Hello! 2024 PCAT and applicant here

[zell4465]

Hello,

I am coming back to the fold after a ten year hiatus. I successfully repeated a few pre-reqs to replace some C's with A's. I have been prepping with Kaplan and Dr. Collins books for the PCAT since June. I did not realize the PCAT was being retired until recently, so I now plan to take the October and January PCAT. I am hoping to score near a 75/80 one of the attempts which is significantly higher than my first three attempts over ten years ago. Other than my materials, and time invested, if anyone has any sort of mentoring advice for significant performance on the PCAT please share. Wishing everyone in this forum good fortune.

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[gyngyn]

Welcome back!

 

[zell4465]

Thank you. May I ask if you are familiar with any PCAT study tip threads? Or anyone that has posted any form of mastering tips for it?

 

[gyngyn]

I'll move your post to the PCAT forum to see if anyone has tips.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

I think a run through the archive would help. Just throwing out tips won't be that useful unless there is something specific.

 

[BC_89]

One thing I would strongly consider is to make a list of schools you're interested in and at least verify if any of them will even look at your PCAT score as part of the overall process. As you've mentioned, January 2024 is the final chapter of the exam, and the majority of programs have already stated that they wont even consider the PCAT as part of the overall interview/scoring of applicants (with the remaining making it optional with no mention of how much weight it would have on school admission).

I would also strongly urge you to not plan on taking it for both October + January. It seems you're trying to make up for a low/subpar GPA, but the fact of the matter still stands - if you have to take what was once considered a required entrance exam for admission on multiple occasions, then it would reflect poorly on what that says about you as a pharmacy candidate. The competition for admission 10 years ago was more challenging than it is now (hence, more schools with little regard to the PCAT). I would keep this in mind -

Otherwise, Kaplan is the material to become familiarized with the topics to study, while Dr. Collins actually tests you on material that (one way or another) had been asked on past PCAT exams. If you truly test yourself on Dr. Collins while getting the majority correct with little effort, then I would say you're on the right track. Just be sure you're applying to certain programs that will consider the exam, otherwise it truly is a waste of resources and time at this point.

 

[zell4465]

One thing I would strongly consider is to make a list of schools you're interested in and at least verify if any of them will even look at your PCAT score as part of the overall process. As you've mentioned, January 2024 is the final chapter of the exam, and the majority of programs have already stated that they wont even consider the PCAT as part of the overall interview/scoring of applicants (with the remaining making it optional with no mention of how much weight it would have on school admission).

I would also strongly urge you to not plan on taking it for both October + January. It seems you're trying to make up for a low/subpar GPA, but the fact of the matter still stands - if you have to take what was once considered a required entrance exam for admission on multiple occasions, then it would reflect poorly on what that says about you as a pharmacy candidate. The competition for admission 10 years ago was more challenging than it is now (hence, more schools with little regard to the PCAT). I would keep this in mind -

Otherwise, Kaplan is the material to become familiarized with the topics to study, while Dr. Collins actually tests you on material that (one way or another) had been asked on past PCAT exams. If you truly test yourself on Dr. Collins while getting the majority correct with little effort, then I would say you're on the right track. Just be sure you're applying to certain programs that will consider the exam, otherwise it truly is a waste of resources and time at this point.

Thank you for your input, it is sincerely appreciated. I do not know what you personally consider a 'low' or 'subpar' GPA. Many have said a GPA below a 3.5 is 'subpar', so I will post my 'subpar' GPA which is 3.43. I have been advised to take the exam is because I have been out of school for over 6 years now. This is the feedback I have received from every program I have spoken to. In spite of the fact it is being discontinued, they want to see where I 'measure up'. So far I have spoken to 13 programs. If I am unable to have a strong performance, then I may be out of the running for the rest of my life unless they look at the 4 classes (calc 1, chm2, biochm, eng1) I repeated (previously had C's) and received 'A's' in and take that into account as recent success and performance. There is a couple more I could repeat, however I am focused on the PCAT at this point. Some programs will not even consider me for pharmacy school because I have been out of school for over five years.

I am studying the Kaplan book, some things are familiar, some are not. I have not made my way to Dr. Collins materials or questions, I can only assume that since I do not nail every question correctly the first time in Kaplan's book that I am on the weak side. I have to review the sample questions at the end of each chapter twice to ensure I understand why I miss certain questions. I can assume if I attempted Dr. Collins questions it would be roughly the same experience. My understanding it not to memorize, but to ensure I understand how and why the answers are what they are. I would think most students went through some level of hit and miss with the questions before they became comfortable with them. Would it be logical to assume the more I practice those questions, the better I could perform?

 

[zell4465]

I'll move your post to the PCAT forum to see if anyone has tips.

Pardon my question, can you link me to this particular forum? I have been searching but am unsure which one you would say is the exact PCAT forum. Thanks.

 

[gyngyn]

Pardon my question, can you link me to this particular forum? I have been searching but am unsure which one you would say is the exact PCAT forum. Thanks.

This thread is now located in the PCAT forum.

 

[PharmtoCS]

Welcome back.

Please do pay attention to the job market that has changed drastically over the last 10 years during your hiatus, mostly for the worse. I would absolutely avoid pharmacy with the current job market, work conditions, pay and the crushing student debt required to get into the profession. Pharmacy schools are desperate for applicants and will most likely accept you with a single digit PCAT score provided that you also qualify for $200k+ in student loans.

There are much better professions, i.e. computer programming, finance, accounting, engineering, the trades, etc. that pay as well as pharmacy if not better, offer far better job conditions and prospects, and do not require you to take out $200k+ in loans and spend an additional 4 years of your life in school.

 

[zell4465]

Welcome back.

Please do pay attention to the job market that has changed drastically over the last 10 years during your hiatus, mostly for the worse. I would absolutely avoid pharmacy with the current job market, work conditions, pay and the crushing student debt required to get into the profession. Pharmacy schools are desperate for applicants and will most likely accept you with a single digit PCAT score provided that you also qualify for $200k+ in student loans.

There are much better professions, i.e. computer programming, finance, accounting, engineering, the trades, etc. that pay as well as pharmacy if not better, offer far better job conditions and prospects, and do not require you to take out $200k+ in loans and spend an additional 4 years of your life in school.

Thank you for your input and candor, these are trends I have noticed in some areas of schools and work force.

 

[BC_89]

Thank you for your input, it is sincerely appreciated. I do not know what you personally consider a 'low' or 'subpar' GPA. Many have said a GPA below a 3.5 is 'subpar', so I will post my 'subpar' GPA which is 3.43. I have been advised to take the exam is because I have been out of school for over 6 years now. This is the feedback I have received from every program I have spoken to. In spite of the fact it is being discontinued, they want to see where I 'measure up'. So far I have spoken to 13 programs. If I am unable to have a strong performance, then I may be out of the running for the rest of my life unless they look at the 4 classes (calc 1, chm2, biochm, eng1) I repeated (previously had C's) and received 'A's' in and take that into account as recent success and performance. There is a couple more I could repeat, however I am focused on the PCAT at this point. Some programs will not even consider me for pharmacy school because I have been out of school for over five years.

I am studying the Kaplan book, some things are familiar, some are not. I have not made my way to Dr. Collins materials or questions, I can only assume that since I do not nail every question correctly the first time in Kaplan's book that I am on the weak side. I have to review the sample questions at the end of each chapter twice to ensure I understand why I miss certain questions. I can assume if I attempted Dr. Collins questions it would be roughly the same experience. My understanding it not to memorize, but to ensure I understand how and why the answers are what they are. I would think most students went through some level of hit and miss with the questions before they became comfortable with them. Would it be logical to assume the more I practice those questions, the better I could perform?

I'd be interested to know what those 13 programs are that suggested the PCAT (I ask because the reason it is being discontinued is because it does not dictate performance in pharmacy school). If you're willing to move in different regions of the country and meet the pre-reqs without an expiration of credit, then I'd still argue that doing the PCAT won't give you an edge. Are you trying to apply to top schools (Chapel Hill vs American University of Health Sciences)?

Just to be clear, for the programs that do NOT require the PCAT, it would be considered an unfair scale to include it as your overall performance when it's advertised as not being weighted for applicants. Just be sure you're applying to programs that still consider it to some degree.

With that, Kaplan will be your best friend. When you feel you have the foundational knowledge, do Dr. Collins and see how you score. You should also take the practice mock exam to see where you stand. I would also strongly consider only sitting for the PCAT one time (not two).

Here's an example of how the scoring works

2016 - PCAT Technical Manual

 

[zell4465]

I'd be interested to know what those 13 programs are that suggested the PCAT (I ask because the reason it is being discontinued is because it does not dictate performance in pharmacy school). If you're willing to move in different regions of the country and meet the pre-reqs without an expiration of credit, then I'd still argue that doing the PCAT won't give you an edge. Are you trying to apply to top schools (Chapel Hill vs American University of Health Sciences)?

Just to be clear, for the programs that do NOT require the PCAT, it would be considered an unfair scale to include it as your overall performance when it's advertised as not being weighted for applicants. Just be sure you're applying to programs that still consider it to some degree.

With that, Kaplan will be your best friend. When you feel you have the foundational knowledge, do Dr. Collins and see how you score. You should also take the practice mock exam to see where you stand. I would also strongly consider only sitting for the PCAT one time (not two).

Here's an example of how the scoring works

2016 - PCAT Technical Manual

Happy to oblige you,

UF, USF, NSU, LECOM, PBAU, LARKIN, FAMU to name a few. I am willing to move. I have not connected with every single pharmacy college in the united states to check on expiration since I have not had any success with anyone telling me otherwise.

I want you to know that I completely agree with your reasoning and will pose no counter argument. If they claim they no longer require the PCAT then to force someone to take it that has recently repeated coursework with A's is bogus. No argument boss.

I have gone to the extent of repeating 5 classes, all of which are pre-reqs and scored A's. Those should count as recent success as well as raising my low gpa to a subpar 3.43. Yet, they still want a PCAT. I have even been told if I make no attempt then I will be compared to others that have more recent transcripts and will always be at the bottom of the pool at best.

Essentially, they threaten me with eternal rejection to sit for the PCAT and score near a 70. The frustration is real, and I wish I could go back 10-12 years and slap myself for not spending hours in the library studying and asking my professors how to properly think and understand the material as opposed to memorizing it. This lesson was learned in graduate school.

I am making my way through Kaplan's book as diligently as possible, yet I doubt I am supposed to memorize every single thing. I think the exams are mostly conceptual is that correct? As well as being a borderline IQ test? I also have Dr. Collins, I was going to read their stuff too. However after I finish the Kaplan book, I planned on spending more time working PCAT questions than just sitting around reading concepts. Is this a wiser approach in your opinion?

If you have anymore sagely advice, I am happy to network with you and take whatever lecture you are willing to dish out.

-T

 

[RXDOC1986]

Welcome to the profession, wishing you the best in your pursuit of Pharmacist status.

Again, read through this thread, cannot figure out why you are chasing PCAT, when most every institution is dropping it? Personal satisfaction/accomplishment?

With pharmacy school enrollment falling (off a cliff), anyone with a pulse should be able to get in!
Now I know there is some (tiny) value in attending a top school, 10-20 yrs down the line, no hiring manager is going to care where you went to school, just having the license will matter, nowhere on my license does it say where I went to school or what my GPA was (thank God)

 

[zell4465]

Welcome to the profession, wishing you the best in your pursuit of Pharmacist status.

Again, read through this thread, cannot figure out why you are chasing PCAT, when most every institution is dropping it? Personal satisfaction/accomplishment?

With pharmacy school enrollment falling (off a cliff), anyone with a pulse should be able to get in!
Now I know there is some (tiny) value in attending a top school, 10-20 yrs down the line, no hiring manager is going to care where you went to school, just having the license will matter, nowhere on my license does it say where I went to school or what my GPA was (thank God)

Thank you for your input and candor. If you read through the thread you will find the answers to your proposed queries.

 

[BC_89]

I think the exams are mostly conceptual is that correct? As well as being a borderline IQ test?

Conceptual yes -

As for borderline IQ test, I am not sure what that means: Nothing is subjective about the exam, its more or less objective organization. Examples could be arrow pushing in organic chemistry, specific math properties in a specific order, general biology properties and their manifestations (phenotype/alleles), and general biological mechanisms (ATP formation, DNA vs RNA, transcription vs translation, rate limiting steps, etc).

I also have Dr. Collins, I was going to read their stuff too. However after I finish the Kaplan book, I planned on spending more time working PCAT questions than just sitting around reading concepts. Is this a wiser approach in your opinion?

Dr. Collins is actual PCAT questions. If I recall, I remember getting the exact (if not very similar) questions by practicing out the Dr. Collins material. However, you want to use Kaplan to get the general understanding in order to derive the answers from Dr. Collins. The question format and set up is exactly duplicated by Dr. Collins material.

 

[zell4465]

Conceptual yes -

As for borderline IQ test, I am not sure what that means: Nothing is subjective about the exam, its more or less objective organization. Examples could be arrow pushing in organic chemistry, specific math properties in a specific order, general biology properties and their manifestations (phenotype/alleles), and general biological mechanisms (ATP formation, DNA vs RNA, transcription vs translation, rate limiting steps, etc).


Dr. Collins is actual PCAT questions. If I recall, I remember getting the exact (if not very similar) questions by practicing out the Dr. Collins material. However, you want to use Kaplan to get the general understanding in order to derive the answers from Dr. Collins. The question format and set up is exactly duplicated by Dr. Collins material.

Thank you, this is exact guidance I have been searching for. Not necessarily for validation, for continued efforts on where and how to apply my time for October 18 and Jan 6. Likely January will go more smoothly than October. Here is to hoping I perform well.

 

[PharmtoCS]

Thank you for your input, it is sincerely appreciated. I do not know what you personally consider a 'low' or 'subpar' GPA. Many have said a GPA below a 3.5 is 'subpar', so I will post my 'subpar' GPA which is 3.43. I have been advised to take the exam is because I have been out of school for over 6 years now. This is the feedback I have received from every program I have spoken to. In spite of the fact it is being discontinued, they want to see where I 'measure up'. So far I have spoken to 13 programs. If I am unable to have a strong performance, then I may be out of the running for the rest of my life unless they look at the 4 classes (calc 1, chm2, biochm, eng1) I repeated (previously had C's) and received 'A's' in and take that into account as recent success and performance. There is a couple more I could repeat, however I am focused on the PCAT at this point. Some programs will not even consider me for pharmacy school because I have been out of school for over five years.

Thank you for your input and candor, these are trends I have noticed in some areas of schools and work force.

So have you actually noticed change the trends in the areas of schools and work force?