High sGPA, low cGPA, aced MCAT - where do I stand

[Marcion]

Hi guys,


So I'm a nontrad applicant - I've been getting my science courses through a post-bacc program after getting an MA in sociology (which got me interested in public health). My undergrad GPA isn't so hot since I wasn't nearly as focused or disciplined back then - it comes out to 3.1, ~3.3 when you average in my post-bacc courses. My sGPA (and post-bacc GPA) is a 3.85 however seeing as all my science courses were taken in the post-bacc program, where I excelled. I received my MCAT score back today and I have a 520, which floored me.


I'm trying to figure out if I'm competitive for top schools. I have ~200 hours of clinical volunteering, ~100 hours of other volunteering, 30 hours of shadowing, and research experience on two projects from my time in graduate school, one of which was pure public health research. I'm planning to get a job as a lab tech over my glide year in order to get more research experience.


That MCAT score is 98th percentile… I feel like it could make up a lot for my mediocre undergrad grades. Where do y’all think I stand? Do I have a shot at top schools?

Thanks

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[Banco]

Top schools? Tough to say with that discrepancy - but I think the higher recent grades, great sGPA and terrific MCAT give you a strong case to make. MD overall though? Yeah you have a good shot I think.

What you should do is apply to all tiers of schools. If you want to aim for top schools by all means add them, but be sure to have a good amount of more realistic options as a foundation.

 

[Pastamahn]

While that MCAT score is very very good (congrats by the way) the problem is that for top schools, you will be competing with students who achieved similar MCAT scores while also holding a near 4.0 without any academic lapses. So I agree with Banco that you could apply to some top tiers, but I would also apply broadly to maximize the chances of an MD acceptance.

 

[Marcion]

Top schools? Tough to say with that discrepancy - but I think the higher recent grades, great sGPA and terrific MCAT give you a strong case to make. MD overall though? Yeah you have a good shot I think.

What you should do is apply to all tiers of schools. If you want to aim for top schools by all means add them, but be sure to have a good amount of more realistic options as a foundation.

This is my current list (I'm technically still a TX resident but I live in Illinois):

Dream schools:
NYU
Columbia
Pritzker
Baylor
Wash U
Sinai

Decent Shot:
Feinberg (been getting my post-bacc at Northwestern and rec letters from profs here so I feel like this gives me an edge compared to other top schools)
UTMB
UTSW
U of Houston
Loyola (did my MA here)
Rush
UT San Antonio
Dell??? (not sure how a new school falls admissions-wise)
UTRGV??? (ditto)

Safeties:
Tulane
TX Tech
TX A&M
VA Tech
Creighton
U Vermont
Hofstra
Drexel

 

[Banco]

That's a pretty good list for you. Def apply to all TX schools.

Also consider: Rosalind Franklin, Temple, Jefferson, Einstein

 

[Marcion]

That's a pretty good list for you. Def apply to all TX schools.

Also consider: Rosalind Franklin, Temple, Jefferson, Einstein

Ros Frank WAS on my list till I realized that they require a biochem lab as a prereq... which doesn't exist in my program OR in regular NW undergrad as far as I can tell. They accept independent research credits instead... but apparently, getting a full-time job as a lab tech like I'm planning isn't an acceptable substitute. Their loss, I guess. I'll take a look at the other schools you listed.

 

[Goro]

I recommend the following:

Duke
Columbia
Case
Vanderbilt
UCSF (yes, UCSF)
Tulane
Albany
NYMC
Your state schools
The Philly Triplets
Gtown
GWU
Rush
Creighton
Rosy Franklin
Loma Linda (but read their list of don'ts)
MCW
St. Louis U
WVU
Creighton
Loyola
Wake Forest
EVMS
VCU
Any DO program

 

[gyngyn]

You need to apply to all the TX schools.
They will be your best bet by far.
Many schools do not interview TX applicants since so few of them leave the state (only 193 last year).

 

[Marcion]

You need to apply to all the TX schools.
They will be your best bet by far.
Many schools do not interview TX applicants since so few of them leave the state (only 193 last year).

I'm in an odd position where I'm a pseudo-resident of two states.

According to TX residency rules, I am a resident, since I arranged myself to be claimed as a dependent by my resident parents on this year's taxes. OTOH, my driver's license and voting registration are in IL. Yet I am not considered a resident of IL for admissions purposes since I have not had a full-time job in IL for a full year due to school. I listed my AMCAS residency as IL and TMDSAS residency as TX for the reason you're talking about.

I'm concerned that if they dig into it deeply, they might decide I'm not a TX resident as far as they're concerned, although I do have significant ties to the state (lived there my whole life through undergrad). I want to cover all my bases by applying OOS as well.

 

[gyngyn]

I'm in an odd position where I'm a pseudo-resident of two states.

According to TX residency rules, I am a resident, since I arranged myself to be claimed as a dependent by my resident parents on this year's taxes. OTOH, my driver's license and voting registration are in IL. Yet I am not considered a resident of IL for admissions purposes since I have not had a full-time job in IL for a full year due to school. I listed my AMCAS residency as IL and TMDSAS residency as TX for the reason you're talking about.

I'm concerned that if they dig into it deeply, they might decide I'm not a TX resident as far as they're concerned, although I do have significant ties to the state (lived there my whole life through undergrad). I want to cover all my bases by applying OOS as well.

I would consider this very carefully.
TX is very picky about applicants who appear to be gaming the residency issue and there is significant cross talk between the two systems.

 

[Banco]

If you have a choice, definitely keep TX residency!

 

[WedgeDawg]

Presuming that your Texas residency remains valid, your best bet would be to apply to all the TX schools and then 5-10 reach schools. This will minimize the amount of money you spend on apps and time you spend on secondary essays while giving you your best shot at getting into the best possible school. Don't apply to schools you wouldn't go to over a TX school.

 

[Marcion]

I would consider this very carefully.
TX is very picky about applicants who appear to be gaming the residency issue and there is significant cross talk between the two systems.

I was under the impression that the systems did not talk to each other very much. Good to know.

What should I do then? If I had a choice I would rather go to one of my dream schools. I'd also rather go to one of the Chicago schools over someplace like TX Tech considering I have way more of a support network of friends here. My fear is that if I change my AMCAS residency to TX, I'll get excluded from non-TX schools, but TX might decide I'm not a resident anyway and then I'd be screwed applying to TX as well.

How much weight do the top schools give to TX residency?

 

[Marcion]

An additional wrinkle is that UT San Antonio, A&M, and TX Tech want more upper level bio credits than I currently have. To ensure matriculation there I need to take two additional courses over the coming year when I plan to be working full time.

 

[gyngyn]

How much weight do the top schools give to TX residency?

I sympathize with your situation.
The stats speak for themselves. Of all the over 2000 TX matriculants, only 193 left TX. I'll bet most of them earned a hefty signing bonus to do so.
Over the years we have stopped interviewing them unless we believe we can offer them a sufficient sum to lure them away (not too often).
I believe they designed the TX system to achieve exactly this result. Others are envious.

 

[Marcion]

I decided to check the stats by looking at this table.

Of all 3870 TX applicants in 2014, 36.6% (1418) went in-state. 5.0% (193) went OOS. And 58.4% (2259) did not matriculate anywhere at all! That is an IS:OOS ratio of about 7:1. It's also comparable to states like SC, SD, AK, and NE (all around 7:1) and better than LA (10 to 1!). Likely the size of TX partially weighs the rankings... but the percent of applicants going instate in TX is only slightly higher than the average for the South (32.2%) and the Midwest (30.4%). The regional ratios for both are around 3:1 IS:OOS. It seems that in most other states in these regions, more people get in somewhere, period, by going OOS.

Is being a resident of the above states or regions also considered the kiss of death for OOS applications? Or is there something more going on here (other than in-state tuition rates)?

At what stage is residency verified? My impression was that it was mostly done by the schools involved. And also that TMDSAS and AMCAS did not talk to each other as they are two different systems. I feel like going all-in for TX by changing my AMCAS residency would be something of a gamble since IDK if it will assure me TX residency for TMDSAS. Does TX give preference to OOS applicants with strong IS ties? I'm thinking it's possibly safer to just change my TMDSAS residency to IL.

 

[gyngyn]

It is a well known fact that TX applicants stay in TX (for many reasons including tuition and the separate application system). This is a disincentive to interview them.
AMCAS and TMDSAS share general reporting as well as acceptance information.

 

[Marcion]

gyngyn,

I called the admissions departments for several schools on my list today to try to see if I could learn a little more about this anti-TX interviewing incentive. Universally they said they had never heard of such a thing. Is it possible this is something that's more peculiar to your school, or the UC system perhaps? Given how competitive I hear the UC system is it would make sense for them to have a few more weed-out criteria, especially since they want OOS students willing to pay OOS tuition rates.

-Marcion

 

[gyngyn]

gyngyn,

I called the admissions departments for several schools on my list today to try to see if I could learn a little more about this anti-TX interviewing incentive. Universally they said they had never heard of such a thing. Is it possible this is something that's more peculiar to your school, or the UC system perhaps? Given how competitive I hear the UC system is it would make sense for them to have a few more weed-out criteria, especially since they want OOS students willing to pay OOS tuition rates.

-Marcion

I'm pretty sure our front desk would say exactly the same thing!
Just look at the outcomes, admissions deans are quite aware of the low yield from TX.

 

[Marcion]

Great. I feel like a guy playing poker in the dark with unmarked cards.

Do you know who else I could talk to about this to learn more? I'm not discounting what you're saying, it just appears that nearly all the information about this I can find on the Internet seems to consist of your own various posts on SDN. I'd like to be able to confirm from someone IRL if I can.

 

[ZedsDed]

Great. I feel like a guy playing poker in the dark with unmarked cards.

Do you know who else I could talk to about this to learn more? I'm not discounting what you're saying, it just appears that nearly all the information about this I can find on the Internet seems to consist of your own various posts on SDN. I'd like to be able to confirm from someone IRL if I can.

Look at the stats!

 

[GrapesofRath]

The more input you can get about your residency sitaution from those in the know the better. Ask other ADCOMs. This is a tough situation. However, based off what you said " you said you are not considered a resident of Illinois" but you still listed yourself as an Illinois resident on your AMCAS? That doesn't sound like a good decision.

If you have lived in Texas your whole life and went to undergrad there, I don't think that is gaming the system. Now, what matters is what schools think but I think it could still be worth listing the TX residency status, going about the Texas school app and seeing how it goes. Maybe some schools consider it "gaming" the system and others don't. But listing yourself as an Il resident when you said you aren't one doesn't sound like the move.

What I will say is it is absolutely true that lower tiers are less likely to take a Texas applicant. However, what about top tiers? @gyngyn does this bias still hold true? Do the top schools really worry about TX residents staying in-state to schools that are often a lower tier than theres? Because I know TX applicants who are considered competitive for top schools still apply to those top schools; I just wonder they are viewed by top schools.

If there isn't as much bias at top schools they keep the ones on Goros list and run with them in addition to applying to the Texas ones. Duke, Columbia, Vanderbilt, USCF perhaps even Case could all count as top schools.

Let's see what gyngyn has to say but that could be one possibility if in fact top schools don't really discriminate against Texas applicants as much.

 

[gyngyn]

The more input you can get about your residency sitaution from those in the know the better. Ask other ADCOMs. This is a tough situation. However, based off what you said " you said you are not considered a resident of Illinois" but you still listed yourself as an Illinois resident on your AMCAS? That doesn't sound like a good decision.

If you have lived in Texas your whole life and went to undergrad there, I don't think that is gaming the system. Now, what matters is what schools think but I think it could still be worth listing the TX residency status, going about the Texas school app and seeing how it goes. Maybe some schools consider it "gaming" the system and others don't. But listing yourself as an Il resident when you said you aren't one doesn't sound like the move.

What I will say is it is absolutely true that lower tiers are less likely to take a Texas applicant. However, what about top tiers? @gyngyn does this bias still hold true? Do the top schools really worry about TX residents staying in-state to schools that are often a lower tier than theres? Because I know TX applicants who are considered competitive for top schools still apply to those top schools; I just wonder they are viewed by top schools.

If there isn't as much bias at top schools they keep the ones on Goros list and run with them in addition to applying to the Texas ones. Duke, Columbia, Vanderbilt, USCF perhaps even Case could all count as top schools.

Let's see what gyngyn has to say but that could be one possibility if in fact top schools don't really discriminate against Texas applicants as much.

Very elite schools believe that everyone wants to attend! They often have the cash to get what they want as well. I am confident that the 193 who didn't go to TX schools are more likely to be very accomplished and are in fact, at schools that offered such status and/or recruitment inducements.

 

[GrapesofRath]

Very elite schools believe that everyone wants to attend! They often have the cash to get what they want as well. I am confident that the 193 who didn't go to TX schools are more likely to be very accomplished and are in fact, at schools that offered such status and/or recruitment inducements.

A lot of top schools give out great merit money so I can easily believe that

The tougher question isn't whether Duke UCSF and Columbia think Texas residents will attend them it's the ones a little lower like Case Western Emory USC Rochester Einstein types that aren't low tiers but not at the UCSF level. Any thoughts on whether those types of schools would look at a Texas applicant and think he's not coming here we won't consider him seriously?

 

[Marcion]

The more input you can get about your residency sitaution from those in the know the better. Ask other ADCOMs. This is a tough situation. However, based off what you said " you said you are not considered a resident of Illinois" but you still listed yourself as an Illinois resident on your AMCAS? That doesn't sound like a good decision.

According to the law defining "in-state" admissions and tuition, I am not considered an IL resident, but my DL and voting registration are in IL and I currently live there.

I'm a little bit fuzzy on whether I'm considered a resident of any state for admissions purposes... I juuust barely meet the requirements for TX and that only because I arranged my tax situation for this year for just that purpose. I am worried that despite technically meeting the requirements, that if they decide to look at other things (my previous independent tax filings, DL, voting reg etc) they might decide I'm not a TX resident after all. Then I might be screwed coming and going if I put TX on my AMCAS.

 

[GrapesofRath]

Not for admissions purposes, but my DL and voting registration are in IL and I currently live there.

I'm a little bit fuzzy on whether I'm considered a resident of any state for admissions purposes... I juuust barely meet the requirements for TX and that only because I arranged my tax situation for this year for just that purpose. I am worried that despite technically meeting the requirements, that if they decide to look at other things (my previous independent tax filings, DL, voting reg etc) they might decide I'm not a TX resident after all. Then I might be screwed coming and going if I put TX on my AMCAS.

I get that. So basically you have two choices here

a) If it is possible not to list any state of residency(ask ADCOMs call AAMC and call schools about this) despite being a US resident your whole life than just apply with that. You are competitive OOS to a number of schools, I think you can be ok this route.
b) Claim Texas residency. Like I said you have lived your whole life there and went to undergrad there. We don't know how it will be interpreted but it is within the realm of possibility some of the Texas schools don't look at you as gaming the system. Maybe some do. The ones that don't you will be very competitive for and if you go this route you can limit the number of apps you send and money you spend.

 

[Marcion]

OK so I called AMCAS and TMDSAS today.

1) I told TMDSAS about previous independent tax filings etc and they made it sound like it would not matter that much. They said I should not list different things on the two apps but also said they do not communicate with AMCAS.
2)I asked AMCAS about the legal residency situation and they basically told me it was my choice. They sounded unenthusiastic about listing different things on two apps and mentioned that TMDSAS can receive materials if they request them.

As of now I'm leaning towards using TX residency on both, if I'm looking to turn down the cheap tuition it would only be because I got into one of my dream schools like U Chicago or Columbia. The only gray zone is Loyola, they have an environmental health program that is relevant to my interests, and I have connections with some faculty there, but IDK if they are top tier enough to be able to offer me much.

Should I not bother with the non-TX safeties and decent shots like Rush, Creighton, U Vermont, Drexel, etc? I would certainly prefer a cheaper TX school over any of these. At the same time I have such weird stats that I kind of want to apply to as many places as possible since I'm not sure what adcoms will make of me. For example I've seen it written elsewhere on this board that an UTMB adcom said don't bother applying unless you have a 3.7 cGPA... I am not in the situation of a typical person with a GPA under that, but still, that worries me.

 

[GrapesofRath]

OK so I called AMCAS and TMDSAS today.

1) I told TMDSAS about previous independent tax filings etc and they made it sound like it would not matter that much. They said I should not list different things on the two apps but also said they do not communicate with AMCAS.
2)I asked AMCAS about the legal residency situation and they basically told me it was my choice. They sounded unenthusiastic about listing different things on two apps and mentioned that TMDSAS can receive materials if they request them.

As of now I'm leaning towards using TX residency on both, if I'm looking to turn down the cheap tuition it would only be because I got into one of my dream schools like U Chicago or Columbia. The only gray zone is Loyola, they have an environmental health program that is relevant to my interests, and I have connections with some faculty there, but IDK if they are top tier enough to be able to offer me much.

Should I not bother with the non-TX safeties and decent shots like Rush, Creighton, U Vermont, Drexel, etc? I would certainly prefer a cheaper TX school over any of these. At the same time I have such weird stats that I kind of want to apply to as many places as possible since I'm not sure what adcoms will make of me.

Only you can answer this(and some ADCOMs if they have input for this as well). If in fact you are a TX resident as gyngyn alluded to above those low tier schools aren't worthwhile. As for deciding which state of residency to put that's your call especially in a situation like this. I will say in terms of what is more favorable state for residency no state in the country matches what TX can provide. Illinois has 3 schools that give some preference to their in-staters in Rush, Loyola and Rosalind(but still take half of the class OOS) and Illinois which is 80% IS. If you aren't from the southern part of Illinois where you get SIU, it's a solid but hardly spectacular state for admission resident purposes.

 

[Marcion]

Looking at MSAR figures on average indebtedness it seems like the Texas schools and the elite, even one or two of the mid-tier private schools seem to be around equivalent in price.

On paper the tuition at places like Columbia, U Chicago etc is higher but they seem to be pretty generous handing out the financial aid. Meanwhile it looks like at the TX schools the sticker price is more or less the sticker price.

Seems like I might have best luck targeting the TX schools and playing the lottery at the elite schools. I wish I had more options for safeties though. Any ideas on that front? VA Tech looks like it might be one, their average student debt is ~ $60k .... they must throw the financial aid around like candy over there.

 

[Banco]

Be wary of average indebtedness numbers on MSAR. They are skewed towards the lower end by rich students who have parents help them/merit scholarships/need based aid.

If you aren't rich, but aren't needy enough for need-based aid, and aren't super star enough for merit, you will be looking at loans fully funding your CoA, which can be 280k+.

 

[Marcion]

Be wary of average indebtedness numbers on MSAR. They are skewed towards the lower end by rich students who have parents help them/merit scholarships/need based aid.

If you aren't rich, but aren't needy enough for need-based aid, and aren't super star enough for merit, you will be looking at loans fully funding your CoA, which can be 280k+.

How needy is needy? Looking at Harvard's page for example, they disregard the EFC for anyone whose parents make less than 100k a year. I'm not privy to their finances but I'm fairly certain my parents are around or just above that line. They cut off a percentage of EFC for several grades of income above that up to $150k. Given how low the avg indebtedness is ($97k... geez) and that 79% of students get some financial aid, it can't be that bad to go there. Unless a disproportionate number of Harvard students get their bills entirely paid off by mom and dad... which... doesn't sound 100% unlikely actually :/ Sneaky MSAR... a median number would be so much more useful. Guess I need to do some more digging and see if I can determine how applicable that number really is...

 

[ZedsDed]

How needy is needy? Looking at Harvard's page for example, they disregard the EFC for anyone whose parents make less than 100k a year. I'm not privy to their finances but I'm fairly certain my parents are around or just above that line. They cut off a percentage of EFC for several grades of income above that up to $150k. Given how low the avg indebtedness is ($97k... geez) and that 79% of students get some financial aid, it can't be that bad to go there. Unless a disproportionate number of Harvard students get their bills entirely paid off by mom and dad... which... doesn't sound 100% unlikely actually :/ Sneaky MSAR... a median number would be so much more useful. Guess I need to do some more digging and see if I can determine how applicable that number really is...

You're spoiled! Haha. Tx has insanely low tuition for her IS students. I don't think you're going to get a better deal than Tx can give you, which is why most of ya'll stay in Tx!

 

[Marcion]

You're spoiled! Haha. Tx has insanely low tuition for her IS students. I don't think you're going to get a better deal than Tx can give you, which is why most of ya'll stay in Tx!

It's looking better and better....
Harvard Class of 2014 Range of Debt: $8,500 - $257,495

That is.... quite the range Oh to be on the left side of that distribution though...

I still wish I had more options for safeties though, I'm worried that my cGPA might get me filtered by a computer...

 

[Banco]

How needy is needy? Looking at Harvard's page for example, they disregard the EFC for anyone whose parents make less than 100k a year. I'm not privy to their finances but I'm fairly certain my parents are around or just above that line. They cut off a percentage of EFC for several grades of income above that up to $150k. Given how low the avg indebtedness is ($97k... geez) and that 79% of students get some financial aid, it can't be that bad to go there. Unless a disproportionate number of Harvard students get their bills entirely paid off by mom and dad... which... doesn't sound 100% unlikely actually :/ Sneaky MSAR... a median number would be so much more useful. Guess I need to do some more digging and see if I can determine how applicable that number really is...

Some schools have more money to give around (aka grants); the tough part is to get into those schools. So it comes down to the same predicament for you: TX schools or some OOS school that offers prestige/money. Being in TX is a great deal, don't give that up - you're overthinking it.

Notice Harvard has a unit loan of ~30k - that means you must borrow that much in loans (minimum) per year before they can offer you any need-based grants.

 

[Doug Underhill]

You're above Creighton and Drexel's 90th percentile for MCAT, and both of those schools practice yield protection.

 

[Marcion]

You're above Creighton and Drexel's 90th percentile for MCAT, and both of those schools practice yield protection.

LOL, so I could get screened out at some schools because one of my numbers is too low and others cause one of my numbers is too high? What a very special admissions process med schools have!

 

[Marcion]

Hi all,

So, with a heavy heart, I'm bumping this thread so that hopefully I can get some advice on how to proceed.

Based on the advice in this thread, I applied to the following schools. I was complete everywhere late August-early Sept. I'll put my status at each next to each based on the calls I made today.
UT SW - Status: Interviews end 3rd week of Jan, no II yet. Looking bad.
UTMB - Interviews ended this week, so basically rejected but they haven't bothered to inform me yet.
NYU - Rejected.
Feinberg - Silence. Interviews end in Feb.
U Chicago - Silence. Interviews end in early Feb.
Baylor - Pre-interview hold (I think)
UT Dell - Pre-interview hold (probably)
U Houston - Interviews end in Jan, no II yet. Looking bad.
UT San Antonio - My one and only II! Recieved mid-Oct, interviewed just this last weekend. I think it went well but I won't know until Jan.
Columbia - Silence. Interviews end early Feb.
Sinai - Silence. Interviews end mid Feb.
Wash U - Silence. Interviews end end of Feb.
A&M - Basically rejected like UTMB.
Loyola - Pre-interview hold (I think).
Johns Hopkins - Rejected.
Texas Tech - Basically rejected like UTMB.
VA Tech - Silence. Interviews through Feb.
Stanford - Rejected.
Cornell - Rejected.
UCSF - Survived secondary screening, got secondary in Dec, yet to hear back. Interviews through March.
Vanderbilt - Weeded out pre-secondary.
Albert Einstein - Silence. Interview season "extended" this year.
Case Western - Silence. Interviews till end of Feb.
Harvard - Silence.
Emory - Silence. Interviews to end of Feb.

I don't know what to do. There can't be any egregious red flags in my app or I would not have received my one II from UT San Antonio. My fear is that this is the result of getting automatically canned for my low cGPA at elite schools and automatically yield protected for my high MCAT at non-elite schools. IDK what I should do, if I don't get any more II before, like, the middle of January, it is going to look grim. I think I did well at my one interview but who can say really?

I'm trying hard not to feel discouraged. I really thought my 98% MCAT would get me love at more places.

What can I do to improve my app? I'm currently working as an MCAT tutor for Next Step Test Prep; I'm tutoring students and writing practice questions for their exams. I've been continuing my tutoring work at Northwestern and expanding my hours there. I'm also going to be starting volunteering at a neighborhood clinic in Jan. I could potentially start volunteering at a research project at Northwestern, as well. Is there really anything else I can do? At this point there's not much I can do about my cGPA given all the other courses weighing down the average. The MCAT and sGPA are all I could hope for. So it seems like maybe ECs are the only area I can work on. This is super discouraging though. I have my fingers crossed for San Antonio but I am worried about having only one egg in my basket. Should I apply to DO schools? There's enough time left in the year to hear more from them, and the DO rep who came to NU said that their app cycle runs later. I really don't want to have to wait another year.

 

[ZedsDed]

My fear is that this is the result of getting automatically canned for my low cGPA at elite schools and automatically yield protected for my high MCAT at non-elite schools. .

@gyngyn What do you think an applicant in this predicament should do?

 

[GrapesofRath]

Well the best solution here is to ace the interview at San Antonio and become a doctor. Fortunately for you there are many people every year who are distraught by their lack of IIs but who do well in the few they get so it becomes irrelevant.

OP the easiest questions to ask are
A) when did you apply
B) what do you feel the main theme of your app was ie the main selling point that would make ADCOMs want to vouche for you? If you don't have a good answer to this question that is revealing
C) How confident did you feel about your LORs?

I do second ZedsDeds idea to get people far more involved in the process than any of us to give you input

 

[Marcion]

Well the best solution here is to ace the interview at San Antonio and become a doctor. Fortunately for you there are many people every year who are appalled by their lack of IIs but who do well in the few they get so it becomes irrelevant.

OP the easiest questions to ask are
A) when did you apply

Complete everywhere late Aug-early Sept due to a letter writer who took his sweet time. Most secondaries were in by mid-Aug.

B) what do you feel the main theme of your app was ie the main selling point that would make ADCOMs want to vouche for you? If you don't have a good answer to this question that is revealing

That I'm interested in what makes people tick and want to use that passion to tangibly help people.

C) How confident did you feel about your LORs?

OK. I had one from a doctor I shadowed, one from my grad school advisor, one from a grad school prof, one from a former boss on my research project, and two from science profs. One of the science profs turned out to be a real gun-jumper who assumed that I could have only learned that his letter was missing a letterhead (which Einstein emailed me about and AMCAS confirmed) by violating the confidentiality agreement... so he is out for next year.

 

[SpoiledMilk]

Edit

 

[Marcion]

Depending on when you graduated undergrad, if ten years or more, and you have Tx residency, consider Texas Academic Fresh Start to get rid of your underperforming undergrad GPA while keeping your post-bacc grades.

http://www.collegeforalltexans.com/index.cfm?objectid=6D10C9BD-DD24-153F-90B91DA6C20D1C97

TMDSAS considers it:

https://www.tmdsas.com/medical/texasAcFrshStrt.html

I'm not THAT old, lol.

 

[gyngyn]

@gyngyn What do you think an applicant in this predicament should do?

This is indeed, a pickle. It confirms the strong TX predilection for undergrad gpa.
These schools do have a strong commitment to addressing the points of remediation that would bring an applicant back stronger, if a re-application were necessary.

 

[GrapesofRath]

This is indeed, a pickle. It confirms the strong TX predilection for undergrad gpa.
These schools do have a strong commitment to addressing the points of remediation that would bring an applicant back stronger, if a re-application were necessary.

Do you think this might in anyway be related to what you said above several months ago?
"TX is very picky about applicants who appear to be gaming the residency issue and there is significant cross talk between the two systems".

Could it be possible the TX schools are seeing the OP as "gaming" the system and OOS schools see him as a TX applicant very unlikely to actually go there? And when you combine both it puts the OP in a very tough spot if this is the case

Of course none of this matters if OP gets into San Antonio. The OOS schools dont really strike me as a cause for concern; these top schools get way too many applications with 520+ MCATs they can afford to be picky with weaker GPAs/ECs. The Texas schools are where I think the focus should be for the OP.

 

[gyngyn]

Do you think this might in anyway be related to what you said above several months ago?
"TX is very picky about applicants who appear to be gaming the residency issue and there is significant cross talk between the two systems".

Could it be possible the TX schools are seeing the OP as "gaming" the system and OOS schools see him as a TX applicant very unlikely to actually go there? And when you combine both it puts the OP in a very tough spot if this is the case

This, I cannot say.

 

[GrapesofRath]

This, I cannot say.

Is there a way the OP could go about trying to find out if this might be the case if they were interested? I'd imagine most schools would be rather tight lipped about a concern like this.


As for what DougUnderhill said every school can intepret the idea of "gaming" the system differently. San Antonio giving a II doesnt with certainty mean other schools dont have any concern about it; there's simply no way of knowing. I also wouldn't make any sweeping claims about cGPA being far more important than sGPA for Texas based off some n=1 in general. Although gyngyn's input about GPA carrying alot of weight in Texas is yet again seen true with this example.

Vandy also pre screens pretty heavily from what I know. 3.8/35 type applicants getting rejected pre screen is just par the course.

 

[Doug Underhill]

The Vandy pre-secondary screen screened out a 520? I'm surprised about that. I had an idea about how it worked, but it's clearly wrong.

I was worried about an outcome like this occurring. This applicant's unfortunate lack of success seems to indicate that cGPA does seem to be more important than sGPA for getting interviews, at least in TX. The 10th percentile cGPA on MSAR for the TX schools are all 3.39 or higher. UTMB is incredibly brutal in this regard, with a 10th percentile of 3.7, which is comparable to Harvard.

Since they got 1 interview, I don't think schools are worried about them gaming the system.

 

[gyngyn]

Is there a way the OP could go about trying to find out if this might be the case if they were interested? I'd imagine most schools would be rather tight lipped about a concern like this.


As for what DougUnderhill said every school can intepret the idea of "gaming" the system differently. San Antonio giving a II doesnt with certainty mean other schools dont have any concern about it; there's simply no way of knowing. I also wouldn't make any sweeping claims about cGPA being far more important than sGPA for Texas based off some n=1 in general. Although gyngyn's input about GPA carrying alot of weight in Texas is yet again seen true with this example.

Vandy also pre screens pretty heavily from what I know. 3.8/35 type applicants getting rejected pre screen is just par the course.

It's hard to imagine that they would admit it (if it were the case).

 

[Cawolf]

The Vandy pre-secondary screen screened out a 520? I'm surprised about that. I had an idea about how it worked, but it's clearly wrong.

I got rejected pre-secondary from there with a low cGPA and high MCAT. So it must be a theme!

 

[Doug Underhill]

I feel like it's the cGPA instead of any kind of red flag about residency. Statistics show that those schools just don't admit very many students with a sub 3.4 cGPA.

OK. I had one from a doctor I shadowed, one from my grad school advisor, one from a grad school prof, one from a former boss on my research project, and two from science profs. One of the science profs turned out to be a real gun-jumper who assumed that I could have only learned that his letter was missing a letterhead (which Einstein emailed me about and AMCAS confirmed) by violating the confidentiality agreement... so he is out for next year.

I remember that topic. Perhaps all of these little issues may add up, unfortunately.