HELP! Confused on licensure in NY......

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banta

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Just wondering how it is possible to do a residency in New York State from a school that isn't approved in NY? As far as I was told by Mr. Elkins at the NYS Medical Board, it would be considered a felony to do so. For example, I have heard of doctors from Spain and Russia matching in NY (non VA hospitals)??? Also, the SABA site lists residency matches in NY without having yet been approved by the state. Can someone please clear this up for me, I would surely appreciate it! All smiles.....Suzy :D

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Hi Suzy,

I think there must have been a misunderstanding between you and Mr. Elkins. Or you misinterpreted what he may have said? There must be thousands of IMG's in the State of New York currently, and they are not hiding either (like you pointed out, SABA match list and so on). The list of "NY Medical Board approved schools " is very short, six or so if I remember right, half of them Eastern European. Why these particular ones are approved? Beats me.

There is no problem for people from other schools in New York. However, there seems to be an issue with electives done in the State of New York during medical school. Why, I don't know, but the State of New York has a problem licensing people if they did more than 3 months of electives in the State of New York during med school, and their med school is not on that short list.

Also you don't have to get a state license during residency in NY.
 
Thanks for the reply. My particular inquiry is regarding residency. He did in fact write that a graduate from a school that was not on the "approved list" cannot perform more than 3 months of clinicals (during medical school) AND he went on to say that graduates from a foreign medical school not on the approved list are also ineligible for residency in the state of NY. However, they are able to apply for licensure if they meet the state requirements.

.... "I'm a doctor Jim, not a lawyer"...for all you Trekkies ;)

thanks for reading.....Suzy :)
 
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AND he went on to say that graduates from a foreign medical school not on the approved list are also ineligible for residency in the state of NY.

You might have misunderstood. As far as I know, an IMG that is ECFMG-certified is allowed to take on a residency in New York State regardless of whether the school s/he graduated from is on this "approved" list or whatever.

The "approved" list pertains to a student's ability to performing clinical clerkships, i.e. electives in New York State for more that three months, as SweetMD said.

There are tons of IMGs that are not from the "approved for more than 3 months of electives" schools completing residencies in NY state and I can virtually guarantee you that they are not felons because of this.

The only thing as an IMG in NYS is that you cannot get a full license until after you have completed 3 years of residency, so maybe this might limit you ability to moonlight, but given the limited workweek, I think the ability to do so has been curtailed in any case.

So there is really no reason to be alarmist.
 
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nychick,

I think that you are also mistaken a bit. As I understand it, the rules are as follows:

1. cannot do more than 3 months clinicals if school not approved unless done in a VA hospital.

2. Can do a residency, but is then inelligible for licensure if from unapproved school.

3. If appropriate amount of clinicals is done outside the state and residency is not done in the state, then you can be licensed no matter what school you are from so long as you have an ECFMG certificate and had 3 years post grad training in the US.

Banta,

as I was told by Mr. Elkins at the NYS Medical Board

I would trust the NYS medical board.
 
http://www.op.nysed.gov/article131.htm Education Law: Article 131, Medicine

http://www.op.nysed.gov/medforms.htm License Application Forms, Physician

I think you are almost right on number 1 (i.e. you don't need any extra paperwork if you are from those schools, if you aren't you need to get cleared by the Deprtment of Education by filling out additional forms), and really wrong on 2 & 3. In any case you have managed to freak me out enough so that now I have a call into the Office of the Professions, despite the fact that I think you are wrong. Congrats!

In addition to the law (link above and addressed below), a slew of anecdotal evidence (for one, there are tons of docs that are FMGs on my Unitedhealthcare's roster, and I bet you they wouldn't be approved if there were doing something untoward, and lots of IMGs working in the city, I'm sure they're not toiling away just like that, not caring if they can get licensed of not)suggests that you are wrong on the fact that licensure in NYS is limited to grads from those eight schools approved, as stated on the NYS board's site itself, approved by the New York State Education Department to allow students to complete more than 12 weeks of clinical clerkships in New York State.

St. George's University School of Medicine, St. George's, Grenada
Ross University School of Medicine, Roseau, Dominica
Fatima College of Medicine, Manila, Philippines
The Autonomous University of Guadalajara, Guadalajara, Mexico
International Health and Medicine Program, Ben Gurion University of the Negrev, Beer-Sheva, Israel
English Language Program, Medical University of Lublin, Lublin, Poland
English Language Program, Medical University of Silesia, Katowice, Poland
American University of the Caribbean, St. Martin, Netherland Antilles

If you read the law (see first link above) closely, nowhere does it refer to the list of schools approved for clerkships as a limit to licensure; instead it refers to medical schools located outside the United States which are recognized by the World Health Organization.

The relevant excerpt:
To qualify for a license as a physician, an applicant shall fulfill the following requirements:

Application: file an application with the department;
Education: have received an education, including a degree of doctor of medicine, "M.D.", or doctor of osteopathy, "D.O.", or equivalent degree in accordance with the commissioner's regulations;
Experience: have experience satisfactory to the board and in accordance with the commissioner's regulations;
Examination: pass an examination satisfactory to the board and in accordance with the commissioner's regulations;
Age: [...];
Citizenship or immigration status: be a United States citizen or an alien lawfully admitted for permanent residence in the United States; [...];
Character: ...; and
Fees: ...

§6528. Qualification of certain applicants for licensure.
USIMGs
Notwithstanding any other provisions of this article or any law to the contrary, an individual who at the time of his enrollment in a medical school outside the United States is a resident of the United States shall be eligible for licensure in this state if he has satisfied the requirements of subdivisions one, five, six, seven and eight (i.e. applied, age, citizenship or perm, resident, good moral character, and paid fees) of section sixty-five hundred twenty-four of this chapter and fulfill certain other requirements....

Importantly, a document granted by a medical school located outside the United States which is recognized by the World Health Organization issued after the completion of all the formal requirements of such foreign medical school except internship and/or social service shall, upon certification by the medical school in which such training was received of satisfactory completion by the person to whom such document was issued of the requirements listed in paragraph (3) of subdivision (a) of this section, be deemed the equivalent of a degree of doctor of medicine for purposes of licensure and practice as a physician in this State.

Nowhere in paragraph 3 sub a does it even mention those 8 schools.

Anyway, I'll stop my tirade now before I get even more livid by the obscene amount of disinformation promulgated in this thread.
 
nychick,

I think you misunderstood me. You can get licensed(full license, not temp. residency license) no matter what school you are from so long as you haven't done more than 12 weeks of clinicals or done your residency in NY. If you ARE from those eight schools, than you can do as many clinicals as you want and residency in NY as well as get licensed. There is no restriction on licensure as long as you get an ECFMG certificate. Those applications are fine and the laws posted are good, but that is not everything that goes into the decision. I suggest you call someone in the NY licensing office and speak to them. If you are really concerned speak to a supervisor. Let me know what he/she says, I am sure we are all interested.
 
OK, I just spoke to someone at the Office of the Professions licensing department and they said that the following is required for licensing in NY.

http://www.op.nysed.gov/medlic.htm

That means, in my case (peds), that you have to have finished residency and yes that residency can of course have taken place in New York--in any case it has to be ACGME-accredited. You must have passed Steps 1, 2, 3; you have to have ECFMG certificate; you have to get FCVS to collect all your info.

You can get licensed(full license, not temp. residency license) no matter what school you are from so long as you haven't done more than 12 weeks of clinicals or done your residency in NY.

There is nothing that says you can't be fully licensed if you did your residency in NYS.

In terms of the clerkships, the person I spoke to didn't even know what list of schools I was talking about; she told me "the clerkship department deals with that, it's a different area". So clearly you list, is is good for that, and only that--not having to jumpt through extra hoops to do more than 3 months of clerkships in NY.
 
OK, I got the latest from Doug Elkins, the big guy in charge of licensure in NYS :) Basically here it is:
1. If your school is on the list, you can do rotations for more than 12 weeks in NYS and also residency; if you decide to do so.
2. If your school is not on the list, you may do up to 12 weeks of rotations during med school.
3. Here's the big one...If your school is not on the list and as part of its curriculum requires that a student must complete more than 3 months outside of the country where it is chartered (for ex: any school where rotations are completed outside of their country) you may NOT completely a residency in the state of NY. However, you may still obtain licensure and you may complete up to 12 weeks of clerkships during medical school. If you go to medical school, for example, in Spain and do all your rotations and basic sciences in Spain, you can obtain residency in NYS.

Hopefully this cleared the air a bit. It did for me :)

:clap:
 
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Thank you banta:D
 
Hey guys,

I am PGY-2 resident from Europe, currently doing my residency here in New York. I would like to apply for a license here but - even after reading your thread - I am still confused...

I am a Permanent resident, so visa-issues are not a problem (and I did less than 12 weeks of clerkships here). However, do I really have to finish residency first before I am able to get an unrestricted license in NY state?

If that's the case: do you know any state boards in the US that have the least painful and also fastest application procedures in terms of obtaining a license during residency?

Any help would be really appreciated!

Many thanks,

T.
 
> do I really have to finish residency first before I am able to get an
> unrestricted license in NY state?

You don't.
You have to have three years of GME, the USMLE steps and permanent residency or citizenship for a license in NY (if you do IM or peds, this indeed means you have to finish residency).

All the stuff with 'approved schools' applies to the non-resident commercial medical schools that don't have teaching hospitals in their country of charter or location. If you went to school in a country and did all your clerkships in that country, you have nothing to worry about.

NY dept of education is a bit schizo when it comes to the commercial schools. You might not be eligible to do a residency, but you might be eligible for a full medical license later on (there are even a couple of licensed Spartan grads).
 
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