Higher-ranked University for Premed? (UW Madison vs. Vanderbilt?)

[Laurenn9]

Hi everyone! I'm a rising high school senior and aspiring physician & I have to decide which undergrad institution I will be attending after I graduate high school. My ultimate goal is to get into a top 20 medical school. So my question is: would it be better to go to a more middle-tier school where I could excel or a higher-ranked institution where I wouldn't be the top of my class? I'm aware that the UG name carries little weight in medical school admissions process, but could my decision be important for the rest of my medical career? (I'm fortunate enough that money is not a huge factor, and I don't care about weather too much)
Middle-tier school (UW Madison*)
Pros:
I would be one of the "smarter" students (75+ percentile for ACT/GPA)
Less competition
Better grades- could maintain a higher GPA (since in many courses, sciences especially, grades are determined based on the performance of other students in the class)
Less stressful
Cons:
Doesn't have the same recognition as a higher ranked school (which won't necessarily make much difference for med school acceptance, but it will always be on my resume for future employers and potential patients to see)
Larger classes, less individualized attention
Harder to get to know professor/get a good med school rec
Higher-ranked school (Vanderbilt U)
Pros:
Smaller classes
Greater opportunity to get to know teachers/get good rec
Motivation to work harder
Has greater recognition as a top institution
I would have a higher likelihood of getting into Vanderbilt's med school (UG bias), which is in the top 20 med school
Cons:
I would be one of the "dumber" students (25-50 percentile ACT/GPA)
More competition
Would most likely have a lower GPA than at Madison (but will the reputation of the school account for that in the admission process?)
More stressful
Both schools have copious research/extracurricular opportunities, so I should be fine at either school in that respect.
Thanks so much!
*I know UW Madison isn't exactly middle-tier, but you get what I mean.

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[superpom_7]

Hi everyone! I'm a rising high school senior and aspiring physician & I have to decide which undergrad institution I will be attending after I graduate high school. My ultimate goal is to get into a top 20 medical school. So my question is: would it be better to go to a more middle-tier school where I could excel or a higher-ranked institution where I wouldn't be the top of my class? I'm aware that the UG name carries little weight in medical school admissions process, but could my decision be important for the rest of my medical career? (I'm fortunate enough that money is not a huge factor, and I don't care about weather too much)
Middle-tier school (UW Madison*)
Pros:
I would be one of the "smarter" students (75+ percentile for ACT/GPA)
Less competition
Better grades- could maintain a higher GPA (since in many courses, sciences especially, grades are determined based on the performance of other students in the class)
Less stressful
Cons:
Doesn't have the same recognition as a higher ranked school (which won't necessarily make much difference for med school acceptance, but it will always be on my resume for future employers and potential patients to see)
Larger classes, less individualized attention
Harder to get to know professor/get a good med school rec
Higher-ranked school (Vanderbilt U)
Pros:
Smaller classes
Greater opportunity to get to know teachers/get good rec
Motivation to work harder
Has greater recognition as a top institution
I would have a higher likelihood of getting into Vanderbilt's med school (UG bias), which is in the top 20 med school
Cons:
I would be one of the "dumber" students (25-50 percentile ACT/GPA)
More competition
Would most likely have a lower GPA than at Madison (but will the reputation of the school account for that in the admission process?)
More stressful
Both schools have copious research/extracurricular opportunities, so I should be fine at either school in that respect.
Thanks so much!
*I know UW Madison isn't exactly middle-tier, but you get what I mean.

I really don't think it would matter as long as you have a good GPA, great MCAT, EC's, LOR's, and the other requirements and pre-reqs. Where you go for undergrad probably, more than likely, has little impact on the rest of your Medical career, especially once you get into Med School. That's what I think, at least. I could be wrong . Go to the college that you like the most, that you see yourself excelling at. I wouldn't go to a college just because of the name or because it may increase chances of getting into Med School. But of course it's ultimately your decision, and I wish you the best of luck .

 

[FutureOncologist]

Here's a scenario. Student A has a 3.8 GPA with a B.A. in Biochemistry from a middle-tier university and Student B has a 3.8 GPA from Harvard that got a B.A. in Biochemistry. What the hell is the difference to an adcom? The answer is the MCAT. The MCAT will pretty much determine if Student A got a better education at middle-tier state than student B at Harvard. Of course you have volunteering, ECs, etc. but really it's up to you.

 

[redpanda]

Between these two schools, it does not matter. Go where you think you will have the best opportunities in undergrad. Going to Vanderbilt because you want to go to their medical school is probably not going to turn into reality (aka because you went to Vanderbilt UG, you have an advantage in med school admissions). On a personal note, I have never heard anyone (undergrad or graduate student and above) say they were unhappy in Madison. It seems like an awesome place to live.

 

[Time Table]

The only higher-ranked University you should be concerned with is Ivy-league. Other than that, just go wherever you find a place that you'll succeed in. A 3.8 at a lower ranked university will almost always get in over a 3.6 at a higher ranked university assuming everything else is the same. But just because you think you're going to a place that is lower-ranked, you don't know that you'll get the highest GPA. Talk to the students during your campus tour and see how they feel about the place. That'll give you a more accurate description. Also top 20 schools look for research and publications. So if you're really looking to get into one, it's highly suggested that you look for a research-heavy or even a research-oriented school that publishes its students work in journals.

 

[BarneyisBaloney]

Having been to many interviews:

It absolutely matters what undergraduate university you went to...For the most selective schools (UCSF, Mayo, JHU), I'm sure some people made it from lesser known schools...but during my interview days, only the top 30-50ish were EVER represented

That's my experience from a dozen interviews mostly at top tier places...but even UWSMPH had only 1-2 ppl (out of 25) who came from a lower ranked college than UW-Madison

 

[Apollo1]

I would be one of the "smarter" students (75+ percentile for ACT/GPA)

Less competition

Better grades- could maintain a higher GPA (since in many courses, sciences especially, grades are determined based on the performance of other students in the class)

Less stressful

I feel that your reasons are based off of a bad premise. How do you know that you'll be one of the smarter students, that there will be less competition, that you'll have better grades and less stress? Assuming that you'll be above others because your admissions stats are higher is a probable way to being pimp'd when you matriculate.

In my n=x, it's best to assume (in every class) that everyone else is smarter than you. Resting on laurels that are not applicable to the college classroom won't serve you well.

 

[efle]

1) Being at a top undergrad matters a lot to private medical schools according to AAMC's survey, where it's ranked highest importance along with GPA and MCAT

2) Being at a top undergrad may damage your GPA a lot relative to a nationally average university, on average it can hurt your GPA by at least 0.6 according to Wustl's MCAT/GPA data vs national MCAT/GPA data. However, UWMad is an above-average school so the difference will probably not be that huge, and there are of course always people at the top schools who come in with approx. median ACT score but wind up near the top of their class. When the undergrad's ACT range spans only the 98-99th percentiles everyone has a good shot at A's

In the end you've got to decide how much you trust your abilities and how badly you want to surround yourself with the strongest possible peer group

 

[Smurfette]

Neither of these schools will give you a disadvantage in med school admissions, assuming you do well in college. Both have solid reputations; adcoms are not going to toss UW student apps away in comparison to Vandy if stats are similar. Neither will employers, unless they are looking only for Ivy. Do not assume that you would have a higher GPA at one over the other...if you are taking premed classes you will be competing against other talented students, many of whom had stats equal or better than yours.

My advice would be to see which is financially better for you....I doubt you will find your career opportunities will be limited by either option, so pick the one that has less debt. That way if you go to med school or grad school down the road, you have less debt accruing interest over the years, especially since it would be 11+ years before you would be practicing and making $.

 

[efle]

Neither of these schools will give you a disadvantage in med school admissions, assuming you do well in college. Both have solid reputations; adcoms are not going to toss UW student apps away in comparison to Vandy if stats are similar. Neither will employers, unless they are looking only for Ivy. Do not assume that you would have a higher GPA at one over the other...if you are taking premed classes you will be competing against other talented students, many of whom had stats equal or better than yours.

My advice would be to see which is financially better for you....I doubt you will find your career opportunities will be limited by either option, so pick the one that has less debt. That way if you go to med school or grad school down the road, you have less debt accruing interest over the years, especially since it would be 11+ years before you would be practicing and making $.

Vandy has scores rivaling HYP, >>>>> Madison. UWMad is a better known name among laypeople but you can't really call the student bodies equivalent

 

[Smurfette]

Vandy has scores rivaling HYP, >>>>> Madison. UWMad is a better known name among laypeople but you can't really call the student bodies equivalent

As far as getting into med school or graduate school (which is the OP's concern), both schools will get the OP there. I didn't say the UG student bodies were equivalent; Wisconsin will have a wider range of incoming students (the undergrad student body is also 4-5x bigger). However, once you narrow the OP's competition down to those who are motivated premeds taking similar classes, the student range within those classes skews to the top.

 

[efle]

As far as getting into med school or graduate school (which is the OP's concern), both schools will get the OP there. I didn't say the UG student bodies were equivalent; Wisconsin will have a wider range of incoming students (the undergrad student body is also 4-5x bigger). However, once you narrow the OP's competition down to those who are motivated premeds taking similar classes, the student range within those classes skews to the top.

You stated in 2-3 ways that there would be no or negligible difference (bump in application attractiveness/prestige, GPA) which seems unsupported, as the 25th percentile for Vandy is > 75th percentile at UWMad and at both schools the prereqs will quickly select for the more capable students. Having a larger class says nothing about difficulty

 

[Smurfette]

You stated in 2-3 ways that there would be no or negligible difference (bump in application attractiveness/prestige, GPA) which seems unsupported, as the 25th percentile for Vandy is > 75th percentile at UWMad and at both schools the prereqs will quickly select for the more capable students. Having a larger class says nothing about difficulty

Sigh. You are not seeing the forest through the trees. The OPs goal is to get into med school. Both schools will get her there as both have solid reputations. One has students with higher stats, yes. If she wants to go to an Ivy League med school, that's all about prestige, and pedigree matters. Not everybody cares about that or has that as their primary goal. To get into a good med school, either place can get her there if she does well. I have no dog in this fight; I'm done and in practice. Will let you carry on here.

 

[mcworbust]

I cannot comment on Vandy as I have no experience there, but I wanted to share some info (below) about why UW-Madison is a great choice for undergrad for a premed, copied from a reply I had in another thread (mostly cuz I'm lazy and have about 2 mins free)...tldr = go to UW-Madison! Also, I have friends and classmates from my time at UW at Harvard, JHU, etc for med school, so it certainly is possible. Finally, money is always important - you mention "fortunately money is not a factor", so assuming parents will be paying for UG, try and convince them to set aside the amount you'd pay at Vandy, attend UW-Madison, and have that much left over for med school (or a down payment on your first house, or whatever). Congrats on having 2 great choices!

Hope you find the below helpful:

You would be hard pressed to find an undergrad with a better combo of fun, academics, and successful sports teams with a beautiful campus to boot! My wife, brother, and I (resident, rising M3, and rising M1, respectively) turned down acceptances at "more prestigious" undergrads to come to UW-Madison, and it was unequivocally the best decision I have ever made!

1) How supportive are the professors and pre-health advisors? Are they generally open to helping students when needed?

Professors overall are very supportive, both from courses and in research labs on campus. If you want a smaller college feel and are going to major in bio or one of the sciences, consider joining the Biocore (honors biology) program - the program director and professors are extremely invested in student success and go out of their way to help each student realize their full potential. However, Biocore also happens to be very difficult, to the point where I felt some Biocore courses were as tough as some of my med school courses. Needless to say, the program provides a solid science foundation, and so will the regular track (Bio 151/152) option. Don't do Bio 101/102/Botany 130 - this is bull**** and med schools know its bull**** and it won't give you the foundation you need for the MCAT and beyond.

Unfortunately, in all of our experiences (my wife, brother, and me), the pre health advising is worthless. I was told I would never go to medical school after a freshman fall GPA of 3.4. Obviously, that was not true, as I did well the rest of my undergraduate career. Rely on SDN and older matriculating students for advice, but take everyone's advice with a grain of salt, no matter where it comes from (unless it is from a med school Adcom - their word is law!). Hopefully they have improved the premed advising since I was at UW-Madison, but I doubt it.

2) How competitive are the classes, and what are the average curving grades set to?

Mildly competitive, usually curve is around a B, BC, or C, depending on class and prof. Use Ratemyprofessor.com to look up profs and determine what classes to take based on those reviews to ensure you avoid the really difficult ones!

3) What is the overall environment like for pre-medical students (aka cutthroat, relaxed/supportive, etc)?

Not too cutthroat....supportiveness depends on the friends group(s) you establish - basically if you are a nice normal chill person you will have no problem making friends and finding a group to work with in whatever class you are in, as most students want to be collaborative. Again, the pre-med advisers don't really know what they're talking about, although maybe they will have gotten better by the time you start and/or need their help.

4) Besides academics, what else at Wisconsin has helped you stand out as a pre-med to medical schools? What are the pros and cons of the school?

UW-Madison has endless volunteer opportunities, leadership opportunities, research opportunities, and clinical opportunities. Everything you'd ever need to be an excellent applicant is right at your fingertips - you just have to go and get it. Also, there is a great work hard - play hard attitude at the school, which makes for a balanced lifestyle and normal people. Normal people interview well, whereas socially inept students who know how many ceiling tiles are in their favorite study room at their library usually don't come across as positively in interviews. As someone who has interviewed lots of applicants and helped shape the admissions criteria at my school, I want students who can relate to people, who I would like to work with, and who I could trust with the care of a family member (and, if research is a part of their application, I'd want students who I would be excited to collaborate with on a research project). UW-Madison has the resources and opportunities to develop the type of person who can be all of these things. However - the go-getters will take advantage of all that UW-Madison has to offer, while more timid (or directionless) students may get lost along the way or slip through the cracks.

I honestly can't think of any cons - my 4 years at UW-Madison consisted of constant, unbridled joy, and I wouldn't change a single thing about my experience! If given a chance to do it again, I would do everything exactly the same way.

5) Also, last but not least, would you say that the party aspect is a concern? I'm not a big partier, but at the same time, don't want to be left out of the social scene.

The party aspect is a huge positive part about UW-Madison. Work hard/play hard. You will not be left out of the social scene as long as you live in dorms your freshman (and +/- sophomore) year and live with friends for the reset of your time at UW-Madison. Learning how to have fun is important, as it will help balance you out, keep you sane, and be less of a robot.

Congrats again, and On Wisconsin!!!

 

[efle]

I cannot comment on Vandy as I have no experience there, but I wanted to share some info (below) about why UW-Madison is a great choice for undergrad for a premed, copied from a reply I had in another thread (mostly cuz I'm lazy and have about 2 mins free)...tldr = go to UW-Madison! Also, I have friends and classmates from my time at UW at Harvard, JHU, etc for med school, so it certainly is possible. Finally, money is always important - you mention "fortunately money is not a factor", so assuming parents will be paying for UG, try and convince them to set aside the amount you'd pay at Vandy, attend UW-Madison, and have that much left over for med school (or a down payment on your first house, or whatever). Congrats on having 2 great choices!

Hope you find the below helpful:

You would be hard pressed to find an undergrad with a better combo of fun, academics, and successful sports teams with a beautiful campus to boot! My wife, brother, and I (resident, rising M3, and rising M1, respectively) turned down acceptances at "more prestigious" undergrads to come to UW-Madison, and it was unequivocally the best decision I have ever made!

1) How supportive are the professors and pre-health advisors? Are they generally open to helping students when needed?

Professors overall are very supportive, both from courses and in research labs on campus. If you want a smaller college feel and are going to major in bio or one of the sciences, consider joining the Biocore (honors biology) program - the program director and professors are extremely invested in student success and go out of their way to help each student realize their full potential. However, Biocore also happens to be very difficult, to the point where I felt some Biocore courses were as tough as some of my med school courses. Needless to say, the program provides a solid science foundation, and so will the regular track (Bio 151/152) option. Don't do Bio 101/102/Botany 130 - this is bull**** and med schools know its bull**** and it won't give you the foundation you need for the MCAT and beyond.

Unfortunately, in all of our experiences (my wife, brother, and me), the pre health advising is worthless. I was told I would never go to medical school after a freshman fall GPA of 3.4. Obviously, that was not true, as I did well the rest of my undergraduate career. Rely on SDN and older matriculating students for advice, but take everyone's advice with a grain of salt, no matter where it comes from (unless it is from a med school Adcom - their word is law!). Hopefully they have improved the premed advising since I was at UW-Madison, but I doubt it.

2) How competitive are the classes, and what are the average curving grades set to?

Mildly competitive, usually curve is around a B, BC, or C, depending on class and prof. Use Ratemyprofessor.com to look up profs and determine what classes to take based on those reviews to ensure you avoid the really difficult ones!

3) What is the overall environment like for pre-medical students (aka cutthroat, relaxed/supportive, etc)?

Not too cutthroat....supportiveness depends on the friends group(s) you establish - basically if you are a nice normal chill person you will have no problem making friends and finding a group to work with in whatever class you are in, as most students want to be collaborative. Again, the pre-med advisers don't really know what they're talking about, although maybe they will have gotten better by the time you start and/or need their help.

4) Besides academics, what else at Wisconsin has helped you stand out as a pre-med to medical schools? What are the pros and cons of the school?

UW-Madison has endless volunteer opportunities, leadership opportunities, research opportunities, and clinical opportunities. Everything you'd ever need to be an excellent applicant is right at your fingertips - you just have to go and get it. Also, there is a great work hard - play hard attitude at the school, which makes for a balanced lifestyle and normal people. Normal people interview well, whereas socially inept students who know how many ceiling tiles are in their favorite study room at their library usually don't come across as positively in interviews. As someone who has interviewed lots of applicants and helped shape the admissions criteria at my school, I want students who can relate to people, who I would like to work with, and who I could trust with the care of a family member (and, if research is a part of their application, I'd want students who I would be excited to collaborate with on a research project). UW-Madison has the resources and opportunities to develop the type of person who can be all of these things. However - the go-getters will take advantage of all that UW-Madison has to offer, while more timid (or directionless) students may get lost along the way or slip through the cracks.

I honestly can't think of any cons - my 4 years at UW-Madison consisted of constant, unbridled joy, and I wouldn't change a single thing about my experience! If given a chance to do it again, I would do everything exactly the same way.

5) Also, last but not least, would you say that the party aspect is a concern? I'm not a big partier, but at the same time, don't want to be left out of the social scene.

The party aspect is a huge positive part about UW-Madison. Work hard/play hard. You will not be left out of the social scene as long as you live in dorms your freshman (and +/- sophomore) year and live with friends for the reset of your time at UW-Madison. Learning how to have fun is important, as it will help balance you out, keep you sane, and be less of a robot.

Congrats again, and On Wisconsin!!!

A for effort but matriculation decisions were due last week I think

Edit: Also this thread was from summer 2014 and the applicant said she was "a rising high school senior"...which means she hadn't even applied yet. Who knows if she got in to Vandy and UWMad

 

[mcworbust]

A for effort but matriculation decisions were due last week I think

Edit: Also this thread was from summer 2014 and the applicant said she was "a rising high school senior"...which means she hadn't even applied yet. Who knows if she got in to Vandy and UWMad

Oh haha I missed the boat on all of that - didn't see timing of initial post, didn't realize decisions were due last week, and didn't realize the timeline would not be in line with having both acceptances in hand at the time thread was made. I guess whenever the weather gets nice, my nostalgia increases