How do people feel about OMM at your school?

[yanks26dmb]

What do people say about OMM at your school?

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[jordansetron]

I feel like alot of my classmates have a "throw the baby out with the bathwater" perspective. They will learn 10 techniques, 9 of them will have an obvious medical application, but the 1 that is questionable will make them second guess the entire thing. Something not too many people think about is when you're practicing on someone else in your class, they are likely to be a healthy 20 something without significant anatomical dysfunctions...so when they dont "feel" what theyre supposed to diagnose, they think its a bunch of hooey. Personally I recognize the benefit of OMM, but some techniques are either too difficult to perform/learn effectively as a student or the patient population that would benefit is too narrow.

Do I think its a joke? no, but they should nix some of the techniques from the curriculum in order to focus on the ones that can be more effective for the most people

 

[The_Sunny_Doc]

It takes too much time to learn how to do the techniques properly. We already have so much on our plate with the rest of our classes that the 2-3 hour labs, practicals, and assignment are more of a nuisance than anything else.

The 2 heads of the department are tremendously talented, but there are only 2 of them and 80 of us in each lab session. We simply don't receive adequate 1-on-1 instruction from people who know what they're doing. The TAs and physician helpers don't seem to have the background to teach the techniques properly, even if they know how to do it in the clinic.

Truly unfortunate, as most of us were very enthusiastic about the subject starting out.

 

[Goro]

Yanks, word to the wise: You've posted in the past where you've been accepted and attending.

Stuff like this would get you pulled in front of my own school's Student Conduct Committee (or whatever they're calling it nowadays); so watch out for yours.

Just sayin'.

 

[asdf123g]

Yanks, word to the wise: You've posted in the past where you've been accepted and attending.

Stuff like this would get you pulled in front of my own school's Student Conduct Committee (or whatever they're calling it nowadays); so watch out for yours.

Just sayin'.

sooo big brother like..

 

[Rekt]

Yanks, word to the wise: You've posted in the past where you've been accepted and attending.

Stuff like this would get you pulled in front of my own school's Student Conduct Committee (or whatever they're calling it nowadays); so watch out for yours.

Just sayin'.

I can't imagine staff are completely oblivious towards some students feelings about OMM.

 

[Goro]

The OMM/OMT faculty at my school have very acute radar on this subject.

I can't imagine staff are completely oblivious towards some students feelings about OMM.

 

[QualityProcess]

its not big brother like. faculty are not spying on your conversations at home. the internet is not a safe, private area for you to rant about your professors.

 

[kenjixshadow]

The OMM/OMT faculty at my school have very acute radar on this subject.

Goro, how do you personally feel and react when you incidentally hear that some of your students badmouth on the subjects of your teaching?
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OP, some of my classmates react the same way as your, nevertheless, I feel neutral on this subject and don't speak of such taboo. Idk about your school, but mine is very heavily emphasizing of "professionalism" and this would put you on the blacklist. Anyway, I suggest of dealing with it and move on with fortitude.

 

[Goro]

I usually tell them to keep an open mind, and try to learn something useful.

Goro, how do you personally feel and react when you incidentally hear that some of your students badmouth on the subjects of your teaching?
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OP, some of my classmates react the same way as your, nevertheless, I feel neutral on this subject and don't speak of such taboo. Idk about your school, but mine is very heavily emphasizing of "professionalism" and this would put you on the blacklist. Anyway, I suggest of dealing with it and move on with fortitude.

 

[kbeitz]

I like it a lot more than I thought I would having only read SDN. There is a place for much of it in medical curriculum.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I can't imagine staff are completely oblivious towards some students feelings about OMM.

They really aren't. My professor pretty much openly jokes about it.

Honestly, I'm very happy that someone is doing OMM. I think for people with real back pain and other issues it's helpful. But the way we're learning it in COM and the way it is taught simply doesn't make me feel all too good about it. I feel like when it comes down to it, it has become another hoop to jump through on the way to graduating.

I think though as I progressively get better at OMM I begin to like it a bit more. So I guess I'll come back to assessing OMT/OMM when I'm done with year two?

 

[yanks26dmb]

Yanks, word to the wise: You've posted in the past where you've been accepted and attending.

Stuff like this would get you pulled in front of my own school's Student Conduct Committee (or whatever they're calling it nowadays); so watch out for yours.

Just sayin'.

Thanks Goro.

I'm not saying this is how I necessarily feel. Just what I hear from classmates.

 

[kalat]

The majority of the people at my school are interested in OMM. I think the OMM faculty are wonderful, and I also think they are very considerate in choosing which techniques to teach us and how to teach them (i.e. trying to be as scientific and high yield as possible). The problem, however, is that as medical students we have to put our basic sciences first. You can be the best at OMM and fail out or do badly on the boards. There's not enough time for most students. It's a matter of priority. This is why I believe it should be part of graduate medical education (or an optional pre-clinical add-on) for those who wish to pursue it for osteopathic distinction. It literally has nothing to do with "do I like OMM" when I think about it. It's more "how important is it - objectively - in comparison to everything else happening." If you start to understand OMM you understand how time consuming it is to get good at the techniques. I think a lot of the time the faculty misconstrue this as dismissing OMM, but it's really not the case.

 

[TheBoneDoctah]

The majority of the people at my school are interested in OMM. I think the OMM faculty are wonderful, and I also think they are very considerate in choosing which techniques to teach us and how to teach them (i.e. trying to be as scientific and high yield as possible). The problem, however, is that as medical students we have to put our basic sciences first. You can be the best at OMM and fail out or do badly on the boards. There's not enough time for most students. It's a matter of priority. This is why I believe it should be part of graduate medical education (or an optional pre-clinical add-on) for those who wish to pursue it for osteopathic distinction. It literally has nothing to do with "do I like OMM" when I think about it. It's more "how important is it - objectively - in comparison to everything else happening." If you start to understand OMM you understand how time consuming it is to get good at the techniques. I think a lot of the time the faculty misconstrue this as dismissing OMM, but it's really not the case.

This x100000000

 

[Zaphod42]

What do people say about OMM at your school?

I would say the majority find a lot of the techniques useful especially for musculoskeletal problems. Many are skeptical however regarding areas such as cranial.

Yanks, word to the wise: You've posted in the past where you've been accepted and attending.

Stuff like this would get you pulled in front of my own school's Student Conduct Committee (or whatever they're calling it nowadays); so watch out for yours.

Just sayin'.

Not sure if he edited the original comment but any school that does this is an embarrassment to academia. The idea that questioning the validity of a treatment modality can land you in trouble goes against everything that science stands for. Medicine would not have progressed to where it is now if this type of thinking had prevailed.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

This x100000000

I think moving more OMT, especially the more specialized stuff to GME or rotations is ideal. It lets us get the key concepts and basics so we can go from there while also allowing ppl with vested interests to pursue it.

 

[Launcelot]

Our OMM department is pretty wonderful, actually. Many of the faculty are double-boarded in NMM/OMM with another specialty or have had careers in other specialties before switching over to full-time NMM/OMM. Everyone one of our faculty is from a different osteopathic medical school (8 in all, I think), so you can also see the slightly different approach that each faculty member has to a treatment modality. Also, they paced the curriculum to coincide or at least follow up with what we are doing in anatomy.

The curriculum is very functional, and we can also get additional practice during first year in taking comprehensive histories, conducting osteopathic exams, and presenting cases to faculty during a weekly after school clinic put on by the OMM department alongside OMS-IIs and IIIs.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Yanks, word to the wise: You've posted in the past where you've been accepted and attending.

Stuff like this would get you pulled in front of my own school's Student Conduct Committee (or whatever they're calling it nowadays); so watch out for yours.

Just sayin'.

Then your entire SCC staff needs to be fired for not understanding what freedom of speech is. Worse for being academically and intellectually close minded to criticism about treatment modalities.

 

[RoyalMule]

.

 

[Goro]

It's one thing to be critical about unproven claims.

It's another thing entirely to bitch about on a public forum.

Just sayin'

Then your entire SCC staff needs to be fired for not understanding what freedom of speech is. Worse for being academically and intellectually close minded to criticism about treatment modalities.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

It's one thing to be critical about unproven claims.

It's another thing entirely to bitch about on a public forum.

Just sayin'

Then we are in disagreement. I think "bitching" is something protected. Medical students, myself included, constantly "bitch" about many aspects of our education, but I feel that if we weren't talking about OMM, this wouldn't be something that escalated to SCC. OMM is not sacred or should be insulated from criticism. I also don't think that being a public forum has any relevance. Are we only to comment on things inside an insulated community? Shouldn't the public know that certain treatment modalities are questioned?

What most troubles of all of this though is that Yanks has never publicly stated his name. If a school really took the time to investigate who is behind a screenname (no matter how obvious he/she makes it), that tantamounts to persecution. Maybe schools should find these students and sit with them to learn about how they can make education better. I've been a very vocal critic of my own school, but one thing I can say that's positive is that my school actually looks for feedback and all signs point that they are trying to reform the curriculum to help students. I would be seriously concerned if my school took the position of sanctioning students and damaging their residency prospects because the school believes their job is to be the thought police.

 

[Goro]

Remember, remember the rescindment of November!

And check your student handbook for policies relating to online behavior. You might be surprised.

Then we are in disagreement. I think "bitching" is something protected. Medical students, myself included, constantly "bitch" about many aspects of our education, but I feel that if we weren't talking about OMM, this wouldn't be something that escalated to SCC. OMM is not sacred or should be insulated from criticism. I also don't think that being a public forum has any relevance. Are we only to comment on things inside an insulated community? Shouldn't the public know that certain treatment modalities are questioned?

What most troubles of all of this though is that Yanks has never publicly stated his name. If a school really took the time to investigate who is behind a screenname (no matter how obvious he/she makes it), that tantamounts to persecution. Maybe schools should find these students and sit with them to learn about how they can make education better. I've been a very vocal critic of my own school, but one thing I can say that's positive is that my school actually looks for feedback and all signs point that they are trying to reform the curriculum to help students. I would be seriously concerned if my school took the position of sanctioning students and damaging their residency prospects because the school believes their job is to be the thought police.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Remember, remember the rescindment of November!

And check your student handbook for policies relating to online behavior. You might be surprised.

That person was not a student. He had an acceptance, which is conditional. He also made his racist comments using his real name on facebook. Racist commentary and "bitching about OMM" are very different things.

It doesn't matter what the student handbook says. The moment you go about persecuting students and finding out who is behind a screenname, you are in the wrong.

 

[jl lin]

I agree with free speech entirely. The problem is, private organizations, schools, and other entities do not necessarily.

My question is how are they planning on IDing the person for exercising his free speech, however restrained by a particular entity's private policy, if it has been ruled that IP-addresses do not equal persons and thus could obstruct a ‘fair’ legal process? If you cannot use an IP directed to a zip code as an ID, how would the school take on any reprisals--even if the person had used his supposed real name and school? They could try, but it may well become very legally problematic for them. There is nothing to prove a particular IP is absolutely that person--that is, that another person is or is not presuming by proxy someone else's personhood.

Of course, I am totally anti-fascism and anti-socialism--of any kind, so. . .

Having said all that, I think it balanced to present both the +s and -s of OMM. I mean ultimately everyone will make up his/her own opinion on it.

Does anyone think that learning this also can strengthen one's learning of anatomy to some degree--at least from a musculoskeletal perspective?

 

[Launcelot]

It doesn't matter what the student handbook says. The moment you go about persecuting students and finding out who is behind a screenname, you are in the wrong.

While you might reserve your right to free speech, the school reserves the right to mediate the terms of your conduct while you conditionally agree to attend their school. So I'd totally tread lightly on hot topics even while on SDN for everybody's sake. As soon as you are a licensed physician though, criticize away! Plus your word would carry a lot more and you'd be able to take leadership and research positions that matter to make those changes.

I agree with free speech entirely. The problem is, private organizations, schools, and other entities do not necessarily.

Does anyone think that learning this also can strengthen one's learning of anatomy to some degree--at least from a musculoskeletal perspective?

Yes, I agree with both!

 

[yanks26dmb]

For what it's worth, I'm not saying OMM is BS. Was just commenting on opinions I've noticed amongst other students and was wondering how it was at other schools.

My own personal opinion on OMM is essentially there are certain things I like, certain things I don't, and if I didn't have a massive amount of other work to do, I'd spend more time getting better at OMM.

I feel comfortable saying that and essentially told my advisor that (minus the comment about other students) a few weeks ago.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

While you might reserve your right to free speech, the school reserves the right to mediate the terms of your conduct while you conditionally agree to attend their school. So I'd totally tread lightly on hot topics even while on SDN for everybody's sake. As soon as you are a licensed physician though, criticize away! Plus your word would carry a lot more and you'd be able to take leadership and research positions that matter to make those changes.


Yes, I agree with both!

If I recall correctly, behavior outside of school and not representing the school cannot be punished by a school. Also, proving someone is the person behind a screen name is hard. All I know is the legal challenge to the school would be huge, especially if it's over "we don't like students criticising their academics."

 

[Mehd School]

I'm not a fan, for many reasons. It's an unnecessary time sink (less so than last year). There's no standardization. If you go ask 5 DO's how they treat something you'll get 5 different answers. I talked to a good friend who went to a DO school on the other side of the country and in the first two years only about 60% of what we learned was actually the same.

Most of my class seems indifferent. We all understand it's something we have to get through, so we put in our weekly 45 minutes and go home. Maybe cram the night before a practical and then immediately forget about it. A few (6 or so) are really hyped about it, and I absolutely hate when I have one of them as a parter during lab.

 

[NurWollen]

Remember, remember the rescindment of November!

 

[Postictal Raiden]

I'm not a fan, for many reasons. It's an unnecessary time sink (less so than last year). There's no standardization. If you go ask 5 DO's how they treat something you'll get 5 different answers. I talked to a good friend who went to a DO school on the other side of the country and in the first two years only about 60% of what we learned was actually the same.

Most of my class seems indifferent. We all understand it's something we have to get through, so we put in our weekly 45 minutes and go home. Maybe cram the night before a practical and then immediately forget about it. A few (6 or so) are really hyped about it, and I absolutely hate when I have one of them as a parter during lab.

What school is this? At my school, we do 4hrs/week!!!

 

[Launcelot]

What school is this? At my school, we do 4hrs/week!!!

We got 3 hrs/week on average!

 

[feeling-dizzy]

I'm not a fan, for many reasons. It's an unnecessary time sink (less so than last year). There's no standardization. If you go ask 5 DO's how they treat something you'll get 5 different answers. I talked to a good friend who went to a DO school on the other side of the country and in the first two years only about 60% of what we learned was actually the same.

Most of my class seems indifferent. We all understand it's something we have to get through, so we put in our weekly 45 minutes and go home. Maybe cram the night before a practical and then immediately forget about it. A few (6 or so) are really hyped about it, and I absolutely hate when I have one of them as a parter during lab.

weekly 45 mins? You are so lucky. We spend at least 3-4 hrs class time each week; that is not to mention constant assessment/compentency/practical etc. What is a waste of time, that is. Oh well, I already made my choice, now it is time to pay

 

[FistLength]

In the beginning I imagined taking A.T. Still past his anatomical barrier, but my view has now softened with OMM. The faculty is really great, they are passionate about OMM but are realistic with what students care about (aka not OMM). Most people appreciate muscle energy and simple techniques...once you go into chapmans points and unilateral sacral flexion...things can get less jovial.

 

[jl lin]

I'm not a fan, for many reasons. It's an unnecessary time sink (less so than last year). There's no standardization. If you go ask 5 DO's how they treat something you'll get 5 different answers. I talked to a good friend who went to a DO school on the other side of the country and in the first two years only about 60% of what we learned was actually the same.

Most of my class seems indifferent. We all understand it's something we have to get through, so we put in our weekly 45 minutes and go home. Maybe cram the night before a practical and then immediately forget about it. A few (6 or so) are really hyped about it, and I absolutely hate when I have one of them as a parter during lab.

See, that's the thing. How long (time & practice/experience) would it actually take to become safely proficient? In general, school programs don't actually give students time to become proficient in any clinical skills---perhaps basically so in doing a "comprehensive" physical examination. Truth is, it takes time outside of the school to move through the stages of novice, proficient, to expert.

 

[HotLunch96]

.

 

[wjs010]

I'm not a fan, for many reasons. It's an unnecessary time sink (less so than last year). There's no standardization. If you go ask 5 DO's how they treat something you'll get 5 different answers. I talked to a good friend who went to a DO school on the other side of the country and in the first two years only about 60% of what we learned was actually the same.

Most of my class seems indifferent. We all understand it's something we have to get through, so we put in our weekly 45 minutes and go home. Maybe cram the night before a practical and then immediately forget about it. A few (6 or so) are really hyped about it, and I absolutely hate when I have one of them as a parter during lab.

What lucky school do you attend where you have 45 min once a week and can cram the night before a practical? At my school you miss more than one thing and you fail/remediate. Lol

 

[skeletor06]

Remember, remember the rescindment of November!

And check your student handbook for policies relating to online behavior. You might be surprised.

One of the basic tenets of academic freedom is the ability to discuss and even disagree with accepted academic viewpoints. Heck, that's the reason tenure for professors exists in the fist place, isn't it?. And isn't disagreement and discussion how academic advances are made? The fact that OMM faculty at certain schools have "acute radar" for dissension regarding OMM kinda reminds me of that old "if there's smoke, there's fire" adage. Bringing up students on professionalism issues for discussing or disagreeing with what they're taught (as long as they are completing the academic requirements), says to me that there's concern that the student may be right.

FWIW, my school specifically covers the right of faculty and students to academic freedom, including the type discussed here. In my opinion, as long as the student completes the academic requirements set forth by the school, academic freedom should not come into play in either professionalism or academic punitive measures.

 

[costales]

In the beginning I imagined taking A.T. Still past his anatomical barrier, but my view has now softened with OMM. The faculty is really great, they are passionate about OMM but are realistic with what students care about (aka not OMM). Most people appreciate muscle energy and simple techniques...once you go into chapmans points and unilateral sacral flexion...things can get less jovial.

I think many OMM faculty are well aware of the sentiment that the cranial stuff should be put in a museum.

 

[doapplicant2015]

I think people like to complain about as much as possible

 

[Postictal Raiden]

I'm happy to report that I just read in my school's catalog that students and faculty have the freedom to express their opinion in speech, writing and electronic communication without fear of censorship or sanction. This academic freedom is upheld as long as it doesn't violate individual rights.

 

[kalat]

One of the basic tenets of academic freedom is the ability to discuss and even disagree with accepted academic viewpoints. Heck, that's the reason tenure for professors exists in the fist place, isn't it?. And isn't disagreement and discussion how academic advances are made? The fact that OMM faculty at certain schools have "acute radar" for dissension regarding OMM kinda reminds me of that old "if there's smoke, there's fire" adage. Bringing up students on professionalism issues for discussing or disagreeing with what they're taught (as long as they are completing the academic requirements), says to me that there's concern that the student may be right.

FWIW, my school specifically covers the right of faculty and students to academic freedom, including the type discussed here. In my opinion, as long as the student completes the academic requirements set forth by the school, academic freedom should not come into play in either professionalism or academic punitive measures.

I have to agree wholeheartedly. It is better you find students from DO schools making the critiques than other avenues. That's the only way to actually have constructive progression. Intellectual freedom is certainly constrained slightly in this way.

 

[VagabondKing]

I think that the hands on approach of OMM is great and you get a ton of experience working with another living breathing human being. That in itself is worth the extra hours - the faculty have an open mind to it and they emphasize that it's not meant to be the end all treatment for everything - it's just another instrument to help with diagnosis/treatment.

As far as having to memorize the dates for when AT Still's 3 children died of meningitis (1864) eh it adds a cool bit of historical knowledge of osteopathic medicine and gives a few freebie COMLEX points so I can't complain.

 

[NurWollen]

I think that the hands on approach of OMM is great and you get a ton of experience working with another living breathing human being. That in itself is worth the extra hours - the faculty have an open mind to it and they emphasize that it's not meant to be the end all treatment for everything - it's just another instrument to help with diagnosis/treatment.

As far as having to memorize the dates for when AT Still's 3 children died of meningitis (1864) eh it adds a cool bit of historical knowledge of osteopathic medicine and gives a few freebie COMLEX points so I can't complain.

Yeah, honestly the OMM faculty at my school are some of the nicest, most laid back physicians I've met. I wouldn't be surprise it they put those historical trivia questions on tests because they know they're easy points and they're trying to be helpful.

 

[DOFOSHO]

.

 

[doapplicant2015]

What medical condition can be treated with omm? (Don't say achy back or sore feet, those aren't medical conditions)

Dysfunctional hyoid

 

[wjs010]

Dysfunctional hyoid

Lol . Sphenopalatine ganglia release

 

[DOFOSHO]

Dysfunctional hyoid

from drinking too much Kool-Aid?

 

[wjs010]

from drinking too much Kool-Aid?

Hahahahaha. Genius

 

[ortnakas]

What medical condition can be treated with omm? (Don't say achy back or sore feet, those aren't medical conditions)

Low back pain isn't a medical condition?