How should I go about this?

[uRabbit]

Link to original topic: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=8887828

I am 21. I have worked as a direct care staff for persons with developmentally disabilities for the past three years. I am tired of working minimum wage sixty hours a week, when I'm not bettering myself though school. I am very interested in taking up Psychology. However, there are a few obstacles that I face before even entering into a program.

1) My local university (Boise State) only offers a Bachelors degree. This, obviously, is not sufficient enough to start a career. However, I am wondering if a Bachelors in Pursuit of Masters or Ph.D would get me anywhere. Maybe working in the same field I am now?

2) Once I finish Bachelors, I face the issue of where to go next. My plans are to move to Seattle and go to UW. I also plan to live there for as long as I can foresee. So I must a) find work in Seattle, b) enter into UW's Psych program.

3) I know very little about what it takes to get the Ph.D. Is a Masters required? What type of work history is required? Is it possible to work with my Masters while working toward a Ph.D?

I'm really hoping this can be a gradual process. Like I said, I'm making minimum wage and working too many hours. I cannot live like this forever. And this job will not get me the money I need to move to Seattle. I need to be able to work with a BS in Psychology, save money, move to Seattle, enroll in UW, etc.

Is this a realistic possibility, or am I wasting my time?

Thank you all!

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[Ollie123]

Certainly a Bachelor's can get you a bump in income, though realistically you will probably cap out around 40k a year for a full-time job with a bachelor's in psychology, with rare exception. Of course that is for traditional psychology jobs (clinical or research). If you pursue jobs in other areas (e.g. sometimes HR departments hire people with psychology degrees) the pay structure, promotion rates, etc. are different

University of Washington is one of the most competitive clinical psychology programs in the country. If you can get a 4.0 GPA, a 1600 GRE and find the cure for cancer I still wouldn't assume you will get into the program - last year they received over 400 applications and only accepted 8 people. I'm not that familiar with the university or licensure laws in Washington but you might want to look into other options. An MSW program, a master's in mental health counseling, etc. might fill your needs and generally have far higher acceptance rates. Social workers aren't typically raking in the cash (quite the opposite) but it would likely be a substantial improvement over minimum wage.

I'm not trying to dissuade you from pursuing a PhD, but the "best" grad school candidates often apply to 10+ places of varying levels of competition, and many still do not get in. Only applying to one place when that one place happens to be one of the most difficult schools to gain acceptance to in the nation is just asking for trouble. I'd just encourage you to really think through what your goals are, what your options are, etc. If there are alternative paths to doing what you want to do (what is that by the way? Clinical work? Research? Any decent paying job?) there may be paths that are less frustrating and more realistic.

 

[uRabbit]

Wow! 8:300! I really appreciate your honesty. It is very refreshing, when my usual reply is vague.

I am really just looking to get into the Psychology field and earn somewhere between 40k-50k a year. Sure, I want nice things for myself and my family, but what's most important is my happiness and time away from work. I am not exactly sure what I want to do. I was hoping someone here could point me in the right direction. Googling "psychology careers" these days usually just takes me to online degrees, which is obviously not what I want, nor should anyone, in this field.

I won't be the best student. My highest GPA in high school was 2.9 (without studying). I went to college (Apollo College) and got my certificate in Massage Therapy and graduated near the top of my class in clinical application, but my bookwork was a bit poor. I now have the lifestyle that provides for more studying, however. I'm generally more responsible now as well.

Any ideas of what I should strive for?

 

[Ollie123]

Well, its hard for me to make recommendations without knowing what kind of work you want to do. There are many different career paths within psychology ranging from social work/case management and other such "field" jobs to people who serve as statisticians and pretty much only deal with spreadsheets all day.

Your salary expectations seem moderate and to be honest, it doesn't sound like a PhD would be appropriate, at least in my opinion. Again, not trying to be discouraging, just trying to be realistic. I'd seriously consider social work. There is still some flexibility in terms of the kind of career you have, but the admissions process isn't as harsh, there are plenty of jobs available in most major cities, etc. Salaries aren't great, but your salary expectations aren't that high. Another thing to consider might be psychiatric nursing...pay is even better for them. More importantly, both are careers where you can limit your applications to one school and realistically have a chance at getting in, and are in high demand where you can expect to have jobs waiting for you when you come out the other side. Nursing more so than social work, but certain areas of social work are in very high demand. The hospital I work at is hiring medical social workers by the dozen - its secure, decent pay and good benefits - if that's what you are looking for it may be a good option.

 

[uRabbit]

Psychiatric Nurses are Registered Nurses with a specialty, correct? If so, I looked into RN before, but it's quite a competitive program as well. And the coursework is based on more A&P than Psych.

I'm hoping 50k + spouse's income would be enough to live inside Seattle.

I think I am most qualified for social work, as it shares some similarities with my current line of work.

 

[wrsparks]

I would order a book off Amazon or something that overviews the various psychology options. Once you read through that and have a better idea what you're looking for, then I would google more specific things and ask more specific questions here. I googled "books about psychology careers" and found a lot like

Opportunities in Psychology Careers
by Donald E. Super, Charles M. Super
Also, if I'm throwing in my two cents, I don't think a PhD is for you. You don't really go all the way without making personal and financial sacrifices. Social work could be a good option if you like the population that you are working with presently. Also, look into the BSW vs MSW degrees. If you don't already have a traditional 4yr degree, the BSW might be a good option. That being said, social work isn't my area. Maybe someone out there with more information will chime in.

 

[uRabbit]

I thank you for that link. I will look into it.

I'm not necessarily content with my population. I'd rather work with independent persons that are not under Health & Welfare's control.

 

[uRabbit]

I'm sitting here at Barnes & Noble, with my face burried in The World of the Counselor: An Introduction to the Counseling Profession (Third Edition) by Ed Neukrug.

I am certain that I would enjoy working in a community counseling center and/ private practice as either a counselor or case manager.



A BSW would help me get started in this, correct? I was thinking I could get my BSW, work to save money to move to Seattle, then continue on to get my MSW.

Sound about right?

 

[wrsparks]

SEE! The book was where to start
I think you could probably start with a BSW and move to a MSW and work in those places. OR you could do an BA or BS in psychology and then get a masters that with set you up to get an LPC. Either one of those would work. I'd look at the similarities and differences between the two and decide which looks better to you.
Good Luck!

 

[uRabbit]

Masters in Psych is required for LPC?

Good to know.

 

[Lanntis]

Masters in Psych is required for LPC?

Good to know.

Not a Masters in Pysch per se. A lot of people go into counseling from other fields that don't relate much to counseling at all, so they go back to school to get another bachelors in psychology to move into a Masters in counseling. You don't necessarily need to do that though, many counseling programs like the diversity of different fields coming in.

I'm in the same boat as you, trying to figure out what type of counseling and/or social work etc. I'm enrolled as a "second-degree seeking" undergrad just to take about 18 credit hours of psychology courses to get a nice foundation that will align me with Master's counseling programs while I figure out what to specialize in. The university setting will generally have a few options for you. The psych department may offer a Master's in psychology, but often times that program is for students looking to go on and become psychologists in academia. My university houses all the counseling programs in the School of Education. We have a Masters in School Counseling, a Mental Health Counselor, and a Marriage and Family Therapy track.

If you go to the school/educational/vocational route that Master's takes you towards the LPC license (in my state).

If you take the Mental Health Counseling route you go get licensed as an LMHC

And if you do Mariage and Family Therapy you get licensed as an LMFT.

I think a lot of people that do the Master's in psychology are more broad in their future path and aren't sure whether they plan to go into counseling, or further into psychology as either a researcher or a therapist, or both. Or it's just what is most available and convenient to their individual circumstances (geography, financial reasons, family etc.).

Whichever you choose though, make SURE it's an accredited program with whatever branch you're in. For you, most likely CACREP accreditation.

Just to give you an example of what my university describes their mental health counseling program as:

"The Master of Arts (M.A.) in Counselor Education, Mental Health Counseling Track, is designed to educate and prepare individuals interested in working as mental health counselors in community mental health settings, institutions, hospitals, schools, and private practice. Nationally accredited by the Council for the Accreditation of Counseling and Related Education Programs (CACREP), the program meets all requirements as outlined by the Florida Department of Medical Quality Assurance for licensure as a Mental Health Counselor. This program emphasizes the blending of research and theory with practical applied experience. It also emphasizes and reflects the urban and multicultural nature of our community, as well as general trends within specified counseling fields. The program involves intensive field work with accompanying seminars."

That sounds about right for what I think you're looking for. If you get the mental health counselor degree in this state, its important to not leave it until you are licensed (as an LMHC), because based on other things I have read it is very difficult to get your required hours for licensing if you jump states. There appears to be some issues with places like NY not recognizing LMHC's. CA is another difficult state as generally only social workers, LMFT's, and Psy.d/Ph.d's can be licensed to do therapy and have private practice there (No LPC's yet).

Anyway, I hope this helps you somewhat, sorry for the long response, i'm rather verbose . I will continue to go crazy figuring out my path!

 

[uRabbit]

Here's a little ditty about the state of Washington's licensure process: http://www.doh.wa.gov/hsqa/Counseling/Documents/CounsProf.pdf

If I read that right, one could get a Masters in Psych, Social Work, Counseling, etc. in order to obtain licensure to be an LPC or related.

edit: However, Boise State University has BSW, MSW, BS/BA in Psychology, and MA in Counselor Education. Haha oh goodness!

From the Counselor Education page:

The Counselor Education Department is committed to attracting students from diverse backgrounds (including those from under-represented populations) and to providing an educational environment which is safe, inviting, and supportive to all.

The department offers a Master of Arts in Counseling degree with an emphasis in school counseling or addiction studies, a graduate certificate in addiction studies, and a graduate certificate in gerontological studies.

The goal of the school counseling program is to recruit and graduate students who possess the desire and the skills to meet the challenges of the changing role of school counselors. The School Counseling Program is CACREP accredited. The Addiction emphasis' goal is to prepare students for a variety of positions in the addiction field. The Gerontological Certificate programs goal is to enable students to choose a unified, coherent group of courses in gerontological studies which improve their understanding of issues related to aging.

So, seeing as how that program's emphasis is on addiction or school counseling, I'm thinking the SW program would be best? (Since I'm aiming for LPC, most likely.)

 

[Lanntis]

If you go the social work route, you will pursue your license in Washington as a LASW or a LICSW. You can't get licensed as an LPC with the Masters in social work. Though there are some similar functions with social work and counseling as you know, they are still different fields. If you want to be in private practice either route can work out, LICSW's generally do the same thing as counselors, however their views of a person's well-being include many external environmental factors (food, shelter, other basic needs) first, in determining how to best handle someone's case. LPC's are usually focused primarily with what's going on inside your head and less so on the environmental aspects contributing to the patient's mental state.

Perhaps also do some research on what Washington state prefers. Look at job listings and such. New York tends to prefer clinical social workers over LPC's and other counselor types. social workers are one of the oldest helping specialties and as such they have strong support and lobbying in all 50 states and D.C. LPC's are catching up though.

 

[uRabbit]

Looking through seattle.craigslist.org and indeed.com, most employers for LICSW's and LASW's require Masters in SW and two years experience. Searching for just 'Counselor', most employers require Masters in Psych or related study and two years experience. And most of these employers (at least the ones that post salary) pay 32k-45k.

So I guess my question would be, how the heck am I going to find work out of school? Ha. Boise State has job placement counselors.

Oh and here's a general question. When you're pursuing a Masters, do you graduate with a Bachelors first and then just re-enroll?

 

[Lanntis]

Looking through seattle.craigslist.org and indeed.com, most employers for LICSW's and LASW's require Masters in SW and two years experience. Searching for just 'Counselor', most employers require Masters in Psych or related study and two years experience. And most of these employers (at least the ones that post salary) pay 32k-45k.

So I guess my question would be, how the heck am I going to find work out of school? Ha. Boise State has job placement counselors.

Oh and here's a general question. When you're pursuing a Masters, do you graduate with a Bachelors first and then just re-enroll?

Finding work out of school is the $60,000 question. You have to work hard during your grad program finding points of entry through contacts, and other experiences that will place you in the work environment you want. Once you're licensed then its a matter of staying vigilant and hunting for a job like everyone else. Could be more or less hard depending on your area and the glut of counselors/social workers looking for work and the general need for them in your area.

Seattle, i'm not sure but since its urban there's often more competition since there's lots of people who want to do exactly what you're doing in a metro area. Suburbs seem even more competitive, and rural areas usually the least competitive.

When pursuing a Master's you finish a bachelor's degree and then go through the process of applying to grad school. Depending on your desired field, sometimes you NEED to have a bachelor in that field before you can get a Master's in it. Some social work programs require you to have your BSW before you can get your MSW, but most do not. The counseling programs usually don't require a certain bachelor's but it helps if you have a background in psychology, sociology, social work etc. If you're at the same university as your undergrad, it's usually easier to get into grad school because their departments can simply move all your transcripts around and so forth for you, so you save money.

You'll graduate, get your degree, then you'll reapply to the university through the Graduate Admissions department. It's just applying for college all over again really, except there's a different test involved for entry depending on your area of study. Plus, volunteer, work experience, and all that jazz.

Depending on the program, you'll most likely need to take the GRE if you go for the psych/counseling programs, some social work programs don't even require the GRE though. What matters though is that they're accredited.

 

[uRabbit]

Yep, BSU is accredited. I'm a bit confused with their programs, however. They have a Full Program MSW (2 year) and an Advanced Standing MSW (1 year). I'm browsing the site, trying to understand the difference. http://www.boisestate.edu/socwork/academics/MSW/index.htm

Thank you all for the immense help! It has been truly inspiring and it has boosted my confidence quite a bit!

Next hurdles: financing, and working out my work schedule that is not pliable. Hmm. How to keep making $1700/mo while going to school. Should be interesting.

Edit: was wondering... Should I get my undergraduate in something other than social work?

 

[Lanntis]

you're accredited there, so you're good. the Advanced Standing MSW is something that social work programs offer to people who received their Bachelors degree in social work (BSW). If you have a BSW, you can generally apply for advanced standing in an MSW program and finish your degree sooner and get started on getting your required license hours. If you do not have your bachelor's in SW, then you must attend the full 2 year MSW programs. That's all that advanced standing version means.

(wow. i'm surprising myself with all the little details of all these different fields I keep helping, friends and strangers with.... maybe for myself I should go look into higher education administration and work in student affairs, then I can do my career counseling stuff I like. )

 

[uRabbit]

Oh awesome! It's a fast track then. That's great to know!

And you know, educating others is one of the best ways to keep yourself educated.

Now how about financial aid? I work full time and I'm sure my schedule will conflict. I'm thinking that maybe I should get loans out to cover all my static, non-changeable bills. I have a $280 car payment. Can't sell the car due to negative equity. Insurance is $280 as well. I can move back in with my parents and pay them $100 a month. I've got credit cards I'm paying off at about $70 a month. Plus some other bills and it comes out to about $1100/mo. Should I consider getting loans to cover these or some of these in order to quit my job and get a part time job?

Edit: How much should I expect to earn in the Seattle area with a MSW? I've checked salary.com and other such sites, but those are based on the entire population of persons in that group, rather than those in their first year. Granted, I do plan on beginning work when I get my BSW, but we all know things don't always go as planned.

 

[SOLDIER]

I wanted to be a neuro psychologist most part of my life but I ended up in medicine
What I am trying to say is take it day by day do evryting that life throws your way so that u regret noting
So my advise is go and do your BA degree and take it from there read evryting u can get your hands on

 

[uRabbit]

I wanted to be a neuro psychologist most part of my life but I ended up in medicine
What I am trying to say is take it day by day do evryting that life throws your way so that u regret noting
So my advise is go and do your BA degree and take it from there read evryting u can get your hands on

I plan to, most definitely.

I'm reading the few social work books I can come across right now as it is.

Thank you for the advise!

 

[SOLDIER]

I plan to, most definitely.

I'm reading the few social work books I can come across right now as it is.

Thank you for the advise!

Its a pleaser I think u will make it

What do u really like about psychology ?

 

[uRabbit]

Its a pleaser I think u will make it

What do u really like about psychology ?

The human mind, really. I'm also skilled with people, so that helps. I've wanted to do some sort of counseling for as long as I can remember.

 

[SOLDIER]

Ever thought abt the police and study threw them u know victim counseling

 

[Cogito ergo es]

Ever thought abt the police and study threw them u know victim counseling

Forensic psychology also seems to be quite popular these days, something worth taking a look at.

 

[SOLDIER]

I agree with Cogito. Forensic psychology is a interesting field and I think a young man like your self should take a look into it