How to diplomatically tell one of my friends they have no chance at med school.....

[Glazedonutlove]

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[Mad Jack]

If she does okay on the MCAT, she could definitely get a DO acceptance. And if she were to complete a SMP, she would be competitive for MD school (with a good MCAT, of course). OP, you sound like kind of a sucky friend tbh

 

[Mad Jack]

is the .2 person really small?

Could've been a ginger, I think without a soul you only count as .2 people.

 

[gonnif]

I usually do something like this

 

[edgerock24]

One of my friends really wants to become a doctor, but I don't think she has a chance (ORM, 3.2ish GPA in her junior year at a low ranked university, little to no ECs).

She comes from a low SES (and for some reason her family refuses to apply for gov't aid. Real shady, I know.), so she doesn't have much option to push back applying for 2 years, which I assume would be how long she would need to get an app together.

I just don't want her to waste her money on MCAT stuff (books, classes, tests).
I don't mean to come off condescending, but nobody I know has been able to give me a good answer haha.

Worry more about yourself. And like others have said: mind your own business.

Side note: the only people who can get away with ending their sentences with "haha" are 15 year old girls.

Be better.

 

[EEtoPre-Med]

I am going to again disagree with a lot of this board. While the manner in which such information is presented is important, of course, it is probably a good idea for the OP to inform her friend that she has a lot of work to do. Sometimes it's risky telling your friends the truth about something they care about, but it is also one of the most loving things you can do. Many of you who are questioning the OP's medical potential, also worry me as doctors. It isn't caring to tell a patient that they will live many more years because there is a .01 % chance of it. You have to advise them that they are a long shot, so they should make end of life preparations (will, property,etc.) but that it is not time to quit fighting or give up hope. Real friends tell the truth.

Now, to the subject at hand, wait until she brings up medical school admissions or it comes up in conversation. When it does, ask her how she feels like her preparation is coming? If she seems open to advice (asking about MCAT materials, applying dates, etc.) give

 

[Glazedonutlove]

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[EEtoPre-Med]

How do you justify making the connection to a dying patient?! Like others have said, the friend does have a chance at do school. Encouragement is fine but op is not an adcom and has no right to tell others they have no chance at med schools

I wasn't the one who made the connection to medicine, everyone else was doing that to the OP. All I did was argue that that argument also had implications for people who refuse to inform others of their misfortune under the guise of "care". Agreed, no chance is probably not their place, but the response overwhelmingly was "don't say anything at all, it's none of your business". My friends tell me when I am a longshot, or when I need to improve at something. That's friendship. I think we agree here, but I was merely critiquing the idea that "say nothing" was what friends should do.

 

[getdown]

That's not a doctor like quality.... You need to show support and motivation, and promote change.

No. Sometimes being a doctor you need to be forthright and harsh with some of your patients. All too often we coddle our patients because of the stupid "patient satisfaction" matrix built into the system by idiot hospital administrators. Despite what the common party line these days say, you do know better than them. Obviously work with them in their decision but immediately acquiescing to their every whim and want is not just stupid but a huge waste and strain on the system.

OP as a doctor: You have an A1C of 11. You have no chance of getting to 6.5 (# recommended by the ADA) given your past history. You will likely die early of a diabetic complication. It's better to accept this rather than live in denial.

How OP should be: Your A1C is 11. It's going to be a challenge and you may not ever get it low enough to completely eliminate your risk of complications due to diabetes, but here's some things that you can do to lower that number and decrease (not eliminate) your risk of diabetic complications...

I understand the point you're trying to make. But if we're talking about "no hope" examples I would use a trauma patient in the ICU who is brain dead and will require a trach and PEG to continue living and a family that refuses to understand the situation. In that particular case you should NOT be telling them that their loved one is going to return to normal at some point and that the ethical thing to do is to do comfort care. And for these situations it's often best to be as blunt and honest as possible since they'll pick up and hang on every little doubt you present.

 

[xffan624]

No. Sometimes being a doctor you need to be forthright and harsh with some of your patients. All too often we coddle our patients because of the stupid "patient satisfaction" matrix built into the system by idiot hospital administrators. Despite what the common party line these days say, you do know better than them. Obviously work with them in their decision but immediately acquiescing to their every whim and want is not just stupid but a huge waste and strain on the system.



I understand the point you're trying to make. But if we're talking about "no hope" examples I would use a trauma patient in the ICU who is brain dead and will require a trach and PEG to continue living and a family that refuses to understand the situation. In that particular case you should NOT be telling them that their loved one is going to return to normal at some point and that the ethical thing to do is to do comfort care. And for these situations it's often best to be as blunt and honest as possible since they'll pick up and hang on every little doubt you present.

I think we can all agree that based on OP's example that the person they're trying to counsel is not without hope, only needs to readjust their expectations, effort, and activities. They are not metaphorically brain dead in their medical school dreams.

 

[getdown]

I think we can all agree that based on OP's example that the person they're trying to counsel is not without hope, only needs to readjust their expectations, effort, and activities. They are not metaphorically brain dead in their medical school dreams.

Yeah I know. I wasn't addressing the OP in my example. I was talking about an actual example where a difficult conversation has to be made and not skirted around.

 

[banthapug]

I agree with the sentiment that it is none of OP's business to tell their friend. Several people made a parallel to dealing with a patient, but that's a totally different story. Patients come to doctors asking for help. Even then they can be non compliant. This friend of OP's didn't ask OP for advice- from all we know OP just wants to give her unsolicited advice. If the friend did ask for advice I think OP can tell her it might be extremely difficult. But usually unsolicited advice is seldom lay welcomed.

 

[mehc012]

One of my friends really wants to become a doctor, but I don't think she has a chance (ORM, 3.2ish GPA in her junior year at a low ranked university, little to no ECs).

She comes from a low SES (and for some reason her family refuses to apply for gov't aid. Real shady, I know.), so she doesn't have much option to push back applying for 2 years, which I assume would be how long she would need to get an app together.

I just don't want her to waste her money on MCAT stuff (books, classes, tests).
I don't mean to come off condescending, but nobody I know has been able to give me a good answer haha.

Wow, you make a lot of assumptions. How about you don't tell her anything because you are too black and white with too little justification.

First of all, why are you judging her family or wanting to struggle through on their own? How is that at all shady? If you don't want to come across as condescending, you should try...not being condescending.
Second, you can totally take gap years if you are low SES. It's more work, but doable.

For the record, I graduated with <3.2, no ECs, ORM, and hadn't even taken all of the prereqs. Low SES background. Now, 2.5 years later, I'm anxiously awaiting the 15th to see if my early interviews pan out.

How about you try talking to your friend about making a realistic plan, discuss what she needs to add to her app to succeed and how to pull it off in a few gap years while supporting herself, and let HER decide what she wants to try and draw her own conclusions about what is too much effort or risk? That would be much more helpful as her friend.

 

[cantankerous]

This thread went way further than I expected.

Maybe you shouldn't be such a pretentious **** friend? Who are you to say she has no chance? She was a 3.2 not a 2.2, she could be competitive for DO school if she had some guidance instead of some "friend" calling her shady and coming from a "low ranked university".

I'm coming from a very low ranked university and I have an interview invite at a top 10 school right now - so clearly that isn't all that important.

Chill man. We go to the same university. I only pointed that out since there's a few users here who believe that 3.2 is decent for a top school lmao.

As for being disadvantaged, I'm not sure she'll ever bring up being from low SES because that would force her to put out her family's financial information, which they refuse to do.

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I was being harsh;I just laid out only the negatives because I figured the usual cynicism of the board would ignore any positives I have to say about her.
Honestly, I'm just afraid of the possibility that she'll come out of undergrad with a useless B.S. degree and not much prospects for a life forward.
(Before you bring up research either academic or industry, she refuses to work in a lab)

It is none of my business, I guess.... but there's a good chance that she won't even follow through with an improvement plan, given my past experiences with her.
I don't know what I could do to support her other than to turn her in a direction that I think may be more feasible.

She's a great person. All I want is for her to be happy.

 

[Glazedonutlove]

This thread went way further than I expected.


Chill man. We go to the same university. I only pointed that out since there's a few users here who believe that 3.2 is decent for a top school lmao.

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I was being harsh;I just laid out only the negatives because I figured the usual cynicism of the board would ignore any positives I have to say about her.
Honestly, I'm just afraid of the possibility that she'll come out of undergrad with a useless B.S. degree and not much prospects for a life forward.
(Before you bring up research either academic or industry, she refuses to work in a lab)

It is none of my business, I guess.... but there's a good chance that she won't even follow through with an improvement plan, given my past experiences with her.
I don't know what I could do to support her other than to turn her in a direction that I think may be more feasible.

She's a great person. All I want is for her to be happy.

dude it's her life... leave her alone
I totally support encouraging her to improve her app but it's not for you to decide these things. worry about your own app cycle.

 

[wavvvvvves123]

telling a college junior with a 3.2 GPA and no MCAT score that they have no chance at getting into a medical school is really not what a good friend does at all.

 

[StudyLater]

SDN we crush dreams every 2 threads ..

This needs to be the new logo.

 

[Holmwood]

This needs to be the new logo.

T-shirts anyone? : D

 

[thepoopologist]

One of my friends really wants to become a doctor, but I don't think she has a chance (ORM, 3.2ish GPA in her junior year at a low ranked university, little to no ECs).

She comes from a low SES (and for some reason her family refuses to apply for gov't aid. Real shady, I know.), so she doesn't have much option to push back applying for 2 years, which I assume would be how long she would need to get an app together.

I just don't want her to waste her money on MCAT stuff (books, classes, tests).
I don't mean to come off condescending, but nobody I know has been able to give me a good answer haha.

What about letting the admissions committees crush her dreams instead. Let it come from the horse's mouth if it's really not meant to be.

 

[DrDarce]

OP just send her to SDN. I remember being premed and coming here.. after reading a few threads I thought I had ZERO chance! So if you really want to discourage your friend that bad, send em here..

 

[SnakeDoc9497]

OP, what does it matter if she's low SES? You can crush your MCAT without fancy expensive classes, you know... and a 3.2 will definitely not keep you out of DO if you have a good story.

I'm not even sure they are limited to just DO...there are plenty of MD schools who would be happy to have her if she
A. Writes a killer PS
B. Steps up EC's
C. Kills the MCAT

Of course, all that is easier said than done but you get my point. OP, I encourage you to encourage your friend to keep at it. And as someone else suggested, do your best to help her salvage this, not find a way out.

 

[SnakeDoc9497]

I'm also not even sure how much I agree with this thread... How do I "diplomatically" tell one of my friends they "have no chance" at med school.

No matter how you flower it up, don't say this to anyone ever. Let them trip and fall and get up again. Just be there for them to support not discourage.

There's nothing diplomatic about asking someone to bow out. Diplomacy would be allowing yourself to suffer a bit so this person could gain and get back on their feet

 

[ObakeMe]

OP many people have gotten in to medical school with a lower GPA than a 3.2. Of course, they redeemed themselves by doing well as a post-bacc student and by receiving a high score on the MCAT exam. Would you be upset if this individual got into medical school? Is there something else going on? Maybe jealousy if your friend got in?

 

[mehc012]

I'm not even sure they are limited to just DO...there are plenty of MD schools who would be happy to have her if she
A. Writes a killer PS
B. Steps up EC's
C. Kills the MCAT

Of course, all that is easier said than done but you get my point. OP, I encourage you to encourage your friend to keep at it. And as someone else suggested, do your best to help her salvage this, not find a way out.

Exactly...the majority of the descriptors given in the OP apply to me as well, yet my MD cycle is shaping up quite well so far!

 

[Jalby]

One of my friends really wants to become a doctor, but I don't think she has a chance (ORM, 3.2ish GPA in her junior year at a low ranked university, little to no ECs).

She comes from a low SES (and for some reason her family refuses to apply for gov't aid. Real shady, I know.), so she doesn't have much option to push back applying for 2 years, which I assume would be how long she would need to get an app together.

I just don't want her to waste her money on MCAT stuff (books, classes, tests).
I don't mean to come off condescending, but nobody I know has been able to give me a good answer haha.

Send me her e-mail. I will forward her this thread.

 

[SnakeDoc9497]

Exactly...the majority of the descriptors given in the OP apply to me as well, yet my MD cycle is shaping up quite well so far!

That is awesome! Good to hear for you

 

[theriomorphos]

One of my friends really wants to become a doctor, but I don't think she has a chance (ORM, 3.2ish GPA in her junior year at a low ranked university, little to no ECs).

She comes from a low SES (and for some reason her family refuses to apply for gov't aid. Real shady, I know.), so she doesn't have much option to push back applying for 2 years, which I assume would be how long she would need to get an app together.

I just don't want her to waste her money on MCAT stuff (books, classes, tests).
I don't mean to come off condescending, but nobody I know has been able to give me a good answer haha.

Lol! This thread's appeal is a cantankerous person starting it. Live and let live my friend.

 

[getdown]

What about letting the admissions committees crush her dreams instead. Let it come from the horse's mouth if it's really not meant to be.

Cause it's expensive to find out that way

 

[deliciouscookies]

Make sure your friend has a back up plan for if medicine doesn't work out!

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

Lol, even @Jalby had something to say about this thread.

 

[DoctorDrewOutsidetheLines]

Any friend who doesn't support another's dreams and ambitions is NOT a true friend. OP you need to reevaluate what's really behind your negative perception of your friend's potential for success. Is it because she's low SES? Why do you think she doesn't deserve a shot and that once fully informed she won't perform? Help her out or STFU. With friends like you, who needs enemies?

 

[moisne]

OP is definitely ridiculous bc those stats are low but not impossible for MD and fairly normal for DO - but I don't think it constitutes the amount of bashing OP got.

I think OP got the idea.

 

[futuredrummerdoctor]

.. I somehow stumbled upon this post while searching for a question regarding grade replacement and although I'm not one to spread negativity for no reason, I feel so strongly about this post that, yes, I'm bumping a year-old post. I really think that people like you are what's wrong with the entire medical community. Yes, you might get into medical school, but what personality do you have to show for it? What kind of friend would even CONSIDER demoralizing someone they care about like that? Your friend could very easily retake classes, study really hard for the MCAT, and then focus on bolstering her extracurriculars and making connections. What a GOOD friend would do is alert her to the reality of medical school, let her know she has a good shot at osteopathic medicine, and push her to study really, really hard. Apparently you're pre-med too (which is terrifying), so you could have offered to study with her or given her tips on how to do well on the MCAT. If it were me, I would have bought her an MCAT book for christmas and said "go nuts dude. Study your BUTT off." I really hope this was the last time you ever considered tearing someone down like that. Besides, she comes from a low SES, which will only help her in terms of her application story. Why are you so cocky? Whatever happened to "first, do no harm?"

 

[WedgeDawg]

Whatever happened to "first, do no harm?"

This is the question I ask myself when people bump old threads. This discussion has been over for nearly a year and a half now. Regardless how strongly you feel about the content of this post, do you really think that your reply is going to engender constructive conversation or add anything unique to this thread? OP has already been on the receiving end of SDN ire from other members of this thread; there is really no need to add on more this far in the future. Locking.