Help please! In PsyD CSPP-LA, wanting to apply elsewhere

[Psyd2be]

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[PsySeeker]

The university Psy.Ds I know of are quite competitive. Most are going to want you to have some research experience, and they are going to want GRE scores around the 1200 range + or - 100 points. Of course there are exceptions.

 

[JeyRo]

Hi all,

I made a poor choice and decided to peruse my PsyD at Alliant International University. I am not happy with the program. I do not feel challenged or stimulated academically. I've had a bad experience there.

I'm thinking of staying in this program and applying elsewhere and leaving once accepted. I am not sure if I will have a strong chance being accepted into other PsyD programs as they are competitive and selective.

Here is a brief overview of my stats:

State Univeristy, Undergraduate (Psychology) GPA: 3.0
Tier 1 University- top 15- Masters in Marriage and Family Therapy GPA: 3.6-3.7
Current GPA in Psy.D. program: 3.8
GRE: very low, will retake! Below 1000
Analytical Writing Score: 5, 5.5
Clinical and Research Experience: 6 years, inpatient psychiatric hospital, assessment testing, community mental health agency and school setting with a very diverse population
Volunteer Experience: Vast
Ethnicity: Bicultural
Languages spoken: fluent to conduct therapy in one other language
Strengths: Creative, empathetic, insightful, strong interpersonal skills, bicultural, leadership qualities, dedicated to service and highly motivated
Dissertation Interests: Cross Cultural Counseling, Resiliency, Positive Psychology, Disordered Eating

This is just a short snap shot. I am wondering of my chances of acceptance into university based psyd programs. Please advise.


It has been a bad experience thus far. Not happy with the support, training, resources and opportunities.

I am also an MFT intern. Deciding either taking time off - strengthening my CV and clinical experience. Or staying and applying. Or leave of absence to see where I'll get in.

I feel like staying at CSPP could really hurt my development and career in the long run. So upset! Feel like I've wasted so much time and energy.

Please advise.

Sorry about the predicament you're in. I'm sure others probably have some advice for you re. your stats and how that might relate to applying to other, more reputable programs (of which, as you've correctly noted, Alliant is most certainly not).

I'd like to comment on the idea of staying at Alliant while you apply to other programs (or just generally figure out what you do next) - why would you do that? My personal opinion (shared by many others here) is that attending a very poor quality, exorbitantly expensive program like Alliant is, quite simply, a mistake. Why compound it further by staying in for a minute longer? Don't fall prey to the "sunk costs" fallacy. If it's a bad call (and I think it is), don't stay there for a minute longer. There will be a lot more of your life and finances to salvage if you get out now, trust me.

Anyways, good luck! I hope you make the right decision for you.

 

[JeyRo]

The university Psy.Ds I know of are quite competitive. Most are going to want you to have some research experience, and they are going to want GRE scores around the 1200 range + or - 100 points. Of course there are exceptions.

I second that, re. the "what to do next" issue - it seems like making studying for the GREs a top priority would be a great call, if you're really gung-ho on applying to more programs.

However, you might want to go back to basics and ask yourself why you're set on a PsyD? What are your career goals?

I note you already are on your way to obtaining licensure as an MFT - so it sounds like you're already quite close to functioning independently as a professional psychotherapist. What would the added cost and time of a PsyD get you for career goals that you can't already get with an MFT?

Also you have been at Alliant how many years? Again, this is no reason to stay there and compound the bad decision of attending an Alliant program further, but remember that virtually all PsyD programs (aside from Rutgers, AFAIK) also require hefty tuition and fees, and doctoral-level psychotherapists don't really earn more than masters-level therapists in most cases anyways..... this will add some significant challenges to your life you should consider.... earning a PsyD if you're just going to continue practicing psychotherapy won't really increase your earning power too much, and will add significantly to your debt load.

 

[Psyd2be]

The university Psy.Ds I know of are quite competitive. Most are going to want you to have some research experience, and they are going to want GRE scores around the 1200 range + or - 100 points. Of course there are exceptions.

Yes. I will definitely need to raise my GRE, and that is very possible if I put forth the time and effort. Also, I forgot to mention I do have over a year of research experience.

 

[Psyd2be]

Sorry about the predicament you're in. I'm sure others probably have some advice for you re. your stats and how that might relate to applying to other, more reputable programs (of which, as you've correctly noted, Alliant is most certainly not).

I'd like to comment on the idea of staying at Alliant while you apply to other programs (or just generally figure out what you do next) - why would you do that? My personal opinion (shared by many others here) is that attending a very poor quality, exorbitantly expensive program like Alliant is, quite simply, a mistake. Why compound it further by staying in for a minute longer? Don't fall prey to the "sunk costs" fallacy. If it's a bad call (and I think it is), don't stay there for a minute longer. There will be a lot more of your life and finances to salvage if you get out now, trust me.

Anyways, good luck! I hope you make the right decision for you.

Thank you so much for this reply! Definitely helpful! If anything I am worried about time more than anything, money is not that much of an issue for me. My school is being paid in full without loans/debt.

 

[Psyd2be]

I second that, re. the "what to do next" issue - it seems like making studying for the GREs a top priority would be a great call, if you're really gung-ho on applying to more programs.

However, you might want to go back to basics and ask yourself why you're set on a PsyD? What are your career goals?

I note you already are on your way to obtaining licensure as an MFT - so it sounds like you're already quite close to functioning independently as a professional psychotherapist. What would the added cost and time of a PsyD get you for career goals that you can't already get with an MFT?

Also you have been at Alliant how many years? Again, this is no reason to stay there and compound the bad decision of attending an Alliant program further, but remember that virtually all PsyD programs (aside from Rutgers, AFAIK) also require hefty tuition and fees, and doctoral-level psychotherapists don't really earn more than masters-level therapists in most cases anyways..... this will add some significant challenges to your life you should consider.... earning a PsyD if you're just going to continue practicing psychotherapy won't really increase your earning power too much, and will add significantly to your debt load.

Thank you so much for this thorough reply. I am not getting my PsyD to make more money. I am doing it for greater clinical training, better job opportunities, and other goals I wish to reach. And, my education is being paid in full. No debt.

Studying for the GRE and Subject would need to be TOP priority. And, I believe I have the capacity to score high if I actually focus. I also have research experience. The reason I have a lower undergrad GPA was because I was not focused as a freshman and sophmore, however my junior and senior year I was above a 3.6 gpa and it leveled out to a 3.0.

I would like to attend a REAL PsyD program, and I am possibly considering a PhD.

 

[Psyd2be]

I also hope people from the outside reading this thread think THREE times, not TWICE before attending Alliant.

*Lack of support & guidance
*Poor APA matching
*Poor with practicum placement

I'm an independent person who believes you make life work for you, and you pave your own way, build doors to get through - and thought regardless of the challanges Alliant would bring I could get through it and succeed. However, certain things have happened within the past year that has made me believe this may not be the case. Alliant can close doors, and creates GREAT frustration.

I started to save time and get on the process faster, now I see maybe being patient would have been a better idea

 

[JeyRo]

I think it's a powerful statement that even someone of indepedent financial means like yourself (e.g., able to pay steep tuition and fees without incurring debt..... gotta say, must be nice!) recognizes that programs like Alliant are terrible for students and the profession.

I have to compliment you for apparently having the capacity to adapt quickly to the reality of your situation, as opposed to doing what so many Alliant students probably do to their detriment, e.g., to stick it out, "try to make the best of it," fall prey to the sunk cost fallacy, etc. Really, nice work.

 

[PHD12]

Thank you so much for this thorough reply. I am not getting my PsyD to make more money. I am doing it for greater clinical training, better job opportunities, and other goals I wish to reach. And, my education is being paid in full. No debt.

I would like to attend a REAL PsyD program, and I am possibly considering a PhD.

Since you have $$, have you thought about doing several high quality trainings (Marsha Linehan, Beck Institute, UPENN) and also paying some well-known people to provide supervision to you on your cases? You can pay for supervision from experts in the field. I believe you would get better training this way (and it would be significantly cheaper) then by attending a PsyD program for 5-6 years, esp. since you have a license eligible degree.

 

[Psyd2be]

I think it's a powerful statement that even someone of indepedent financial means like yourself (e.g., able to pay steep tuition and fees without incurring debt..... gotta say, must be nice!) recognizes that programs like Alliant are terrible for students and the profession.

I have to compliment you for apparently having the capacity to adapt quickly to the reality of your situation, as opposed to doing what so many Alliant students probably do to their detriment, e.g., to stick it out, "try to make the best of it," fall prey to the sunk cost fallacy, etc. Really, nice work.

Yes, Alliant is! I am definitely blessed on the financial part. If I did not have that support I would get out immediately and wouldnt have even started here. Hopefully I will make the right decision and get into a better program.

Are you a practicing psychologist? What is your background?

 

[Psyd2be]

Since you have $$, have you thought about doing several high quality trainings (Marsha Linehan, Beck Institute, UPENN) and also paying some well-known people to provide supervision to you on your cases? You can pay for supervision from experts in the field. I believe you would get better training this way (and it would be significantly cheaper) then by attending a PsyD program for 5-6 years, esp. since you have a license eligible degree.

That's a great idea. I did not know that was possible. I don't have that much money to pay for supervision like that!

Plus, I would like to have DR in front of my name

 

[JeyRo]

That's a great idea. I did not know that was possible. I don't have that much money to pay for supervision like that!

Plus, I would like to have DR in front of my name

AH! The truth is out. At least you're honest. Although, honestly, not a great reason for becoming a shrink, obviously.... I'm guessing you already know that.

Well, in terms of my background, I've been licensed and have been practicing for approximately the past 10 years. I work at the VA. I went to an APA accredited program and got the APA accredited internship and postdoc, the whole shebang. However, it was a FSPS program, and unlike you, I didn't have the financial means to pay the tab. :-( I currently have very significant debt following me for the next couple of decades. On the other hand, I accrued that debt at a time when interest rates on student loans were absurdly low and my income is able to generally support my payments currently (although life would be far better without this monkey on my back).

I personally consider it my mission to try and talk people out of attending unfunded programs in virtually all circumstances.

However, if you want to PM me, I can tell you more about the program I attended - I actually attended a program that currently boasts a very high APA internship match rate and, relative to FSPS and other unfunded programs (I don't consider the "university-based" monniker very well operationalized or useful so I won't bother with that) boasts pretty good outcomes. If you're interested I can tell you about it - I'd only recommend the program I attended if one could do it with no debt.

The best thing is to try and go for a funded program of reasonable quality. I think you'd end up feeling much better about the whole experience in the end, and then you can use the money saved to, I don't know, start your own clinic or something.....

 

[Psyd2be]

AH! The truth is out. At least you're honest. Although, honestly, not a great reason for becoming a shrink, obviously.... I'm guessing you already know that.

Well, in terms of my background, I've been licensed and have been practicing for approximately the past 10 years. I work at the VA. I went to an APA accredited program and got the APA accredited internship and postdoc, the whole shebang. However, it was a FSPS program, and unlike you, I didn't have the financial means to pay the tab. :-( I currently have very significant debt following me for the next couple of decades. On the other hand, I accrued that debt at a time when interest rates on student loans were absurdly low and my income is able to generally support my payments currently (although life would be far better without this monkey on my back).

I personally consider it my mission to try and talk people out of attending unfunded programs in virtually all circumstances.

However, if you want to PM me, I can tell you more about the program I attended - I actually attended a program that currently boasts a very high APA internship match rate and, relative to FSPS and other unfunded programs (I don't consider the "university-based" monniker very well operationalized or useful so I won't bother with that) boasts pretty good outcomes. If you're interested I can tell you about it - I'd only recommend the program I attended if one could do it with no debt.

The best thing is to try and go for a funded program of reasonable quality. I think you'd end up feeling much better about the whole experience in the end, and then you can use the money saved to, I don't know, start your own clinic or something.....

Thanks! Given my stats. If I was to raise my GRE scores what do you think my odds will be in getting into a top university for PsyD. Or at least an interview.

 

[JeyRo]

Thanks! Given my stats. If I was to raise my GRE scores what do you think my odds will be in getting into a top university for PsyD. Or at least an interview.

Hard to say..... I'd largely defer to other members on that question. I would imagine you'd get an interview at (say) PGSP-Stanford. Don't know about Rutgers, they're probably the gold standard of PsyD programs.

What do you consider "top university" PsyD programs?

 

[Psyd2be]

Hard to say..... I'd largely defer to other members on that question. I would imagine you'd get an interview at (say) PGSP-Stanford. Don't know about Rutgers, they're probably the gold standard of PsyD programs.

What do you consider "top university" PsyD programs?

Rutgers, Gwu, baylors, pgsp, and pepperdine.

I'm trying to withstand cspp till feb-march 2014 until I hear back from the programs. It just sucks that I have to do all this extra work to keep my safety net. Instead I could put forth my energy into better things than wasted units.

So now I'm deciding on staying and applying. Or leaving, and applying. And during the next year just work... And focus on other aspects of my development that will serve me better in the long run.

Btw congrats on all your accomplishments.

 

[PHD12]

Rutgers, Gwu, baylors, pgsp, and pepperdine.

I'm trying to withstand cspp till feb-march 2014 until I hear back from the programs. It just sucks that I have to do all this extra work to keep my safety net. Instead I could put forth my energy into better things than wasted units.

So now I'm deciding on staying and applying. Or leaving, and applying. And during the next year just work... And focus on other aspects of my development that will serve me better in the long run.

Btw congrats on all your accomplishments.

GWU is not in the same class as rutgers or baylor. They have an APA internship rate of below 50% and are incredibly expensive. If you are leaving alliant, I wouldn't bother entering another program with poor outcomes.

Rutgers and Baylor are the only PsyD programs to my knowledge with funding (baylor provides full funding and stipend) + great outcomes and reputations. PGSP and Pepperdine are both incredibly expensive (even for someone with family money in my opinion).

I believe these programs all have GPA averages of around 3.6. Rutgers and baylor will be the most competitive ones (around 5-7% acceptance rate)

If the DR. Title is a big motivator, you are going to be disappointed (Nobody in the real world knows what a PsyD is and your patients will not know the difference between MFT and PsyD).

Good luck

 

[Psyd2be]

Right. Thanks for your time and feedback. I'm going to try my best and apply and see where life leads! In case you're interested Ill keep you posted