How many times is too many?

[alexanderluria]

I am a 26 year old male Caucasian who has recently went through his second application process. Undergraduate I majored in neuroscience and psychology. Not a great undergraduate GPA but good enough. I thought a master's degree would be the way to go for my career. I did very well and during my master's, I was one of six authors on four papers from my old neuroscience lab. I thought I couldn't fail.

Last year I applied to 9 programs, interviewed at 2, rejected by all.

This year I applied to 16 programs and included a Psy.D. at a decently respected university based program, a counseling program, and a combined clinical counseling. Three interviews and am expecting at least two of the schools accept me.

I have a job offer now for a great research gig and I imagine I could do it for years to pay off my debt then go back. I am disappointed but not surprised about this process. I am disappointed I need to make a decision now about this job rather than after knowing whether these programs officially accept me or not. I switch back and forth between cutting my losses and going for one of these other programs, and accepting the job to see what happens.

Here is the actual substance of the thread. Im stuck. Im 26 now. I feel like I am settling. But am I really going to get different results next time around even if I took this sweet research gig? And how old is too old to go through this process again. I cant imagine taking this job and then being 36 when I get my "real career" started. I imagine that being 10 to 14 years older than my cohort would make things very awkward.

I see some people have applied three times and had success. But is that like "a guy waking up after being in a coma for 17 years" unrealistic? And how about age? If I went through this again to get into a school more congruent with my career interests, wouldn't it be a little weird that I might actually end up being older than adjunct faculty that work in their department?

I just need some perspective. My gut says the job is better but I would be delaying gratification till at least 40 when I finally have a more stable career. My mind wants me to get into one of these programs, move forward, and have a career I like even if I am living in the same apartment I am now when I finish.

Are there older applicants? Those who have struggled with whether to go through this a third time? Or preferably those concerned with having the christening of their career start at the same time one should start to get prostate exams due to their age?

Im being melodramatic. There are drawbacks to both decisions but do others think about their age in this respect?

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[Doctor Eliza]

I can't speak to the older student aspect. Although I will say that even going in right out of UG I have felt some frustration with my friends getting to live as real adults so much sooner than I do. It is approaching 4 years since got my PhD and in many ways I feel like I still don't totally get to live like a real adult due to the financial limitations of being an early career psychologist. What I wouldn't do for matching dressers that weren't purchased at Target!

A few more questions to clarify your situation:

1. What is your dream job after graduation? You mention a lot of research-y stuff, but you applied to a PsyD too.
2. Is your master's license-able?
3. What are your hesitations about the 3 schools that you might get an offer from?

Best,
Dr. E

 

[alexanderluria]

I can't speak to the older student aspect. Although I will say that even going in right out of UG I have felt some frustration with my friends getting to live as real adults so much sooner than I do. It is approaching 4 years since got my PhD and in many ways I feel like I still don't totally get to live like a real adult due to the financial limitations of being an early career psychologist. What I wouldn't do for matching dressers that weren't purchased at Target!

A few more questions to clarify your situation:

1. What is your dream job after graduation? You mention a lot of research-y stuff, but you applied to a PsyD too.
2. Is your master's license-able?
3. What are your hesitations about the 3 schools that you might get an offer from?

Best,
Dr. E

Lol thank you for that.

Edit: I apologize in advance. These are unnecessarily lengthy answers to simple questions.

1. Last year I applied to all Ph.D. programs. This year I added a Psy.D. and counseling program as a precaution. Briefly, I dreamed that I would have my Ph.D., become board certified in neuropsychology. I would work in a medical and/or academic setting. Research was a big part of this dream, particularly in brain injury, assessment, and malingering. I am very proud of my neuroscience degree, the work I put in, and the research I did. I sincerely thought that neuropsychology was the way to go due to my strengths, skill set, and interests in the fields of neuroscience and psychology.

2. My master's, as it is right now, is not license-able in the state I live in. I could get a certificate to work within the field of addiction, take coursework in school psych, and/or take courses/work under supervision to get autonomy and state credentials to work in an addiction setting or a center for troubled/delinquent/abused youth.

3. My hesitation is the debt and possible limitations of each degree compared to the Ph.D.. The counseling degree would allow me to pursue academic work. I could probably still work with populations I am interested in but in a different capacity. I assume this anyway. The cost would be near or equal to the Psy.D. program below because the program is in an area that is semi-expensive to live in or around.

The Psy.D.
Pros: university based, good reputation, potential for limited research and my POI mentioned former students who obtained post-docs and board certification in neuropsych.

Cons: They have lost funding for this year putting me in additional debt which I calculated as approx. $45-50000. From what I can gather on this website, it seems like I would risk my ability to be competitive in the job market (let alone a post-doc position)

The job I have lined up would be great. But then I would be back to applying again in three years with no guarantees that I would better off. If I was convinced that another research job would get me in to my ideal Ph.D. program, I would take it in a heart beat. I just don't think that is a reality for me and I think I might have to change plans, move on with my life, and still go into a program and career that I enjoy with the populations I want to work with.

 

[Doctor Eliza]

That is a tough spot to be in and I see your dilemma. So am I understanding you correctly that the 2 programs that you feel that you are likely to get an offer from are a PsyD and a Counseling Psych PhD? Any possibility of that 3rd interview turning into an offer?

I think an important question to ask yourself is, if you took this research gig and decided NOT to go for a clinical psych doctorate, what would you want to do?

Another thing I wonder about for you would be going completely over to the research side of things and doing a non-applied PhD. Without having clinical obligations you might be able to get through your degree faster. I also wonder if funding options would be better, but I really don't know much about that.

Best,
Dr. E

 

[PHD12]

Lol thank you for that.

Edit: I apologize in advance. These are unnecessarily lengthy answers to simple questions.

1. Last year I applied to all Ph.D. programs. This year I added a Psy.D. and counseling program as a precaution. Briefly, I dreamed that I would have my Ph.D., become board certified in neuropsychology. I would work in a medical and/or academic setting. Research was a big part of this dream, particularly in brain injury, assessment, and malingering. I am very proud of my neuroscience degree, the work I put in, and the research I did. I sincerely thought that neuropsychology was the way to go due to my strengths, skill set, and interests in the fields of neuroscience and psychology.


3. My hesitation is the debt and possible limitations of each degree compared to the Ph.D.. The counseling degree would allow me to pursue academic work. I could probably still work with populations I am interested in but in a different capacity. I assume this anyway. The cost would be near or equal to the Psy.D. program below because the program is in an area that is semi-expensive to live in or around.

The Psy.D.
Pros: university based, good reputation, potential for limited research and my POI mentioned former students who obtained post-docs and board certification in neuropsych.

Cons: They have lost funding for this year putting me in additional debt which I calculated as approx. $45-50000. From what I can gather on this website, it seems like I would risk my ability to be competitive in the job market (let alone a post-doc position)

.

I completely get your hesitation. I don't see how a PsyD with limited research opportunities (as you mentioned) is going to get you to your goal of being board certified in neuropsychology and working in an academic/research setting. I think its possible, but the field is becoming increasingly more competitive so starting off in a disadvantaged position is tough.

Make sure you check out the APA internship match rates (not APPIC or other match rates) for both programs because this is going to be really important for board certification or working in an academic medical center.

Its smart that you are cautious about debt. You mention 50K of debt, but that is only for 1 year? An unfunded PsyD or PhD is going to cost you 150k+ in debt. You are paying tuition for at least 5 years (lots of programs actually take longer so check out the median rate of completion). If they don't have funding for the 1st year, why would you get funding later? Most of the folks on this board will recommend against going to an unfunded PhD or PsyD program. As a rule of thumb, you probably don't want to take out more than 50-60K in debt total in this field (including MA or undergrad loans) based on earning potential.

I second Dr. E's suggestion of checking out non-clinical PhD programs (maybe a neuroscience PhD). From what I know, these are typically funded at least and will be more marketable than a PsyD if you want a research career (I don't think you would be eligible for licensure as a psychologist though).

 

[CriminalPsych]

My $0.02 on the financial aspect...yes it is a lot of debt. And I know some people here may equate large debt to the end of the world. However, I'd really ask two questions: 1) Where do you want to be in 20 years? and 2) With that debt could you stand to continue living like a grad student for 5 or so years after you graduate to get it paid off? If you have a family or are planning on having a family I'm sure that becomes a whole lot less feasible but if you are willing to wait than it's not impossible. And don't get me wrong, I do realize the magnitude of large financial burdens, but people do make it work with a bit of sacrifice.

 

[Psychadelic2012]

Here is the actual substance of the thread. Im stuck. Im 26 now. I feel like I am settling. But am I really going to get different results next time around even if I took this sweet research gig? And how old is too old to go through this process again. I cant imagine taking this job and then being 36 when I get my "real career" started. I imagine that being 10 to 14 years older than my cohort would make things very awkward.

I see some people have applied three times and had success. But is that like "a guy waking up after being in a coma for 17 years" unrealistic? And how about age? If I went through this again to get into a school more congruent with my career interests, wouldn't it be a little weird that I might actually end up being older than adjunct faculty that work in their department?

I just need some perspective. My gut says the job is better but I would be delaying gratification till at least 40 when I finally have a more stable career. My mind wants me to get into one of these programs, move forward, and have a career I like even if I am living in the same apartment I am now when I finish.

Are there older applicants? Those who have struggled with whether to go through this a third time? Or preferably those concerned with having the christening of their career start at the same time one should start to get prostate exams due to their age?

Im being melodramatic. There are drawbacks to both decisions but do others think about their age in this respect?

You are being extremely melodramatic. There are definitely annoying things about being an older doctoral student (I'm 35 and in my first year), such as being older and more experienced in life than certain professors. However, the more melodramatic things you post are not very realistic. You write as if being *36* when you graduate is like being an old man. Give me a break! You are so young. I personally think doctoral students should be at least in their mid-twenties before starting their programs. You are average age, as far as I see it. I think you are right to apply to counseling psych and PsyD programs with a master's degree. I think that's a better fit for what you described about yourself.

 

[PHD12]

You are being extremely melodramatic. There are definitely annoying things about being an older doctoral student (I'm 35 and in my first year), such as being older and more experienced in life than certain professors. However, the more melodramatic things you post are not very realistic. You write as if being *36* when you graduate is like being an old man. Give me a break! You are so young. I personally think doctoral students should be at least in their mid-twenties before starting their programs. You are average age, as far as I see it. I think you are right to apply to counseling psych and PsyD programs with a master's degree. I think that's a better fit for what you described about yourself.

I completely agree that graduating at 36 is not too old. However, if someone wants to have kids/family they may have to sacrifice that to attend graduate school at an older age. Keep in mind that it takes a couple of years to make money after you graduate from a PhD/PsyD program as well. You are assuming that most people don't want kids or to save for retirement (every financial planner will tell you that starting at 40 is way too late), and also don't mind living with roommates in their mid-30's. Maybe that is okay for you, but many people would also find this unappealing on many levels.

 

[DynamicDidactic]

I started a PhD program at 26 and there are people in my program that started at 27 and 28, its not too late. If you are willing to wait starting other parts of your life (i.e., real job, kids) then its not an issue (though it is possible with a working partner).

However, I highly recommend not taking on much debt from training. Being older with burdening debt just puts you in a bad situation. The rule of thumb is don't come out of school with more than your first year's pay. On postdoc you could expect to make between 30k - 45k.

 

[Pragma]

I think I can understand where you are coming from a bit. Personally, I was raring to go after a year off from school. Had I not been lucky enough to make it in the first round, I had identified some alternatives I was maybe going to pursue (e.g., nursing).

You ask good questions. I just wonder what other alternatives this research job will get for you (and also, how much it is paying because it sounds a lot better than RA gigs).

There is more than one way to work in this field. If you are set on a clinical PhD, I wouldn't give up or settle. But if you feel flexible (as I did in the beginning), exploring other options is not a bad idea.

Oh and you are young. It may sound silly coming from me (I started young), but I knew a lot of older students and it was not weird at all. Many of them brought invaluable experiences to their programs. So I wouldn't rule it out - but it is true, there are financial considerations. I personally wanted to have graduate school/postdoc done before turning 30 so that my wife and I could start a family with relative comfort. But your goals may be different. Also - I knew people who had kids in graduate school while still in their 20s - but they generally had a partner earning a solid income.

 

[somedaypsych]

...

 

[futureapppsy2]

In both programs I've been in, there's been a fair number of folks starting in their 30's, often after careers in the field (mostly as teachers or master's-level clinicians) but sometimes after something completely different. This was the case in the clinical program at my undergrad university as well, so I don't think it's unusual. I don't think it would work against you in interviews, provided you spin it well and especially if you connect it to psych, clinical work, research, etc, which it sounds like would not be hard at all. Plus, being able to get your debt paid off and have some money saved up prior to starting a program could be quite smart, IMO.

 

[roubs]

3/10 in my cohort started in their 30s. They are great and I'm glad to have gotten to know them, and to my knowledge none of them regret the decision (as of 4th yr:/). Also there has not been any issue with fitting in, two of them have kids so it's understood they're at a bit of a different place in life--but we all still have good professional relationships and consider each other friends.

 

[deleted176373]

I am a 26 year old male Caucasian who has recently went through his second application process. Undergraduate I majored in neuroscience and psychology. Not a great undergraduate GPA but good enough. I thought a master's degree would be the way to go for my career. I did very well and during my master's, I was one of six authors on four papers from my old neuroscience lab. I thought I couldn't fail.

Last year I applied to 9 programs, interviewed at 2, rejected by all.

This year I applied to 16 programs and included a Psy.D. at a decently respected university based program, a counseling program, and a combined clinical counseling. Three interviews and am expecting at least two of the schools accept me.

I had to go through twice, first time 15 programs, second time 27 programs. To say I was determined is an understatement. I would probably quit after three iterations until I figured out what was not getting me admissions. I worked really hard after the first round and got 2 interviews and no offers out of 15. Second time around was 14 interview offers, 3 acceptances, including my #1 and #5 choices. My problem was my personal statement. Don't accept a program that you don't really like or love! Graduate school is no time to be miserable (or rather more miserable than you'll already be).

I have a job offer now for a great research gig and I imagine I could do it for years to pay off my debt then go back. I am disappointed but not surprised about this process. I am disappointed I need to make a decision now about this job rather than after knowing whether these programs officially accept me or not. I switch back and forth between cutting my losses and going for one of these other programs, and accepting the job to see what happens.

Take it, you can always quit later, especially if it will help your CV.

Here is the actual substance of the thread. Im stuck. Im 26 now. I feel like I am settling. But am I really going to get different results next time around even if I took this sweet research gig? And how old is too old to go through this process again. I cant imagine taking this job and then being 36 when I get my "real career" started. I imagine that being 10 to 14 years older than my cohort would make things very awkward.

So back to my story, I didn't begin my undergraduate degree until I was 38. Oh the horrors. Naturally, in undergrad classes, I crushed grading curves and had a sense of purpose my younger peers (in general) did not. This was an advantage, as was my life experience when I was in my Ph.D. program (although it was challenging to "forget what you know" to learn it differently than before). I started my graduate program just shy of my 41st birthday, so in some cases I was approaching 20 years older than some of my fellow students in the program during my fourth year. To be honest, I had a blast, I feel younger than my biological cohort and enjoyed my somewhat stunted academic development.

I see some people have applied three times and had success. But is that like "a guy waking up after being in a coma for 17 years" unrealistic? And how about age? If I went through this again to get into a school more congruent with my career interests, wouldn't it be a little weird that I might actually end up being older than adjunct faculty that work in their department?

I was older than some of the faculty, it was never a problem for me, they knew what I was attempting to learn. Never seemed to get in the way of that process with one notable exception. Sometimes it would be assumed (mostly because of my self-confidence, in part due to having a few more years of life experience) that I had competency when I had very little to none. I was a bit bolder and unafraid to make decisions, when in fact I should have been consulting more, and often allowed to get away with it when I should have been called on it. That was the biggest hindrance to my professional and personal development and also the biggest risk when considering the risk to patients under my care. Mind you, in general, my decisions were pretty solid but I messed up badly a few times with no serious consequences resulting from my ignorance.

I just need some perspective. My gut says the job is better but I would be delaying gratification till at least 40 when I finally have a more stable career. My mind wants me to get into one of these programs, move forward, and have a career I like even if I am living in the same apartment I am now when I finish.

Are there older applicants? Those who have struggled with whether to go through this a third time? Or preferably those concerned with having the christening of their career start at the same time one should start to get prostate exams due to their age?

Yes, I had to have a prostate exam before attending my program. I regret nothing and would do it all over again and not miss one moment of the life I lived the way I lived it. Don't get me wrong, I could be experiencing something totally amazing today had I been more disciplined when I was younger, but my life has been amazing. I don't care that my cohort is younger than me (especially as a military officer). I get along with them well enough and they seem to enjoy my company as well. It gets less "weird" as we all age and move forward.

Im being melodramatic. There are drawbacks to both decisions but do others think about their age in this respect?

I think I covered most of it. If you have anything specific you want to know, shoot me a PM and I'll be happy to divulge more.

Mark

 

[deleted176373]

I completely agree that graduating at 36 is not too old. However, if someone wants to have kids/family they may have to sacrifice that to attend graduate school at an older age. Keep in mind that it takes a couple of years to make money after you graduate from a PhD/PsyD program as well. You are assuming that most people don't want kids or to save for retirement (every financial planner will tell you that starting at 40 is way too late), and also don't mind living with roommates in their mid-30's. Maybe that is okay for you, but many people would also find this unappealing on many levels.

Gee, glad I didn't listen to them (financial planners). Fortunately, my retirement will be fully vested at 51. Haven't had a roommate since my 20's. Although, I may have had to sacrifice more had things worked out differently.

I was willing to go for it, even if it had meant the sacrifices PHD12 notes, however everyone's life story is a little different. PHD12 makes some solid suggestions, however, don't write us "old people" off just yet.

 

[farfallastar852]

I applied 5 times before I got in. I'm 34 and about to start the intership phase. During the years that I didn't get in to grad school, I continued to build my CV. I found that being an older student who had filled out the CV a bit more helped me to secure funding during graduate studies - which was tremendously helpful. If you really want it - don't give up!

 

[PHD12]

I applied 5 times before I got in. I'm 34 and about to start the intership phase. During the years that I didn't get in to grad school, I continued to build my CV. I found that being an older student who had filled out the CV a bit more helped me to secure funding during graduate studies - which was tremendously helpful. If you really want it - don't give up!

Wow, you must be incredibly persistent! I have never heard of anyone going through an application process 5 times! I hope you at least got an internship the first time. You really deserve it. I would imagine that in some people this would lead to learned helplessness. I've done everything only once (applying to graduate school, internship, postdoc process), and I'm somewhat traumatized and burnt out. Everyone in my cohort and all my peers are pretty burnt out by the time they reach internship/postdoc/licensure process.

 

[Marissa4usa]

If you read my previous posts you'll find that I also have become pretty disenchanted with the entire process. Last year I applied for the third time, only to get accepted into my last choice program...which, after some soul searching, I decided to turn down because I simply couldn't see myself there and be a successful researcher. So, I applied again this year for the fourth (!!!) time to 20+ schools. I received 10+ invites, none of them to my top choice programs. However, one of my middle-of-the-road programs turned out to be the program of my dreams (okay, minus the not-so-great location) when I visited. Luckily, I got accepted and I honestly couldn't be happier.

I'll be 30 when I start my program and 35 or 36 when I graduate, so I'll definitely be older than most of my cohort, but having worked as a full-time RA at a major research university and having become familiar with the process of being a PhD student I also know that I will be ahead of most incoming students.

I, too, worry about "being an adult" and doing adult things like buying a house, having a family, etc. Being single, I can't do much about not having a family right now , but the upside of going to a program in the middle of nowwhere with a low cost of living but a pretty decent stipend is that I'll most likely be able to buy a house. I will most likely have one or two roommates to set off the cost, but if everything goes well, I'll be in pretty good shape by the time I graduate. So, depending on where you end up, there are ways to ensure financial security.

I can't tell you what you should do, but I do know that I went with my gut last year when I turned down the only offer I had and I'm so glad I did. Yes, it majorly sucks that I won't have a lot of money for so much longer, but I know that I've made the right choice.

 

[Psychadelic2012]

I have another thread about my situation, but I applied twice, got accepted to several mid-choice programs (none of which were truly ideal) in my mid-30's, and I have been sickenly miserable since I started. I'll either be applying again soon or stopping with my master's degree. It's not always so great being in a Ph.D. program. I wanted to scream at the top of my lungs, "DON'T GO HERE! IT'S AWFUL!" to the applicants during interviews. It was so hard to keep my mouth shut, they were all so nervous and out-of-their-minds admiring the program. The competitiveness makes people do stupid things. The best thing anyone can do when applying is keep a level head and don't do anything out of desperation or even out of the "I have nothing else to do" mentality. Pursuing your dreams is great until they turn into a nightmare.

 

[quickpsych]

I'm new here but I'll throw in my 2 cents.

I'll be starting a Psy.D. program in the fall and it wasn't an easy application path or a smooth line from undergraduate to doctoral program. You're young and have plenty of time to get things organized.

First time I applied to doctoral programs I was 23 and had no idea what I was doing. I had finished an undergrad in an unrelated field and decided to take extra UG courses in psych at another school after realizing my chosen field wasn't for me. I applied to 6-7 doctoral programs (mix of Psy.D. and Ph.D.) that I had no place applying to. I got offers to apply to the Masters program at two schools, interviewed at one and got accepted at that one.

I worked hard in the Masters even doing a voluntary research thesis to gain experience. I took my time and got it done as well as clinical experiences under my belt and reapplied again, this time to all Ph.D. programs. 16 of them to be exact. I wanted to take a shot at a fully funded doctoral program. I got rejected from all 16 of them without so much as an interview.

I continued to work at my former internship site and gained experience in other areas of the field at my site. I reapplied to 10 schools, this time all Psy.D. programs as they really seemed to fit my goals better. Got 2 interviews and so far one official acceptance and one unofficial.

I'll be 30 when I start the program. With a Masters I may be able to skip a year according to the programs I interviewed at. I'll be between 34-36 when I finish I estimate.

So I applied first time, got deflected to a Masters program, got rejected across the board second time, and third time finally got something I worked for and really wanted.

 

[futurepsydoc]

I understand your frustration and it is good that you are thinking critically about your decision. I had a similar experience as far as applying to programs, it was difficult the second go around to be sure. Looking back, I was completely unprepared the first time around and was much better the second time. If I did not get in, I told myself third time is the charm or I am out, fortunately I was accepted to one of my top choices.

Like yourself, I opted to get an masters degree before reapplying, as I thought this would be the best route to improving my chances of gaining acceptance (i.e., prove I good do graduate level work, obtain better training in research, gain further breadth/depth of knowledge through coursework). In addition, I was able to present more posters at conferences and land a part-time clinical position as well. Building your CV up will always improve your chances. Further, I was able to get better guidance when writing my personal statements and essays. I also was able to prepare again for the GREs.

In contrast to my route, many people from my cohort only had BA degrees. Almost all of them had been paid RAs in labs for 1-2 years. The more people I speak to outside of my program, the more I found that this is a common route to gaining acceptance. It shows a commitment to the field, provides opportunities to present at conferences, and gives you a great opportunity to get letters of recommendations. I would consider this road now, even though you have a masters degree, especially if you are not comfortable with your current options. It could provide the extra experience you need to become more competitive.

Having said that, I would consider the following information about the programs you are currently considering:

1) APA Internship Match Rate
2) Funding
3) Mentor
4) Department Culture
5) How Well Does it Prepare You for Pursuing your goal - this especially critical for people pursuing careers as neuropsychologists

I started at age 27 and I am currently 32. I will be graduating very soon and beginning my post-doc at the end of the summer. Honestly, I don't think starting at 28 or 29 is a big deal at all. I think it becomes an issue if you are partnered/married and are thinking about starting a family. If that is the case, your decisions will impact these plans in a number of ways and you need to consider how graduate school can impact those goals,

My biggest piece of advice is to look at the Internship Imbalance, the job market for psychologists, and the amount of debt you will likely accrue. From a long-term perspective, you need to make sure you don't dig yourself into a whole that you cannot get out of. I have met a lot of students in terrible positions because of this very issue.

Best of Luck!!!

 

[Justanothergrad]

I am a 26 year old male Caucasian who has recently went through his second application process. Undergraduate I majored in neuroscience and psychology. Not a great undergraduate GPA but good enough. I thought a master's degree would be the way to go for my career. I did very well and during my master's, I was one of six authors on four papers from my old neuroscience lab. I thought I couldn't fail.

Last year I applied to 9 programs, interviewed at 2, rejected by all.

This year I applied to 16 programs and included a Psy.D. at a decently respected university based program, a counseling program, and a combined clinical counseling. Three interviews and am expecting at least two of the schools accept me.

I have a job offer now for a great research gig and I imagine I could do it for years to pay off my debt then go back. I am disappointed but not surprised about this process. I am disappointed I need to make a decision now about this job rather than after knowing whether these programs officially accept me or not. I switch back and forth between cutting my losses and going for one of these other programs, and accepting the job to see what happens.

Here is the actual substance of the thread. Im stuck. Im 26 now. I feel like I am settling. But am I really going to get different results next time around even if I took this sweet research gig? And how old is too old to go through this process again. I cant imagine taking this job and then being 36 when I get my "real career" started. I imagine that being 10 to 14 years older than my cohort would make things very awkward.

I see some people have applied three times and had success. But is that like "a guy waking up after being in a coma for 17 years" unrealistic? And how about age? If I went through this again to get into a school more congruent with my career interests, wouldn't it be a little weird that I might actually end up being older than adjunct faculty that work in their department?

I just need some perspective. My gut says the job is better but I would be delaying gratification till at least 40 when I finally have a more stable career. My mind wants me to get into one of these programs, move forward, and have a career I like even if I am living in the same apartment I am now when I finish.

Are there older applicants? Those who have struggled with whether to go through this a third time? Or preferably those concerned with having the christening of their career start at the same time one should start to get prostate exams due to their age?

Im being melodramatic. There are drawbacks to both decisions but do others think about their age in this respect?

I'm an older student that was in very much the same situation. I came in several years older than you are now with my masters. I also know several different people who have done the same thing as I did (30-35 starting). My cohort is one of the tightest I have ever seen. The professors comment on it, the other cohorts comment on it, and even the other programs at the school notice it. We have ranges in our ages but we are very close and the age factor does not matter.

The process, unfortunately, draws out and it can take a toll. I remember applying at 26 an thinking that it was "too late" if I didn't get in. Where I'm at now, I wouldn't trade that time for the world. I love my program and if that time is what it took to find it- then time well spent. To me, I found a perfect fit and the work I did between then and when I got in let me stay debt free, build some great experiences, and find the right program. It took me a total of 4 application cycles to get in (I sat one out in the middle to focus on building myself up). I'm now at a major R1 it all worked out. After all of the work I put into it, I found that the thing that changed and made the greatest difference wasn't my C.V. (I had several pubs as well, including two as first author) going into it- it was just how I approached the application and my understanding of what I needed/valued in a program.

If you love it, you'll love it at 30, 35, and 40. Don't let your mind, particularly at this point in the application process, fret you. Find out why you didn't get in to those programs, think a lot about where you applied and what makes them your target schools, and then think about what you can do to make yourself better between now and next.

 

[emily621]

I applied three years in a row, and finally got an interview and accepted at the program that had been my top choice all along. But I'm turning 28 this year, and I'm definitely older than I had hoped I would be when entering a program, so I understand your hesitancy there.

 

[HomeworkHelper]

A lot of good advice in this thread, I second the idea that while there are some folks who go to graduate school straight out of undergrad or very soon after, there is a good subset that get started later, and you likely wouldn't stand out in your cohort at all.

Additionally, if you decide to wait, I really recommend taking a close look at your CV, personal statement, and any materials you sent schools. Have other folks look at it, and get a lot of feedback to make changes. I put a lot of work into making a great-looking CV (formatting, organization, etc.), which multiple fellow grad students have asked to emulate and the place I got my dream postdoc mentioned how nice my CV looked...so, aesthetics, formatting, and figuring out how to present the information to sell yourself the best can be important, even if your experiences don't change all that much. One of the best pieces of advice I received recently is that someone told me that while I was going for research postdocs, I didn't emphasize my research enough to display how much I had actually done. I made some changes, and the content more accurately reflected what I had done. Also, taking a look at other people's CVs can be great to give you ideas as to things you might have forgotten to include that might make good sense to include.

So, my advice is, that if you haven't already, get lots of feedback to improve your materials while you're working to accrue additional experiences.

 

[LauraH8214]

Hey I realize this topic is old but I am in a similar situation. Accepted to expensive programs last year so I declined them to stay debt free. I was 25 and did not feel the least bit out of place at interviews. Sure there was the occasional 22 year old but I would say the majority were mid 20s or older. Now I am 26 and worried I will feel so much older than my cohort if I am accepted anywhere. Did anyone else start at 26 and did you find it to be about on par with other people in your program? Needing help calming down

 

[Pragma]

When did 25-26 become "old"?

I know people who started grad school in their 40s/50s. My cohort was quite varied. A lot of people don't go straight out of undergrad.

 

[Ollie123]

We had plenty of people older than 26 when they started. Its not a big deal. The developmental difference between 23 and 26 is not exactly enormous anyways since even if everyone started at 22 they would be working closely with students in their labs that are in their late 20's and likely become friends.

Worst case scenario - make some friends outside your program. Which conveniently, is also the best case scenario.

 

[Chalupacabra]

I started my MS/CAS around 25 and my doctoral program at 28. Plenty of people older than me in my cohort and already in the program, including people over 30 or 40 who are training for second (or third) careers. I'd actually say the person who most frequently voices feeling out of place is the one person who came from straight out of undergrad.

 

[MiniLop]

I started my PhD program at age 31. Was definitely the oldest person in my cohort (though not my program), but honestly I haven't felt all that out of place. 26 is probably around the mean age of my cohort when we started.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

I was a non-trad student, and while the ppl who went straight thru were obviously younger, there were others in my cohort who were my age and older. Frankly, I think it is better for a student to have a few years of "real life" under their belt before starting grad school.

 

[LauraH8214]

I was a non-trad student, and while the ppl who went straight thru were obviously younger, there were others in my cohort who were my age and older. Frankly, I think it is better for a student to have a few years of "real life" under their belt before starting grad school.

Hey thanks! how old were you when you started if you do not mind me asking?

 

[smalltownpsych]

If you are 26 then you are way too old to become a psychologist. What are you thinking? By the time you finish the degree and get licensed you might be in your mid-thirties and almost completely over the hill. Actually, I am just teasing you kid (I refer to anyone younger than my kids as kid , not being condescending). I didn't start the doctoral program until I was in my mid-thirties. The worst part was when a twenty-something attractive female in my cohort referred to me as a "father figure". Although I was married at the time, my fragile ego would still rather hear something about my rugged good looks and charm!