Heard some good advice and now wondering if PT is the best choice.

[NATO]

<rambling on>

I just finished watching CNN's presentation of 'Smart is the New Rich' with the author (yeah, I'm bored now that the Christmas gifts are open).

Anyway, one of the financial interviewee's stated something that really struck a cord with me when it comes to selecting schools. He said "For every $1 you barrow for your student loan, expect to pay back $2." Also, your entire college tuition should be around the same cost as your first year's salary. So let's say you plan to make 60K from your from PT job out of school...then you apply/attend a school that cost no more than 60K total for the 3 years of schooling.

The 2 public in-state schools for me are VCU and ODU. I think I have a better chance at winning the mega lotto than getting into VCU (I called their admissions office and the rep clearly stated that they prefer traditional students and frown upon community college credits). Being that I'm 32 years old, working full time in the IT field, and taking all my PT pre-reqs at the local community college on a part time status, I wouldn't be surprised if VCU automatically throws my application in the trash. I went to ODU's open house a few months ago. They stated that they don't give preference between traditional and non-traditional applicants. So...just soley based off all that, ODU is my primary choice.

Plan A: Get into PT school for 2012 entry; If I'm rejected, then Plan B.

Plan B: I'll take Microbiology and Org. Chemistry and re apply to PT school for 2013. I will also apply to PA schools and DO schools at this point since I would have all the pre-reqs done that are needed for DO and PA programs. It doesn't hurt to try, right?

Plan C: If I'm rejected again, then......not sure, haven't thought that far.

A final note on the program that I watched today...they said that demand in ALL jobs in healthcare will be very strong due to these jobs not being out sourced as well as the Baby Boomers getting older and eventually dying. Topping the list of healthcare jobs in demand were doctors (all types), nurses, medical assistants, and home health aids.

The segment also went into how the cost of retiring is very high and continues to go up. The current rate for getting a private room in a nursing home is 79k/year! This really scares me because I refuse to assume that I will have family to support me (i.e. let me stay with them) when I become a very old woman (if I get that far in life). Lots of things to think about in terms of changing to a 2nd career in life as a PT.

</rambling off>

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[hefe]

Disclaimer: I come from the opposite end of you as a 'traditional' student, but here's some of my thoughts having talked to many people older than myself in various positions. I hope some of it will help you through your ramblings. Haha, the mentality may be voiced as a 'Scrooge' outlook compared to those like me in my early 20s. So obviously, things like quality of life and program strength are of importance too. This post is primarily on financial aspects only to help with yours and others searches, which is a very real consideration for many.

First you have a great head on your shoulder not wanting to get sacked with debt in your PT journey. PT's don't have the earning power of MD's (or DO), so arguably I don't see much point in paying near those levels of tuition.

Most of what you write is all ring true about debt structure and realistic expectations. It can be a hard thing to manage if you take on more than your share and have to funnel it into things other than your school debt. It becomes even more realistically difficult if you have to provide for a family or have unrealistic expenditures in a circumstance. Having a mortgage during PT school likely isn't the best idea for many because of this either.

My personal financial goals for PT school.
Get in as soon as realistically possible, get the most out of your education and get on with what you want to do (PT!). All the while afterward, conscious about paying down debt. I don't need a honkin' boat anchor following me into my prime.

Despite this talk about debt the easiest way to avoid it is to look at tuition prices. Going In-State is very reasonable, you already pay taxes in Virginia. You only have a few public PT schools in Virginia? This is not unusual.
You should still plan on apply to them first (ODO, and yes VCU is quite competitive).
Now lets look at your other accredited school from CAPTE, and look at other Virginia schools. You have Hampton University, might be private and cost? 16,000 off their site. Under our 60,000 total, so ok apply.
http://science.hamptonu.edu/pt/
http://science.hamptonu.edu/pt/financial.cfm

What about Marymount? Ok they're at 28,000 a year sound expensive? It is... next.
http://www.marymount.edu/studentAccts/tuition.aspx#phys

Shenandoah, let see 99 Cr x $720 that's ~$72,000 total. Sounds pretty expensive again.
http://www.su.edu/admission/E2B6CA8F74224CEE84BD023B6AD7ED64.asp
http://www.su.edu/health/B0DB4134C6B04C64BF13E48CCE6D0B5A.asp


Now, 3 maybe 4 schools we've found. Lets realistically apply to more.

From here how tied are you to Virginia? From here if you keep an open mind in your search, unless you have a clear justification for why a more a expensive school is justifiable to apply. Sometimes out of state Public and Private can be more/ less than your 60,000 mark you described... You need to look for them. Take a random school from my head, University of Central Arkansas DPT. They cost maybe $400 a unit for out of state, putting 126 unit length at ~50,000. This is a public school with an accredited program less than those private ones in Virginia.

Point? Research, research, research... the internet and this list are your friends.http://www.apta.org/am/template.cfm...schools/acc_schools_map.cfm&process=3&type=pt
See what will fit with what your comfortable, make yourself competitive, and apply! Apply to as many of these school as you can, you'll better your chances.

You're working now, so you may have some advantage of non-trad to save with a decent paying job now if you're fortunate enough to have one. Point? Maybe you can save 5,000 with some cutbacks before and during your application process. Use whatever you can save now for fees, deposits, and maybe future tuition.

Keep your grades up, read up on SDN, talk to schools and recent PT grads about how to be the most competitive you can be.

Best of luck to you in your journey and Merry Christmas!

 

[hefe]

Most important question to your original title... How much are you sure you want to do PT over other professions?

 

[FLsurferDPT]

.

 

[NATO]

Most important question to your original title... How much are you sure you want to do PT over other professions?

I'll let you know after I get some PT shadowing hours under my belt. Thanks for all the information!

 

[TheOx777]

I think your concerns are warranted and justified. No one wants to be hamstrung with the burden of debt forever. That said, I think you and everyone else who expresses these concerns should understand that it is, in most cases, an INEVITABLE part of higher education if you are coming from a poor, working poor, or middle class family/station. This is specifically true at the post-baccalaureate levels, because there is even less funding for students at this level of education. After you understand this, then you can move forward making a decision as to which career path you would like to choose.

As stated in this thread, there are pros and cons to any profession you decide to go into. DPT and DO can offer you their own good and bad.

DPT:
PROS
-Finish school in 2.5-3.5 years
-Very High Patient Contact
-Make a decent salary(55K-105K) based on setting, experience, location
-EXPERT in rehabilitation science
-Can work with so many types of patients
-Less Liability
-Typical work week(40hrs)

CONS
-Schooling is too expensive(even for the cheaper programs)
-Most PTs cannot treat without a referral from MDs/DOs
-Reports of a lack of autonomy
-Not at the top of the medical food chain
-Scope of practice limited to aspects of rehab

DO
PROS
-Make tons more money than the avg. PT(125K+ up middle 6 figures)
-The scope of practice is much more expansive, including some manual aspects used in PT settings
-Top of the food chain
CONS
-Schooling is much longer(5-9 years) depending on specialty
-Much more liability
-Still this stigma out there that DOs are not "as good" as MDs(a complete crock!!)
-Atypical work week(maybe 50-70hrs)

At the end of the day, you have to ascertain what you can see yourself doing as YOUR career for the rest of your life, or at least into the foreseeable future. Both careers have a lot to offer, and they both have their own requisite sacrifices as well. Just a note of caution, I get the sneaking suspicion that many people(not all) waiver between the two because of the perceived level of prestige that one might receive being a DO versus a DPT. I also believe that the money is a HUGE influence as well. Ask yourself what do you value, and you also have to decide what future endeavors you might want to attain i.e. wife, multiple children, world travel, etc. I, too, was in a similar position. I had to ask the advice of family members(2 MDs). I did my clinical observations for PT and really saw myself doing it. It takes a little soul searching and a lot of honesty! I have vast interests in the human body/condition that may exceed the TYPICAL scope of practice for DPTs, but I know that knowledge will serve its purpose throughout my career.

Bottom Line: Do what is BEST for YOU!! Be honest and realistic about what you want from a career and life outside of that particular career!

 

[One More Rep]

I am in your shoes as well. I am 31 and making a career change to PT. I am the overly-analytical type, so I have done some major research before making this decision. Yes, tuition is expensive, but there are options to reduce the debt load.

1. Cut your expenses NOW. Start saving every penny you can spare. Live somewhere cheaper, move back in with Mom, etc. As they say, live like a student now or live like a student later!

2. Rally around the legislation to add PT to the National Health Service Corps loan repayment program. This is the single most important action that every PT student should take to significantly reduce debt-load in the future. If the legislation passes, and I hope to God that it does before I graduate, then you have the opportunity to serve for 2-5 years in a underserved area (rural or inner city) and have $60,000-170,000 of your student debt paid off. Those are staggering numbers! I would do this in a heartbeat if it was an option. Write your Congressman or Congresswoman. If marriage therapists are included in this program, PTs should be as well!
http://nhsc.hrsa.gov/loanrepayment/

3. Apply for every scholarship out there. It takes time and effort to hunt them down, but every dollar counts!

4. Find a job with tuition repayment/loan forgiveness incentives. There are plenty of them out there! I have seen some jobs that offer up to $40,000 in student loan repayment. These are the only jobs I am applying for upon graduation.

5. Look into the SRCOSTEP program offered by the U.S. Public Health Service Commissioned Corps. Basically, they pay you a salary during your last year of PT school (~$2655/month) and you commit to working for them for twice the time they have paid you. So, if they pay you for 8 months, you commit to 16 months of service after graduation. There are job opportunities in various settings all over the U.S. The benefits are military, so that includes tax breaks, free health care, housing and food stipend, the whole works. I am not sure how often they select PT students for the program, but they definitely include them in the process. Check out the website: http://www.usphs.gov/student/srcostep_faq.aspx

I hope this gives you some encouragement. Good luck!

 

[TheOx777]

I am in your shoes as well. I am 31 and making a career change to PT. I am the overly-analytical type, so I have done some major research before making this decision. Yes, tuition is expensive, but there are options to reduce the debt load.

1. Cut your expenses NOW. Start saving every penny you can spare. Live somewhere cheaper, move back in with Mom, etc. As they say, live like a student now or live like a student later!

2. Rally around the legislation to add PT to the National Health Service Corps loan repayment program. This is the single most important action that every PT student should take to significantly reduce debt-load in the future. If the legislation passes, and I hope to God that it does before I graduate, then you have the opportunity to serve for 2-5 years in a under served area (rural or inner city) and have $60,000-170,000 of your student debt paid off. Those are staggering numbers! I would do this in a heartbeat if it was an option. Write your Congressman or Congresswoman. If marriage therapists are included in this program, PTs should be as well!
http://nhsc.hrsa.gov/loanrepayment/

3. Apply for every scholarship out there. It takes time and effort to hunt them down, but every dollar counts!

4. Find a job with tuition repayment/loan forgiveness incentives. There are plenty of them out there! I have seen some jobs that offer up to $40,000 in student loan repayment. These are the only jobs I am applying for upon graduation.

5. Look into the SRCOSTEP program offered by the U.S. Public Health Service Commissioned Corps. Basically, they pay you a salary during your last year of PT school (~$2655/month) and you commit to working for them for twice the time they have paid you. So, if they pay you for 8 months, you commit to 16 months of service after graduation. There are job opportunities in various settings all over the U.S. The benefits are military, so that includes tax breaks, free health care, housing and food stipend, the whole works. I am not sure how often they select PT students for the program, but they definitely include them in the process. Check out the website: http://www.usphs.gov/student/srcostep_faq.aspx

I hope this gives you some encouragement. Good luck!

I couldn't have said this better. There are option out there to curb the load of debt you incur from graduate school. I also know the Obama Administration made some adjustments to how you pay back federal loan payment. The programs are called Income-Based Repayment(IBR), Income-Contingent Repayment(ICR), and Public Service Loan Forgiveness(PSLF). I think current and future DPT students should be allowed to enroll in the PSLF. You would have to work for 10 years(120 Loan payments) at a non-profit or other stipulated agency and you debt would be TOTALLY repaid after that time. You would essentially be able to take off 10-20 years of repaying loans.

These types of programs are invaluable to us as health care students, but they are really invaluable to all students. Just another two cents!

 

[jbizzle]

4. Find a job with tuition repayment/loan forgiveness incentives. There are plenty of them out there! I have seen some jobs that offer up to $40,000 in student loan repayment. These are the only jobs I am applying for upon graduation.

Nice! This is all I will be looking for also. I wonder if these are rare though. When I first joined the forum I brought this topic up and no one seemed to know much of it.

Shenandoah, let see 99 Cr x $720 that's ~$72,000 total. Sounds pretty expensive again.
http://www.su.edu/admission/E2B6CA8F74224CEE84BD023B6AD7ED64.asp
http://www.su.edu/health/B0DB4134C6B04C64BF13E48CCE6D0B5A.asp

Do you guys really think ~$72k is too much? It's somewhere in the range of a starting PT salary.

 

[johncronejr]

Do you guys really think ~$72k is too much? It's somewhere in the range of a starting PT salary.

I don't think it's too much. A career with great job security that pays approx. the same a year that the school will cost. Sounds like a deal to me!

 

[TheOx777]

Nice! This is all I will be looking for also. I wonder if these are rare though. When I first joined the forum I brought this topic up and no one seemed to know much of it.


Do you guys really think ~$72k is too much? It's somewhere in the range of a starting PT salary.

Bizzle,

It may be too much(at least in IMHO). It really depends on how you look at it. John brings up a good point though. You probably could start making that much money as an entry level DPT, and there is great potential to make 10-30K more than that with experience. Is it too much? Yes. Is it worth the financial sacrifice? Probably a double YES!!!

Also, remember those numbers(Shenandoah) are JUST tuition. You add in 3 years of cost of living, books, uniforms, clinical internship travel, etc and you are looking at 30-40K more added to you base tuition. So even for a cheaper program(those in the 50-70K range) you are still going to leave with 80-100K in debt if you get no other financial assistance. Nature of the Beast!

 

[hefe]

Do you guys really think ~$72k is too much? It's somewhere in the range of a starting PT salary.

More ramblings, not trying to derail your thread NATO.

Possibly not, I think its manageable. The program looks solid enough, I'm not sold in its location.

In all honesty, one of the schools I'm looking at costs that much and it's in my top 3 so far (out of state). We'll see if it get in over the next few months.

However, I'm somewhat 'blessed' to have 2-3 quality, medium-large state programs that cost 50,000 or less. Hard to go wrong.

However, what you are comfortable is quite debatable. Why do people choose the large screen 70" flatscreen over the 40" when arguably the 40" is more optimal for their living room setup? It's a state of mind.

I indirectly know an undergrad alum PT who recently graduated top of her class at USC with 120,000+ debt. You can tell, however, she "loves" her job working in sports med rehab at a large state university. She had to move back from CA to her parents to keep afloat. But, again she loved her time at USC and the current job, so it's "worth it". So, I guess she's making sacrifices I wouldn't want to make since sports med isn't my thing. Does that mean her way is inherently better/worse? Nope, just a different approach.

I have many non-professional goals that don't involve a "standard" life while in my 20's . Flexibility and the ability to live and work where I want is a dream of mine. To me, my non-professional hobbies will always be truly more satisfying than most any decent paying job I can think. Having a 30K-40K difference in tuition, is 1-2 years that I don't have to sacrifice my salary to pay down debt while paying all other living expenses. I want to be able to afford to do all the traveling and adventure hobbies I've always dreamed while being unable to afford as a student. My young 20's body only lasts so long. To me life only has more responsibilities as I age, turning 30 seems to be a societal turning point at least. Life to me should get more rewarding as you age, I'm not trying to hold myself back.

I want to enjoy my job, and not have one that I'm constantly looking at the clock to be out. A profession can be a part of my life, but I don't want it to be wholly what define me. Free Time to do as you please is the greatest luxury one can have in this complex, demanding world.

 

[DOctorJay]

PA school would be cheaper, shorter, and you'll make more when you graduate. That being said PT is a unique and wonderful field.

 

[NATO]

PA school would be cheaper, shorter, and you'll make more when you graduate. That being said PT is a unique and wonderful field.

This is all true, but all the PA programs that I've looked at require at least a couple of hundered hours of direct patient care. I might have the 4.0 GPA with pre-reqs, but it's going to take more than a perfect pre-req GPA to be competitve against applicants that are nurses, PTs, OTs, EMTs, etc. and have hundereds (if not thousands) of hours of direct patient care experience. I might have gotten away with just that about 5 or 6 years ago when PA wasn't the "hot" healthcare job to get into (it's been on the Top 10 best careers lists for multiple years now), but those days are over.

Another healthcare occupation that I started to just recently consider (as recently as 2 days ago) is a nurse practitoner job. They make roughly the same salary as a PA and, if you already earned a bachelors degree, then you can take a 3-year accelerated program. Also, the NP admissions/pre-req standards do not seem to be as rigorus as PT adminisions/pre-req standards and NPs make more of a salary than PTs on average....dare I say much more. Also, the few NP programs that I just started to look into require no shadowing hours or direct-patient care hours. I'm looking specifically at NPs in the acute rehab setting and trying to figure out the difference with it and acute PT setting.

If I do indeed go the PT route, then I will make (much) less of a salary starting out than what I currently make in my IT position (I've been in IT for 7 years now). However, it's true what they say...if you aren't happy with what you do, then no amount of money is going to make you fulfilled in life....at least I found that out for myself the hard way. So I'm really going to ignore what my head says and try to listen to my heart the second time around. I'll end up shadowing PTs and NPs to get a feel for where I truly will be happy regardless of the salary difference. I can't wait to start my PT shadowing hours next month so that I can get a much better understanding of the occupation.

 

[NATO]

More ramblings, not trying to derail your thread NATO.

No problem at all! I've enjoyed everyone's feedback.

Flexibility and the ability to live and work where I want is a dream of mine. To me, my non-professional hobbies will always be truly more satisfying than most any decent paying job I can think. Having a 30K-40K difference in tuition, is 1-2 years that I don't have to sacrifice my salary to pay down debt while paying all other living expenses. I want to be able to afford to do all the traveling and adventure hobbies I've always dreamed while being unable to afford as a student. My young 20's body only lasts so long. To me life only has more responsibilities as I age, turning 30 seems to be a societal turning point at least. Life to me should get more rewarding as you age, I'm not trying to hold myself back.

I want to enjoy my job, and not have one that I'm constantly looking at the clock to be out. A profession can be a part of my life, but I don't want it to be wholly what define me. Free Time to do as you please is the greatest luxury one can have in this complex, demanding world.

You took the words right out of my mouth! I wish I could go back 10 years and tell my 22-year old self what I know now.

 

[mtm34]

If following CNN is your thing- CNN Money just rated their top jobs for 2010. PA was 2nd and PT was 4th, I'm gonna go ahead and say you can't go wrong with either right now. Or you could always give up the whole health thing and be a software architect (#1).

 

[jess818]

TheOx-

any tips of where and how to look for scholarships? i've been using FastWeb but not really getting anywhere with it....