How hard are all the top tier medical schools to get into?

[doctorDoctor.]

Hello. First of all I want to give a disclaimer that:
1. I'm still a high school student and therefore am very ignorant on the things that may seem very obvious to most of you.
2. I'm not one of those people who shoot for brand name schools just for their prestige and degrees.
3. I'm just curious. Just curious.

How hard exactly is Harvard, Stanford, Johns Hopkins, Yale, Dartmouth, and all of those high tier medical schools?
I understand that getting into any U.S. Medical school (excluding the Caribbean) is an accomplishment, and that most medical schools have an acceptance rate of 1~3 percent, but what kind of stats would make me competitive for the best medical schools?

Would I literally need a 4.0 college GPA, 36+ MCAT, published research, hundreds of volunteer hours, significant and long-term leadership positions, 2 to 3 fantastic recommendation letters, beautiful personal statement, etc. etc. etc.?

Would anything less than that even be considered? It would also be very helpful if you could post the stats you applied with and the school you got into.

Again, I'm just curious.
Thanks very much.

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[Laufcra]

You might want to post this one in the pre-allo section instead

 

[sobored]

It's hard. Just get good grades in college and the rest will fall into place in due time.

 

[DermViser]

First requirement of getting into a top-tier medical school -> being able to post the question in the correct SDN forum.

 

[Ismet]

moving to hSDN

 

[doctorDoctor.]

I posted this here because Med students (and not Pre-med students) actually have the experience of applying to schools of all levels and would subsequently be more knowledgeable regarding admissions information. Thanks!

 

[Shinobiz11]

Gonna tell you now, aim high but be realistic. Get the best grades you can without destroying your life. Don't forget to have fun, especially with your EC's. Study hard for the MCAT and because it's changing we are still not sure what score will correlate with a competitive application. Nothing wrong with wanting to go to top 10's, but you have to realize you'll sacrifice a lot to get there.

 

[AlteredScale]

Hello. First of all I want to give a disclaimer that:
1. I'm still a high school student and therefore am very ignorant on the things that may seem very obvious to most of you.
2. I'm not one of those people who shoot for brand name schools just for their prestige and degrees.
3. I'm just curious. Just curious.

How hard exactly is Harvard, Stanford, Johns Hopkins, Yale, Dartmouth, and all of those high tier medical schools?
I understand that getting into any U.S. Medical school (excluding the Caribbean) is an accomplishment, and that most medical schools have an acceptance rate of 1~3 percent, but what kind of stats would make me competitive for the best medical schools?

Would I literally need a 4.0 college GPA, 36+ MCAT, published research, hundreds of volunteer hours, significant and long-term leadership positions, 2 to 3 fantastic recommendation letters, beautiful personal statement, etc. etc. etc.?

Would anything less than that even be considered? It would also be very helpful if you could post the stats you applied with and the school you got into.

Again, I'm just curious.
Thanks very much.

I would have the say the the most difficult med school to get into is WashU in St Louis solely on the basis of stats because they have an absurd MCAT average (36? 37?)

There is no perfect recipe in getting in at a top tier med school and acceptance move much further outside of states. From what I've gotten: a 3.7+ and 34+ is AROUND where you want to be to be considered competitive.

I have one friend from my school with 12 interviews with the notables being BU, GWU, cornell, Columbia, and UCSF. What makes her stand out isn't just her grades and research but her genuine nature and ability to be a leader. I'm not talking a club/org leader at school but really doing something to impact society and change views. That is what makes matriculants of these top tier programs so unique. IMO this woman deserves every interview and she will be one of my closest colleagues down the road..

 

[DermViser]

I would have the say the the most difficult med school to get into is WashU in St Louis solely on the basis of stats because they have an absurd MCAT average (36? 37?)

There is no perfect recipe in getting in at a top tier med school and acceptance move much further outside of states. From what I've gotten: a 3.7+ and 34+ is AROUND where you want to be to be considered competitive.

I have one friend from my school with 12 interviews with the notables being BU, GWU, cornell, Columbia, and UCSF. What makes her stand out isn't just her grades and research but her genuine nature and ability to be a leader. I'm not talking a club/org leader at school but really doing something to impact society and change views. That is what makes matriculants of these top tier programs so unique. IMO this woman deserves every interview and she will be one of my closest colleagues down the road..

38, actually.

 

[AlteredScale]

38, actually.

Wow. That's insane I tell ya. I mentored with a grad from there. He did an MSTP there and is now on a Heme/Onc track and just published again in Science.

Is WUSL your alma mater @Derm?

 

[mimelim]

I would have the say the the most difficult med school to get into is WashU in St Louis solely on the basis of stats because they have an absurd MCAT average (36? 37?)

There is no perfect recipe in getting in at a top tier med school and acceptance move much further outside of states. From what I've gotten: a 3.7+ and 34+ is AROUND where you want to be to be considered competitive.

I have one friend from my school with 12 interviews with the notables being BU, GWU, cornell, Columbia, and UCSF. What makes her stand out isn't just her grades and research but her genuine nature and ability to be a leader. I'm not talking a club/org leader at school but really doing something to impact society and change views. That is what makes matriculants of these top tier programs so unique. IMO this woman deserves every interview and she will be one of my closest colleagues down the road..

Wash U is not the most difficult to get into. Numbers are not everything. Pretty much any top 20 school could have that high of an MCAT average if that is what they selected for. I interviewed at every top 10 that I applied to despite having a 3.4 gpa. There is so much more to admissions and competitiveness than scores.

 

[AlteredScale]

Wash U is not the most difficult to get into. Numbers are not everything. Pretty much any top 20 school could have that high of an MCAT average if that is what they selected for. I interviewed at every top 10 that I applied to despite having a 3.4 gpa. There is so much more to admissions and competitiveness than scores.

oh I agree that scores aren't everything. That's why I stated solely on the basis of a single number that WashU appears to be difficult without a higher MCAT but then added that stats are simply a single piece to the puzzle of admissions.

 

[DermViser]

oh I agree that scores aren't everything. That's why I stated solely on the basis of a single number that WashU appears to be difficult without a higher MCAT but then added that stats are simply a single piece to the puzzle of admissions.

In terms of the top-tier, Wash U is easier to get into in terms of the top ten bc it doesn't have the name dropping potential that Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Penn, etc. have. It's also not in a location like Boston, NYC, LA, etc. That's why it tends to look at MCAT score much more closely in terms of recruitment as it wants to have good match results which then attracts applicants.

 

[AlteredScale]

In terms of the top-tier, Wash U is easier to get into in terms of the top ten bc it doesn't have the name dropping potential that Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Penn, etc. have. It's also not in a location like Boston, NYC, LA, etc. That's why it tends to look at MCAT score much more closely in terms of recruitment as it wants to have good match results.

Ah makes sense. Thanks for the explanation!

Do you think research is similar between WUSL and say Yale?

 

[mimelim]

Its WUSTL and I would say that they have the edge in terms of research over Yale.

 

[Law2Doc]

Hello. First of all I want to give a disclaimer that:
1. I'm still a high school student and therefore am very ignorant on the things that may seem very obvious to most of you.
2. I'm not one of those people who shoot for brand name schools just for their prestige and degrees.
3. I'm just curious. Just curious.

How hard exactly is Harvard, Stanford, Johns Hopkins, Yale, Dartmouth, and all of those high tier medical schools?
I understand that getting into any U.S. Medical school (excluding the Caribbean) is an accomplishment, and that most medical schools have an acceptance rate of 1~3 percent, but what kind of stats would make me competitive for the best medical schools?

Would I literally need a 4.0 college GPA, 36+ MCAT, published research, hundreds of volunteer hours, significant and long-term leadership positions, 2 to 3 fantastic recommendation letters, beautiful personal statement, etc. etc. etc.?

Would anything less than that even be considered? It would also be very helpful if you could post the stats you applied with and the school you got into.

Again, I'm just curious.
Thanks very much.

First, med schools aren't "tiered" like colleges. There is a US News research ranking which some (mostly premeds) use to assess a schools prestige because it's thought that a School that attracts a lot of research money will attract a lot Of big names and be able to afford a lot of niceties and thus is a reasonable Proxy for prestige. As such Harvard and Hopkins, etc, tend to be high on the list. Of your list Dartmouth, (ranked #34) although a good school, is really not in the same league as the others you listed.

Second, there isn't a checklist for what you need to get into a top program. there's a ton of objectivity and good fit and looking for the "wow" factor. You can have top stats and not get interviews at the top couple of places.

Third, it's not at all clear that you even need to be in one of the top programs to accomplish most career objectives. Most US allo schools are pretty good launching pads for most residencies. There are relatively few med schools compared to undergrads nd most are very selective. You can always go to a top place for a fellowship if you find you want it on your resume (as example look at Dr Rey from Dr. 90210). But eventually the undergrad notion of "must do the most competitive thing as it's necessarily better" thought process wears thin and you are going to start making career steps that make personal sense. the guy who goes to a school that racks up less debt and still ends up in the same residency as you has won the matchup because you both emerge at the same place on the career trajectory but in different financial positions.

Fourth, in medicine you are as good as the last place you've been. If you go to Podunk med school and MGH for residency, you are the guy from MGH. And vice versa. This race isn't won until you've stopped running.

Fifth, all this is irrelevant to you. You need to do the best you can in college and be amazing extracurriculrly to get into ANY med school, period. 90% of freshman premeds wash out along the way. Whether its a top ten place or a top 60 place won't really be in your control if you did your best. And you can still be a top paid or respected doctor without having a big med school sweatshirt tucked away in your drawer.

 

[doctorDoctor.]

First, med schools aren't "tiered" like colleges. There is a US News research ranking which some (mostly premeds) use to assess a schools prestige because it's thought that a School that attracts a lot of research money will attract a lot Of big names and be able to afford a lot of niceties and thus is a reasonable Proxy for prestige. As such Harvard and Hopkins, etc, tend to be high on the list. Of your list Dartmouth, (ranked #34) although a good school, is really not in the same league as the others you listed.

Second, there isn't a checklist for what you need to get into a top program. there's a ton of objectivity and good fit and looking for the "wow" factor. You can have top stats and not get interviews at the top couple of places.

Third, it's not at all clear that you even need to be in one of the top programs to accomplish most career objectives. Most US allo schools are pretty good launching pads for most residencies. There are relatively few med schools compared to undergrads nd most are very selective. You can always go to a top place for a fellowship if you find you want it on your resume (as example look at Dr Rey from Dr. 90210). But eventually the undergrad notion of "must do the most competitive thing as it's necessarily better" thought process wears thin and you are going to start making career steps that make personal sense. the guy who goes to a school that racks up less debt and still ends up in the same residency as you has won the matchup because you both emerge at the same place on the career trajectory but in different financial positions.

Fourth, in medicine you are as good as the last place you've been. If you go to Podunk med school and MGH for residency, you are the guy from MGH. And vice versa. This race isn't won until you've stopped running.

Fifth, all this is irrelevant to you. You need to do the best you can in college and be amazing extracurriculrly to get into ANY med school, period. 90% of freshman premeds wash out along the way. Whether its a top ten place or a top 60 place won't really be in your control if you did your best. And you can still be a top paid or respected doctor without having a big med school sweatshirt tucked away in your drawer.

This was very helpful!! Thanks very much!

 

[DermViser]

Ah makes sense. Thanks for the explanation!

Do you think research is similar between WUSL and say Yale?

I agree with mimelim. WUSTL (Washington University in St. Louis) edges out Yale slightly in terms of research. That being said, in terms of what is in the best interest of the medical student, Yale is probably the better choice vs. WUSTL. Using research as the sole metric, is a bad idea, esp. as you may not even be using their extensive research that is behind the scenes (at least in terms of your education).

 

[RJGOP]

Wow. That's insane I tell ya. I mentored with a grad from there. He did an MSTP there and is now on a Heme/Onc track and just published again in Science.

Is WUSL your alma mater @Derm?

In terms of the top-tier, Wash U is easier to get into in terms of the top ten bc it doesn't have the name dropping potential that Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Penn, etc. have. It's also not in a location like Boston, NYC, LA, etc. That's why it tends to look at MCAT score much more closely in terms of recruitment as it wants to have good match results which then attracts applicants.

I don't know about DermViser, but I thought I'd add my 2 cents just b/c Wash U is my Alma Mater.

Anyway, I'm not attending Wash U for med school- but I feel like they are very heavily stats oriented, as opposed to the higher ranked med schools. As of now, i believe, WUSTL is ranked #6 for med schools, below harvard Hopkins, Harvard, UPenn etc. I think the statistic oriented view makes it harder to get into than most schools. I'm not saying it's the hardest, but it's right up there.

I think DermViser is right when he says that they value MCAT scores so much because they don't have that prestigious name that everyone knows, because it's in a"flyover" state. It sucks, but it's true.

 

[DermViser]

I don't know about DermViser, but I thought I'd add my 2 cents just b/c Wash U is my Alma Mater.

Anyway, I'm not attending Wash U for med school- but I feel like they are very heavily stats oriented, as opposed to the higher ranked med schools. As of now, i believe, WUSTL is ranked #6 for med schools, below harvard Hopkins, Harvard, UPenn etc. I think the statistic oriented view makes it harder to get into than most schools. I'm not saying it's the hardest, but it's right up there.

I think DermViser is right when he says that they value MCAT scores so much because they don't have that prestigious name that everyone knows, because it's in a"flyover" state. It sucks, but it's true.

Wash U undergrad is WAY overpriced. Quite a few entitled students there as well. Wash U students protesting Ferguson is hilarious considering their backgrounds.

 

[RJGOP]

Wash U undergrad is WAY overpriced. Quite a few entitled students there as well. Wash U students protesting Ferguson is hilarious considering their backgrounds.

I did love that school though. And it's pre-med program was excellent. That was mostly why I went there- that and I didnt want to move very far. It was pretty expensive, but there are schools that costed much more, for example Columbia.

 

[DermViser]

I did love that school though. And it's pre-med program was excellent. That was mostly why I went there- that and I didnt want to move very far. It was pretty expensive, but there are schools that costed much more, for example Columbia.

Premed there is quite cutthroat, but I think they have good aspects like the MedPrep course for you to see whether medicine is really for you or not.

 

[RJGOP]

Premed there is quite cutthroat, but I think they have good aspects like the MedPrep course for you to see whether medicine is really for you or not.

There was some level of hostility, but IMO it was very negligable, and I didn't think it was terribly cutthroat. The courses however, were very challenging. But I think that is neccesarily for excellent med school prep.

 

[DermViser]

There was some level of hostility, but IMO it was very negligable, and I didn't think it was terribly cutthroat. The courses however, were very challenging. But I think that is neccesarily for excellent med school prep.

Says the Cutthroat King. lol. j.k.

 

[mimelim]

There was some level of hostility, but IMO it was very negligable, and I didn't think it was terribly cutthroat. The courses however, were very challenging. But I think that is neccesarily for excellent med school prep.

We had very very different WUSTL experiences XD.

 

[engmedpt]

...

 

[DermViser]

SHADOW............The vast majority of the material you learn is part of a social darwinian system for the mcat and a gpa to see if you get in the pile to be considered. DO NOT chase the title. SERIOUSLY. Everything in healthcare is changing. Shadow full workdays the summer before college to see if you can even do what they do day in and day out. A job is a series of habits. Unfortunately a title doesnt give the habits justice until you actually do or observe them. You may hate it and decide that accounting is more up your alley. Then again. you may love it. You won't know until you get the experiential component and the premed coursework DOES NOT give you the end goal whatsoever. Sorry. Its true. Being great at organic chem doesnt mean you will enjoy being a doc.......AT ALL

What does your post have anything to do with the OP's questions?

 

[the Mannis]

Wash U is not the most difficult to get into. Numbers are not everything. Pretty much any top 20 school could have that high of an MCAT average if that is what they selected for. I interviewed at every top 10 that I applied to despite having a 3.4 gpa. There is so much more to admissions and competitiveness than scores.

how did you manage to do well in the admissions process with a 3.4 gpa? that is incredible. Did you have some amazing EC or research?

 

[efle]

how did you manage to do well in the admissions process with a 3.4 gpa? that is incredible. Did you have some amazing EC or research?

1) this thread is ancient

2) mimelim had a 40+ MCAT and extensive research

 

[grapp]

Hello. First of all I want to give a disclaimer that:
1. I'm still a high school student and therefore am very ignorant on the things that may seem very obvious to most of you.
2. I'm not one of those people who shoot for brand name schools just for their prestige and degrees.
3. I'm just curious. Just curious.

How hard exactly is Harvard, Stanford, Johns Hopkins, Yale, Dartmouth, and all of those high tier medical schools?
I understand that getting into any U.S. Medical school (excluding the Caribbean) is an accomplishment, and that most medical schools have an acceptance rate of 1~3 percent, but what kind of stats would make me competitive for the best medical schools?

Would I literally need a 4.0 college GPA, 36+ MCAT, published research, hundreds of volunteer hours, significant and long-term leadership positions, 2 to 3 fantastic recommendation letters, beautiful personal statement, etc. etc. etc.?

Would anything less than that even be considered? It would also be very helpful if you could post the stats you applied with and the school you got into.

Again, I'm just curious.
Thanks very much.

Looks about right. Take one thing at a time, it's not going to be easy though. Start volunteering young, show some committment!

 

[Instatewaiter]

Hard.

/thread

 

[rogernadal]

Hello. First of all I want to give a disclaimer that:
1. I'm still a high school student and therefore am very ignorant on the things that may seem very obvious to most of you.
2. I'm not one of those people who shoot for brand name schools just for their prestige and degrees.
3. I'm just curious. Just curious.

How hard exactly is Harvard, Stanford, Johns Hopkins, Yale, Dartmouth, and all of those high tier medical schools?
I understand that getting into any U.S. Medical school (excluding the Caribbean) is an accomplishment, and that most medical schools have an acceptance rate of 1~3 percent, but what kind of stats would make me competitive for the best medical schools?

Would I literally need a 4.0 college GPA, 36+ MCAT, published research, hundreds of volunteer hours, significant and long-term leadership positions, 2 to 3 fantastic recommendation letters, beautiful personal statement, etc. etc. etc.?

Would anything less than that even be considered? It would also be very helpful if you could post the stats you applied with and the school you got into.

Again, I'm just curious.
Thanks very much.

This thread is a couple of years old, so maybe @doctordoctor is already in college, but it showed up on my feed so I'm going to answer anyways

I think as long as you can get around 3.7GPA and 35 MCAT or above, you will be at or slightly below the average for most top medical schools. Spend the rest of your time travelling and doing ECs that you really care about. You will have so much more interesting and genuine things to talk about in your applications and interviews. Plus, experiencing other cultures and seeing new places will help you not just in applying to medical school, but for the rest of your life. Obviously you have to do some research and volunteer, but find ones that you are genuinely interested in, not because you want to put it on your resume. I promise you that going about things in this manner will bring about better results than just dedicating the 4 years of your college life into beefing up your resume for applying to medical schools. This is coming from someone who most people would consider to be in the latter group.

Kudos to you for seeking out advice from people that have already made it into the health professionals community. I wish I would have had the insight to do the same 5 years back Good luck!!!

 

[randomguy123456]

Hello. First of all I want to give a disclaimer that:
1. I'm still a high school student and therefore am very ignorant on the things that may seem very obvious to most of you.
2. I'm not one of those people who shoot for brand name schools just for their prestige and degrees.
3. I'm just curious. Just curious.

How hard exactly is Harvard, Stanford, Johns Hopkins, Yale, Dartmouth, and all of those high tier medical schools?
I understand that getting into any U.S. Medical school (excluding the Caribbean) is an accomplishment, and that most medical schools have an acceptance rate of 1~3 percent, but what kind of stats would make me competitive for the best medical schools?

Would I literally need a 4.0 college GPA, 36+ MCAT, published research, hundreds of volunteer hours, significant and long-term leadership positions, 2 to 3 fantastic recommendation letters, beautiful personal statement, etc. etc. etc.?

Would anything less than that even be considered? It would also be very helpful if you could post the stats you applied with and the school you got into.

Again, I'm just curious.
Thanks very much.

tldr, but let me answer the question you asked in the title. It is extremely difficult. Let's take a look at Harvard medical school: Last year they received 6,113 applications and matriculated 165 applicants...that's 2.7%. Average GPA of 3.8 and MCAT score of 36.16, which is a 97% percentile. Also good to mention that 71% of the applicants majored in science as an undergrad.

Is it impossible? No. How hard is it to get into a top 1 tier medical school? Harder than your grandma making it to the starting line up of your high school basketball team.

In all seriousness though. You have to have stellar GPA, MCAT, extracurriculars, and medical experiences. You must also shine amongst hundreds of highly qualified candidates during the med school interview. You can't have any flaws within the application. Otherwise, no chance. gl

Sources:
https://hms.harvard.edu/departments/admissions/applying/selection-factors-admissions-statistics

https://aamc-orange.global.ssl.fast...7a4/finalpercentileranksfortheoldmcatexam.pdf