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Gee, when you put it like that...and my skin is fish-belly white
Gee, when you put it like that...and my skin is fish-belly white
I was wondering the same thing myself.Also, where the heck are you people shopping that its so difficult/expensive to find suits? I bought two Calvin Klein suits (pants for me as I personally dislike skirt suits but that's because I don't like stockings and my skin is fish-belly white) for $80 each at Ross & Burlington Coat Factory - NOT polyester.
In the US. There are less conservative areas of the world, and there are less conservative professions.
In the US. There are less conservative areas of the world, and there are less conservative professions.
I can count numerous other reasons. But I bet most ppl probably can't, won't or are just put off by non-adherence to conformity, whether or not that is the reason in itself. Kinda frustrating.
I get a rock hard one whenever I see a really elegant woman in a dress. Are you saying that I am secretly gay? OMG!
That's kinda cool.
No. You're wrong. That isn't the point.
Professional attire is defended the most by those ppl who like to dress professionally. Professionalism is a cheap excuse to avoid seeing yourself as vain, and coercing co-workers to adhere to the same rules of the costume party. Women are drawn to men who dress in uniforms. It is about looks for the sake of looks sex, and role play (which is what some ppl call professionalism).
Everybody lies.
To stir the pot even more... I haven't been wearing suits. I strongly dislike them. I think women's suits are an artificial attempt to masculinize us.
BUT the major caveat is that what I have been wearing most certainly is in that amorphous category of 'professional.'
What do I wear? [straight men feel free to skip over this paragraph as it will probably make you want to go outside and toss the ball around a bit] When I interviewed for medical school, I wore a ladies' tuxedo from a British design house with a fedora. Now I wear separates with color, print, texture, etc that are *never* revealing, tight, cheap, uncomfortable, outre, or casual. I have, for example, beautiful wool slacks from Gucci with a gorgeous sheen; a rich gold cowl-neck silk blouse from an NYC boutique; and a muted print silk-wool jacket from Escada. The look is formal, feminine, subtle, but emphatically NOT a suit. It *is* self-expression, because I love fashion and follow it closely, but not in confrontational "look at me I'm so different" kind of way. Or a label-*****-conspicuous-consumption kind of way with nasty CCs and LVs plastered all over everything.
It's always been commented upon favorably, when commented upon at all. Most people glide their eyes right over me as I think the message is well-conveyed that I'm paying the program due respect with my attire. You don't need a polyester pantsuit from the Dress Barn to look the part of a doctor.
The most grievous fashion error I've noted is women who wear shoes in which they can't walk. IMHO if you can't go on a hospital tour or climb a flight of steps in your shoes, you quite frankly look ******ed.
It is relevant as to whether there is an axiom that doctors must play dress up in order to practice medicine, or whether this is a result of conformity of the US population, or a subset of it, which may change over time.I'm not sure how that's relevant:
1) this is a US forum
2) most members are in the US
3) we are talking about medicine, a conservative profession
I don't really care much what accountants in Minsk wear for their job interviews.
Please enlighten me, how normal, daily cycles of hormonal influence has anything to do with professionalism. That is just sexism, what you just spat out. Accepted sexism on SDN as bigotry is OK, as long as it goes in favor of feminism, and is against men in some way.Now THAT is professional.
Who said anything about having axes to grind? I was talking about preferences.Professional attire is defended by people who dont have an axe to grind, and who dont feel the need to "express themselves", "show their individuality", and who got enough hugs from daddy when they were small.
I have the impression, lack of one thing seems to exclude the other, in simple, conservative minds.Do you mean professionalism, or professional attire?
It is a rationalization. Look up the word rationalization, e.g on wikipedia. Human ppl lie, to avoid cognitive dissonance. Like: "I don't wear a tie, because I am a vain, stiff upper lip snob, I wear a tie because I have to be professional, whatever that means."Avoid seeing yourself as vain"...what does that mean?
I said what I was saying. That it obviously is such a problem for certain ppl to simply wear what they'd like to wear, without coercing other colleagues to do the same. That discussion strategy of playing stupid deliberately, is extremely lame and not very flattering.Housestaff, the Army, the FDNY, all have rules to adhere to. So what were you saying?
I get a rock hard one whenever I see a really elegant woman in a dress. Are you saying that I am secretly gay? OMG!
Now THAT is professional.
Please enlighten me, how normal, daily cycles of hormonal influence has anything to do with professionalism. That is just sexism, what you just spat out. Accepted sexism on SDN as bigotry is OK, as long as it goes in favor of feminism, and is against men in some way.
Huh. I usually assume people on here are men (as most people assume I am, incorrectly), but I always thought you were a woman. Years of understanding come crashing down!I read it anyway.
Guys have rules too you know. One of them is - nothing with a sheen. I dont really know what my point is, but its something along the lines of... Interview attire for men (as per the books out there that guide one through the Match) is not the same as Professional attire for men. Interview attire is more restricted - things like no sheen, no pinstripes...
Hell, no AFTERSHAVE!
Ive been going on interviews with my face on fire, and wanting to claw it off because aftershave lotion is not appropriate for interviews.
Do they exist?*********************************
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I read it anyway.
Guys have rules too you know. One of them is - nothing with a sheen. I dont really know what my point is, but its something along the lines of... Interview attire for men (as per the books out there that guide one through the Match) is not the same as Professional attire for men. Interview attire is more restricted - things like no sheen, no pinstripes...
Hell, no AFTERSHAVE!
Ive been going on interviews with my face on fire, and wanting to claw it off because aftershave lotion is not appropriate for interviews.
Today I had my first ever non-suit-wearing applicant. Surprisingly, neither the PD nor chair noted it or gave her a lower score because of it. Another (younger) faculty member did comment in a negative way, calling it "too casual" and "inappropriate." Pretty much exactly the opposite of what I expected to happen.
Hmm, maybe I'm a bad shopper, but yeah, I had a ridiculously hard time finding a suit and checked out all the stores you guys mentioned. I also live in a smaller city, and am a non-size 0 petite (Ann Taylor didn't have suit jackets above size 2 in their petite section). And I still feel like there are fewer choices than there were several years ago, but I guess that feeling is probably subjective.
So I think from this thread, we can conclude that you probably should wear a suit and skip danskos. Some of the other rules are surprising to me, though. For example, I've never heard that pinstripes weren't OK for either men or women. I've seen lots of guys with pinstripes on the trail, and I'm sure it's a non-issue for them (along with the shoes without laces ).
After shave isn't appropriate? Really? That sounds fairly ridiculous. Honestly, unless it's incredibly strong smelling, why would they know/care?
Hmm, maybe I'm a bad shopper, but yeah, I had a ridiculously hard time finding a suit and checked out all the stores you guys mentioned. I also live in a smaller city, and am a non-size 0 petite (Ann Taylor didn't have suit jackets above size 2 in their petite section). And I still feel like there are fewer choices than there were several years ago, but I guess that feeling is probably subjective.
So I think from this thread, we can conclude that you probably should wear a suit and skip danskos. Some of the other rules are surprising to me, though. For example, I've never heard that pinstripes weren't OK for either men or women. I've seen lots of guys with pinstripes on the trail, and I'm sure it's a non-issue for them (along with the shoes without laces ).
Yeah there's pinstripes and then there's pinstripes.
The thin ones are fine, and professional. They tend to be what makes a suit professional rather than formal - A totally solid suit is more formal, like for a wedding or funeral.
the bright powder blue against navy stripes (think Dr 90210) are not for interviews.
Its a habit you should get in to - not wearing aftershave. Many patients are very sensitive to it, even allergic, as would be your co-workers in close quarters. We ask our employees not to wear it.
Its a habit you should get in to - not wearing aftershave. Many patients are very sensitive to it, even allergic, as would be your co-workers in close quarters. We ask our employees not to wear it.
I dont think its a habit I really want to get into. Like veenut said, some patients are sensitive to soap. It's really uncomfortable for me not to use it, and i dont suppose that it's going to get much better over time. And since I use the $3 drugstore stuff, I'm pretty sure the scent dissipates in an hour or less anyway.
Given the odors I am exposed to on a daily basis, I'd have to say many patients are allergic to soap.
I've honestly never heard any comments about aftershave in the workplace. I can see how dousing yourself in cologne or aftershave is unprofessional but I fail to see how a quick splash (which btw feels quite nice after shaving) would be considered offensive
I dont think its a habit I really want to get into. Like veenut said, some patients are sensitive to soap. It's really uncomfortable for me not to use it, and i dont suppose that it's going to get much better over time. And since I use the $3 drugstore stuff, I'm pretty sure the scent dissipates in an hour or less anyway.
I don't think anyone said it was offensive. My point was that many workplaces do ban scented fragrances. Do you find your aftershave masks the odors of patients? Because if it did, it would have to be pretty strong. I find that I have to use oil of mint or clove to cover some of the stench.
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yea, finding a suit can be hard in some geographic places =/. I'm a female and size 6 but live in a geographic location where morbid obesity is at a maximum relative to the rest of the country. So everything is in extra extra extra large size. I literally went through the whole mall and found 2 suits in my size...I settled for one, but it was still baggy...
Thanks to SDN, I heard good things about Macy's and got myself a nice Tahari suit for under $120 early in the fall . Best suit I ever got and I got complimented too.
texas?
haha . Really good guess, but no, not Texas. Although some neighborhoods are very reminiscent of it.
An older population would have a higher absolute # of women (obesity rates would account for this).Cleveland?
Cleveland is #1 in the country for female obesity, but surprisingly didn't even make the top 10 for men.
An older population would have a higher absolute # of women (obesity rates would account for this).
since we are on the subject of fashion, what do those who have applied for a surgical specialty think about bowties? I have been wearing them consistently in the hospital and to church with nothing but positive complements. Should I break out the normal tie for interviews or can I stick with the bowtie?
since we are on the subject of fashion, what do those who have applied for a surgical specialty think about bowties? I have been wearing them consistently in the hospital and to church with nothing but positive complements. Should I break out the normal tie for interviews or can I stick with the bowtie?
since we are on the subject of fashion, what do those who have applied for a surgical specialty think about bowties? I have been wearing them consistently in the hospital and to church with nothing but positive complements. Should I break out the normal tie for interviews or can I stick with the bowtie?
since we are on the subject of fashion, what do those who have applied for a surgical specialty think about bowties? I have been wearing them consistently in the hospital and to church with nothing but positive complements. Should I break out the normal tie for interviews or can I stick with the bowtie?
point taken. thanks!Normal tie.
The bowtie connotes "different", "eccentric", etc. Not something you want to convey during interviews.
point taken. thanks!
Normal tie.
The bowtie connotes "different", "eccentric", etc. Not something you want to convey during interviews.
Huh. I usually assume people on here are men (as most people assume I am, incorrectly), but I always thought you were a woman. Years of understanding come crashing down!
Normal tie.
The bowtie connotes "different", "eccentric", etc. Not something you want to convey during interviews.
Me too! WTF, H-J is a dude?? I wonder why we automatically assign genders to screennames/avatars with no basis? And Burnsie, people assume you are male because there is a Mr in your name. So that's not exactly fair.
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