How many hours to put for a case study paper?

[thestrugglingtraveler77]

How many hours to put for a case study? Is 120 good, or too much? Like a case study of an unusual case of leukemia, writing the paper, submitting for publication, i am co-author.

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[Catalystik]

How many hours to put for a case study? Is 120 good, or too much? Like a case study of an unusual case of leukemia, writing the paper, submitting for publication, i am co-author.

Sounds waaaay too high to me.

 

[LizzyM]

How much time did it take or how much time will it take when you actually do it? Why do you ask?
If you've already done it, can't you recall how much time you put in?

 

[mimelim]

It takes me about an hour to draft a case report. I expect that a student with a good grapple on what happened in the case (ie they were there and we discussed it) to take 4-5 hours to make a basic draft. Universally, (have now done 6 case reports with students), I have re-written the entire case report while sitting next to the student, explaining why I am changing what they wrote to my writing. It typically takes me about an hour to do that, ie the same amount of time as if I wrote it myself. But, instead of remember/figuring out the chronology of the case, I am spending the non-writing time explaining to the student how to communicate their ideas a little more fluidly. It is normal for very few words to be used from the student's draft. I then have the student send the draft to the surgeon/PI and we get feedback, make the edits and send it out to the journal. It is rare for any single person to invest more than 10 hours on it. Now, if the student has to do outside research because they have to figure the case out (ie they weren't present) or because they have no idea what is going on (ie they know nothing about the field that the case was in), that adds to the total time, but even then, I have a hard time imagining that taking more than 10 additional hours. If it is taking longer, they are getting poor direction or are doing something wrong.

 

[thestrugglingtraveler77]

It takes me about an hour to draft a case report. I expect that a student with a good grapple on what happened in the case (ie they were there and we discussed it) to take 4-5 hours to make a basic draft. Universally, (have now done 6 case reports with students), I have re-written the entire case report while sitting next to the student, explaining why I am changing what they wrote to my writing. It typically takes me about an hour to do that, ie the same amount of time as if I wrote it myself. But, instead of remember/figuring out the chronology of the case, I am spending the non-writing time explaining to the student how to communicate their ideas a little more fluidly. It is normal for very few words to be used from the student's draft. I then have the student send the draft to the surgeon/PI and we get feedback, make the edits and send it out to the journal. It is rare for any single person to invest more than 10 hours on it. Now, if the student has to do outside research because they have to figure the case out (ie they weren't present) or because they have no idea what is going on (ie they know nothing about the field that the case was in), that adds to the total time, but even then, I have a hard time imagining that taking more than 10 additional hours. If it is taking longer, they are getting poor direction or are doing something wrong.

Ok thanks everyone. It was a case report and literature review. I had to learn about the case. Thanks everyone. I'll put in like 30 hours.

 

[desiredmembername123]

Ok thanks everyone. It was a case report and literature review. I had to learn about the case. Thanks everyone. I'll put in like 30 hours.

There is no guess work here???? How many hours did you actually put in, write that amount of hours down. I am not sure what you are confused about.

 

[thestrugglingtraveler77]

There is no guess work here???? How many hours did you actually put in, write that amount of hours down. I am not sure what you are confused about.

Its not that easy. A lot of time was spend on learning statistics, reviewing literature, etc. Does that count? So, does reading papers count? How about doing statistics incorrectly--does time spent on that count? How about learning how to read patient histories, does that count???

 

[JustAPhD]

Its not that easy. A lot of time was spend on learning statistics, reviewing literature, etc. Does that count? So, does reading papers count? How about doing statistics incorrectly--does time spent on that count? How about learning how to read patient histories, does that count???

Maybe reading literature but even that's a stretch, and I would not consider learning statistics (even if they're related to the study) to be relevant to your calculated hours.

 

[lampshade4u]

does playing Pokemon Go count?

 

[Catalystik]

Its not that easy. A lot of time was spend on learning statistics, reviewing literature, etc. Does that count? So, does reading papers count? How about doing statistics incorrectly--does time spent on that count? How about learning how to read patient histories, does that count???

Should the time spent learning English and how to read and write it count? What about all the basic math classes you took before Statistics (and the hours in Stats class)? All the science classes? Eating meals so you'd have the energy to function? Where does it end?

 

[Person1345]

Give him a break. All of the above-mentioned tasks were related directly to producing the paper, which is where "it ends."

 

[thestrugglingtraveler77]

Should the time spent learning English and how to read and write it count? What about all the basic math classes you took before Statistics (and the hours in Stats class)? All the science classes? Eating meals so you'd have the energy to function? Where does it end?

Why so sarcastic? If you work in a lab, all the time you spend learning about lab methods counts. So, if I did lab work all that time in a lab would count. But this is analysis, so the time spent learning about analysis does not count? I mean, ok I suppose everyone here answered the question, but its a difficult question.

 

[lampshade4u]

Why so sarcastic? If you work in a lab, all the time you spend learning about lab methods counts. So, if I did lab work all that time in a lab would count. But this is analysis, so the time spent learning about analysis does not count? I mean, ok I suppose everyone here answered the question, but its a difficult question.

I don't think anybody even cares about # of hours. What's more important is what you produced and how well you can show you understand the research process and what you learned. My opinion on hours would be if it was put into the paper it should count. If you searched literature and bunch of those papers were cited in your report then count those hours. I believe most people have lab "positions" which are more like part-time jobs so their hours would be say 15/wk for a year = 780 hours and then any publication that came from those hours you wrote about, rather than x hours for each specific project.... at least I think that's what I did.

 

[Crayola227]

I think the issue is you're not fooling anyone here.

A case report shouldn't take the equivalent of 3 WEEKS worth of full time 40 hrs/wk work, which is what you're claiming. Maybe it did because you lacked the sort of background that makes these things faster to write.

A lot of us have had some experience, and unless there was an enormous amount of research/work that went into the intro and discussion, the rest is straight forward.

Thing is, if they NCBI it up and read this case study, are they gonna be so wowed by those sections and the massive amount of numerical analysis that went into it that they will believe it took this long?

You're so focused on buffering hours, that you don't seem to realize that for some things in medicine, taking a really long time to do it is not seen as a boon.

You're better off claiming something that doesn't sound outrageous even if it's an underestimate, and then in interviews talk about all the new skills you learned to make it happen.

 

[thestrugglingtraveler77]

ok thank you to everyone So does 30 hours look ok? Thanks alot .

 

[Crayola227]

It takes me about an hour to draft a case report. I expect that a student with a good grapple on what happened in the case (ie they were there and we discussed it) to take 4-5 hours to make a basic draft. Universally, (have now done 6 case reports with students), I have re-written the entire case report while sitting next to the student, explaining why I am changing what they wrote to my writing. It typically takes me about an hour to do that, ie the same amount of time as if I wrote it myself. But, instead of remember/figuring out the chronology of the case, I am spending the non-writing time explaining to the student how to communicate their ideas a little more fluidly. It is normal for very few words to be used from the student's draft. I then have the student send the draft to the surgeon/PI and we get feedback, make the edits and send it out to the journal. It is rare for any single person to invest more than 10 hours on it. Now, if the student has to do outside research because they have to figure the case out (ie they weren't present) or because they have no idea what is going on (ie they know nothing about the field that the case was in), that adds to the total time, but even then, I have a hard time imagining that taking more than 10 additional hours. If it is taking longer, they are getting poor direction or are doing something wrong.

Even for someone very versed in their field, don't you need to do some research and read papers and pull up citations to put in for the intro and discussion? Maybe it depends on if it's just a simple report versus if there's more background you need to give?

 

[mimelim]

Even for someone very versed in their field, don't you need to do some research and read papers and pull up citations to put in for the intro and discussion? Maybe it depends on if it's just a simple report versus if there's more background you need to give?

It doesn't take that long to pull those references. Also, if it is about a unique pathology, most likely I have already read up on previous reports/series in preparation for doing the actual case. I have also already presented it at least once at a department conference, so most of that background is already done prior to deciding to write up the case report. For example, we had a novel way of treating Lemierre's syndrome and I wrote up the case report. But, prior to deciding to publish it, we actually treated the patient. Personally, I didn't really know or understand Lemierre's syndrome, so prior to intervening, I had already read up on it, as you should when you are taking care of patients...

 

[Catalystik]

Why so sarcastic?

It wasn't sarcasm, it was hyperbole (exaggeration for the sake of making a point).

 

[thestrugglingtraveler77]

It doesn't take that long to pull those references. Also, if it is about a unique pathology, most likely I have already read up on previous reports/series in preparation for doing the actual case. I have also already presented it at least once at a department conference, so most of that background is already done prior to deciding to write up the case report. For example, we had a novel way of treating Lemierre's syndrome and I wrote up the case report. But, prior to deciding to publish it, we actually treated the patient. Personally, I didn't really know or understand Lemierre's syndrome, so prior to intervening, I had already read up on it, as you should when you are taking care of patients...

But for someone who is in college still, wouldn't it take some time to learn about the case and write it up? Like, 30 hours, say?

 

[mimelim]

But for someone who is in college still, wouldn't it take some time to learn about the case and write it up? Like, 30 hours, say?

Personally, I wouldn't give a student a case report to write if they weren't involved in the case themselves. That doesn't make a ton of sense to me. Maybe if they heard about the case in a presentation during a department conference, but otherwise, I don't really see the point of them trying to piece everything together retrospectively. But, as with everything, this may be more specific to surgery or my department than anything else. But, I would say that if you are spending more than ~20-30 hours on a case report, something isn't right. Even if you are doing it from the beginning.

 

[thestrugglingtraveler77]

Personally, I wouldn't give a student a case report to write if they weren't involved in the case themselves. That doesn't make a ton of sense to me. Maybe if they heard about the case in a presentation during a department conference, but otherwise, I don't really see the point of them trying to piece everything together retrospectively. But, as with everything, this may be more specific to surgery or my department than anything else. But, I would say that if you are spending more than ~20-30 hours on a case report, something isn't right. Even if you are doing it from the beginning.

Ok thanks. This was in oncology; met patient while shadowing

 

[JustaDO]

How about learning how to read patient histories, does that count???

Can you describe what is actually involved in the process of learning how to read a patient history?

 

[Crayola227]

Can you describe what is actually involved in the process of learning how to read a patient history?

a **** ton of googling a lot of acronyms, and then when you do figure out what the original Greek/Latin word was, googling that

"65 yo M w/ PMHx sig for CHF, CAD, STEMI x2, stents x2, s/p 3vCABG, HLD, HTN, DM2 on insulin, presents with CC of CP on exertion, SOB, PND, orthopnea, and bilat LLE, starting 4 days PTA."

Shall I continue?