How old is too old?

[PsychAge]

I'm contemplating a mid-life career change into psychology. My credentials are very competitive. My reasons for making this change are sound.

But, I'm much older than most doctoral-level students. I don't want to give myself away, so let's say I'm easily old enough to be their parent.

Most programs claim to value diversity. In the real world, when making a hard choice between many highly-qualified candidates, programs may exclude an older candidate. (Flat-out discrimination, prefer to give scarce resources to someone who'll have a longer career, whatever.)

I'm interested in hearing other people's stories, experiences, or thoughts on this. Would your program accept a student who was 40 y/o? 50 y/o? 60 y/o? Does (or did) your program have any students in that age range? Any older students with stories of success or failure? Would it make a difference for a Ph.D. versus a Psy.D. program? A higher-ranked or funded one versus a lower-ranked or non-funded one?

How about internships? I've read the APPIC internship surveys, and they report a number of applicants each year in the 40-49 y/o, 50-59 y/o, and 60+ y/o age ranges. But match rates are typically lower.

Thank you in advance for any information!

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[JD7699]

I'm contemplating a mid-life career change into psychology. My credentials are very competitive. My reasons for making this change are sound.

But, I'm much older than most doctoral-level students. I don't want to give myself away, so let's say I'm easily old enough to be their parent.

Most programs claim to value diversity. In the real world, when making a hard choice between many highly-qualified candidates, programs may exclude an older candidate. (Flat-out discrimination, prefer to give scarce resources to someone who'll have a longer career, whatever.)

I'm interested in hearing other people's stories, experiences, or thoughts on this. Would your program accept a student who was 40 y/o? 50 y/o? 60 y/o? Does (or did) your program have any students in that age range? Any older students with stories of success or failure? Would it make a difference for a Ph.D. versus a Psy.D. program? A higher-ranked or funded one versus a lower-ranked or non-funded one?

How about internships? I've read the APPIC internship surveys, and they report a number of applicants each year in the 40-49 y/o, 50-59 y/o, and 60+ y/o age ranges. But match rates are typically lower.

Thank you in advance for any information!

I do not think there is too old although some may want to evaluate years left working vs debt load for the doctorate. As one of the older students in my program, I found that I needed to stick with some of the others who had some years under their belt. That worked well as the older ones, in my opinion, were just more serious about learning. Best of luck

 

[PsyDWannabe]

Not adding much insight into your issue but, at one of the programs i interviewed at, one of the grad students was at least in the 50's range (what people think when they say 'old guy' or 'really old guy'). Didn't strike me as any less competent and seemed to get on well with faculty and students alike. Don't know how common it is but I have seen a bit of age diversity in the Phd=Clin-Psych pop.

I'm contemplating a mid-life career change into psychology. My credentials are very competitive. My reasons for making this change are sound.

But, I'm much older than most doctoral-level students. I don't want to give myself away, so let's say I'm easily old enough to be their parent.

Most programs claim to value diversity. In the real world, when making a hard choice between many highly-qualified candidates, programs may exclude an older candidate. (Flat-out discrimination, prefer to give scarce resources to someone who'll have a longer career, whatever.)

I'm interested in hearing other people's stories, experiences, or thoughts on this. Would your program accept a student who was 40 y/o? 50 y/o? 60 y/o? Does (or did) your program have any students in that age range? Any older students with stories of success or failure? Would it make a difference for a Ph.D. versus a Psy.D. program? A higher-ranked or funded one versus a lower-ranked or non-funded one?

How about internships? I've read the APPIC internship surveys, and they report a number of applicants each year in the 40-49 y/o, 50-59 y/o, and 60+ y/o age ranges. But match rates are typically lower.

Thank you in advance for any information!

 

[deleted176373]

I was accepted at 40. So yes, it does happen, and yes, I had multiple acceptances. There are unique challenges to being older... most of which I compensated for with my boyish young look. LOL.

I did well in VERY competitive interviews, and do think that some age discrimination exists but it's not insurmountable. I am at a respected program, and was invited to interview at programs fairly high up the food chain. The most prestigious of which was probably University of Kansas for a Ph.D. and Baylor for a Psy.D. program. Match has more to do with interview success than anything else.

I ended up attending USUHS, which has a fairly decent reputation. I am FULLY funded to say the least.

Mark

 

[JockNerd]

At the counseling center where I did my prac there was an intern (now a post-doc there) in her late 50s. Exceptionally competent & a brilliant clinician.

 

[psychmama]

I started grad school in my early 40s and if all goes well I'll be licensed by age 50. I'm a career changer, have three kids (the oldest of whom is getting ready to apply to college), and house with a huge mortgage, a dog, drive a station wagon -- you get the picture. For the most part being older has been an advantage because I bring a certain maturity and life experience. Yes, there have been a few instances where I felt a measure of age discrimination, but this has not held me back too much. Making this career change is the best thing I ever did. I have few regrets.

If you want to discuss any of this further feel free to PM me.

 

[lamorena]

.

 

[ILGirl]

and not to take the focus away from the OP (i don't want to be rude!), but i have questions about age also. i'm getting closer to 30, and it seems a LOT of applicants are right out of undergrad, especially for PsyDs. do schools prefer students right out of undergrad (so they can mold and shape you??) or is someone slightly older considered to be at an advantage b/c of experience? (granted, i know i'm not old, but im definitely a bit older and possibly more mature than some.. i'm married, i own my home, blah blah blah)? i went into an interview recently and met a LOT of young people, right out of undergrad. initially i was a little intimidated, thinking the professors would prefer these younger minds, but then i thought, i have more clinical experience than them, thats gotta count for something, right??

I think it depends on what the POI wants. Some want blank slates. Others want people with more experience. . . . I think on the whole being older is definitely an advantage for you. Most schools are looking for a diverse student body, and being a bit older than the rest, you would offer a different perspective.

I only applied to a few schools. I was interviewed at two, and thus far, I have received one acceptance. I'm probably about 10 years older than you. : )

 

[psychmama]

I think it depends on what the POI wants. Some want blank slates. Others want people with more experience. . . . I think on the whole being older is definitely an advantage for you. Most schools are looking for a diverse student body, and being a bit older than the rest, you would offer a different perspective.

I only applied to a few schools. I was interviewed at two, and thus far, I have received one acceptance. I'm probably about 10 years older than you. : )

+ 1 to the above post. Many programs will value your slightly older status, a few may not. Overall, I don't think you'll encounter much of a problem. My Psyd program gets some students straight from undergrad -- many are closer to your age or even a bit older. I would not be intimidated in the slightest. I bet a lot of those "younger minds" will wish they were in your shoes.

 

[lamorena]

here's hoping! thanks for the insight. and just for the record, no POIs, as the interviews are at PsyD programs.

 

[mswtopsyd]

I am in my early 40s and am trying to return to school for next fall. I have a master's in social worker and have 12+ years of clinical experience (minimal research experience though). I applied to 3 doctoral programs -- one Ph.D., and 2 Psy.D's. Although I was interviewed at all three programs, I have already received a rejection from the Ph.D. program. I'm still waiting to hear from the Psy.D's. I don't know if most Ph.D.'s are less accepting of non-traditional students, but this particular program seemed to indicate that my clinical experience was a negative, while the Psy.D's seemed much more positive about it. Hard to say if age was a factor. I was one of the few older applicants at all the interviews, and most of the interviewers did ask me directly about it, but I expressed that I my stability and focus will be an asset to my learning. I'll have a better sense after hearing back from the Psy.D programs.

Good luck.

 

[psich]

...I don't know if most Ph.D.'s are less accepting of non-traditional students, but this particular program seemed to indicate that my clinical experience was a negative, while the Psy.D's seemed much more positive about it.

How did they indicate that? Did they say why it was a negative?

 

[ILGirl]

I am in my early 40s and am trying to return to school for next fall. I have a master's in social worker and have 12+ years of clinical experience (minimal research experience though). I applied to 3 doctoral programs -- one Ph.D., and 2 Psy.D's. Although I was interviewed at all three programs, I have already received a rejection from the Ph.D. program. I'm still waiting to hear from the Psy.D's. I don't know if most Ph.D.'s are less accepting of non-traditional students, but this particular program seemed to indicate that my clinical experience was a negative, while the Psy.D's seemed much more positive about it. Hard to say if age was a factor. I was one of the few older applicants at all the interviews, and most of the interviewers did ask me directly about it, but I expressed that I my stability and focus will be an asset to my learning. I'll have a better sense after hearing back from the Psy.D programs.

Good luck.

That's interesting. I hope that the interviewers have solid knowledge about interviewing and age discrimination. With you being over 40, they really have to tread lightly. Legally, they really cannot ask you a point blank question about your age. (There are ways to get at the answer they're seeking without asking the age question directly.) But, they'd better be careful, or they are opening themselves up for lawsuits.

I think that maybe the bigger problem for you is that you have minimal research experience. As you know, research experience is big for PhD programs. I think you will have greater luck with the PsyDs. I think they'll appreciate you clinical experience--unless they happen to value the blank slate students.

 

[katciao]

I agree with IlGirl's post to MSWtoPsyD's response: in some of the PhD programs I applied to, I believe that a couple hundred people applied for one slot! Keeping that in mind, the few people who get into these types of programs will likely have a huge number of publications to their names or years of research experience. (That's what I've observed at my interviews.) That's why many people suggest applying to multiple (10+) PhD programs if one can. That being said, I've seen people with what I thought were huge obstacles (like degree from not prestigious state school and total general GRE score of 600 get into other grad programs (social work) at schools considered prestigious by most), so guesses to outcome based solely on norms aren't always correct. Sometimes people who have unusual profiles get in.

Best wishes!

 

[empathiosis]

My program does accept older students. I know because they accepted me! I'm in a fairly competitive funded PhD program in counseling psychology in the Northeast. I was 46 when I started. My cohort members ranged in age from 22-26. Other cohorts have some older folks though, in their mid to late 30's usually. The average age in my program is 26. It's a youngish program, but they do let oldsters in from time to time.

I'm guessing the PsyD programs that you have to pay for (and which are less competitive) are more likely to admit older applicants. The professional schools, Alliant, Argosy, those schools probably have scores of older applicants. I would guess Fielding does as well.

I think an older applicant with significant research/clinical experience and a good fit with the institution has just as good a chance of being accepted as a younger applicant anywhere they apply. As many of the folks who got in will tell you, it's all about fit. Does it help to be younger? I would guess yes, but being older will not disqualify you if you can make a good case for yourself and you have the skills and interests your program is seeking.

I didn't realize that APPIC reported applicant stats so I went and took a look and I noticed you're right, older applicants do have lower match rates. However, they caution against jumping to conclusions because age may be related to a wide range of variables (such as lack of geographic mobility or having attended a less competitive program) which may also influence the match. I did find those figures eye-opening though. An equally interesting stat though is that those who matched had ranked more than 7 programs while those who did not ranked only 4.

You remind me of myself a couple of years ago. You seem to want reassurance that you'll be accepted and happy and that it will all work out, which suggests some ambivalence. But maybe I'm projecting. Feel free to send me a private message and I'd be happy to discuss my experiences with you.

 

[Rivi]

I have known several people in their 40s pursuing a Ph.D. in clinical/counseling psychology. Several of them are wonderful clinicians and I think that the life experience is a real strength many of them bring to the table. The people that seemed to have trouble were the ones with young children or a lot going on outside of school, not that they couldn't do it, it was just more difficult.

 

[SigmundFreudMD]

i would say 50 should be the cutoff, leave room for younger upcoming people...older people already had their chance and enough time to figure out waht they wanted to do

 

[PsyDWannabe]

I hope that when you get older and you want to do anything at all that is seen as competitive, people do not think that way or take that kind of attitude towards you or your goals.

i would say 50 should be the cutoff, leave room for younger upcoming people...older people already had their chance and enough time to figure out waht they wanted to do

 

[SigmundFreudMD]

I hope that when you get older and you want to do anything at all that is seen as competitive, people do not think that way or take that kind of attitude towards you or your goals.

me too

 

[mswtopsyd]

I agree that my lack of research experience probably played a large role in my not getting accepted into the Ph.D. program (I was very surprised they even called me in to interview). But the two faculty members who interviewed me both spent much of the time focusing on my clinical experience, and insisting that I would be "bored" repeating subject matter. At the two Psy.D programs, the interviewers expressed that my experience would be an asset.

As far as asking about my age, I guess they actually stated it as how would I feel being at a 'different life stage' than most of the other students? I thought it was a fair question, and wasn't offended. The Psy.D programs are university affiliated and each offer impressive financial assistance. So I am sitting on pins and needles waiting to hear if either program will accept me and possibly offer any assistance.

 

[jetergirl]

I'm an undergrad and in my class there is a man who is in his 50s who is back in school going for psychology. I'm not sure what his post graduation plans are, but I know he has been encouraged by professors to continue to graduate school and these professors are also faculty in the doctoral program. So..I don't think there is a "too old" if its your passion and what you want to do. As long as you have the credentials, I don't legally, they can NOT accept you because of your age. And if you find out that is why you don't get accepted, you should sue and get tons of money... just saying

 

[PsyDWannabe]

me too

I'm glad you realize that.

 

[Psychologie]

Good evening.

This is my very first time doing this sort of thing so please bare with me.. This thread (thank you PsycheAge) interests me in that I am in a similar situation - I'll be 50 this year - and after living for almost a decade in the Middle East, I'm seriously considering obtaining a degree in psychology with which I can practice professionally.

My interest derives from many years of intense exposure to psychotherapeutic opportunities, particularly with women in the region I still live in, and having developed a modest, albeit rapidly growing, library on things psychology. As my time there is coming to an eventual close (I'm currently here in the US for only a brief visit), I've been investigating the various and vast aspects of earning a suitable degree in psychology that would allow me to expand my abilities at a professional level. My intention is to be here to pursue my studies further.

The dilemma I seem to be facing - and forgive me if I am on the wrong thread for I am still trying to understand how all this works - is which degree to go for. While I have nothing but great regard for psychologists who specialize in treating mental illnesses, I am more inclined to treat people without such disorders.

My aim is to obtain a suitable degree in psychotherapy so that my pursuit in helping people (without mental illnesses) find peace in their lives, can be established at a professional level. I do love research and frequently find myself immersed in it, but in the interest of time and also of primarily practical focus, a PhD has somewhat been ruled out. So then the Psy.D comes to the picture although it, too, entails mental illness. I continue to search.

Lately Counseling has surfaced as an option, although I've noticed its application tends to gravitate toward the educational realm. I'm not looking to becoming a student counselor but rather to provide psychotherapy in other capacities. Is there a degree that allows one to practice as a psychotherapist (vs counselor) whose work does not involve mental illness? Can one obtain a Master's degree in Psychotherapy, for example, and be considered eligible? I came a across a degree called Master of Arts in Community Counseling but it does not appear to be the answer.

I'm not sure what my options are and would very much welcome your insights. If you are open to private messaging, I'd be honored. I hope to begin my schooling in the next semester, perhaps a little later depending on how the relocation goes. As I am here a couple of more weeks, I would like to take advantage of the time and things like the absence of censorship, a huge issue where I live, and get as much information as I can before taking off again.

And please: if I am in the wrong spot, kindly let me know where I can go to post my inquiry.
Thank you.

PS: Incidentally, SigmundFreudMD, life experience speaks volumes for itself. What one knows at 50 goes far beyond what one ever knew prior. The beauty of growth is that it is endless, chance is always omnipresent, figuring out what to do with one's life ought to only cease the day we perish.

 

[LovinPsych]

i would say 50 should be the cutoff, leave room for younger upcoming people...older people already had their chance and enough time to figure out waht they wanted to do

I don't understand why is the age of 50 a cut off point for you of acceptance in change of direction in one's career path? How old are you by the way?

From what I understand anyone can go to school regardless of age as long as they have the requirements. I really don't see why there should be a cut off point other than what the individual has for him/herself...

 

[PsyDWannabe]

My interest derives from many years of intense exposure to psychotherapeutic opportunities, particularly with women in the region I still live in, and having developed a modest, albeit rapidly growing, library on things psychology.

Sounds like you have a niche. That's always good when applying to schools. If anything, it gives you uniqueness of experience and a better fit if you are applying to work with someone who shares your interests.

 

[deleted176373]

Ummm cut-offs... LOL, wanna go down that road?

Should we limit the number of women since it has been shown that fields tend to suffer from a financial aspect and prestige as more women are allowed into a given profession?

Should we limit the number of graduate students total to the number of available internship slots... only allowing professional schools to have a number of slots equal to 110% of the total they place?

Should we limit people older than 50, because they have less time to contribute to the profession and younger professionals are "worth more" over time?

Maybe we should use strict GRE and GPA cut-offs, even stricter than law schools, where your entire career trajectory can be reliably projected from your LSAT score and UGPA?

You might want to think carefully about how we select future psychologists and what is important in the selection process... because age, really shouldn't be any more of a factor than gender, race, religious beliefs, or even physical disability.

Mark

 

[LovinPsych]

Ummm cut-offs... LOL, wanna go down that road?

Should we limit the number of women since it has been shown that fields tend to suffer from a financial aspect and prestige as more women are allowed into a given profession?

Should we limit the number of graduate students total to the number of available internship slots... only allowing professional schools to have a number of slots equal to 110% of the total they place?

Should we limit people older than 50, because they have less time to contribute to the profession and younger professionals are "worth more" over time?

Maybe we should use strict GRE and GPA cut-offs, even stricter than law schools, where your entire career trajectory can be reliably projected from your LSAT score and UGPA?

You might want to think carefully about how we select future psychologists and what is important in the selection process... because age, really shouldn't be any more of a factor than gender, race, religious beliefs, or even physical disability.

Mark

Well said and i agree.

 

[SigmundFreudMD]

Ummm cut-offs... LOL, wanna go down that road?

Should we limit the number of women since it has been shown that fields tend to suffer from a financial aspect and prestige as more women are allowed into a given profession?

Should we limit the number of graduate students total to the number of available internship slots... only allowing professional schools to have a number of slots equal to 110% of the total they place?

Should we limit people older than 50, because they have less time to contribute to the profession and younger professionals are "worth more" over time?

Maybe we should use strict GRE and GPA cut-offs, even stricter than law schools, where your entire career trajectory can be reliably projected from your LSAT score and UGPA?

You might want to think carefully about how we select future psychologists and what is important in the selection process... because age, really shouldn't be any more of a factor than gender, race, religious beliefs, or even physical disability.

Mark

there is no road to go down really, you've created a slippery slope/strawman argument.

and it wouldnt be an official cutoff, just something unwritten that everyone recognized
age is different than skin color/belief system/gender. think about it, lets say someone who is 55 applies, gets in, finishes when they're 62.. now what? start practicing in another year or so, so now they're 64-65 and finally starting on their own, they have maybe a good 10 years of working and that's it. either die or just become too senile to be an effective therapist/researcher/teacher.. just being honest...would you really want to see a therapist who is 80-90 years old?

and we all know how competitive it is, so they're also taking a spot away from someone younger who will get much more use out of the entire experience,

but i will bump my cutoff up to 55 for what it is worth.

i mean really, if you're 60 and want to start studying psychology and spend 6-7 years getting a phd, youre probably just doing it for something to do

 

[SigmundFreudMD]

I don't understand why is the age of 50 a cut off point for you of acceptance in change of direction in one's career path? How old are you by the way?

From what I understand anyone can go to school regardless of age as long as they have the requirements. I really don't see why there should be a cut off point other than what the individual has for him/herself...

im in my 20s.

well, the thread said how old is too old, and i just gave my opinion..in the 50s

surely you dont think a 75 year old should be accepted if they have the credentials/experience ahead of a 25 year old with slightly weaker credentials/experience...or do you?

 

[lamorena]

.

 

[psychmama]

.would you really want to see a therapist who is 80-90 years old?
i mean really, if you're 60 and want to start studying psychology and spend 6-7 years getting a phd, youre probably just doing it for something to do

Wow! I sincerely hope you're a troll and not some misinformed and misguided youngster. FWIW, my first supervisor was a woman psychologist who was 88 yrs old. She was revered in her field as a wise and nurturing supervisor and therapist. She was still seeing patients until a few yrs ago. She died recently at 93 and hundreds of people attended her memorial service. To top it off, this woman did not obtain her doctorate until she was in her 50s, and became a psychoanalyst in her 60s. If I accomplish half of what this woman did after age 50 I'll be happy.

 

[Aura5]

Good evening.

This is my very first time doing this sort of thing so please bare with me.. This thread (thank you PsycheAge) interests me in that I am in a similar situation - I'll be 50 this year - and after living for almost a decade in the Middle East, I'm seriously considering obtaining a degree in psychology with which I can practice professionally.

My interest derives from many years of intense exposure to psychotherapeutic opportunities, particularly with women in the region I still live in, and having developed a modest, albeit rapidly growing, library on things psychology. As my time there is coming to an eventual close (I'm currently here in the US for only a brief visit), I've been investigating the various and vast aspects of earning a suitable degree in psychology that would allow me to expand my abilities at a professional level. My intention is to be here to pursue my studies further.

The dilemma I seem to be facing - and forgive me if I am on the wrong thread for I am still trying to understand how all this works - is which degree to go for. While I have nothing but great regard for psychologists who specialize in treating mental illnesses, I am more inclined to treat people without such disorders.

My aim is to obtain a suitable degree in psychotherapy so that my pursuit in helping people (without mental illnesses) find peace in their lives, can be established at a professional level. I do love research and frequently find myself immersed in it, but in the interest of time and also of primarily practical focus, a PhD has somewhat been ruled out. So then the Psy.D comes to the picture although it, too, entails mental illness. I continue to search.

Lately Counseling has surfaced as an option, although I've noticed its application tends to gravitate toward the educational realm. I'm not looking to becoming a student counselor but rather to provide psychotherapy in other capacities. Is there a degree that allows one to practice as a psychotherapist (vs counselor) whose work does not involve mental illness? Can one obtain a Master's degree in Psychotherapy, for example, and be considered eligible? I came a across a degree called Master of Arts in Community Counseling but it does not appear to be the answer.

I'm not sure what my options are and would very much welcome your insights. If you are open to private messaging, I'd be honored. I hope to begin my schooling in the next semester, perhaps a little later depending on how the relocation goes. As I am here a couple of more weeks, I would like to take advantage of the time and things like the absence of censorship, a huge issue where I live, and get as much information as I can before taking off again.

And please: if I am in the wrong spot, kindly let me know where I can go to post my inquiry.
Thank you.

PS: Incidentally, SigmundFreudMD, life experience speaks volumes for itself. What one knows at 50 goes far beyond what one ever knew prior. The beauty of growth is that it is endless, chance is always omnipresent, figuring out what to do with one's life ought to only cease the day we perish.

Psychologie...you might want to post this as a separate thread because I'm afraid your post might just get lost in this one about age. I've seen several people (including me) post just a general thread about their situation and ask for advice, etc. So that might help you get responses direct to your situation.

I'm curious what you are asking, too, about the counseling doctorate. I find that appealing, less emphasis (it seems) on curing illness and more about helping people cope with stressful things, etc. However, like you, being a therapist at a college counseling center or pure student counseling doesn't really pique my interest.

So...sorry I don't have any answers, but, you might want to make a separate thread just so your stuff doesn't get overlooked!

 

[psich]

i would say 50 should be the cutoff, leave room for younger upcoming people...older people already had their chance and enough time to figure out waht they wanted to do

Hmmm, I can see SigmundFreudMD's point. But, we have to trust - no matter how random the process may seem - that what the adcoms are doing are for the best. They have been in the field and have the experience to differentiate between applicants. Who knows what latent skills are waiting to be used in the older applicant? Skills that can change lives and advance the field? There is no guarantee that a younger applicant will do the same or has the same potential. I think it all boils down to trusting the process.

 

[Aura5]

think about it, lets say someone who is 55 applies, gets in, finishes when they're 62.. now what? start practicing in another year or so, so now they're 64-65 and finally starting on their own, they have maybe a good 10 years of working and that's it. either die or just become too senile to be an effective therapist/researcher/teacher.. just being honest...would you really want to see a therapist who is 80-90 years old?

Well, that's for THEM to decide. Okay let's say by the time they get all squared away, they are 67. They do what they aspire to do and love for, say, 2 years, then get a stroke and have to give it up. Well, okay. But that's their prerogative to choose whether they want to run that risk of maybe only having a few years to practice or research or teach, or whatever. If they want to invest the time/money into it at that stage in life, again, that's their prerogative.

If they go through all the schooling that the youngin's do, then they're just as qualified. Even if it is for only 5 years. And you could get hit by a truck tomorrow, too, so you know.

And if someone was 80 giving me therapy...as long as s/he was competent and good and knew what they were doing and helping me get better, that's what matters. I'd rather have that than some arrogant, patronizing 30 year old. (Not that young people are arrogant, I am one... and I've oddly been met with some "ageism" where I work, of people putting me into a category or writing me off or assuming I'm one way or another just b/c I'm young.) I'm just saying. I would want a good/qualified therapist, no matter what age.

 

[ILGirl]

age is different than skin color/belief system/gender.

It's discrimination. And, it is illegal to discriminate against people who are over the age of 40. Thus, your cut off could never happen--unless you can change federal law.

I know you said it would be unwritten. Thus, it would be harder to prove. But, it would not stop the lawsuits. An older applicant would have to prove that younger, less qualified applicants were admitted before them, which would be difficult but not impossible.

Some of my professors have been in their 70s, and they are sought after for their expertise.

I believe that a diverse student body adds significantly to one's education. People from different generations often look at the world differently. If you have someone in his or her 50s in a class with you, s/he may add insights that you had never even considered.

 

[Psychologie]

Sounds like you have a niche. That's always good when applying to schools. If anything, it gives you uniqueness of experience and a better fit if you are applying to work with someone who shares your interests.

PsyDWannabe, thank you for your encouragement. I'll certainly keep your reply in mind. While I have an idea where all this will take me, I'm still very much in the process of possibilities. It'll be interesting where all this takes me.

 

[Psychologie]

Psychologie...you might want to post this as a separate thread because I'm afraid your post might just get lost in this one about age. I've seen several people (including me) post just a general thread about their situation and ask for advice, etc. So that might help you get responses direct to your situation.

I'm curious what you are asking, too, about the counseling doctorate. I find that appealing, less emphasis (it seems) on curing illness and more about helping people cope with stressful things, etc. However, like you, being a therapist at a college counseling center or pure student counseling doesn't really pique my interest.

So...sorry I don't have any answers, but, you might want to make a separate thread just so your stuff doesn't get overlooked!

Many thanks to you, Aura5. That's a good idea.
Now if only I figure out the way to start a thread... I'm all new to this. Or better said, this is all new to me.
As you have the same quest, do you happen to know any existing threads on the subject? I'd like to check those out if you do.
Thanks again!

 

[Psychologie]

im in my 20s.

well, the thread said how old is too old, and i just gave my opinion..in the 50s

surely you dont think a 75 year old should be accepted if they have the credentials/experience ahead of a 25 year old with slightly weaker credentials/experience...or do you?

My dear SigmundFreudMD, clearly you have much to learn.
Psychologists like Allen Wheelis you could benefit from greatly, should you want to expand yourself somewhat. He's an old geezer with major contributions to the world of psychology. May not be your type.

Have you considered that you may in the wrong field? Or country?

 

[mswtopsyd]

As I look around at all the twenty something applicants at my interviews, I can't imagine ever going to any of them as a therapist. I prefer someone older, wiser, and more experienced. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Aura5]

Many thanks to you, Aura5. That's a good idea.
Now if only I figure out the way to start a thread... I'm all new to this. Or better said, this is all new to me.
As you have the same quest, do you happen to know any existing threads on the subject? I'd like to check those out if you do.
Thanks again!

Go to the main part where the list of threads are http://forums.studentdoctor.net/forumdisplay.php?f=57

On the left side, right above the box of threads, click on the button that says "New Thread". Hope that helps!

 

[SigmundFreudMD]

Well, that's for THEM to decide. Okay let's say by the time they get all squared away, they are 67. They do what they aspire to do and love for, say, 2 years, then get a stroke and have to give it up. Well, okay. But that's their prerogative to choose whether they want to run that risk of maybe only having a few years to practice or research or teach, or whatever. If they want to invest the time/money into it at that stage in life, again, that's their prerogative.

If they go through all the schooling that the youngin's do, then they're just as qualified. Even if it is for only 5 years. And you could get hit by a truck tomorrow, too, so you know.

And if someone was 80 giving me therapy...as long as s/he was competent and good and knew what they were doing and helping me get better, that's what matters. I'd rather have that than some arrogant, patronizing 30 year old. (Not that young people are arrogant, I am one... and I've oddly been met with some "ageism" where I work, of people putting me into a category or writing me off or assuming I'm one way or another just b/c I'm young.) I'm just saying. I would want a good/qualified therapist, no matter what age.

Yes it is for them to decide if they want to apply or not, but it's not up to them to decide if they get accepted. and im sure that those who decide who gets in take age into consideration, they would look at all the training one gets and then only spend 2 years using it.. it is a waste, give it to someone who will spend 40 years using it.

My dear SigmundFreudMD, clearly you have much to learn.
Psychologists like Allen Wheelis you could benefit from greatly, should you want to expand yourself somewhat. He's an old geezer with major contributions to the world of psychology. May not be your type.

Have you considered that you may in the wrong field? Or country?

so do you normally ask people for their opinions and then passively-aggressively scoff at those which you dont agree with..

As I look around at all the twenty something applicants at my interviews, I can't imagine ever going to any of them as a therapist. I prefer someone older, wiser, and more experienced. Just my 2 cents.

i would rather have a 75 year old with 40 years clinical experience than a 75 year old who just received their PhD 2 years ago.

 

[Aura5]

Yes it is for them to decide if they want to apply or not, but it's not up to them to decide if they get accepted. and im sure that those who decide who gets in take age into consideration, they would look at all the training one gets and then only spend 2 years using it.. it is a waste, give it to someone who will spend 40 years using it.

So you feel the doctorate program would be 'investing' unwisely in giving a spot/training/education to someone who won't be using it for that long.

I don't know, I guess if you want to look at it that way...but 55 really isn't THAT old. They could get a good hunk of therapy/practice/research in in that time that could be useful to the field and to the patients they may treat. I'm sort of an 'old soul' in that, even though I'm 24, 50 years old doesn't seem old. If someone wanted to START when they were 85, that might be pushing it. However I wouldn't tell them not to try, because you never know. Now if they try and don't get admitted, okay...but still, it's worth a shot. If the program decides they have something to offer, then that's that.

And like someone pointed out, I'm not sure you're allowed to discriminate by age, even if it is this unspoken rule.

 

[Aura5]

i would rather have a 75 year old with 40 years clinical experience than a 75 year old who just received their PhD 2 years ago.

Maybe I'm being prejudiced now, but I'm not sure I agree with that. Someone who's been in the field THAT long and had their main schooling from a long, long time ago...might be a little out of touch of the most recent methods/experience. You know, might be stuck in their ways, maybe getting a little foggy and creaky but everyone keeps them around because of their length of practice. The 75-yr old with 2 years is more fresh from the oven of information/methodology.

Who knows though. Just tossing it around.

 

[psich]

Who knows what’s going to happen tomorrow? There is always a chance that a younger individual may not live to see another day, whereas an older individual may live for 20 more years, conducting great research or positively changing their lives of his or her clients. A younger individual may sit for 40 years with a clinical psychology degree without doing much for others, while an older person may contribute more to the field and to clients in five years than the former.

That said, I don’t think that age is the only thing that adcoms consider when they decide who to accept. A younger person who applies probably has more research experience and/or clinical experiences relevant to the field than many career-changers out there who may have switched from a completely different field of study. They also have the advantage that they come in knowing what they would like to do, whereas some people on the committee may question another older applicant’s reason for jumping into clinical psychology. They might ask, Why now? Why this field? What does this person have to offer? A younger person is also more malleable and flexible to change, and may be more able to adopt to the ways and customs of their mentor or institution. Of course, older applicants may do so, but 30 years of another field often sets that person with a particular way of thinking. Then again, an older applicant is more mature and has the life experience that will no doubt aid them in their practice or research in clinical psychology. Switching from another field may help them conceptualize cases or research better than someone without that life experience. There are several members on SDN who went in at an older age, and it appears that many of them, if not all, are competent and know what they are doing and what they've gotten themselves into. Do you think it’s fair to draw the net so narrow as to turn away individuals who may really know what they’re doing and can contribute to the field? Asking someone to restrict because of age is equivalent to asking someone to admit people only of a certain ethnic or cultural background, or sex.

Turning away a student because of their age isn’t really the logical thing to do. We have to be secure in knowing that the process is working the best it should and that our qualities will stand out, regardless of the pool of applicants who are involved.

 

[psychmama]

Who knows what’s going to happen tomorrow? There is always a chance that a younger individual may not live to see another day, whereas an older individual may live for 20 more years, conducting great research or positively changing their lives of his or her clients. A younger individual may sit for 40 years with a clinical psychology degree without doing much for others, while an older person may contribute more to the field and to clients in five years than the former.

That said, I don’t think that age is the only thing that adcoms consider when they decide who to accept. A younger person who applies probably has more research experience and/or clinical experiences relevant to the field than many career-changers out there who may have switched from a completely different field of study. They also have the advantage that they come in knowing what they would like to do, whereas some people on the committee may question another older applicant’s reason for jumping into clinical psychology. They might ask, Why now? Why this field? What does this person have to offer? A younger person is also more malleable and flexible to change, and may be more able to adopt to the ways and customs of their mentor or institution. Of course, older applicants may do so, but 30 years of another field often sets that person with a particular way of thinking. Then again, an older applicant is more mature and has the life experience that will no doubt aid them in their practice or research in clinical psychology. Switching from another field may help them conceptualize cases or research better than someone without that life experience. There are several members on SDN who went in at an older age, and it appears that many of them, if not all, are competent and know what they are doing and what they've gotten themselves into. Do you think it’s fair to draw the net so narrow as to turn away individuals who may really know what they’re doing and can contribute to the field? Asking someone to restrict because of age is equivalent to asking someone to admit people only of a certain ethnic or cultural background, or sex.

Turning away a student because of their age isn’t really the logical thing to do. We have to be secure in knowing that the process is working the best it should and that our qualities will stand out, regardless of the pool of applicants who are involved.

I really like this post.

 

[zenman]

but i will bump my cutoff up to 55 for what it is worth.

i mean really, if you're 60 and want to start studying psychology and spend 6-7 years getting a phd, youre probably just doing it for something to do

I'm 59 and finishing up a post-master psychiatric nurse practitioner program. I don't intend to enroll in a Ph.D. psychology program but probably will get a Ph.D.. I'm doing it because I love it, need to survive in today's world just like anyone else, and most importantly of all, now that I'm at the age where I know most everything, I can give my patients their money's worth. If you're under 50...maybe 47...you're still trying to find your zipper.

 

[Buzzwordsoldier]

Found it! Now what? (age 42)

 

[psychmama]

If you're under 50...maybe 47...you're still trying to find your zipper.

Okay -- I'm almost there, but still using velcro (48).

 

[Psychologie]

Go to the main part where the list of threads are http://forums.studentdoctor.net/forumdisplay.php?f=57

On the left side, right above the box of threads, click on the button that says "New Thread". Hope that helps!

Thank you, bella. See you there perhaps.

 

[Psychologie]

so do you normally ask people for their opinions and then passively-aggressively scoff at those which you dont agree with..




Actually I was a bystander reading your comments, not asking you anything, opinions or otherwise. Further, your 'diagnosis' (perception is probably a more apt description) of passive-aggressive behaviour warrants reassessment - you are far from the mark.

Scoff? I laugh.

Lighten up, for heaven's sake. Life is far too gorgeous to get your knickers all in a twist about something you know so little about. Opinions, sure we all have them - but based on what, this is the oyster.

Amusing to have met you. Perhaps we shall meet on graduation day. Then again, perhaps not.

Carry on - I'm outa here.