How is hunting viewed by Adcoms?

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UncertaintyPrinciple

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Hunting is one of my biggest interests/hobbies. However, I'm worried that some adcoms might view it unfavorably if they are against hunting. Am I being neurotic? I feel like it might be a nice way of connecting with an interviewer though. Thoughts?

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it's fine, just, ya know, be sensitive about it

don't talk about hunting endangered animals, canned hunts, "killing bambi"
ya know

it's best if what you hunted you ate, I think that's more PC than if you bought a permit to go kill an African rhino for the horn
 
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Depends on what you're hunting. Regular animals? Meh, that's basic. Hunting man? Well, nothing is more badass than a good ole fashioned man hunt.

 
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The same way that the general public views hunting - it varies greatly. I personally despise the idea of hunting for sport, as many people do. If I was an adcom, I would be lying if I said that this wouldn't affect my mindset for the remainder of reviewing your application. Not that that's right, its just the way people think.

I like to think if you make an argument that's it's cultural (Native American, rural, family), and for food, adcoms are open minded enough to deal

that's what I was trying to get at
hunting for sport, uncool

hunting for food and because you're from somewhere that it's a cultural practice, likely OK
just be sure you talk respectfully about the animals

bonus points if you can discuss how your hunting dovetailed with wildlife management in an eco-responsible manner
 
I'm against it. How would you feel if you were naked, and I was hunting you? But I'm sure it's fine to talk about.
 
Hunting has been an important part of becoming more process than results driven for me. I think it's a helpful attitude in enjoying becoming and being a physician and I would think helps prevent burn out. That's the big reason I included it.
 
It would only be a problem if it involved unethical hunting. Don't talk about any stupid ish you've done and you'll be fine.
 
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I'm personally very against it and I can see this being more harmful than helpful. A lot of my interviewers were huge animal lovers and one flat out stated that she thought opening day was ''sick''. Personally, if I had to read/listen to someone explain the art of tracking an animal or the process of waiting to kill it, I would be incredibly turned off. For this reason, I can't recommend that you advertise this hobby.

Why is it worse to hunt an animal for food than to buy meat at a store that was killed at a slaughterhouse?
 
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It isn't, become a vegetarian today
No.

And a lot of people seem to think it is worse, evidenced by Affiche having a problem with people tracking and killing animals. It's clearly seen as different than animals being killed in a slaughterhouse.
 
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No.

And a lot of people seem to think it is worse, evidenced by Affiche having a problem with people tracking and killing animals. It's clearly seen as different than animals being killed in a slaughterhouse.

Well yes. On a personal level, most people would prefer to pay to have someone else do it for them. Distance always makes things feel OK Even if they are not.

I actually think it is more ethical to hunt animals and eat them yourself, as long as the species is not endangered or in threat of being endangered (seriously altering the ecosystem of an environment has consequences for us too). I don't have a problem with animals being killed and eaten for food. I have a problem with the factory farming of animals which doesn't really give them any sort of life at all during the process of being raised for slaughter, and which has serious environmental consequences even though we have the resources and capability to replace the meat intake in our diets which is, on average, already far higher than it should be.
 
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It's pretty amazing how people who don't hunt don't understand how necessary it is. Humans hunting animals (legally) is necessary to maintain a strong ecosystem. Not to mention that hunters are often the strongest environmentalists out there. Hunting tags are not just given out because people like to kill things, there is actually a process to it and the number of tags is determined by the population of animals in the area. Even in "trophy" hunts the meat usually is given to the locals. An example is in Alaska where people go to hunt large moose, the surrounding small towns get there meat from these hunters donating their kills. Yes there are hunters who are blood thirsty *****s but a lot of us are very intelligent, lawful, and actively involved in the preserving of wildlife
 
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I appreciate everyone's input! I respect all of your opinions, but my intention was not to start a debate on the ethics of hunting.
 
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First of all, I don't endorse slaughterhouses in any way, so that doesn't work on me.
My point was that it's probably not fair for adcoms to discriminate against hunters more than they discriminate against anyone who buys and eats meat from a store, because in practice, they're essentially the same thing (actually, hunting might be better, because at least those animals get to experience life outside a disgusting farm up until they are killed).

Second of all, making a sport out of tracking and killing animals is disturbing to me. Animals kill other animals for food because they starve if they don't. People aren't exactly in the same circumstance. The fact that some people enjoy waiting all day to get a kill out fun is off putting to me. You can argue that you eat what you kill, which in some eyes may make it better, but in mine you're still killing unnecessarily just for fun. I find it equally disturbing that hunters take pride in how many points are on their hunted deer's antlers, but that's just me.

But I'm not here to argue about the ethics of hunting, and my original post conveyed that pretty well, I think. Whether or not you agree with me is irrelevant to this thread. I'm simply providing a different perspective to show the OP that the cost of discussing hunting in his application could potentially be greater than any benefit.
I'm on board with your perspective regarding hunting for sport. I'm just trying to point out that you could probably be a bit more open-minded about those who hunt because they need to, like my uncle who's too poor to afford enough groceries for his family without supplemental food from hunting deer. People like him aren't "killing unnecessarily just for fun." If you become an adcom and want to judge people for hunting, then that's your prerogative, but you should probably try to understand why they hunt before jumping to any conclusions, because if you don't, then you'll end up being dismissive of a bunch of cultures and low-income individuals who live in rural areas.
 
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Again, you're making quite an assumption here. This entire thread is about discussing hunting as a hobby/sport, and you're calling me closed-minded because you're assuming that I "judge" people who legitimately hunt for food and not for sport.
You said "even if you eat what you kill... you're still killing unnecessarily just for fun." I assumed you were referring to those who hunted for food, but maybe you were referring to those who hunt for sport and then eat their kills. My bad if that's what you meant.
 
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Hunting is one of my biggest interests/hobbies. However, I'm worried that some adcoms might view it unfavorably if they are against hunting. Am I being neurotic? I feel like it might be a nice way of connecting with an interviewer though. Thoughts?

Hunting as a hobby is very similar to hunting as a sport. I would think of something else to write.
 
So many assumptions from you pro-hunters in this thread! Who said we don't understand ecosystems? If you still believe that populations would be out of control without hunters, then I would argue that you don't properly understand how ecosystems work. But again, not relevant to this thread.

Oh I wasn't addressing you specifically, just more of a general statement. And yes without hunting populations and animal disease would skyrocket. Animals being hunted is a large part of any ecosystem, but I am not here to argue with you or anyone else, I was just pointing out an observation that the strongest opinions against hunting are usually due to a lack of understanding. I understand why some people don't like hunting, I don't agree with it but I respect their opinions, just like I respect yours. In return I expect people to respect the fact that I legally hunt, and yes I guess it could be considered "for sport". I do agree that there are better things OP could talk about in a secondary, in this we agree 100%.
 
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So many assumptions from you pro-hunters in this thread! Who said we don't understand ecosystems? If you still believe that populations would be out of control without hunters, then I would argue that you don't properly understand how ecosystems work. But again, not relevant to this thread.

Actually, we have affected the ecosystem so much with fences and roads and such that hunting is needed to help control the populations to prevent massive die offs from starvation for such species as deer.

They can go through boom and bust cycles. Left alone without as many natural predators in the wild (as has been a side effect of what we've done that is not easily undone) most prey animals left to breed on their own naturally tend to procreate at a rate higher than what the flora can support because they have evolved to breed at a rate that is typically higher than the carrying capacity in response to predatory pressures (most animals' breeding rates are affected by evolution to usually be at or slightly above the carrying capacity of their environment). Remove the natural predatory pressures as we have, and there's not enough for the extra bambis to eat. So they starve to death instead. That's more humane?

So the following year the population isn't as strong. These up and down cycles continue. In an up population weakened by lack of food (plus let's remember epidemiology, epidemics are more likely in overcrowdng), or in a down population, these animals are at greater risk of various diseases that can decimate a local population.

If you removed the fences, the cow pastures, etc, and brought the wolves etc back, the natural predator-prey relationship tends to keep both populations at a steady state and then will be affected mostly by environmental forces such as drought which affects flora for grazing. I don't mean to imply there isn't a natural up and up and down of the populations in the wild.

It's an imperfect solution, but since we're not likely to remove human civilization, roads, fences, pasture, and such, hunting serves a purpose for these animal populations.

Also, keep in mind, if the deer population goes up, so does the population of predators such as cougars. As they spread out their hunting territories, this places them at greater risk of coming into rural and suburban areas. Sadly, if a cougar starts to hang around too close to an elementary school let's say, they will typically be killed. I've seen this happen. Argue all you want, if it comes down to kids or cougar the cougar goes in these situations. These animals often can't be relocated, as I've said there's only so much land.

Also in another thread, a gun thread, in my post history, I mention hunting as part of subsistence nutrition. Notice I said SUBSISTENCE. I talk about having iron deficiency anemia myself as a child due to poverty and how our family hunted to supplement our diet out of nesscesity. @Mad Jack raised that a shocking number of families rely on hunting for food in this country, maybe he'll pop over and give the number again.

If we don't like that some poor families hunt for a source of protein and iron, maybe try to get increases on SSI/SSDI, food stamps, or donate protein and iron rich foods to local food box places.

Lastly, as mentioned, the money that goes for hunting permits is frequently reinvested by the gov't for preservation efforts. Don't like that either? Vote to increase such monies and taxes for that. Support animal rights or preservation effort groups or lobbies with your money or volunteer.

I'm sorry if the realities of what human civilization has done to the natural ecology, plus the need to eat, has created these problems whereby humans take over the the role of predator and to feed themselves, bothers you.

Propose solutions and enact them as I have here. Or, accept that there's worse realities than a quick death for a prey animal and its consumption by a human animal.

How does this help OP?

Because maybe this will help him not sound less like a douche to any interviewers with anti-hunt bias if this comes up. He can show thoughtful analysis at least, as @Goro said, someone may not agree with hunting despite all of this, but maybe they can respect the thought and need that goes into this for some.
This discussion displays an application of an understanding of basic ideas in epidemiology, populations, cultural competency, nutrition status in underserved/impoverished people, etc that are actually relevant knowledge to a future physician. So there's that too.
 
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Still don't get the issue of contributing to animal population control and BLM management for conservation that is played by someone who kills and eats their prey as opposed to if it were subsistence.

We haven't said why it's better to buy a steak at a store than to go to the woods and procure your own venison steak.

If they could afford a strictly vegetarian diet, then fine, you could say it's wrong.

I still don't know why because we are thinking animals that can adapt to no longer eat prey animals, that it is wrong for us to kill and eat a non-endangered prey animal (if it doesn't negatively impact the predator population) when other animals do it. We are animals too. Thinking ones, sure. Why is the death of prey animals, when evolution and ecology has actually evolved them to breed beyond carrying capacity and actually be reliant on predators to control their population (bunnies don't have birth control) something to wring our hands about if its done humanely?

Maybe we can just grow enough protein rich plants to feed EVERYONE (cuz massive farms aren't an ecological problem), and we can create a food for us and lions. We can feed the lions this until they de-evolve hunting intincts (but then they would be domesticated!) Then their prey can evolve to have different fecundity rates to match the carrying capacity in absence of predator pressures. Then we can make them all herbivores and then the lion really will lay down with the lamb, and we will have Heaven on earth. And we can continue de-evolving our canines. We will eliminate all carnivorous activity on the planet. We could become scavengers. Why not just eat our own dead for a source of protein? Then we don't have to farm as much because that's bad for the environment too. We could also just wage enough war and kill enough of the population to lower population density go back to our early roots as small horticulturists, and eat the dead along the way. I say horticulturists, because if we go back to hunting/gathering, gathering alone won't cut it, we'd be forced to hunt again.

One thing people don't know commonly is that we have increased our carrying capacity beyond what the Earth naturally can provide even if ALL we ate were plants. The Haber process. (you learn in O Chem. Maybe O Chem teaches life relevant info???) Prior to its discovery, we were reliant solely on bacteria for nitrogen fixation. Can't have plants, proteins, or DNA without nitrogen. Nearly 80% of the nitrogen found in human tissues originated from the Haber-Bosch process. However, this process is also harmful to the environment.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haber_process
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen_fixation

I grew up on a hobby farm. But we were poor. We needed the eggs. We needed to eat some of the chickens and roosters to control their population (caging them separately would be crueler than free range, yes?) They had nice lives. Their deaths were probably quicker and less painful than what a raccoon would have done to kill them.
 
I remember talking with a hippie at a party coop, going off on how wrong it was to eat animals.

I asked him, "do you eat honey?"
"Yes."
I said, with all seriousness, "Oh, that is so wrong. It's slavery and theft. The poor bees are tricked into being enslaved in human created enclaves, and we steal the fruits of their hard labor. I can't support it."
 
I wouldn't mention it if I were you, OP. Goro said he wouldn't ever penalize an applicant for it, and honestly, that's probably close to the best case scenario. I suppose you could get an adcom that is really pro-hunting, but I think the potential for a negative reaction is more likely than a positive one. I think you'd run into an implicit bias, where people just look at everything else you have to offer through the lens that that activity has created for them. Not entering the ethical debate, whatsoever, I just think you'd run into people who knew it affected them negatively and some that didn't. Best to steer clear of controversy.
 
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Oh man, this got derailed by both sides.

Don't put hunting as a "hobby", but as an EC, I think "hunting for food" is acceptable. I wouldn't put it as a top 3, and if you can speak in an interview to how it teaches you patience, attention to detail (if you track), and how it makes ends meet in terms of food then you should be ok. It would also be nice to mention if it were something you do with another family member since you were young.
 
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Let's be honest, 99% of those that hunt could care less about ecosystem stabilization and so on. Most hunters will use statements like these as justification for their actions after the fact.

This statement is, quite frankly, stupid. You keep telling yourself this. Just because you believe something doesn't make it correct, when the opposite is true.
 
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This statement is, quite frankly, stupid. You keep telling yourself this. Just because you believe something doesn't make it correct, when the opposite is true.
Okay, and if the opposite is true? The average citizen discovers the ecological dangers of an overpopulation of deer, etc. Out of concern, they then take it upon themselves to be guardians of the environment by hopping into their lifted diesel trucks and driving into the wild to save Mother Nature. After getting a good kill, I'll make sure to squat down next to my victim, or line up twenty ducks side by side on the bed of my truck so that I can get a good picture to post on my Instagram environmental awareness account. Maybe afterwards, I'll cut the head off my big kill of the day and stick it over my fireplace at home as a reminder of how I saved my community from the destruction this monster would have caused to our ecosystem.

Give me a break. At least where I'm from, hunting is correlated with a strong sense of far right conservative ideologies and a complete denial of any existing environmental issues. Do not try to convince me that hunters are somehow now environmentalists who go about spending thousands on guns so that they can be better equipped to save the environment. I will be happy to hold my personal "stupid" opinion until it becomes more evident that yours is true.

Well without adding political ideologies into the thread, i also find it surprising that hunters care about the environment and view themselves as key players in maintaining the ecosystems. That seems more like a consequence to hunting rather than a primary reason (and even then it's not perfect since some hunters like to kill or capture rare and endangered species)
 
I'll probably amend my previous comments by saying it's okay to mention hunting in secondaries provided it's backed up with reasonable context (such as good hunting ethics). Examples being population control of rabbits/deer to prevent them from attacking your gardens, hunting for food and donating excess to feed the hungry, cleaning up the areas after the kill etc. Gives a good appreciation for environmentalism and service to community.

Hunting for sport and/or for profit is pretty bad though.
 
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I think it comes down to your honest motivation for hunting:

Let's be honest, 99% of those that hunt could care less about ecosystem stabilization and so on. Most hunters will use statements like these as justification for their actions after the fact.

Hunting, for the vast majority of the population, is simply the enjoyment of killing - simple as that. That in itself is something that I deem worthy of considering when constructing my opinion of another person.

Of course, this thread will focus on the outliers - the few that truly hunt for morally just or practical reasons.

I just can't take hearing the same BS that comes from gun activists and hunters. You like guns, it makes you feel good killing, lets cut the rest.

Many hunters do a lot for the environment, particularly those that hunt waterfowl. They have played an instrumental part in preserving the wetlands that are home to may different species. I grew up hunting, and my extended family goes on hunting trips every year. Over the past few years, I have developed a distaste for hunting and no longer take part in the festivities. I don't really get any enjoyment out of it and feel that I can be just as content watching animals or hiking/camping. My family members who hunt get enjoyment from being outdoors and eating the venison they procure. How can I judge them for engaging in a legal activity, doing it responsibly, and actually saving money/being healthier by eating cheaper, leaner meat?

In closing, get your head out of your rectum. I don't like hunting either, but your attitude is uncalled for and ignorant. You better watch where you tread, because I know a lot of docs in my area who are gun enthusiasts/hunters. Coming across like this could come back to bite you.
 
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This thread has been talked pretty near to death, but I want to point out something that I don't think anyone else has mentioned (sorry if someone has, I only skimmed most of it).

If you have any interest in rural medicine, this is highly desirable to some schools. or even if you don't have interest in it, then let them think you might. Since you are an avid hunter, I would guess that you dwell in a rural area yourself. or at least often spend time in those areas. This hunting thing is a great way to sneak in a couple buzz phrases about what the culture is like in the rural setting, and how you as a future physician could contribute. You have lived and experienced the rural community first hand in one of the most ancient activities of that kind of community. if you ask me it could very well be a big part of your application to set you apart if you play it right. and of course, like mentioned above, tone down the sport aspect. talk instead about how you learned respect for the wild, for life, blah blah blah

And in respect to the posts mentioning that hunters who do so properly help the environment, I agree. Come to upstate new York sometime and try to tell me that the deer population hasn't reached a massive surplus. Hunting those deer is actually encouraged where i'm from to reduce auto accidents, protect trees (they eat the bark), and even help prevent the spread of lyme disease!
 
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How can I judge them for engaging in a legal activity, doing it responsibly, and actually saving money/being healthier by eating cheaper, leaner meat?

I love this because in the same way I will never judge someone who doesn't want to hunt for their own personal reasons. :thumbup:
 
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Well without adding political ideologies into the thread, i also find it surprising that hunters care about the environment and view themselves as key players in maintaining the ecosystems. That seems more like a consequence to hunting rather than a primary reason (and even then it's not perfect since some hunters like to kill or capture rare and endangered species)

Very unfair sterotype.

I have a feeling I've spent a helluva lot more time with rednecks than you have.

I know one guy, totally blue collar, killed like 60 coyotes in a day (this is legal) for sport. In this case, nothing is done to put them to use. However, this is legal for some ecological reason he was able to articulate clearly to me but escapes me now.

Hunting has come under the sort of attack that every hunting conversation I have ever had with a hunter had turned to ecology.
They are exposed to it when they go to buy the permits.

In fact, I distinctly remember there being a pamphlet that was given out to not only explain the types of permits and the rules, but ALSO they would include a information explaining WHY the rules were what they were. Crazy, huh? The government had some idea it would be help prevent poaching or breaking of the rules if they explained their purpose and the ecology behind it. They explain that it's in their interest not to overhunt the populations so there's as many permits the next year. In fact, for this reason and rewards, hunters self regulate and report poachers fiercely.

As such, most hunters I know are aware of the negative attitudes against hunting, and will mention many of the same principles I just did in this thread in their defense. No one wants to be a bad guy. It might not be their motivation, but I find many it adds to their sense of pride to be able to articulate their place in the ecology and their respect for nature.

Are there yahoos that just like to kill stuff? Sure. But even amongst the most ill-educated I come across truly ignorant hunters VERY rarely.
 
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I'm not an adcom, but I'm vegan. I can't imagine anybody you'll encounter during interviews will have more disdain for the practice than I do, but I can tell you that if somebody I've assessed as normal, thoughtful and polite tells me they've grown up hunting and that it's a big part of their life, perhaps because it was a family bonding activity, or something that helped them learn outdoorsmanship, etc. I understand and don't see it as a character flaw, that's where some people come from even if I still think they should stop and the sport should be wiped from the face of the earth.
 
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I'm pretty appalled that people are making statements along the lines of "hunters don't care about the ecosystem", "hunters like to kill", "hunters only do it for the sport", "hunters gave my mother diabetes".

I grew up in an area where I knew several avid hunters and have done it from time to time myself. Two of them are now park rangers, so obviously they care about the ecosystem. Plust hunting for meat is waaaaaay friendlier for the ecosystem than mass production and slaughter of animals (still necessary though given our population situation). Plus many species which are hunted are so overpopulated, they actually endanger more delicate species in the ecosystem. Hunting, very eco friendly. Hunters don't like the killing part of it. In fact the ones who are my friend's say that is their least favorite part of it. And as for the sport, well I wouldn't call it sport, but there is something very satisfying about going out on a nice walk through nature, getting some exercise, and all at the same time being slightly more self sufficient for food than you were before. Stop bashing hunters just because the activity doesn't align with your beliefs. That isn't a very good quality for future physicians to have ;)
 
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