Help Me With A Decision

[The White Coat Investor]

I am considering extending my active duty service commitment by a year. Help me to decide if this is a wise thing to do.

Pros:
1) I get out of my current work environment which does not allow me to perform my specialty, even in a limited way like most of my colleagues at lower-acuity med centers.
2) I get away from a set of group and squadron commanders that are not nearly as good as the ones I had for the last year (and with which I would be working much more closely due to my seniority)
3) I get to move away from a part of the US that I don't enjoy living in which is far from my family.
4) I get to live in Europe for 3 years
5) I will essentially (but without a guarantee, of course) be non-deployable.
6) I will actually be extending for only 9 months if I took my ISP that last year.

Cons:
1) I will be in the military for another year.
2) It is always possible I could be loaned to the Army for a year of misery.
3) Exposed to stop-loss for a longer period of time
4) I wouldn't be able to moonlight generating additional cash and keeping skills up
5) It might be a little harder to line up a job when I was done because I'd be living on the other side of the world.
6) I'd have to do an extra move.
7) Financially this will be a losing move, as my gross compensation would probably be something like $100,000 more if I was out of the military that year. After taxes and tithing that would be ~$55-60K. Plus no additional moonlighting money.

I also have two related pay questions (don't speculate on these if you don't know the answer for sure.)

1) If my education-related ADSC was up but I still had this commitment for PCSing, would I qualify for medical special pay (MSP/MISP?)
2) Would I be able to reset my ISP date to July rather than October 1?

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[West Side]

3) I get to move away from a part of the US that I don't enjoy living in which is far from my family.

Read in a certain way, this sounds like you GET to ditch the ball and chain for a European getaway.

 

[BomberDoc]

Don't fall for the "European Vacation" trick. I have seen two docs extend in order to PCS from my current hellhole. They were both promised sweet European assignments. As soon as they signed on the dotted line, the good deal went away. One did 24 months in the desert. The other (a newlywed) got an unaccompanied tour to Korea. Trust your detailer as much as you would trust a recruiter. Just stick it out, do your time, and get out of the military at the earliest opportunity. You'll make more money on the outside, and have a fraction of the BS. Caveat emptor.

 

[West Side]

Don't fall for the "European Vacation" trick. I have seen two docs extend in order to PCS from my current hellhole. They were both promised sweet European assignments. As soon as they signed on the dotted line, the good deal went away. One did 24 months in the desert. The other (a newlywed) got an unaccompanied tour to Korea. Trust your detailer as much as you would trust a recruiter. Just stick it out, do your time, and get out of the military at the earliest opportunity. You'll make more money on the outside, and have a fraction of the BS. Caveat emptor.

Wow.

The positively dastardly, even for the military.

I suppose you could ask for something in writing that guarantees you the slot they're dangling. Of course, they won't do so. I think that'll probably tell you all you need to know about an extra year in the military:
- There's no control over anything
- They have no interest in keeping promises
- You're actually paying for the privilege

 

[The White Coat Investor]

As I understand it, the act of going to Europe adds another year to my commitment. I don't add a year, then try to go to Europe.

 

[Galo]

Don't fall for the "European Vacation" trick. I have seen two docs extend in order to PCS from my current hellhole. They were both promised sweet European assignments. As soon as they signed on the dotted line, the good deal went away. One did 24 months in the desert. The other (a newlywed) got an unaccompanied tour to Korea. Trust your detailer as much as you would trust a recruiter. Just stick it out, do your time, and get out of the military at the earliest opportunity. You'll make more money on the outside, and have a fraction of the BS. Caveat emptor.

Agreed, unless you can get it in writting, (which you can't), they are able to do whatever the needs of the military are. You can go to Europe as an attending whenever you want.

 

[Gastrapathy]

Agreed, unless you can get it in writting, (which you can't), they are able to do whatever the needs of the military are. You can go to Europe as an attending whenever you want.

Thats not quite fair, its the orders minimum activity that extends his committment. If they change his orders, that no longer has any effect.

Answers to the last 2 questions:

1. Yes, "minimum activity" is not a ADSC in the truest sense and does not preclude bonuses. All tours have some minimum activity, so if it did, no one would be eligible for bonuses after each PCS.

2. No, I just looked into this after mitchconnie brought it up a few months ago. The only time you can move the ISP/MSP date is when you complete a fellowship or second residency.

 

[NavyFP]

Thats not quite fair, its the orders minimum activity that extends his committment. If they change his orders, that no longer has any effect.

Answers to the last 2 questions:

1. Yes, "minimum activity" is not a ADSC in the truest sense and does not preclude bonuses. All tours have some minimum activity, so if it did, no one would be eligible for bonuses after each PCS.

2. No, I just looked into this after mitchconnie brought it up a few months ago. The only time you can move the ISP/MSP date is when you complete a fellowship or second residency.

Concur with 1, disagree with 2.

If you are currently on an MSP and you renegotiate (which you may do at any time) you can change the date. I signed a 4 year MSP that was due to expire in Jun with an ISP in OCT. When I transferred to a new billet, I renegotiated with a start date of 1 Jan. Now my MSP/ISP are 1 Jan.

You can sign an MSP at any time, they just play with the dollar amounts to balance the time.

 

[The White Coat Investor]

I'm not sure I can sign an MSP at all, as I don't want to pick up at least 2 more years after my HPSP ADSC, and I think that's the MSP minimum. But I would like to reset my ISP date to July 1. Can I do that at least?

 

[Dirge]

I agree with Bomber-Doc. Never trust a detailer. You will get strung along and on and on.... Like any payback, why restructure your debt for a longer period, just suck it up and finish your obligation. Im glad I did. Sure, you may get a cushy assignment, but the organization never changes. Good luck.

 

[The White Coat Investor]

Thats not quite fair, its the orders minimum activity that extends his committment. If they change his orders, that no longer has any effect.

Answers to the last 2 questions:

1. Yes, "minimum activity" is not a ADSC in the truest sense and does not preclude bonuses. All tours have some minimum activity, so if it did, no one would be eligible for bonuses after each PCS.

2. No, I just looked into this after mitchconnie brought it up a few months ago. The only time you can move the ISP/MSP date is when you complete a fellowship or second residency.

Sounds like you're right. I normally could sign an MSP just before that last year I would owe, BUT, the minimum MSP period is 2 years. So, I imagine I wouldn't. The special pay office confirmed to me that I can't move my ISP date .

As far as your first point, do you know if my detailer is going to ask me to sign anything at all for this, or will I just receive orders?

The big benefits as I see them are a better job, MUCH lower chance of deployment (I'd say from 95% positive I'll have another one to 95% positive I won't have another one), and a fun place to live around a lot of places I'd like to visit. The big downsides are less money and a 1 year longer period of time where the military can screw me in some way I cannot now foresee (and I'm very aware that this has, does, and very well could occur to me.) It is a tough decision. Almost everyone encourages me to go for it but the most fanatical anti-military docs I know (both here with me now and on this forum.) My wife is very excited about it. I'm just trying not to make another mistake.

 

[Heeed!]

I recommend punchin' out. Travel to Europe for vacation. Knowing the AF, your orders will say "PCS to such-and-such base in a beautiful European country" but your duty location will actually be Diego Garcia.

 

[The White Coat Investor]

It should be noted that the location we're discussing was my first choice when I filled out my dream sheet a year and a half ago before I came on active duty and I was given a choice between my last choice and my present location (which wasn't on my list.)

 

[Gastrapathy]

Sounds like you're right. I normally could sign an MSP just before that last year I would owe, BUT, the minimum MSP period is 2 years. So, I imagine I wouldn't. The special pay office confirmed to me that I can't move my ISP date .

As far as your first point, do you know if my detailer is going to ask me to sign anything at all for this, or will I just receive orders?

The big benefits as I see them are a better job, MUCH lower chance of deployment (I'd say from 95% positive I'll have another one to 95% positive I won't have another one), and a fun place to live around a lot of places I'd like to visit. The big downsides are less money and a 1 year longer period of time where the military can screw me in some way I cannot now foresee (and I'm very aware that this has, does, and very well could occur to me.) It is a tough decision. Almost everyone encourages me to go for it but the most fanatical anti-military docs I know (both here with me now and on this forum.) My wife is very excited about it. I'm just trying not to make another mistake.

I'll be honest, if I got offered a Europe tour, I'd stay to do it and take my chances with getting screwed. Living in a country is totally different than visiting and it would be a great thing for the wife and kiddos.

I don't think you sign anything. Your orders will set a rotation date and that can automatically increase your committment. This can happen with any set of orders if you aren't careful, not just overseas orders.

 

[West Side]

Living in a country is totally different than visiting and it would be a great thing for the wife and kiddos.

Agreed. Not sure why you'd need to be in the military to do so.

Look at it this way: too many people get roped into the HPSP because they don't want to delay gratification (stipend during school! No debt on the back end!), and they end up reaping a whirlwind of BS because they allowed the siren song to short-circuit their due diligence process.

Ask yourself if you're doing the same thing. For the difference in pay, could you recreate a few years in London, with a more comfortable lifestyle, fewer headaches and compromises, a healthy professional environment that doesn't jade you to the medical industry, and a drastically reduced chance of getting your chain jerked around? If you can't...well, do the math one more time! But if you still can't, then I suppose you might as volunteer.

 

[The White Coat Investor]

Agreed. Not sure why you'd need to be in the military to do so..

The problem for doctors is it is VERY difficult to practice in another country unless you're in the military. It often requires additional years of residency.

I told the assignment officer to sign me up. I'm not committed until I accept the orders next Spring, so I can still back out. I think I'll be happier there, even with an extra year commitment and less money.

 

[alpha62]

If you want to practice in another country, why don't you just get out and do tricare contractor or DOD contract work overseas ?

If you really want to stay in, you could ask for Korea, accompanied (army ) but not 2ID and no PROFIS. Good chance you'd get it I think. maybe, why not ask.. and get it in writting.

I saw some guys get nice deals in Korea, south of Seoul of course. Hopping back and forth to Oki on the weekends, maybe a couple of China Trips, AF Osan looked pretty soft to me when I was there.

They're gonna stop loss people into the grave for the next one, Iran ?
Antartica won't be safe to homestead by then

- jej

 

[The White Coat Investor]

If you want to practice in another country, why don't you just get out and do tricare contractor or DOD contract work overseas ?

Because I still owe the military two years. I am exchanging two years in a place I don't want to be at for three years at a place I do.

If you really want to stay in,

I don't. But they won't let me out yet.

you could ask for Korea, accompanied (army ) but not 2ID and no PROFIS. Good chance you'd get it I think. maybe, why not ask.. and get it in writting.

Uhhh...why would I go to Korea, accompanied or unaccompanied over Germany? That was actually an option, but at least in my field people only go to Korea if that is the only way they can get to Germany.

They're gonna stop loss people into the grave for the next one, Iran ?

Yes, I worry about that.