hey future dentists help me with my teeth

[MD2b20004]

ok i need some prices on some procedures, i hate my teeth and its been a long goal to be able to fix them and get that perfect smile (they are not horrible but i want to have the best smile i can).

first procedure i want to know how much it costs to get my teeth laser whitened.

Second procedure i have a big gap between my front two teeth, they are kinda bigger than my other teeth, so i want to close this gap and see if i can make them the same size as my other teeth, problem one of my front teeth is on a nail implanted in cause i fell when iw as younger and broke one of my front teeth entirely, and half of the other adjacent front tooth. For the one that broke entirely they had to insert a nail or whatever its called in dental terms and implant a fake tooth that way, the one that was half broken they just ummm put that stuff on it to make it a full tooth again. Whats the best way to close the gap between these two fake teeth, is it vuneers? endo? or what. how much will this procedure cost, by exgf had a gap between her two front teeth, she ended up getting vuneers on all her 4 front teeth to make them all the same size and close the gap and her teeth look sooooo damn good and perfect like model teeth. I dont know if this will work for me since one of my front teeth is entirely fake hanging on a screw and i dont know if i will be able to afford this procedure but i really dont know how much it would cost so if anyone can fill me in that be great.

Thanks for the time and advice docs.

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[Supernumerary]

"tooth on a nail" That is the first time I have ever heard an implant described in quite that way.

Anyway, the short answer is --- it's going to cost a lot. There are a lot of different ways to plan this case and you'd have to go to a dentist to get any kind of reliable estimate. There are just too many variables for anyone to do this without actually seeing you.

It's going to vary from dentist to dentist depending on his fees and treatment plan. I'm sure your current dentist would be more than happy to lay out the case and get an estimate for you.

 

[lnn2]

first procedure i want to know how much it costs to get my teeth laser whitened.

$150-200 per arch, one office visit.

Second procedure i have a big gap between my front two teeth, they are kinda bigger than my other teeth, so i want to close this gap and see if i can make them the same size as my other teeth, problem one of my front teeth is on a nail implanted in cause i fell when iw as younger and broke one of my front teeth entirely, and half of the other adjacent front tooth. For the one that broke entirely they had to insert a nail or whatever its called in dental terms and implant a fake tooth that way, the one that was half broken they just ummm put that stuff on it to make it a full tooth again. Whats the best way to close the gap between these two fake teeth, is it vuneers? endo? or what. how much will this procedure cost, by exgf had a gap between her two front teeth, she ended up getting vuneers on all her 4 front teeth to make them all the same size and close the gap and her teeth look sooooo damn good and perfect like model teeth. I dont know if this will work for me since one of my front teeth is entirely fake hanging on a screw and i dont know if i will be able to afford this procedure but i really dont know how much it would cost so if anyone can fill me in that be great.

Thanks for the time and advice docs.

For the 2 big teeth (central incisors): All porcelain crowns, average is about $800 each.
"a nail" is called a Post, which holds the build up tooth structure (a Core) They're called Post&Core. This tooth most likely had root canal therapy (Endo) done already (to do Post&Core)

For the 2 adjacent teeth (lateral incisors): Veneers, average is about $600 each.

If the gap is too big then u might need Ortho treatment (braces) and then crowns, veneers later on. If u don't want the Ortho tx, there's maybe another option (not conservative): 6 teeth treatment: crown 2 central incisors, veneers 4 adjacent teeth.

If u like your exgf's result then I would seek treatment/consult at her dentist. But remember, getting your teeth look better doesn't guarantee getting her back It's over man, let her go

There're also other cosmetic procedures such as crown lengthening, gingivoplasty...as needed to make the smile/teeth look estheticly pleasing.

Hope it helps! It'd be cool if u can post your smile pic!

 

[J2AZ]

I'm not a dentist yet but my view has always been to be as conservative as possible. I really am against destroying a perfectly healthy tooth just to place a veneer. I would suggest going to your dentist and have him/her make you some bleaching trays ($300). The great thing about these is you can always buy more bleach a year or two down the road and do touch-ups. After bleaching I would look into having a new crown placed on the post and a veneer or crown on the other broken tooth. A good dentist and lab should be able to give you a great smile be fixing these two teeth. If you can not close the gap doing this I would strongly recomend ortho and not veneers. I know some people are fine with them and maybe some day I too will be but as of today I just don't understand altering perfectly healthy teeth to place a veneer when in many cases ortho and a little time can do the same thing.
Cost: Bleaching trays and bleach = $300
Crown and Veneer or two crowns = $800 each
Ortho = ? up to 4500 (but worth it...you get to keep your teeth)

 

[GQ1]

To get the best result you need to see a prosthodontist, theyre the specialists in crowns, implants and cosmetic dentistry. They can direct the treatment for you, so if you have braces they will tell the orthodontist how much to move the teeth before they put restorations on them.

Any dentist who prepares your teeth and takes an impression and gives you your finished crowns in a week is a pretty bad dentist. They should place temporary crowns on your teeth to see how you look and function then copy the temporaries when your happy with them to make your new crowns.

The only disadvantage to this is that prosthodontists cost about twice as much as generalists.

ok i need some prices on some procedures, i hate my teeth and its been a long goal to be able to fix them and get that perfect smile (they are not horrible but i want to have the best smile i can).

first procedure i want to know how much it costs to get my teeth laser whitened.

Second procedure i have a big gap between my front two teeth, they are kinda bigger than my other teeth, so i want to close this gap and see if i can make them the same size as my other teeth, problem one of my front teeth is on a nail implanted in cause i fell when iw as younger and broke one of my front teeth entirely, and half of the other adjacent front tooth. For the one that broke entirely they had to insert a nail or whatever its called in dental terms and implant a fake tooth that way, the one that was half broken they just ummm put that stuff on it to make it a full tooth again. Whats the best way to close the gap between these two fake teeth, is it vuneers? endo? or what. how much will this procedure cost, by exgf had a gap between her two front teeth, she ended up getting vuneers on all her 4 front teeth to make them all the same size and close the gap and her teeth look sooooo damn good and perfect like model teeth. I dont know if this will work for me since one of my front teeth is entirely fake hanging on a screw and i dont know if i will be able to afford this procedure but i really dont know how much it would cost so if anyone can fill me in that be great.

Thanks for the time and advice docs.

 

[Supernumerary]

To get the best result you need to see a prosthodontist, theyre the specialists in crowns, implants and cosmetic dentistry. They can direct the treatment for you, so if you have braces they will tell the orthodontist how much to move the teeth before they put restorations on them.

Any dentist who prepares your teeth and takes an impression and gives you your finished crowns in a week is a pretty bad dentist. They should place temporary crowns on your teeth to see how you look and function then copy the temporaries when your happy with them to make your new crowns.

The only disadvantage to this is that prosthodontists cost about twice as much as generalists.

 

[Supernumerary]

This case needs a prosthodontist like I need an automotive engineer to change my oil.

 

[GQ1]

Did i say NEEDS or did i say to get the best result see a prosthodontist? Its like buying a car - a kia will get you from a to b but a mercedes will last longer and give you a more predictable ride.

Think if it was your close relative who needed it doing youd want the best for them if you were ethical so a prosthodontist would be more highly qualified to treat them.

hey you dont want to get a surgery from your family medical doctor or the surgical intern you want the top guy.

We re not trying to start a fight here supernumary just trying to help the guy get the best treatment.

 

[ItsGavinC]

my front two teeth, they are kinda bigger than my other teeth, so i want to close this gap and see if i can make them the same size as my other teeth

They SHOULD be much bigger than your other teeth, so don't worry about that.

 

[aphistis]

Any dentist who prepares your teeth and takes an impression and gives you your finished crowns in a week is a pretty bad dentist. They should place temporary crowns on your teeth to see how you look and function then copy the temporaries when your happy with them to make your new crowns.

Good one, buddy. I've needed a good chuckle after staring a week of finals in the face all weekend. Thanks.

 

[aphistis]

We re not trying to start a fight here supernumary just trying to help the guy get the best treatment.

And--just to make sure we're all clear on this--you think "the best treatment" is to send the guy off wearing Snap for a month, then making an identical permanent crown? And *furthermore*, you think he'd need a prosthodontist to provide that kind of top-shelf care?

Like I said a minute ago, good one.

 

[Supernumerary]

Did i say NEEDS or did i say to get the best result see a prosthodontist? Its like buying a car - a kia will get you from a to b but a mercedes will last longer and give you a more predictable ride.

Think if it was your close relative who needed it doing youd want the best for them if you were ethical so a prosthodontist would be more highly qualified to treat them.

hey you dont want to get a surgery from your family medical doctor or the surgical intern you want the top guy.

We re not trying to start a fight here supernumary just trying to help the guy get the best treatment.

No, it's nothing like buying a car. It's a couple of crowns; these are bread and butter for general dentists. There is going to be zero difference in the clinical quality of a GP versus a prosthodontist. The only differences will be a reflection of the quality of the lab used. If he really wants the most bang for his buck, his best bet would be to go to a GP and tell the dentist that he'll pay the difference for using a top notch lab.

Think if it was your close relative who needed it doing youd want the best for them if you were ethical so a prosthodontist would be more highly qualified to treat them.

Are you saying it is unethical for GPs to do crowns? If I were having a major cosmetic case done on me, I know exactly who I'd go to and he's a general dentist. If I needed 20 units of fixed and had a jaw deformity I would consider going to a prosth, but for two crowns??

Nobody's trying to fight with you; we just don't think you know what you're talking about.

 

[lnn2]

No, it's nothing like buying a car. It's a couple of crowns; these are bread and butter for general dentists. There is going to be zero difference in the clinical quality of a GP versus a prosthodontist. The only differences will be a reflection of the quality of the lab used. If he really wants the most bang for his buck, his best bet would be to go to a GP and tell the dentist that he'll pay the difference for using a top notch lab.

I agree. No GP will give the bread&butter cases to Prostho, just the screw up/time consuming cases. Being a Prostho doesn't necessary mean better clinical skill than a GP.
What really important are the dentist's clinical skill, a good tx plan and a quality lab. U can't have one without the other. Choose your dentist carefully, whether he/she is a Prostho or GP or any others, as long as they have your best interest in mind and are competent, u'll get a good result.

I'm not a dentist yet but my view has always been to be as conservative as possible. I really am against destroying a perfectly healthy tooth just to place a veneer.

I agree. But if a perfectly healthy tooth doesn't look good estheticly (irregular size, peg lateral, intrinsic stain..) then veneer or crown might help. Ortho can correct malocclusion, etc. but it has limitation. It all depends on a particular case and/or what the patient wants.

Check out this case: one tooth, #7, crown should have been enough but doesn't it look better with all 4?

Again, choose your dentist carefully, by words of mouth, case photo presentations...just like choosing a plastic surgeon! U don't want Michael Jackson's surgeon A lousy dentist can give u a filling then root canal and a crown and an extraction, all on the same tooth! I've seen it in d school more than once (cases from private practice dentists)

 

[DDSSlave]

Not too bad. Looks like some crown lengthening surgery also. Lost a little bit of the papilla b/w 8 & 9, but photos may have been shot before it had a chance to fill in. The laterals are a little long though. Would have shortened those 1/2 mm. Just being picky.

 

[lnn2]

Not too bad. Looks like some crown lengthening surgery also. Lost a little bit of the papilla b/w 8 & 9, but photos may have been shot before it had a chance to fill in. The laterals are a little long though. Would have shortened those 1/2 mm. Just being picky.

Man, you're good! I don't care what they said about u, you're good!
The laterals indeed are a little shorter than the centrals but not as much like we wanted. Also gingivoplasty too. Anatomy on the centrals could had been a little better too! Everything could've been done better! But if the patient is happy w. it then it's alllll gooood!

 

[DDSSlave]

if the patient is happy w. it then it's alllll gooood!

Exactly! That's a good feeling!

 

[GQ1]

Appologies for the long post

My advice MD2B is that many prosthdontists will do an exam for free so see a generalist and see he specialist and then juge whos opinion you trust more. Or go to a dental school they have specialist residents (prosthodontist) who will be able to do the tx better than an outside dentist and cheaper as they re still in residenct.

Supernumary thats a very simplistic approach that the only difference is the quality of the lab. If that were so every dentist would charge double like a prosthodontist and get a good lab.

No - the difference is the double amount of training the prosthodontist has to us. They dont go to residency for an extra 3 years to learn how to prep they go to tx plan for the most complex cases and how to direct the rest of the dental specialist. Thats like saying an orthodontist goes to school to learn how to bond brackets with composite - he goes to learn how to treatment plan pure and simple.

The prosthodonist will have at his disposal more complex tx planning skills, understanding of occlusion, dental materials etc.

Its the same as buying a piece of piece of machinery from the usa or russia where theyre less skilled, have less experience, will use cheaper components and have less time to spend on it due to the lower profit margin.

Its not their fault they have to make a buck too but im usa all the way.


Its not about getting bang for the buck because theyre 2 different products.

No, it's nothing like buying a car. It's a couple of crowns; these are bread and butter for general dentists. There is going to be zero difference in the clinical quality of a GP versus a prosthodontist. The only differences will be a reflection of the quality of the lab used. If he really wants the most bang for his buck, his best bet would be to go to a GP and tell the dentist that he'll pay the difference for using a top notch lab.



Are you saying it is unethical for GPs to do crowns? If I were having a major cosmetic case done on me, I know exactly who I'd go to and he's a general dentist. If I needed 20 units of fixed and had a jaw deformity I would consider going to a prosth, but for two crowns??

Nobody's trying to fight with you; we just don't think you know what you're talking about.

 

[GQ1]

Well i must thank you for also giving us a laugh on you.

this is a long reply but everyone can learn something here.

1. Snap is a bis GMA so is brittle and therefore is no good for customizing the anterior guidance in the preps you need an acrylic like cold pac or heat processed temps with higher strength and 28% less porosity.

2. If you dont provide temps you cant control the gingival tissues if he has a diastema - you need to shape the papilla with the temps.

3. An ovate pontic is required to create a height of contour and "running room" for the restoration. (if he has the endodontically treated tooth with failed post extracted.)

4. his posterior determinant of occlusion (the condyle) is a fixed value (15 to 30 degrees) you are controlling only the anterior determinant (cingulum and incisal edges of max incisors). if his posterior determinant is shallow how will you be able to give him a perrmanent restoration without customizing the anterior guidance in protrusion to create a mutually protected occlusion.

5. how will you design the anterior guidance even with a semi adjustable articulator and check bites in protrusison as the semi adjustable is on a staright line so only gives you 2 points ( so your cingulum is flat)

6. what facebow will u use kinematic or arbritary to increase accuracy

7. how will u insure immediate disclusion in dynamic occlusion but in CR the anterior teeth just missing.

All this needs temps.
I hope some people have picked info up in this thread.


UOTE=aphistis]And--just to make sure we're all clear on this--you think "the best treatment" is to send the guy off wearing Snap for a month, then making an identical permanent crown? And *furthermore*, you think he'd need a prosthodontist to provide that kind of top-shelf care?

Like I said a minute ago, good one.[/QUOTE]

 

[dudelove]

I agree with most of what you say. I don't think that you need a kinematic facebow recording for most cases unless you are dealing with changing, I.E restoring the VDO, even then if you take all of your check bites at the increased VDO, you will be ok. I don't know if you have ever used an axiopath, but there is a definite difference in result depending on the operator. You sound like you are a pros student.

Well i must thank you for also giving us a laugh on you.

this is a long reply but everyone can learn something here.

1. Snap is a bis GMA so is brittle and therefore is no good for customizing the anterior guidance in the preps you need an acrylic like cold pac or heat processed temps with higher strength and 28% less porosity.

2. If you dont provide temps you cant control the gingival tissues if he has a diastema - you need to shape the papilla with the temps.

3. An ovate pontic is required to create a height of contour and "running room" for the restoration. (if he has the endodontically treated tooth with failed post extracted.)

4. his posterior determinant of occlusion (the condyle) is a fixed value (15 to 30 degrees) you are controlling only the anterior determinant (cingulum and incisal edges of max incisors). if his posterior determinant is shallow how will you be able to give him a perrmanent restoration without customizing the anterior guidance in protrusion to create a mutually protected occlusion.

5. how will you design the anterior guidance even with a semi adjustable articulator and check bites in protrusison as the semi adjustable is on a staright line so only gives you 2 points ( so your cingulum is flat)

6. what facebow will u use kinematic or arbritary to increase accuracy

7. how will u insure immediate disclusion in dynamic occlusion but in CR the anterior teeth just missing.

All this needs temps.
I hope some people have picked info up in this thread.


UOTE=aphistis]And--just to make sure we're all clear on this--you think "the best treatment" is to send the guy off wearing Snap for a month, then making an identical permanent crown? And *furthermore*, you think he'd need a prosthodontist to provide that kind of top-shelf care?

Like I said a minute ago, good one.

[/QUOTE]

 

[GQ1]

thanks for your reply,

the problem with the arbritary facebow is that it varies in its relation to the radius of the true hinge axis. what you say is correct regarding taking the reading at the VDO to be restored at BUT if incisor opening is greater than 6 mm ( - more than possible in many patients when restoring the VDO - 6MM ANTERIORLY IS ONLY 2MM POSTERIORLY as its a hinge) then the arbritary facebow will no longer have sufficient relation to the radius of the true hinge axis. When you come to mount the cast they will not be at the correct VDO even with accurate interocclusal records as it will be on a different rotaional center.

I agree with most of what you say. I don't think that you need a kinematic facebow recording for most cases unless you are dealing with changing, I.E restoring the VDO, even then if you take all of your check bites at the increased VDO, you will be ok. I don't know if you have ever used an axiopath, but there is a definite difference in result depending on the operator. You sound like you are a pros student.

[/QUOTE]

 

[dudelove]

I would use a kinematic facebow and fully adjustable articulator in that case. 6mm anteriorly is quite a bit. Most cases don't need that much opening, but I do agree with what you stated.

thanks for your reply,

the problem with the arbritary facebow is that it varies in its relation to the radius of the true hinge axis. what you say is correct regarding taking the reading at the VDO to be restored at BUT if incisor opening is greater than 6 mm ( - more than possible in many patients when restoring the VDO - 6MM ANTERIORLY IS ONLY 2MM POSTERIORLY as its a hinge) then the arbritary facebow will no longer have sufficient relation to the radius of the true hinge axis. When you come to mount the cast they will not be at the correct VDO even with accurate interocclusal records as it will be on a different rotaional center.

[/QUOTE]

 

[GQ1]

all sounds sensible. the 6mm anteriorly is referenced to the father of articulator review Wienberg. But this is learnt after many hours trial and error with faculty supervision in clinic not just from reading old journals.


will be applicable in patients with lost posterior support, tooth wear, class III patients so when you open them up the mandible moves down and back to get them prosthetically class I

dudelove what do u think is bread and butter and what is referrable for the benefit of the patient, because i dont know too many dentists who would go through the steps we ve been discussing, most likely they d be Dr Joe Average just taking an impression and 2 weeks later grinding away the metal/porcelain lingual areas?

I would use a kinematic facebow and fully adjustable articulator in that case. 6mm anteriorly is quite a bit. Most cases don't need that much opening, but I do agree with what you stated.

[/QUOTE]

 

[dudelove]

Well single crowns and 3 unit bridges here and there typically don't need to be mounted in CR with semi/fully adjustable articulators since you will probably build the patient into MIP as all of their previous restorations were built that way. I guess what you are getting with a prosthodontist is the treatment planning skills. There are a lot of good GPs skillwise, but when it comes to TX planning and what the literature supports, many of them are lacking. If I personally needed anything more than a crown, I would go to a reputable prosthodontist. What program are you in by the way? PM me.

all sounds sensible. the 6mm anteriorly is referenced to the father of articulator review Wienberg. But this is learnt after many hours trial and error with faculty supervision in clinic not just from reading old journals.


will be applicable in patients with lost posterior support, tooth wear, class III patients so when you open them up the mandible moves down and back to get them prosthetically class I

dudelove what do u think is bread and butter and what is referrable for the benefit of the patient, because i dont know too many dentists who would go through the steps we ve been discussing, most likely they d be Dr Joe Average just taking an impression and 2 weeks later grinding away the metal/porcelain lingual areas?

[/QUOTE]

 

[lnn2]

this is a long reply but everyone can learn something here.

1. Snap is a bis GMA so is brittle and therefore is no good for customizing the anterior guidance in the preps you need an acrylic like cold pac or heat processed temps with higher strength and 28% less porosity.

2. If you dont provide temps you cant control the gingival tissues if he has a diastema - you need to shape the papilla with the temps.

3. An ovate pontic is required to create a height of contour and "running room" for the restoration. (if he has the endodontically treated tooth with failed post extracted.)

....All this needs temps.
I hope some people have picked info up in this thread.

I've learn a lot from here! NOT
This is a very simple case. Chief complaint: disastema, not happy w. his smile/esthetic of his teeth.

Failed post? base on what? What does an "ovate pontic" have to do w. this case? Don't u think an implant would be a better option instead of grinding down #7,#9 for your ovate pontic? You're making things more complicated than they actually are.
Of course u need temps if u're prep-ing the tooth for a crown/venners. U can't let the pt walks out w.out a temp.

You just don't grind a tooth down and slap a crown on without checking everything related to the restoration as needed (margins, occlusion, disclusion, protrusion, excursion, anterior/K9 guidance, esthetics, etc.) any competent dentist knows that.

4. his posterior determinant of occlusion (the condyle) is a fixed value (15 to 30 degrees) you are controlling only the anterior determinant (cingulum and incisal edges of max incisors). if his posterior determinant is shallow how will you be able to give him a perrmanent restoration without customizing the anterior guidance in protrusion to create a mutually protected occlusion.

5. how will you design the anterior guidance even with a semi adjustable articulator and check bites in protrusison as the semi adjustable is on a staright line so only gives you 2 points ( so your cingulum is flat)

6. what facebow will u use kinematic or arbritary to increase accuracy

7. how will u insure immediate disclusion in dynamic occlusion but in CR the anterior teeth just missing.

Base on what OP posted. Is it a complex case? most likely not. We don't know whether he has any other problems. Overkill. Who r u trying to impress? Predent students?

ok i need some prices on some procedures, i hate my teeth and its been a long goal to be able to fix them and get that perfect smile (they are not horrible but i want to have the best smile i can).

first procedure i want to know how much it costs to get my teeth laser whitened.

Second procedure i have a big gap between my front two teeth, they are kinda bigger than my other teeth, so i want to close this gap

I hope some people have picked info up in this thread.

yup, it's called misdiagnosed and bad tx plan, trying to impress others at the patient's expense. Sorry, not me! your "running room" didn't impress me either. You went on and on and yet, fail to mention Ortho as a possible tx. Are u a FIRST yr?

 

[lnn2]

Well single crowns and 3 unit bridges here and there typically don't need to be mounted in CR with semi/fully adjustable articulators since you will probably build the patient into MIP as all of their previous restorations were built that way. I guess what you are getting with a prosthodontist is the treatment planning skills. There are a lot of good GPs skillwise, but when it comes to TX planning and what the literature supports, many of them are lacking. If I personally needed anything more than a crown, I would go to a reputable prosthodontist. What program are you in by the way? PM me.

I second that!

 

[GQ1]

yep so im only a year ahead of you, but im trying to show that first year pros is well ahead of general dentists even years after theyve graduated.
im saying u need several appointments maybe a couple of sets of temps to see how the pt adapts to your guidance

I've learn a lot from here! NOT
This is a very simple case. Chief complaint: disastema, not happy w. his smile/esthetic of his teeth.

Failed post? base on what? What does an "ovate pontic" have to do w. this case? Don't u think an implant would be a better option instead of grinding down #7,#9 for your ovate pontic? You're making things more complicated than they actually are.
Of course u need temps if u're prep-ing the tooth for a crown/venners. U can't let the pt walks out w.out a temp.

You just don't grind a tooth down and slap a crown on without checking everything related to the restoration as needed (margins, occlusion, disclusion, protrusion, excursion, anterior/K9 guidance, esthetics, etc.) any competent dentist knows that.



Base on what OP posted. Is it a complex case? most likely not. We don't know whether he has any other problems. Overkill. Who r u trying to impress? Predent students?



yup, it's called misdiagnosed and bad tx plan, trying to impress others at the patient's expense. Sorry, not me! your "running room" didn't impress me either. You went on and on and yet, fail to mention Ortho as a possible tx. Are u a FIRST yr?

 

[Supernumerary]

They (prosthodontists) dont go to residency for an extra 3 years to learn how to prep they go to tx plan for the most complex cases and how to direct the rest of the dental specialist.

My point exactly... the most complex cases. From what it sounds like this will be ridiculously simple. In normal cases, a couple of crowns or veneers on 8 and 9 are NOT going to have any noticable effect on occlusion unless the dentist is completely incompetent.

I don't know what you're blathering on about fully adjustable articulators for. All that stuff is great, and it's a good thing we have prosthodontists who know how to use it properly, but even the most obsessive prosthodontist is not going to go through all that trouble to veneer 8 and 9.