PhD/PsyD Help! information overload

[psycho.babble]

Hi all- new member here, so please excuse any redundancy in this post.

There appear to be numerous forums on this topic, but many are slightly convoluted or out-dated.

I am currently in the process of researching PsyD programs in California, but am open to relocating for the right program. However, I am reading a lot of differing opinions on the usefulness of a PsyD vs PhD, as I have the intention of pursuing a private practice with a degree in clinical psychology. Yes, I understand that I can get a masters, however I have always dreamt of obtaining a doctorate and feel this would increase my credibility in the field. Prior to reading numerous forums on this site I was advised by many that a PsyD was the right way to go for my career objectives, however, now I am not so sure. Additionally, I haven't heard many good things about PsyD programs located in California, with the exception of Pepperdine, PGSP/Stanford University Consortium, and the Wright Institute.

Instead of finding clarity on the direction I should take, instead I am left with many more questions and uncertainty.

Should I open myself up to a Clinical PhD in addition to looking into reputable PsyD programs? It is my understanding that a PhD has fewer costs associated with it, so that is a factor I am considering.

What, (if any) CA PsyD Programs would you all recommend? Should I overlook Alliant/Argosy/Chicago School?

I also understand that the CA psych job market is highly over-saturated....is a private practice something I can even strive for in today's market?

I apologize for the length of this post and I would really appreciate any insight anyone might be able to offer on these topics, thank you in advance!

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[Justanothergrad]

Yes, overlook the for profit schools (alliant, etc). Don't spend more time thinking about them that you already have.

Yes, open to the idea of s phd over a psyd unless you are specifically interested in debt as an outcome. Most PhD do clinical work, no matter what anyone tells you. I would encourage you to broadly consider all clinical/counseling programs that fit your interests. Besides costs, they have better outcomes (EPPP, internship match, etc) and don't have the stigma.

 

[psycho.babble]

Yes, overlook the for profit schools (alliant, etc). Don't spend more time thinking about them that you already have.

Yes, open to the idea of s phd over a psyd unless you are specifically interested in debt as an outcome. Most PhD do clinical work, no matter what anyone tells you. I would encourage you to broadly consider all clinical/counseling programs that fit your interests. Besides costs, they have better outcomes (EPPP, internship match, etc) and don't have the stigma.

Thank you for your advice! What stigma are you referring to?

 

[psych.meout]

Thank you for your advice! What stigma are you referring to?

The stigma that PsyD programs are not as rigorous and don't have the same level of education and training as PhD programs. It's not that there aren't any good PsyD programs or that there aren't any great psychologists with PsyDs, it just that there is a presumption about poor training and you'd basically have to be proving yourself to be an exception to the stereotype.

Regardless, you may want to reevaluate why you want a doctorate. You say that you want the "credibility" and it's a "dream" of yours, but your end goal in obtaining a doctorate is probably more important. You repeatedly state that you just want to do private practice clinical work, which you can do with a master's with marginal differences in income, but far less time and money.

 

[psycho.babble]

The stigma that PsyD programs are not as rigorous and don't have the same level of education and training as PhD programs. It's not that there aren't any good PsyD programs or that there aren't any great psychologists with PsyDs, it just that there is a presumption about poor training and you'd basically have to be proving yourself to be an exception to the stereotype.

Regardless, you may want to reevaluate why you want a doctorate. You say that you want the "credibility" and it's a "dream" of yours, but your end goal in obtaining a doctorate is probably more important. You repeatedly state that you just want to do private practice clinical work, which you can do with a master's with marginal differences in income, but far less time and money.

Thank you for your insight! I also want the flexibility that at doctorate-level degree would award me, should I decide to teach, etc. Now, I am more open to a PhD as well based upon your response and responses from additional forums. Would you recommend any clinical PhD or PsyD programs?

Could I be successful in today's overly-saturated market?

Thanks!

 

[Justanothergrad]

I don't think the market is saturated. I hear that on here, not in the real world. Places are always hiring.

Get the insiders guide to graduate school in psychology and read about programs. It's not just what programs are 'good' but what are fitted to your interests, career goals, etc.

 

[MCParent]

I don't think the market is saturated. I hear that on here, not in the real world. Places are always hiring.

Hiring at a salary that would allow someone to pay back $200k in debt?
Do the places that hire at rates that would allow that (academic med, VA) hire folks from the weak schools when they have a line of folks from top teir programs?

The job market issues haven't affect me either, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

The job market issues haven't affect me either, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

Agreed. There are places in CA that regularly "hire" for unpaid post-docs, which is ridiculous....but there are still plenty of desperate students to take them.

More commonly there are newly licensed ppl who take unfavorable splits w. predatory (or at least stingy) private practices in CA bc they can't secure a better paying job with benefits. I've seen the latter in CA (Bay Area), FL (Miami), and NY (NYC).

 

[WisNeuro]

I don't think the market is saturated. I hear that on here, not in the real world. Places are always hiring.

Get the insiders guide to graduate school in psychology and read about programs. It's not just what programs are 'good' but what are fitted to your interests, career goals, etc.

There is a lot of hiring going on, but there is no problem filling those slots in most places. We get inundated with apps for any positions we post for a psychologist. Some markets are better than others, but I would still say that the supply outpaces the demand wherever I have been.

 

[psycho.babble]

I don't think the market is saturated. I hear that on here, not in the real world. Places are always hiring.

Get the insiders guide to graduate school in psychology and read about programs. It's not just what programs are 'good' but what are fitted to your interests, career goals, etc.

Ordering it now, thank you.

 

[Justanothergrad]

Hiring at a salary that would allow someone to pay back $200k in debt?
Do the places that hire at rates that would allow that (academic med, VA) hire folks from the weak schools when they have a line of folks from top teir programs?

The job market issues haven't affect me either, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

When I say that there is a good job market, I'm not including those schools that produce weak training/insurmountable debt in my equation of the field because those are simply bad investments/training models. Like I told him from the first, those types of schools aren't worth the time/energy for exactly this reason.

If we include those schools and the students that leave them with 200-300k in debt and poor training then sure, there are problems in the market. But the larger problem is not the 'market' per se but a specific section of potential employees not being prepared Students who go to reputable schools, by in large, have no problems finding employment. Perhaps CA is the exception because of the for-profit flooding, I don't know, but I'm not sure that is representative of other quality PhD programs across the country. I also suspect the same thing is true in any major population center for other types of skilled work as well (technology in RTP, silicon valley, etc or investment/banking in NYC)

 

[smalltownpsych]

Mobility is key to pursuing this career effectively. Especially important to be willing to move out of California where everyone wants to be a psychologist and thanks to student loans and predatory programs - anyone can be one. Don't crush my dreams brah.

 

[psycho.babble]

When I say that there is a good job market, I'm not including those schools that produce weak training/insurmountable debt in my equation of the field because those are simply bad investments/training models. Like I told him (her) from the first, those types of schools aren't worth the time/energy for exactly this reason.

If we include those schools and the students that leave them with 200-300k in debt and poor training then sure, there are problems in the market. But the larger problem is not the 'market' per se but a specific section of potential employees not being prepared Students who go to reputable schools, by in large, have no problems finding employment. Perhaps CA is the exception because of the for-profit flooding, I don't know, but I'm not sure that is representative of other quality PhD programs across the country. I also suspect the same thing is true in any major population center for other types of skilled work as well (technology in RTP, silicon valley, etc or investment/banking in NYC)

Its unfortunate that CA has been flooded by for-profit programs which are quite misleading to the naive applicant. I'm keeping my options open, and it looks as if I'll have to as the school market here I'snt great.

 

[deleted760483]

Certain areas are saturated, the US as a whole is not. There is generally solid demand for psychologists. The demand can be very high in areas that don't have many such programs. I live in a smaller Midwestern state that only has a couple doctoral program that take very few students and had multiple excellent job offers upon graduation.