Help/Advice for Canadian attending Ivy UG, looking at MD/PhD

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Patterned_illuminator

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I have been working in research labs since Summer 2011, but I dunno if HS years count. Regardless, in terms of my undergraduate career, I have been working in a lab since before freshman year (was there for 2 years in HS), and only took a break, once I arrived on campus, my first term freshman year. I rejoined 2nd term and have worked there since. The mentor is very nice and supportive. Hoping for posters/something - project is long termish.

I want to apply to MD-PhD programs...I have met with my school's premed advisors multiple times and I have found them to be helpful but I am looking for additional insight.

I've started compiling a list of US schools that take Canadians that I'd be interested in, so far I've:
  • Harvard
  • UChicago
  • WashU
  • Weill Cornell
  • Columbia
  • UPenn
  • Dartmouth
  • Yale
  • Northwestern
  • Mt. Sinai
  • Vanderbilt
Are there any others I should add/consider? Edit: I just found an AAMC list of MD/PhD programs listing whether they take internationals or not, which has been really helpful, and I'm planning on subbing to MSAR too. Is there a good way of evaluating them?

Secondly, I have heard that Canadian schools tend to be prejudiced against kids who went to the US for undergrad, at least for straight med-school; is that true also for MD-PhD? My app is not strong for MD only, I think, but I might reorient to MD/PhD for there, if they're less biased on that end and I like the research. (Considering UBC - I'm OOP)
Finally: is there anything I can do to strengthen my application? The advisors just say keep on going/working hard, but I find it hard to believe that that is it.

Thank you so much :) I really love research and am aiming for either an academic career, or potentially biotech.

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Harvard says they might accept an international with funding but they really don't, even though they give interviews. The affiliate MD/PhD program is an option (partial funding, kind of a risk how much funding you will get) but it's up to you whether the secondary fee is worth it. Or whether you want to try for that (IMO) imaginary MD/PhD slot for an international student.

Here are some other good places to apply:
- Mayo
- UT Southwestern
- Baylor
- Emory

Since as an international it's good to have a broad list here are some others to think about:
- Boston University (their funding isn't very good though so it's up to you)
- Albert Einstein
- Robert Wood Johnson

Lack of shadowing will hurt you so just get it done before applying.

Canadian schools aren't prejudiced against Canadians who went to the US for undergrad. However, it tends to be harder to get a high GPA in the US so I think that is why the success rate is lower. You should be competitive since your GPA is pretty good, especially if you take into account the weighting formulas at Canadian universities (most drop one year or something if you took a full course load each year and are applying in senior year or later). The University of Toronto has a great MD/PhD program. Some of the others do not have good funding, so take a look and decide whether it would be worth it. You would be just as competitive for MD applications after the weighting formula in Canada. If I was going to stay in Canada, I would probably just do an MD and do a PhD during residency (Clinician Investigator Programs) as the funding works out better that way.
 
Your list looks good and I would agree with soporific's suggested additions. I also think that Harvard's application is essentially a waste of money but I know of international students who have interviewed there so it's always worth a try. It's definitely a good idea to have a broader list just to make sure you land somewhere. You should also try to aim for schools that have at least 2-3 faculty members you would be interested in working with. UTSW has a great campus and lots of money, so definitely apply there. BU is also international friendly but are not fully funded. I would avoid Dartmouth's program because they had some funding issues a few years ago and they might still have plans to cancel the program whole. I also think Yale stopped accepting internationals but these things can change from year to year. Definitely check every school's website and/or e-mail them for the most up-to-date policy before you apply.

Unfortunately, as an international, you have to take what schools report with a grain of salt. Many of them say they will "consider" international applicants but haven't matriculated any in the past few years. This is why MSAR would be your best resource to see how genuine these statements are. One thing I know is that graduating from a top US UG will help you at some of these programs -> on each of my interview days, I was the only person coming from a Canadian UG.

Based on what I've seen this cycle, I think that Penn and WUStL are the best options for international students because they have the biggest programs and most funding. Keep in mind that the school will have to use their private funds to bankroll your training. However, these 2 schools also have very high MCAT averages so you need to focus on getting >95th percentile. Your GPA is great, but you can start looking at these school requirements and make sure you have them covered (English, humanities, etc.). Otherwise, make sure you have around 100 hours of clinical volunteering and a few shadowing experiences. Teaching experiences will also be good for you and support your interest in academic medicine/running a lab. Great LORs are also essential and require good long-term relationships that you can work on with your mentors/supervisors.

As for Canadian schools, I don't think they would be biased against US graduates. I don't agree that it is "easier to get a top GPA" at Canadian schools, but the bar for MD admissions is definitely set higher here because of a relatively large number of applicants for much fewer spots than US MD. Some schools do have weighting formulas that mostly serve to raise everyone's GPA. I got accepted at both UofT and McGill MD/PhD programs with a 3.7 cGPA so I think you have a good chance. My issue with the Canadian programs is they lacked the integration that US MSTPs have, it mostly feels like you are just sandwiching a PhD between the MD years. US programs have been around for much longer and are much better funded, whereas CIHR just completely cut funding to Canadian dual degree programs. Canadian programs only provide stipend and do not cover tuition so you will need other sources of funding. On the other hand, you will have a good shot at getting funded by national grant agencies since you are a Canadian citizen. I think there's a lot of great research going on here, especially at UBC/UofT/McGill, and it's worth applying if you're interested or have personal reasons for coming back. There are definitely some good PSTP options here, especially at UofT where you can get the PhD during residency, but I feel that will be an even more accelerated PhD than what you get in MD/PhD programs (good/bad thing depending on what you are aiming for).
 
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Forgot to add the University of Virginia - this is another good program to apply to.
 
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Thank you both so much for your answers! I had no idea that Harvard was like that, but I'm glad to learn. My (American) friend who recently went through MD/PhD interviews wasn't a big fan of Harvard either, so I'll take that into consideration.

I will certainly research the schools you both have suggested over the summer. I do know one guy doing the CI program, so maybe I can try reaching out to him. Honestly, at the end of the day, I want to be a really good scientist/thinker/expert, so I'm certainly open to other pathways. My interest in MD/PhD was mostly because of the funding. I do suppose that in Canada, tuition is substantially less. I'm not sure where I want to live permanently, and I'm not sure I'll have much choice in it anyways - the vibe I've gotten is that you primarily follow the funding, so...

However, it tends to be harder to get a high GPA in the US so I think that is why the success rate is lower. You should be competitive since your GPA is pretty good, especially if you take into account the weighting formulas at Canadian universities (most drop one year or something if you took a full course load each year and are applying in senior year or later). The University of Toronto has a great MD/PhD program. Some of the others do not have good funding, so take a look and decide whether it would be worth it. You would be just as competitive for MD applications after the weighting formula in Canada. If I was going to stay in Canada, I would probably just do an MD and do a PhD during residency (Clinician Investigator Programs) as the funding works out better that way.

Huh, that's really nice to hear. My premed advisors specifically said that they didn't have good experiences with Canadians applying back at home, but the GPA craze is fairly intense back at home and premed requirements are definitely tough (our intro bio class is ostensibly the hardest in the US) + we have a very extensive core curriculum, which means you can't really focus in. I will definitely give it a shot. I'm glad to hear about UofT - my HS PI with whom I'm quite close with did his residency at UofT and *hated* it, but I will look into it. I've been considering UBC and some other places as well.

Based on what I've seen this cycle, I think that Penn and WUStL are the best options for international students because they have the biggest programs and most funding. Keep in mind that the school will have to use their private funds to bankroll your training. However, these 2 schools also have very high MCAT averages so you need to focus on getting >95th percentile. Your GPA is great, but you can start looking at these school requirements and make sure you have them covered (English, humanities, etc.). Otherwise, make sure you have around 100 hours of clinical volunteering and a few shadowing experiences. Teaching experiences will also be good for you and support your interest in academic medicine/running a lab. Great LORs are also essential and require good long-term relationships that you can work on with your mentors/supervisors.

As for Canadian schools, I don't think they would be biased against US graduates. I don't agree that it is "easier to get a top GPA" at Canadian schools, but the bar for MD admissions is definitely set higher here because of a relatively large number of applicants for much fewer spots than US MD. Some schools do have weighting formulas that mostly serve to raise everyone's GPA. I got accepted at both UofT and McGill MD/PhD programs with a 3.7 cGPA so I think you have a good chance. My issue with the Canadian programs is they lacked the integration that US MSTPs have, it mostly feels like you are just sandwiching a PhD between the MD years. US programs have been around for much longer and are much better funded, whereas CIHR just completely cut funding to Canadian dual degree programs. Canadian programs only provide stipend and do not cover tuition so you will need other sources of funding. On the other hand, you will have a good shot at getting funded by national grant agencies since you are a Canadian citizen. I think there's a lot of great research going on here, especially at UBC/UofT/McGill, and it's worth applying if you're interested or have personal reasons for coming back. There are definitely some good PSTP options here, especially at UofT where you can get the PhD during residency, but I feel that will be an even more accelerated PhD than what you get in MD/PhD programs (good/bad thing depending on what you are aiming for).

Hmm - that is also exciting! I hope I don't sound awful, but I was at a certain institution in my province for a few years and I basically spent all my time in high school just researching (combination of having done the courses early + proximity), and I was not impressed by the overall quality of research at all. There were definitely a few stand out labs, but I definitely heard of my share of unethical practices from people I trusted, which is why I (perhaps irrationally) have harboured some degree of bias against Canadian programs. That being said - 1 school is definitely not representative, and I'm much more open now, and just because a good school has good research overall, doesn't mean it has a lab that interests you. My bigger concern is actually admissions, just because of what I heard from the advisors, and because literally 80% of people I know from high school are premed.

I was appalled by the CIHR cuts - I was hoping that under Trudeau things might change, but well...No tuition coverage - does that mean that you have to pay for the MD too? If so, ouch - the CI program does seem a lot better then. I've definitely heard the thing about integration, too, and that is a concern to me. UBC seems like it does it well, but I am out of province, so....we'll see.

I'm going to try for clinical volunteering throughout the summer/next year. I have no contacts for shadowing, since I'm very far from home (Albertan here), so I'm not sure how to get that started - maybe I'll reach out to the pre-med people again. I am definitely interested in TA-ing, hopefully I do well enough in some of my courses that it'll be a viable option. I think my relationships are good, but we'll see. I'm going to start looking at MCAT stuff this summer, too. I'm 100% sure my humanities requirements will be met and beyond, because

Thank you both so, so much! I am incredibly grateful to both of you.
 
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Of course I can't speak to your friend's experience, but don't believe all the hype (positive or otherwise) you hear without visiting yourself. You may indeed be surprised.

My (American) friend who recently went through MD/PhD interviews wasn't a big fan of Harvard either, so I'll take that into consideration.

You should consider reaching out to alumni of your school and asking their opinions (see http://www.hms.harvard.edu/md_phd/student/current_trainees12.html)
 
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