High-volume brachytherapy centers

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Grubbe-a-dub-dub

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Having a challenging localized penile cancer case. I think it might be amenable to brachytherapy.

Are there any centers in the US doing these with good experience and volume? On the same topic, any place offering H&N brachytherapy for oral cavity cancers?

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Send em to Mumbai!

Tata treats 150 a year

Haha. But yah I don’t know who would be good at that
 
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Agree - I have friends practicing in India that I would love to refer the patient to, but unfortunately, that's not an option.
 
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I was just in a similar situation. It was a curbside (for now) and I told them get the patient to either Boston or Sloan. Given how uncommon this is...sorry if I'm the one who set this in motion.

But yeah, external beam is technically an option. In residency I did it once for positive margins and...yeah. Yeah.
 
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Memorial Hermann
 
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Would consider getting on the phone with the GU brachytherapist at whatever tertiary care centers are closest to your location. If you need help identifying, feel free to PM me where you're thinking about referring and I'll try to assist.
 
Juanita Crook, although in Canada, probably has more experience than anyone alive
 
Having a challenging localized penile cancer case. I think it might be amenable to brachytherapy.

Are there any centers in the US doing these with good experience and volume? On the same topic, any place offering H&N brachytherapy for oral cavity cancers?
Details of case?
 
You didn't give many details but I have a serious love/hate relationship with these cases. I have not personally done brachytherapy for a penile cancer but do quite a few for inferior vaginal/recurrent vulvar cancers which are about the closes thing to it. On the one hand, if you enjoy the process of placing catheters and working with your hands, these cases are great. Its so gratifying to get a good placement and you can do so much for these just by feel. The problem is that necrosis is super duper common as the true squamous epithelium is just not very forgiving. Slow and steady is the key. The biggest limitation that I face is that I don't have LDR sources anymore. In some of these situations, its probably the better way to go and even I would send them out.
 
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I am torn also. Brachytherapy can seem like an elegant solution that requires great skill.

On the other hand, aren't we sadly in the era of non-inferiority trials, the primacy of 'biology' and 'standardization'? If the cause of penile cancer is HPV and 'experts' are enthusiastically embracing dose deescalation for viral mediated oropharyngeal and anal cancer, shouldn't external beam be easier and non-inferior for this rare cancer?
 
Some details, late 70's gentleman with a ~4cm lesion on the glans that was debulked (non-oncologic excision) with positive margins. No lymph nodes on imaging. Refusing penectomy.

I'll run some of these possibilities by the patient and see how far he's willing to go (figuratively and literally).

Thank you all for your help.
 
I am torn also. Brachytherapy can seem like an elegant solution that requires great skill.

On the other hand, aren't we sadly in the era of non-inferiority trials, the primacy of 'biology' and 'standardization'? If the cause of penile cancer is HPV and 'experts' are enthusiastically embracing dose deescalation for viral mediated oropharyngeal and anal cancer, shouldn't external beam be easier and non-inferior for this rare cancer?
IO doesn't look like a winner in most patients
 
Some details, late 70's gentleman with a ~4cm lesion on the glans that was debulked (non-oncologic excision) with positive margins. No lymph nodes on imaging. Refusing penectomy.

I'll run some of these possibilities by the patient and see how far he's willing to go (figuratively and literally).

Thank you all for your help.
I have treated external beam through and through in a water bath for multifocal squam of the glans. Patient prone, custom setup and opposed laterals with daily imaging. Alternative was penectomy. Complete response with telangiectasias and some asymptomatic edema long term (patient with no complaints),

Nodes definitely need a good looking over with a 4cm lesion.
 
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External beam is an option.
I am torn also. Brachytherapy can seem like an elegant solution that requires great skill.

On the other hand, aren't we sadly in the era of non-inferiority trials, the primacy of 'biology' and 'standardization'? If the cause of penile cancer is HPV and 'experts' are enthusiastically embracing dose deescalation for viral mediated oropharyngeal and anal cancer, shouldn't external beam be easier and non-inferior for this rare cancer?
No. EBRT is inferior to brachytherapy in localized disease (<4cm) in terms of local control. There is some evidence (all retrospective) on that matter.
 
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Some details, late 70's gentleman with a ~4cm lesion on the glans that was debulked (non-oncologic excision) with positive margins. No lymph nodes on imaging. Refusing penectomy.

I'll run some of these possibilities by the patient and see how far he's willing to go (figuratively and literally).

Thank you all for your help.
Several issues here.

1. The patient has not had sentinel lymph node biopsy or inguinal lymph node dissection. Whoever did that "debulking", has already screwed this case up.
This patient should have invasive lymph node staging. I know some of you will say "Why not simply give an elective dose to the inguinal nodes?"
The answer is simple: it's possibly overtreatment or undertreatment. If he ends up being pN0, he doesnt need RT and if he ends up being pN+, he may need chemo in addition.

2. Lesions >4cm have less favorable results with brachytherapy, than those <4cm.

3. Penectomy may not be the only surgical option. Who advised for penectomy? Has the patient seen a urologist, familiar with penile cancer management?
 
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Do any places in the US do these with any regularity? I know Memorial does a decent amount of prostate brachy, but I can’t imagine they see penile cancer much. Maybe somewhere that sees resource poor patients?
 
1400 cases nationally and there is no centralized region that has more than others, except “poor”.

I doubt anyone is an expert, but large centers probably have most cases
 
1400 cases nationally and there is no centralized region that has more than others, except “poor”.

I doubt anyone is an expert, but large centers probably have most cases
Good thing my board certification process involved multiple questions around penile cancer then. Oh and also vaginal cancer.

That's why I was highly confident in my recommendation to "call Sloan" last week when I was curbsided.
 
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Several issues here.

1. The patient has not had sentinel lymph node biopsy or inguinal lymph node dissection. Whoever did that "debulking", has already screwed this case up.
This patient should have invasive lymph node staging. I know some of you will say "Why not simply give an elective dose to the inguinal nodes?"
The answer is simple: it's possibly overtreatment or undertreatment. If he ends up being pN0, he doesnt need RT and if he ends up being pN+, he may need chemo in addition.

2. Lesions >4cm have less favorable results with brachytherapy, than those <4cm.

3. Penectomy may not be the only surgical option. Who advised for penectomy? Has the patient seen a urologist, familiar with penile cancer management?

Agree - I'm not sure the urologist knew what he got himself into when he did the case. Very common - surgeons approach cases they probably should have sent elsewhere (think the incidental lump that's removed non-oncologically that turns out to be a sarcoma, derm that clearly should not have attempted mohs on that crazy looking skin lesion, the plastic surgeon doing unnecessary reconstruction on a locally advanced breast cancer, the list goes on).

And agree, another higher-volume private practice urologist in the metro city suggested penectomy. Unfortunately, the only thing I've seen him do is robotic prostatectomies, that's how he's built his reputation.

As a rad onc, I'm the monkey in the middle. You have to play nice with everyone without coming off like a know it all jerk. This is the way.
 
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You're the smartest guy in the room. But you never tell anyone. In fact, you do everything to play it down... unless of course, you get challenged. Then you bring out the big stick, maybe once or twice a year, and that shuts everyone up. They murmur and nod, and your work is done.. until the next FNG idiot steps into your radonc ring 6 months from now.

Heck, you even try talking like the surgeons so you'll be one of the cool kids. You buddy up with the radiologist, who you keep on speed dial. Sure, you and the medonc can hang a bit, but he's busy and you're not. He makes 2x what you do, but he really earns it. Plus, you have no idea what he's talking about with all those immuno drugs. He often forgets to do a staging scan, which you gently offer.. or even better, orders a PET scan for serial followup.. to which you keep your mouth shut. But at least he knows what radiation IS, unlike your peers who otherwise defer to you like a mage from ancient times, you know, they look at you with a bit of suspicion but still with respect for your magical powers.

This is you. The radiation oncologist.
 
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Some details, late 70's gentleman with a ~4cm lesion on the glans that was debulked (non-oncologic excision) with positive margins. No lymph nodes on imaging. Refusing penectomy.

I'll run some of these possibilities by the patient and see how far he's willing to go (figuratively and literally).

Thank you all for your help.

Probably needs lymph nodes evaluated. Would send him to an academic urologist to discuss non-penectomy options as well.

I think at least a discussion with an academic rad onc specializing in GU would be of value.
 
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External beam is an option.

Not a great one. I have done definitive penile and vulvar. Brutal acute and late toxicity. Necrosis and lymphedema. Make sure they know what they are getting into and really really sure they don't want to travel when the local surgeons won't touch them.
 
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I will say that I have seen a penile cancer completely disappear with upfront IO, allowing for more adjuvant-y treatment. Still brutal.
 
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I will say that I have seen a penile cancer completely disappear with upfront IO, allowing for more adjuvant-y treatment. Still brutal.
Thats fortunate. I've only done a few but I am pretty sure they all progressed distantly in pretty short order. Hopefully IO will do better at controlling distant disease than traditional chemo.
 
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You're the smartest guy in the room. But you never tell anyone. In fact, you do everything to play it down... unless of course, you get challenged. Then you bring out the big stick, maybe once or twice a year, and that shuts everyone up. They murmur and nod, and your work is done.. until the next FNG idiot steps into your radonc ring 6 months from now.

Heck, you even try talking like the surgeons so you'll be one of the cool kids. You buddy up with the radiologist, who you keep on speed dial. Sure, you and the medonc can hang a bit, but he's busy and you're not. He makes 2x what you do, but he really earns it. Plus, you have no idea what he's talking about with all those immuno drugs. He often forgets to do a staging scan, which you gently offer.. or even better, orders a PET scan for serial followup.. to which you keep your mouth shut. But at least he knows what radiation IS, unlike your peers who otherwise defer to you like a mage from ancient times, you know, they look at you with a bit of suspicion but still with respect for your magical powers.

This is you. The radiation oncologist.
Hahahahahahahaha

As I say often - I come to SDN because then I know I'm not alone in my experiences.

Though they're retiring, if you take jobs out in the community, you'll find a bunch of established docs in their 60s who are borderline worshipped. As a side note - the dynamics in Mad Men are still very much in play outside of metro areas.

So you walk into the TRULY "Good Ole Boy" club and they're just doing...wacky stuff.

Your mission, which you must accept to have a job, is to tiptoe around a social/power system that has been in place since Carter was president, trying to keep patients within some version of a Category 2B standard of care, without upsetting the frail egos of the elderly white coats still haunting the hallways.

Example: literally 3 days ago I was summoned for an inpatient consult, Stage III lung. I thought I was setting the patient up for definitive treatment.

Nope. Patient presented with acute SOB and respiratory failure, intubated in ED. No chest imaging other than portable X-ray to check tube placement. No D-dimer or anything like that. ECHO was WNL and LE Dopplers didn't show clot so...it's the lung cancer.

So I show up almost a week later (when they first called me). The conversation is palliative XRT or straight to hospice.

Patient at this time has been extubated, sitting comfortably in the chair on the floor. Also had a sputum culture positive for microbial infection around the time of admission.

Me: "Wait...tachycardic, SOB, intubated in the ED, known malignancy, now back at 97% on room air...no CT chest??? How about before we pull hospice out, we get a chest CT?"

Wouldn't you know - it showed a PE even a week later!

#RadOncRocks
 
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You're the smartest guy in the room. But you never tell anyone. In fact, you do everything to play it down... unless of course, you get challenged. Then you bring out the big stick, maybe once or twice a year, and that shuts everyone up. They murmur and nod, and your work is done.. until the next FNG idiot steps into your radonc ring 6 months from now.

Heck, you even try talking like the surgeons so you'll be one of the cool kids. You buddy up with the radiologist, who you keep on speed dial. Sure, you and the medonc can hang a bit, but he's busy and you're not. He makes 2x what you do, but he really earns it. Plus, you have no idea what he's talking about with all those immuno drugs. He often forgets to do a staging scan, which you gently offer.. or even better, orders a PET scan for serial followup.. to which you keep your mouth shut. But at least he knows what radiation IS, unlike your peers who otherwise defer to you like a mage from ancient times, you know, they look at you with a bit of suspicion but still with respect for your magical powers.

This is you. The radiation oncologist.
I saw this on a job board once
 
You're the smartest guy in the room. But you never tell anyone. In fact, you do everything to play it down... unless of course, you get challenged. Then you bring out the big stick, maybe once or twice a year, and that shuts everyone up. They murmur and nod, and your work is done.. until the next FNG idiot steps into your radonc ring 6 months from now.

Heck, you even try talking like the surgeons so you'll be one of the cool kids. You buddy up with the radiologist, who you keep on speed dial. Sure, you and the medonc can hang a bit, but he's busy and you're not. He makes 2x what you do, but he really earns it. Plus, you have no idea what he's talking about with all those immuno drugs. He often forgets to do a staging scan, which you gently offer.. or even better, orders a PET scan for serial followup.. to which you keep your mouth shut. But at least he knows what radiation IS, unlike your peers who otherwise defer to you like a mage from ancient times, you know, they look at you with a bit of suspicion but still with respect for your magical powers.

This is you. The radiation oncologist.

This is a little too spot on
 
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Zietman at MGH. A skilled brachytherapist and a wise clinician.
 
^^ I remember when he was at the beginning. Nice enough, but being in the right place and being ingratiating will take you far was my first, and final, impression. Anyone who likes to hear their voice in perpetuity (ie audio record reading the red journal) is just.. just too much for me anyway.
 
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You're the smartest guy in the room. But you never tell anyone. In fact, you do everything to play it down... unless of course, you get challenged. Then you bring out the big stick, maybe once or twice a year, and that shuts everyone up. They murmur and nod, and your work is done.. until the next FNG idiot steps into your radonc ring 6 months from now.

Heck, you even try talking like the surgeons so you'll be one of the cool kids. You buddy up with the radiologist, who you keep on speed dial. Sure, you and the medonc can hang a bit, but he's busy and you're not. He makes 2x what you do, but he really earns it. Plus, you have no idea what he's talking about with all those immuno drugs. He often forgets to do a staging scan, which you gently offer.. or even better, orders a PET scan for serial followup.. to which you keep your mouth shut. But at least he knows what radiation IS, unlike your peers who otherwise defer to you like a mage from ancient times, you know, they look at you with a bit of suspicion but still with respect for your magical powers.

This is you. The radiation oncologist.

And now, as read by Peter Griffin: Peter Griffin_1.mp3
 
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