of a single student) for an OOS. The program is really uber-small and hard to get into. Its worth an app but certainly don't expect to get in or even harbor massive ambitions to go there.

HES sounds like a good option for you and Penn would work as well as it is flexible in regards to number of prereqs taken
 
Hey all,

2) In the case that I do not get into one of the formal programs above (which is what I'm really worried about), is it acceptable for me to pursue a do-it-yourself PreMed curriculum through a school of continuing education (yes, I'm referring to Columbia's school of Continuing Education)?

Thanks so much for all the help, guys! I think I will try my luck since I have do have a decent SAT score and good volunteer/leadership experience.

However, I'm still lost about my 2nd question (see above)...any help there would really guide me in the right direction...

thanks!
 
You'll get into one of the programs we've discussed. Almost no-one doesn't get into HES for example.

And if you are doing DIY, do it at a local 4yr state university as it will be cheaper
 
Thanks so much for all the help, guys! I think I will try my luck since I have do have a decent SAT score and good volunteer/leadership experience.

However, I'm still lost about my 2nd question (see above)...any help there would really guide me in the right direction...

thanks!

Going a la carte will be a lot cheaper, but considering your age, you might appreciate the formal structure of some night post-bacs, that allow you to work at the same time.
 
This is my first post. I just graduated from undergrad with
Cum gpa= 2.85
sci gpa= 2.89
Mcat= 25
have good LOR

I recently applied to some carribean med school. I got accepted into some and still awaiting response from others. However, I would really like to stay in the United States.
My question is 1. Do I have a chance to get acceptance into a SMPs or postbac program? 2. What programs are still accepting applications at this time?
 
The deadlines for allopathic SMPs that still have not passed would be
RFU MBS (July 15th?)
BU MAMS (No deadline)
Tufts MBS (July 1st?)

Those are the ones just off the top of my head, could be right or wrong.

Your stats put you in a noncompetitive category for most SMPs mainly because of your MCAT but if you were to consider osteopathic medicine and were willing to enter an osteopathic SMP, you might have a couple of options still open at this point in time.
 
I was wondering if anyone can give me some specific advice on choosing an SMP program. I got accepted to the Cincy SMP, Loyola, and Drexel's IMS and waiting to hear back from Gtown. I'll be applying to med. school concurrently while during the SMP. Which one of these above programs do you guys think would give its students the best chances of getting accepted into med. school right after completion? I personally hear a lot of good things about Cincy and Gtown's got the reputation, but at this point my decision is still up in the air.

And what does drexelized mean? I read some posts a few years back that implied Drexel's program had some disadvantages, although it was wasn't clear what they were. Their stats sound great, but I'm a bit concerned with the large class size. Thanks for everyone's help! Wish I discovered this site sooner.
 
I was wondering if anyone can give me some specific advice on choosing an SMP program. I got accepted to the Cincy SMP, Loyola, and Drexel's IMS and waiting to hear back from Gtown. I'll be applying to med. school concurrently while during the SMP. Which one of these above programs do you guys think would give its students the best chances of getting accepted into med. school right after completion? I personally hear a lot of good things about Cincy and Gtown's got the reputation, but at this point my decision is still up in the air.

And what does drexelized mean? I read some posts a few years back that implied Drexel's program had some disadvantages, although it was wasn't clear what they were. Their stats sound great, but I'm a bit concerned with the large class size. Thanks for everyone's help! Wish I discovered this site sooner.

I'll take a stab at this but I'll probably get flamed on for some of the opinions that I personally hold so keep in mind these are my own opinions so take them with a grain of salt.

Since you're considering SMPs as a legitamite route for yourself, I'm assuming you have a deficiency in your application (GPA or MCAT). You need to realize that it is only realistic that if you do well in your SMP (subjective) that you will not be accepted into top 10 schools but mid tier. With those SMPs that you have mentioned (Loyola, Gtown, Drexel IMS and UCinn), I personally feel that the distinction you're going to make is whether you want a high linkage program that will have a high probability of getting back into that very medical school (UCinn) or attend a program with a better (subjective again) reputation (Gtown).

I would choose UCinn, run with it and never look back. I have read plenty of positive feedback from students from that program as well as numerous success stories. I really respect programs who make it a priority to take back in proven students who have completed their program successfully. It shows that they are committed and proud of the "finished product" they have nurtured. My own opinion.

If you choose Gtown, you're paying (a huge amount) for the "emblem" of "I survived Gtown SMP!" on your AMCAS. Whereas before, they were head and shoulders above the other few SMPs years ago, many others have been created which boast quite similar #s for acceptance into medical school. Not to paint this in a negative light as I believe Gtown SMP to be one of the top programs, but reading posts by Haplo who is a current Gtown SMP student and seeing him without acceptances despite having a GPA of a B+ and working his !#% off turns me off a bit. His stats weren't low to start out with by any means and for him to consider osteopathic schools if things continue to not pan out when he could probably have done so years ago without Gtown SMP makes me wonder how many students actually get into mid tier allopathic schools upon completion.

Though "Drexelized" is obviously not an actual term/word, I believe many in this forum understand what Dr. Midlife means. This is again, my own opinion, but Drexel seems to be very intent on creating many programs with a low efficacy for their cost. They accept a large number of students dangling a formality interview (subjective) like a carrot on a stick but provide little support compared to their other SMP counterparts. IMS students are not permitted to step foot on the Queen's lane campus when many other SMPs allow their graduate students to take classes with the medical school students. IMS students are also taught through live video feeds which I personally dislike though several other IMS students feel differently and feel that it is a bonus. Another example is how Drexel MSP has a sole purpose for "successful" students to move into the IMS program. So.. you take/pay for a pseudo SMP to prove that you can move into an actual low efficacy SMP (IMS)? I can't seem to really understand this concept. So in a nutshell, "drexelized" = low efficacy, large student body programs whose purposes is to just take your money. That's my opinion when I see that.
 
Was referring to Drexel as the low efficacy program and the term "drexelized" to carry that connotation. I in no way believe BU MAMS is low as I ranked it within the top 4 on par with Tufts MBS.
 
Cincy is pretty much the best SMP program there is, I'd go there (unless Tulane ACP is in the picture, even though it's not really a SMP).

I was wondering if anyone can give me some specific advice on choosing an SMP program. I got accepted to the Cincy SMP, Loyola, and Drexel's IMS and waiting to hear back from Gtown. I'll be applying to med. school concurrently while during the SMP. Which one of these above programs do you guys think would give its students the best chances of getting accepted into med. school right after completion? I personally hear a lot of good things about Cincy and Gtown's got the reputation, but at this point my decision is still up in the air.

And what does drexelized mean? I read some posts a few years back that implied Drexel's program had some disadvantages, although it was wasn't clear what they were. Their stats sound great, but I'm a bit concerned with the large class size. Thanks for everyone's help! Wish I discovered this site sooner.
 
I've heard back from 4 schools (SMPs) so far and I'm waiting for the rest...but just in case I don't get in anywhere else...I need help/advice choosing amongst:

UMDNJ vs. VCU vs. NYMC (the 2 year track). :confused:

not sure what to do, any input would be greatly appreciated!
 
I just don't know what makes you think you will get As after multiple years of poor grades. Yes you were working but I assume you went part time by the years you listed - therefore you should have done better than Bs. Your best year was a B/B+ which is still a loooooong way to go. Your worst year is a C+.

I think you are fooling yourself about your ability to do the workload based on your academic history



Basically I only disagree on the age factor nonsense. But it is amazing how quickly the underlying mentality of "Life is pretty much going south after 30" changes to utter joke material once late 30's hit. It's pretty ridiculous, and it is all just reinforced ageism from cultural and other influences in western society. It's nonsense, especially if you take care of yourself.

Flanker, trust me. If you take care of yourself and have good genes and such, you will definitely see. It's a lot more mental than people initially understand. It's also probably a lot of unconscious reproductive biological influences that allow this mentality to go on too. It's fascinating how humans can do so much more and be so productive beyond mere reproduction. Hmmm, imagine that. . .

But I do agree that the trend doesn't look good.

To the OP, if you want to do this MS thing, take whatever and do what is necessary. It's your life. You will have to bust major humpage to overcome that though. Only you know if you are up for that. So, do whatever you can to get into a SMP, do exceedingly well, and then kill the MCAT.

I've been in healthcare for years. Three big things IMHO that make great physicians--> commitment, determination, and vigilance. Unless you have a serious learning disability or something of that nature--or maybe UR, it doesn't look good. If you focus hard, however, keeping those three things in mind (commitment, determination, and vigilance), you may find you have a shot. Short of doing exceedingly well academically, and I'd say over 33 on the MCAT, well, yours will be a major tough sell to ad coms--especially for allopathic schools.
 
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Basically I only disagree on the age factor nonsense. But it is amazing how quickly the underlying mentality of "Life is pretty much going south after 30" changes to utter joke material once late 30's hit. It's pretty ridiculous, and it is all just reinforced ageism from cultural and other influences in western society. It's nonsense, especially if you take care of yourself.

Flanker, trust me. If you take care of yourself and have good genes and such, you will definitely see. It's a lot more mental than people initially understand. It's also probably a lot of unconscious reproductive biological influences that allow this mentality to go on too. It's fascinating how humans can do so much more and be so productive beyond mere reproduction. Hmmm, imagine that. . .

But I do agree that the trend doesn't look good.

To the OP, if you want to do this MS thing, take whatever and do what is necessary. It's your life. You will have to bust major humpage to overcome that though. Only you know if you are up for that. So, do whatever you can to get into a SMP, do exceedingly well, and then kill the MCAT.

I've been in healthcare for years. Three big things IMHO that make great physicians--> commitment, determination, and vigilance. Unless you have a serious learning disability or something of that nature--or maybe UR, it doesn't look good. If you focus hard, however, keeping those three things in mind (commitment, determination, and vigilance), you may find you have a shot. Short of doing exceedingly well academically, and I'd say over 33 on the MCAT, well, yours will be a major tough sell to ad coms--especially for allopathic schools.
What the hell are you wittering about? You responded to a month old post of mine, and there is no OP really if you look at the title and subject of this thread...

Your ageism ramblings are your opinion, just as I voiced my opinion that if I were at that age what I would do. But thanks for the 30something pep talk.

Genes and reproduction in regard to MS, SMPs, and ability to handle med school style coursework? Were you drinking and posting?
 
i have a question.
my gpa doesnt look good
after partying too much in freshmen year
(like Gen Bio I, II needs to be retaken + calc II and maybe gen chem II)
but after looking into the programs,
they want you to take all the courses they offer or require like a year in studying there.
is there any Post-Bac program that will only replace your bad grade with the grade that you receive in that program?

or should i just go to a near-by college and try to retake those.?
 
i have a question.
my gpa doesnt look good
after partying too much in freshmen year
(like Gen Bio I, II needs to be retaken + calc II and maybe gen chem II)
but after looking into the programs,
they want you to take all the courses they offer or require like a year in studying there.
is there any Post-Bac program that will only replace your bad grade with the grade that you receive in that program?

or should i just go to a near-by college and try to retake those.?
Your bad grade will never be replaced on your transcript but can be replaced in DO GPA grade calculations.
How bad is your GPA? have you done the rest of the prereqs?
 
What the hell are you wittering about? You responded to a month old post of mine, and there is no OP really if you look at the title and subject of this thread...

Your ageism ramblings are your opinion, just as I voiced my opinion that if I were at that age what I would do. But thanks for the 30something pep talk.

Genes and reproduction in regard to MS, SMPs, and ability to handle med school style coursework? Were you drinking and posting?


It means that part of the issue with ageism is the underlying reproductive drive. But, whatever. I wasn't giving you a hard time or anything. Just trying to point out ageism that underlies so much in western society. If you aren't there, you will be, and then your position may be quite different--probably.

Not knocking your opinion either. So try not to knock my perspective. You had your two cents. I had mine. The person will do whatever he or she is driven to do. . .or they will not.

No worries and definitely no need to be defensive. I just have a different take on things, and one day, you may have a different one too.

I'm saying that the individual factor w/ nature and nuture play a big part in things; thus age should NOT be a factor. Believe whatever. Lots of people want to work until their final days. I know lots of docs that did this. They practiced into late 70's and 80's. If they had retired earlier, who knows. It might have killed them. Purpose and the human will are pretty strong things.

Try not to let yourself get so easily perturbed over things that were not meant to be anything but a differing perspective from your own.

But I think you are right in that this person has a hard row to hoe.



No I wasn't drinking, but I can't help but wonder if a stiff drink would help you relax a bit.

Sheesh.
 
i have a question.
my gpa doesnt look good
after partying too much in freshmen year
(like Gen Bio I, II needs to be retaken + calc II and maybe gen chem II)
but after looking into the programs,
they want you to take all the courses they offer or require like a year in studying there.
is there any Post-Bac program that will only replace your bad grade with the grade that you receive in that program?

or should i just go to a near-by college and try to retake those.?

Your bad grade will never be replaced on your transcript but can be replaced in DO GPA grade calculations.
How bad is your GPA? have you done the rest of the prereqs?

What Rob mentioned about your bad grades not being replaced on your transcript but will be on AACOMAS' grade calculations is correct.

But what I will say is that you should never take a formal program for the purpose of "repeating" classes. I actually doubt you can even enroll in specific pre-med formal programs (assuming you are since you wish to retake pre-requisites) having completed some of them. Most will state clearly on their webpage or brochure or information booklet that they are not remedial programs and will not accept students using their program for "retakes".

If you're looking for AE type formal programs, you can look at SFSU, UT Dallas, UVA, or WashU to name a few. If you know you need to repeat classes, I would just do them at a local 4 year university then look to SMPs or AE programs to take you to the next step assuming you meet their guidelines. Those programs usually only accept students that they feel can successfully enter medical school after completion of their program which means you should have had the complete application package besides the GPA deficit that you're attempting to repair.
 
thanks so much man.
so you suggest
that i "repair" the bad GPA in local college or universities
and then
if i want to strengthen my application,
take SMPs or formal programs after that
correct?
 
Good Evening all you SDN'ers out there! I am definitely new to this site but enjoying all the information I am reading on here.

To give a little background on myself:
I, along with most people here, have always wanted to become a doctor. That was my passion when I first entered Community College. There I was in a few prehealth organizations. After completing the necessary requirements I transferred from community college to UC Berkeley where I graduated recently (Spring '10) with a degree in Molecular Environmental Biology. My calculated amcas GPA is 3.06 and my sGPA is 2.91. After my first year at Cal i realized that my GPA would not be competitive enough to get into Medical School so I decided a graduate program in Evolutionary Biology is where I would like to go. But since graduation, all I can think about is Medical School. I am taking a few night courses at community college to keep my biology up to date and I am studying for the MCAT (I dont know when I will be taking it, but I have the time). I am applying to a few internships through UC Davis and will start volunteering at a local hospital here. This brings me to my questions:

I am interested in an Academic Enhancement Postbacc program but have no idea what type of program (formal/informal) or what school to attend. On the flipside would I get into an SMP? I am interested in going to UC Davis for their program but I keep reading amazing things about San Francisco State's program. I was wondering what type of advice you knowledgeable folks can give me? What programs would I be eligible for, etc?

Thanks!
 
Hi guys,
Question: Can I retake some pre-reqs that i didnt do well in (C+'s) at a local Community College? Well I'm sure I technically could, what I would like to know is if it counts towards my science GPA and replaces on DO applications / averages on MD applications.
Also, if I'm taking an undergraduate upper division biochemistry series as part of a graduate program, does that count as upper div science classes and would that be counted to my science gpa?

thanks alot!
 
Question: Can I retake some pre-reqs that i didnt do well in (C+'s) at a local Community College? Well I'm sure I technically could, what I would like to know is if it counts towards my science GPA and replaces on DO applications / averages on MD applications.
You can, and community college grades are undergrad, thus counted in your undergrad GPA. However, put some thought into whether second-attempt coursework at a community college is the best you can do to demonstrate you're ready for the rigor of med school coursework despite C's on your first try. There are cases where community college coursework is fine; I would argue that yours is not one of them. See what other folks tell you.
Also, if I'm taking an undergraduate upper division biochemistry series as part of a graduate program, does that count as upper div science classes and would that be counted to my science gpa?
If the undergrad coursework counts toward a grad degree, it's counted as grad work. Consult the rulebooks:
http://www.aamc.org/students/amcas/2011amcasinstructions.pdf
http://www.aacom.org/InfoFor/applicants/documents/instructions.pdf
 
Would you say that enrolling in upper division biology classes via an extension center would be a better option than retaking prereqs?

Thanks again Dr. Midlife
 
Would you say that enrolling in upper division biology classes via an extension center would be a better option than retaking prereqs?

Thanks again Dr. Midlife
The reason to take more undergrad coursework, whether prereqs or upper div science, is to take a swipe at raising your cumulative undergrad GPA. Right?

The reason to retake your prereqs is because you got C's in several of them, if I recall correctly. Maybe you don't need to retake all the C's, but I think this is a problem to address. I would not say you're ready to do MCAT prep with that many C's - you still need to learn the material.

In my opinion, you should swipe with the prereqs before you take on upper div. Retakes of prereqs are a nice big swipe at your DO school GPA calcs. For MD school GPA calcs, the swipe is the same size for retakes as for new coursework.

Best of luck to you.
 
Hello, I'm a newbie here.

I recently graduated from UCLA and currently working at a lab in San Diego, my hometown. For my medical school/DO pre-reqs, I have 2 C- (general chemistry classes) and a C in ochem. My goal is retake those classes and achieve all A's so it'll increase my overall/science GPA when applying to DO schools.

My question: when retaking those 3 classes, do I have to retake the 3 classes at UCLA (my original school) in order for my old grades to be replaced? Or can I take any two general chem classes and ochem class at my local state university (CSU San Marcos) and still have the 3 C's replaced with my hopefully A grades. My main concern is retaking the 3 preqs at a local state school, but it won't replaced my 3 C's when calculating overall gpa.

I would go back to UCLA to retake my classes, but I don't want to leave my lab back in San Diego.
 
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You can retake them anywhere - though I would retake them at another 4-yr university so it doesnt look like you took the easy way out at a CC.

When you go to enter the classes in AMCAS/AACOMAS - you can designate them as a repeat and highlight the original class.

Just make sure you get As, cos Bs aren't going to help your situation
 
Has anyone applied to the Temple ACMS? I want to apply to the program but I don't think my SAT score is above 1200, did anyone know if I can take it again? I also tried to find out exactly what I got from the collegeboard.com but I can't log on anymore since I changed email address (it's been a while since I took the SAT). Does anyone know if they actually require SAT scores? I contacted the admission officer but they never reply me. So if anyone can help me out that'd be great!
 
Category 3: Retakes and/or additional undergrad in a structured environment[/B] (19 programs)
- You finished some of the prereqs already.
- You need to retake the prereqs.
- You want upper div science to beef up your undergrad GPA.

...

Harvard Extension - Health Careers Program Cambridge, MA

...


For Harvard Extension, you can't have previously taken the pre-reqs. There might be some other small misplacements (I didn't go through the entire sticky), but it's otherwise a great list.

Thanks DrMidlife
 
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