How the cult of trauma took over mental health

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PsychSupreme said:
While I’m ranting (now hours after my previous comment), have you all seen the news of how non-randomized small-N trials among treatment-resistant patients have proven that psychedelics will CURE PTSD? 🙄
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Where did IFS even come from? Like, I didn't even know it was a thing. I thought I knew all about the fringe treatments like ART, brainspotting, you name it, but this one is out of left field for me.
 
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cara susanna said:
Where did IFS even come from? Like, I didn't even know it was a thing. I thought I knew all about the fringe treatments like ART, brainspotting, you name it, but this one is out of left field for me.
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I believe a psychologist(?) by the name of Peter Levine write a book espousing the general “theory” and then it took off from there. It’s very much based on “parts” into which the self had “split into” in order to protect people from past trauma. It’s almost scary how easily someone with moderate-severe cluster B pathology (trouble with integrated sense of self) could latch onto this and engage in *even more splitting,* but skepticism and caution be damned, right?! (I also think the very existence of IFS lends a LOT of credence to the sociocognitive model of dissociative symptoms).
 
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futureapppsy2 said:
Omg did you see that r/ therapists post where the OP said that they didn’t know basic counseling skills but were “trauma informed” and wanted to learn “EMDR and IPF”? (I only lurk in therapy subreddits and post mostly in popculture ones , which are surprisingly open to EBP! I’ve never gotten downvoted for posting actual psychological science there, oddly).
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The best uptake I have ever gotten on Reddit for basic CBT ideas and suggestions they might be helpful was on a competitive fighting game sub, no joke. Could have done without the many PMs that came in asking for medical advice but still.
 
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Rant addendum:

How about all of the therapists on YouTube and TikTok and so forth making videos analyzing or teaching about “the psychology” of x, y, or z thing. “The psychology of narcissism” or “the psychology at play in Finding Nemo” or “the PSYCHOLOGY of trauma…”

Most of these people aren’t psychologists and have no background in psychology or psychological theory past the bachelor’s level (after which they went into counseling or social work), assuming they did a psych undergrad. Stop selling your opinions or input as “psychology,” especially when you’re not citing any psychology literature or making reference to any empirically validated psychological theory. Maybe that shouldn’t bother me as much as it does, but it’s a real pet peeve.
 
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There’s this dude and his channel/brand is called psychacks. Dude went to the garbagiest of garbage professional schools in cali. He has 300k followers with a brand and also a practice billing 400 an hour for therapy. That for therapy alone. Specializes in men’s issues, goes on all the red pill podcasts. Sometimes I think I’m doing it wrong.
 
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BuckeyeLove said:
There’s this dude and his channel/brand is called psychacks. Dude went to the garbagiest of garbage professional schools in cali. He has 300k followers with a brand and also a practice billing 400 an hour for therapy. That for therapy alone. Specializes in men’s issues, goes on all the red pill podcasts. Sometimes I think I’m doing it wrong.
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Me as therapist: "What do you think your goal will be in this psychotherapy?"

Client: "I want less responsibility in my life"

Me as therapist: "Actually, therapy is all about--at the end of the day--adopting more responsibility (for your life, how it works out)"

I'm never getting $400/hr
 
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Fan_of_Meehl said:
Me as therapist: "What do you think your goal will be in this psychotherapy?"

Client: "I want less responsibility in my life"

Me as therapist: "Before we begin, did you fill out the automated credit card billing authorization? "

I'm getting $400/hr
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Fixed that for ya 😉
 
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From Twitter:

BPD1.jpg
BPD2.jpg
 
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Just last week I saw the website of someone working in Colorado advertising herself as “Dr.” So-and-So and using words like “healing and recovery.” She never said what her approach was but made lots of references to some pseudosciencey jargon. None of her services used terms that are technically related to therapy and her education wasn’t listed. So I finally found the tiny Disclaimer link on her page and not only is she not licensed as a psychologist, but she’s lot licensed at all. She was a “certified life coach,” and her LinkedIn page showed a PhD from an online, unaccredited psychology program. So I went BACK to the Disclaimers page and noticed it said something to the effect of “While Dr. So-and-So is academically qualified and has appropriate expertise, she is unlicensed and none of her services or opinions should be construed as professional advice on mental health matters.” I’m tempted to share the link to her site but it feels vindictive and I don’t know how the people around here feel about that kind of brigading, but people like this need to be stopped. I was tempted to report her to the Colorado board of licensures but I don’t think she’s *technically* doing anything illegal.
 
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clausewitz2 said:
Negatively. Organizing informal harassment is not really the intended purpose of SDN. By all means exercise legal channels for reporting anything fishy, though.
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Oh, come on. He/she has a public website with a contact address and is advertising services that are largely (seemingly) misleading and or misrepresented because they are couched with fine print. Some people want to ask some questions or debate? Harassment? Get real!
 
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erg923 said:
Oh, come on. He/she has a public website with a contact address and is advertising services that are largely (seemingly) misleading and or misrepresented because they are couched with fine print. Some people want to ask some questions or debate? Harassment? Get real!
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www.dictionary.com

Why No One Wants To Experience "Brigading"

"Brigading" is a slang term for an online practice of banding together to perform a coordinated action, especially a negative one. Learn more about it here.
www.dictionary.com www.dictionary.com
 
No need to cause a ruckus over me! When I said I was tempted, I was being facetious. Still, the question is raised of when individual reporting is no longer effective and organized groups need to take a stand on these things.
 
I got stuck on this early bit of the article: "Question four was particularly weak: ‘Did you often, or very often, feel that no one in your family loved you or thought you were important or special – or [that] your family didn’t look out for each other, feel close to each other, or support each other?’ Surely this is describing the majority of the planet?"

....Surely this is describing the majority of the planet?

I can't be the only one who did a double take and thought the author might have a tiny bit of a chip on the shoulder, yeah?
 
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futureapppsy2 said:
Re: the second part—in my experience, FWIW, people tend to assume a lot of autistic self-advocates are more high functioning than they actually are. Like, I think there’s a jump to assume that everyone who can communicate is the Aspie “quirky” stereotype but a lot of these people have pretty significant sensory issues, restrictive-repetitive behavior, etc, issues and would probably be seen as at least moderately severely autistic if you saw them in clinic. Of course, that doesn’t capture people at the furthest end of the severity spectrum, and I don’t know if there’s a good way to. Of course, you have parent/caregiver report, which can help, but that’s still a proxy report with all the limitations inherent in that, and, let’s be real, parents of disabled children don’t always have their kids’ best interests at heart (they often do, but the subset that don’t often really, really don’t).

I actually think this is a cross-disability issue—that less severely disabled people tend to have louder voices in the dialogue, especially if they are white, from wealthy families, and conventionally attractive, and their perspectives get listened to more, even if they aren’t necessarily representative. It’s one of the reasons that some of my colleagues who do a lot of developmental disability-focused work deliberately go out of their way to include more severely autistic people, people with ID, disabled BIPOC, etc, on their research teams, even though it often creates more work for them in terms of accommodations, pay, hiring, etc.
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YES and YES. the (significant!!) number of people who are severely affected have no voice at the table. And their caregivers /family are too damn tired to be the loudest yellers in the crowd. People spend way more decades of their life as adults than they do as children. There are MANY people with ID and/or ASD who need VERY substantial support. Yet it is frankly absolutely impossible to create any new facilities that house more than 5 individuals on a grounds. You can't even have a cluster of group homes together on the same property where I am because that's not sufficiently integrated. You know what that means? Medicaid payments are entirely insufficient for the sometimes 1:1 or at least 2:1 ratio needed on average. How you going to be able to pay for psychiatry, psychology, nutrition, on-call nursing, OT, etc. for very complex folks?

In my neck of the woods, the remaining facilities that do house 10 or more individuals - even if htey are in separate houses on the same grounds- are being phased out in the coming years, but the state has not made any substantial increase in funding. Those with complex IDD/mental + healthcare needs (especially those who are approaching the geriatric years) are just going to end up taking up spaces in the psychiatric beds and over-medicated because they cannot be adequately supported in a group home with underpaid, under-trained, high-turnover staff that is a natural consequence of getting paid little for a high-stress job with insufficient support. We've already seen it happen in other states- but these cases don't make headlines, because again, you've got to have a voice at the table to start with.
 
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Seriously, that sub is an intellectual blackhole. The concentration of willfully ignorant and/or misinformed "providers" is simply astounding, though sadly, mirrors what I see in general clinical practice in MH. It's unfortunate that this is what patients are going to when they need legitimate help.
 
WisNeuro said:
Seriously, that sub is an intellectual blackhole. The concentration of willfully ignorant and/or misinformed "providers" is simply astounding, though sadly, mirrors what I see in general clinical practice in MH. It's unfortunate that this is what patients are going to when they need legitimate help.
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Part of me knows that I should stop worrying/caring about this kind of stuff on the Internet. However, we are well into the Internet era at this point. For better or for worse, sites like Reddit, TikTok, and Instagram are where the majority of patients are going to encounter most of the mental-health-related information they encounter on the web--and in the soundbite world in which we are living, everyone thinks they're an expert in something after getting the tiniest, most contextless bits of information imaginable.

This is the sword by which we are going to die unless we figure out how best to navigate it. I don't know what the answer is. I don't know if we should try to reform the training system to be rigorous and devoted to science literacy, or create our own spaces for disseminating good information on the same channels wherein misinformation reigns supreme, or any other feasible option. I don't know, but I do know that it really bothers me to see this kind of stuff being pushed around by credentialed people who clients trust to give them accurate information, and to know that the science I love is not being respected.

Maybe that's a little melodramatic, but it's Monday and I have an earache, so sue me haha
 
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cara susanna said:
Oh man, someone should link articles about posttraumatic growth and blow their minds (not gonna be me though, lol)
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For most of those people, there isn't much mind to be blown. Kind of the problem with declining scientific literacy and the continual lowering of the bar. Yes, MH care is more accessible than it's ever been, but access to competent MH care is still inaccessible to many.
 
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cara susanna said:
Oh man, someone should link articles about posttraumatic growth and blow their minds (not gonna be me though, lol)
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Apparently taking proton pump inhibitors and the presence of autoimmune conditions are “immediate red flags for trauma” because, as we all know, The Body Keeps the Score. Nope, sorry. Can’t even type this out sarcastically. But, for real—some posters were saying GERD and autoimmune conditions are trauma flags lmaooo
 
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PsychSupreme said:
Apparently taking proton pump inhibitors and the presence of autoimmune conditions are “immediate red flags for trauma” because, as we all know, _The Body Keeps the Score_. Nope, sorry. Can’t even type this out sarcastically. Been, for real—some posters were saying GERD and autoimmune conditions are trauma flags lmaooo
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Sounds like those cats are going full Mesmer...you never go full Mesmer, man...
 
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WisNeuro said:
For most of those people, there isn't much mind to be blown. Kind of the problem with declining scientific literacy and the continual lowering of the bar. Yes, MH care is more accessible than it's ever been, but access to competent MH care is still inaccessible to many.
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So what do you think the solution(s) is/are?
 
clausewitz2 said:
www.dictionary.com

Why No One Wants To Experience "Brigading"

"Brigading" is a slang term for an online practice of banding together to perform a coordinated action, especially a negative one. Learn more about it here.
www.dictionary.com www.dictionary.com
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Why should I care what they "want?" It's a publicly advertised business. You get what you get based on what you put out there.

That said, yes of course we should all move on and stop perseverating. And, stop doing most all "the socials".... in my opinion. But formally banning this response seems silly when its all in the public domain.
 
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first I've heard of trauma informed yoga....and I agree, those reddit and fb groups are bonkers. I joined a "chatGPT for psychologists" fb group, and part curiosity/part market research I paid $9.99 for their first ebook guide to chatgpt. I'm pretty sure the "book" was written by AI. It was pretty much useless.
 

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calimich said:
first I've heard of trauma informed yoga....and I agree, those reddit and fb groups are bonkers. I joined a "chatGPT for psychologists" fb group, and part curiosity/part market research I paid $9.99 for their first ebook guide to chatgpt. I'm pretty sure the "book" was written by AI. It was pretty much useless.
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Just like politics is show business for ugly people...

The horror...the horror...
 
Fan_of_Meehl said:
Just like politics is show business for ugly people...

The horror...the horror...
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We finally did the double feature of Top Gun and Top Gun-Maverick with the kids last night. Have to say, Tom Cruise smiles way too much in Top Gun for the topics at hand in that story. That's all I have to say at this time....
 
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erg923 said:
We finally did the double feature of Top Gun and Top Gun-Maverick with the kids last night. Have to say, Tom Cruise smiles way too much in Top Gun for the topics at hand in that story. That's all I have to say at this time....
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I like the theory that Top Gun 2 is Maverick's coma dream

Also, I maintain that Maverick would have been medically discharged for a personality disorder a long time ago.
 
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PsychSupreme said:
Sorry to revive a dying thread, but here's a good (admittedly anecdotal) sampling of the kind of whacky stuff the trauma cult is pushing right now.
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I love this response, though:

"
Interestingly, I feel that the original definition of trauma was created to distinguish typical adverse life events that one would expect to be part of a healthy life from atypical events of a greater magnitude that significantly shape how we see the world and are paradigm-breaking. (E.g., a life devoid of conflict and arguments would be worse than one with fights with friends; one expects and sees as normal or even preferable having some mildly sad events as part of life, such as breaking an arm climbing a tree, or breaking up with a boyfriend/girlfriend)

Now, trauma seems a synonym for any even mildly adverse or upsetting situation. I wonder if the trend is against making distinction eg between things like (1) near death experiences, sexual assault, domestic violence and physical abuse and (2) breaking an arm, failing a class, arguing with a friend - or whether we just really need a new name for (1) to distinguish it that is different from trauma (many now colloquially say “capital T trauma”).

It’s an interesting linguistic shift where I think because trauma used to refer to (1) people felt it was taken more seriously — and started to use it for more and more of (2) when wanting to say “hey! Please take me seriously”. Now it refers to both. Any term used to refer to the more serious version will probably be co-opted slowly over time to refer to all negative or upsetting events or circumstances, since that is seen as a way to get more help/resources/sympathy (not saying as a negative thing, but neutral observation)"
 
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futureapppsy2 said:
I love this response, though:

"
Interestingly, I feel that the original definition of trauma was created to distinguish typical adverse life events that one would expect to be part of a healthy life from atypical events of a greater magnitude that significantly shape how we see the world and are paradigm-breaking. (E.g., a life devoid of conflict and arguments would be worse than one with fights with friends; one expects and sees as normal or even preferable having some mildly sad events as part of life, such as breaking an arm climbing a tree, or breaking up with a boyfriend/girlfriend)

Now, trauma seems a synonym for any even mildly adverse or upsetting situation. I wonder if the trend is against making distinction eg between things like (1) near death experiences, sexual assault, domestic violence and physical abuse and (2) breaking an arm, failing a class, arguing with a friend - or whether we just really need a new name for (1) to distinguish it that is different from trauma (many now colloquially say “capital T trauma”).

It’s an interesting linguistic shift where I think because trauma used to refer to (1) people felt it was taken more seriously — and started to use it for more and more of (2) when wanting to say “hey! Please take me seriously”. Now it refers to both. Any term used to refer to the more serious version will probably be co-opted slowly over time to refer to all negative or upsetting events or circumstances, since that is seen as a way to get more help/resources/sympathy (not saying as a negative thing, but neutral observation)"
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Wow, I missed that response and it is very well said. IMO the solution isn't to expand the term trauma, the solution is to get society to take other types of negative events more seriously.
 
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Shiori said:
www.nytimes.com

A Novel Therapy, Using Writing, Shows Promise for PTSD

A study of veterans with PTSD found that 30-minute supervised writing sessions were as effective as traditional talk therapy.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com

WET made the NYT.
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I don't have them in front of me, but didn't WET get a weaker recommendation in the recent VA/DoD treatment guidelines than CPT/PE? Or did it actually get relegated to the "neither for or against" category.
 
AcronymAllergy said:
I don't have them in front of me, but didn't WET get a weaker recommendation in the recent VA/DoD treatment guidelines than CPT/PE? Or did it actually get relegated to the "neither for or against" category.
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It's "weak for" because they looked at evidence for WET on its own versus lumping it in with exposure more generally. I attended a presentation by someone who was very involved in developing the psychotherapy guidelines and she said she thinks WET will get to the top category someday. When I explain it to patients I just say that WET is newer so it has less research behind it than other therapies, but the research we have thus far is very promising.
 
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cara susanna said:
It's "weak for" because they looked at evidence for WET on its own versus lumping it in with exposure more generally. I attended a presentation by someone who was very involved in developing the psychotherapy guidelines and she said she thinks WET will get to the top category someday.
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Jerry Fodor once said he was going to be impressed with cognitive science and psychology when it could tell him something about people that his grandmother couldn't have. This therapy, described at a high level, sounds like you are simply trolling someone. The fact that it has any significant evidence that it works might well have done the trick for him.
 
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clausewitz2 said:
Jerry Fodor once said he was going to be impressed with cognitive science and psychology when it could tell him something about people that his grandmother couldn't have. This therapy, described at a high level, sounds like you are simply trolling someone. The fact that it has any significant evidence that it works might well have done the trick for him.
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Oh yeah, I admit that I was skeptical about WET, but my first case (who was new to trauma therapy, by the way) saw significant improvements.
 
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Oh, he has been this way for decades. I had no idea.
 
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WisNeuro said:
Just goes to show you, people want to be deceived. BvdK has been outed as a snakeoil salesman for a long time, but is still widely lauded as a "luminary."
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The funny thing about this video is that he offers literally nothing but anecdote. “Oh it’s often observed in therapy that…” or “It is sometimes the case that memories don’t arise until the person undergoes something which reminds them of it.” Like damn, you mean memory cues? Or maybe false memory suggested not by a therapist but by environmental cues? Geez…thanks, Doc, for citing literally no scientific evidence for your position and citing scenarios which are just as easily explained by confabulation as by recovery of repressed memories. Smh
 
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PsychSupreme said:
The funny thing about this video is that he offers literally nothing but anecdote. “Oh it’s often observed in therapy that…” or “It is sometimes the case that memories don’t arise until the person undergoes something which reminds them of it..” Like damn, you mean memory cues? Or maybe false memory suggested not by a therapist but by environmental cues? Geez…thanks, Doc, for citing literally no scientific evidence for your position and citing scenarios which are just as easily explained by confabulation as by recovery of repressed memories. Smh
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Persuasion & Healing

Mesmer & Wands

Snake & Oil

Has always 'worked.'

Always 'will.'
 
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People act like trauma is some mystical thing and PTSD is inevitable rather than an (actually uncommon) failure in the body's natural process to recover. That's IMO the biggest part of the problem.
 
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cara susanna said:
People act like trauma is some mystical thing and PTSD is inevitable rather than an (actually uncommon) failure in the body's natural process to recover. That's IMO the biggest part of the problem.
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The problem with awareness is that everyone wants their five minutes of attention. Oh you have PTSD, my life is hard too, I must have PTSD. What I can't figure out in this ridiculous world is how working at a McDonalds does not automatically quality one for disabling PTSD after 6 months...I mean it is way more traumatizing than anything that get a trigger warning in a college class.
 
And conflation of every negative experience with trauma. If everything is trauma and trauma always causes PTSD, then everyone has PTSD.
 
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