How to get into a BS/MD?

[ComputerGuy365]

Hello, I am a freshman in high school and I am thinking about taking the BS/MD route. I'm not sure if I am capable of getting in. Any tips to get in?

GPA currently ~3.49, NY resident. GPA probably will not change much this semester.

I plan to work my ass off sophomore year to get that GPA up.
Gonna study a lot for SAT/ACT as well.

I am also working out a situation where I will try to shadow some doctors, as well as volunteer at my local hospital next year (My school requires community service)

Current EC's:
1 Year of Choir
~30 hours helping kids with special needs
Started Cubing Club

Sophomore Year Goals:
Become a life guard
Volunteer 100+ hours at hospital
Shadow for 30+ hours

Coming up with potential list of programs:
Boston U
Drexel
Temple
Northwestern
Brooklyn College
Rutgers
U Conn
U Roch
Thanks,

Zach

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[moisne]

Hello, I am a freshman in high school and I am thinking about taking the BS/MD route. I'm not sure if I am capable of getting in. Any tips to get in?

GPA currently ~3.49, NY resident. GPA probably will not change much this semester.

I plan to work my ass off sophomore year to get that GPA up.
Gonna study a lot for SAT/ACT as well.

I am also working out a situation where I will try to shadow some doctors, as well as volunteer at my local hospital next year (My school requires community service)

Coming up with potential list of programs:
Boston U
Drexel
Temple
Northwestern
Brooklyn College
Rutgers
U Conn
U Roch
Thanks,

Zach

Hey,
Sorry to disappoint but you probably won't get into BS/MD...
The combined degree is super super hard to get into - way harder than the traditional route. People who get in are exceptional. 3.49 in middle school/highschool is hardly competitive. Most have near perfect grades plus demonstrate high potentials.

 

[ComputerGuy365]

I understand that I need to improve my grades.
What you just said is more than likely correct.
Most of the programs have a 3.7/3.8 requirement.
I know it won't be easy, but I have a whole 2 years to improve my grades.
And also,
Just curious, Would I have a shot at BS/DO?

 

[ComputerGuy365]

bump

 

[Chemistry>Physics]

Don't go BS/MD

Apply to in state school, get a good MCAT score, and get a higher GPA in college.

Also dont post your name because this site is supposed to be anonymous. And don't go to osteopathic school when you haven't even tried for an allo. That's just silly. No person who can get into a bs/do school should attend one. I have yet to hear a coherent argument against this.

 

[DrHart]

I agree. Also, give yourself another couple years. Aside from your "sophomore year goals," what is it that is pulling you toward a career in medicine? BS/MD program is a serious commitment. And it also limits your options.
Work hard in high school and see if you find a passion for something. When its time to apply to schools, do so knowing that your interests may change, and your grades may as well. College isn't like high school. Even getting a 4.5 gpa in high school won't mean you'll know how to handle college.

 

[ComputerGuy365]

Thanks. Really appreciate the advice. I'm pretty sure medicine is my route, I really like the hospital setting. I know it's a hard route, but it's about the journey, not the destination. As for what's pulling me towards medicine, I love science, every aspect.

 

[justindaman1141]

Dude, don't doubt yourself. You obviously have goals, and are ambitious enough to tackle them on. Really, tips from random people online can only help so much. Just go for what you want and feel in your gut. Plus, if you go along with your plan and decide not to go BS/MD, you'll have a great GPA and great stats as a result of working your ass off lol.

 

[ComputerGuy365]

Dude, don't doubt yourself. You obviously have goals, and are ambitious enough to tackle them on. Really, tips from random people online can only help so much. Just go for what you want and feel in your gut. Plus, if you go along with your plan and decide not to go BS/MD, you'll have a great GPA and great stats as a result of working your ass off lol.

Thanks lol.

 

[mcatjelly]

Dude, don't doubt yourself. You obviously have goals, and are ambitious enough to tackle them on. Really, tips from random people online can only help so much. Just go for what you want and feel in your gut. Plus, if you go along with your plan and decide not to go BS/MD, you'll have a great GPA and great stats as a result of working your ass off lol.

Dude, you're in 8th grade. Many of us are well into application process, and know people who've gone to medical school. There's a reason why most of us advise against the BS/MD route.

 

[uafootball27]

Hope you end up reading this. There's hope for you. Lots of time to work hard. I turned my life around this year and I'm going from 0 to competitive for these programs.
Fresh/Soph year weighted GPA was both 3.70. Junior year I'm rocking a 4.4 and a 33.25 (almost definitely will become 34) ACT superscored.

Work hard. Every time you open a book remember that going the extra chapter might mean the difference between you becoming a doctor or not. Work your ass off but be well rounded. Play sports but take honors and AP science courses. BS/MD is very convenient as it's guaranteed med school admission but the 4+4 traditional route is perfectly fine too.

If you can pull off high scores on SAT2s and SAT/ACT and get your next 3 years good grades, you can do it.

 

[justadream]

Thanks. Really appreciate the advice. I'm pretty sure medicine is my route, I really like the hospital setting. I know it's a hard route, but it's about the journey, not the destination. As for what's pulling me towards medicine, I love science, every aspect.

You might think so now but you don't really know what's out there.

Also, coming up with a list of potential programs makes no sense at this point because you don't even have a GPA/SAT/ACT.

 

[Dreamstoo]

You will need at least a 3.7+ and great ECs to have a chance at the Brooklyn program, Drexel program.

Northwestern is pretty unrealistic honestly. The only person I have heard of from my high school who got in back in the early 2000s had a 3.99 and a 1590 on the old SAT along with impressive medically related ECs. It's also probably the most prestigious program in the whole country. That or Rice/Baylor (in my opinion).

BU, you need a 3.8+/2250+ (on the 2400) scale.

You will need great ECs for all the programs.
Drexel and Temple for the most part were 3.7+/2150-2200 and you could have a chance.
I know someone who got into Brooklyn with a 3.7/~2100 about 4-5 years ago. They don't tend to have an inner city bias.
If you live in NYC, definitely think about the Sophie Davis program. They tend to favor inner city kids over other people in the surrounding suburbs. I think it's a 7 year program now? It used to be a 5 or 6 year program for a very long time. Not sure if they have changed it.

U Rochester is very difficult to get into too. I wouldn't say as hard as BU but close.

I would also add the RPI/AMC program. I remember receiving a secondary and even though I was rejected with below par stats but with great ECs (~3.5 GPA, below ,
I remember Union/AMC is also offered and Sienna/AMC.

AMC = Albany Medical College.

The Penn State/Jefferson program also comes to mind. I'm not sure how competitive it is but I do know it exists. I think it's a 7-8 year program with similar requirements to Drexel. Complete a certain amount of credits, maintain a 3.5 and score around what a 30 was on the old MCAT for the new MCAT. Although I have never met a NY resident who has attended this program.

 

[PleaseCallMeDoc]

Coming from a kid that applied to only 1 BS/ MD, got interviewed and was rejected, and now currently sitting on an acceptance to an accelerated early assurance program, I would advise you stay away from BS/MD unless you are 1) sure on the profession (how sure can you be if you haven't volunteered in a health care setting yet?) and 2) have thoroughly went through the program requirements and the undergraduate institution

I have 2 of my best friends in these programs and I must say that you do lock yourself out of many of opportunities. You sign agreements that you must stick at your school or forfeit your acceptance, you take a bunch of challenging classes (like taught by the med school in your freshman year hard) that may get you kicked out of the program and kill your dreams of attending an MD school, and you may not be happy! Also, you probably will be paying a lot of money as some of these schools offer less financial aid knowing that you will attend even without the $$.

Your application is very weak at the moment, as well. Bump that GPA, get those experiences, and look for good letters of recommendation writers if you are even considering BS/MD. My recommendation would be to do well in HS, build good study skills, rock your SATs or ACTs, get a nice scholarship to a school you would like to attend, have some fun, and apply early assurance / regular cycle. As a NY resident, have you looked into SUNY Upstate's Early Assurance Program? Have you looked at the amazing institutions that you could lock yourself out of if you attended a BS/MD program (Columbia, Rochester, NYU, to name a few). Have you even thought about saving money by attending a SUNY school, rocking your classes, and going into med school loan-free?

You have a long time and a long road ahead of you. Lots can change between now and when you apply to college, but please do understand that there is no rush to become a doctor. There will always be a need for physicians, but there aren't too many second chances when you apply to these programs.

 

[ComputerGuy365]

I'll probably just stick to a regular college then.

 

[efle]

I'll probably just stick to a regular college then.

Do this. BS/MD is for a special population that is so certain of their interest in medicine, they'd rather go to a decent school with a pre-acceptance, than to a Top 20 (or in many cases HYPSM). For someone without absolute certainty of their interest in MD, and/or little evidence they'd be Top 20 bound, BS/MD should not even be on the radar.

 

[Shreyasthegreat]

BS/MD is definitely a route you want to be certain about medicine for, but even if you aren't, it's not a bad idea to work on your application hard. Not only will it help for applying to other competitive colleges, but if you do realize medicine is definitely what you want to do, sometime later in highschool, then you will be prepared.

I'm currently in a BS/MD program and was accepted to 3 out of the 4 I applied to. I was rejected from Brown PLME, however did make it into URochester REMS, NJMS program, and Albany Medical College program. I have listed other admissions decisions below for reference.

Small pointers if you do end up going this route: I found that numbers are important and they play a pretty big part in getting your foot in the door, but the acceptance will only come with solid essays, rec letters, and extracurricular activities (make sure you are REALLY into what you do, because when you have fun with them, you'll develop the quote-on-quote passion they're looking for--this will come out during interviews and essays).

My stats from when I applied:

• SAT I (breakdown): 2400
• SAT II: 800 Math II, 760 Physics
• Unweighted GPA (out of 4.0): 4.0
• Weighted GPA (A+ counted as 4.33): 4.29/4.33
  
• Rank: 1/361
• AP (junior year scores): Calculus BC (5), US History (5), Statistics (4), Physics C Mechanics (5), Chemistry (5)
• Senior Year Course Load: AP Biology, AP Environmental Science, AP Psychology, AP Macroeconomics, AP English Language and Composition, Theater Arts Oratory Honors
• Major Awards: National Merit Semi Finalist, if that counts
• Minor Awards: 3rd place at a regional Quizbowl Competition; 3rd place at another regional Quizbowl Competition; 5th place out of 72 at a State level Quizbowl Competition; qualified for the American Regions Mathematics League Competition by being a top 30 student in the Central Jersey Mathematics League (over 300 students all really good at math)

• Extracurriculars (place leadership in parenthesis):
  -Mathematics Team (Captain 11 &12);
  -Key Club (Editor and webmaster 10, vice president 11, president 12);
  -National Honor Society (president 12);
  -Quizbowl Team (Co-captain 12);
  -New Jersey Governor’s School in the Sciences (Co-authored a paper in Computational Neuroscience; Took classes in Neurobiology, Special Relativity, Biological Anthropology, and Organic Chemistry; Competitive program that sends applications to high schools throughout NJ and accepts the best 85 students from all of the top science students in the state);
  -Columbia Science Honors Program (12th only; classes in Number Theory and Particle Physics);
  -Shadowed a Pediatrician over the summer
• Volunteer/Community service: about 200 hours from volunteering at two hospitals and other various volunteering for clubs in school
• Teacher Recommendation: Calc Teacher ("best student in career" rec); Physics (didn’t get a chance to read, but I’m sure it was really good)
• Counselor Rec: Great, was really close with him
• Acceptances: University of Pennsylvania, Cornell University, Dartmouth University, Vanderbilt University, Rutgers (full ride), NJIT (full ride + 10k per year), University of Rochester 8 year REMS, RPI/AMC 7 year, TCNJ/NJMS 7 year.
• Waitlists: Harvard, Princeton, MIT
• Rejections: Brown PLME

 

[Gandyy]

I have graduated from college, but I interviewed at 2 of these BS/MD programs. I had a 99 percentile ACT score, 4.0 gpa, and tons of ECs. I dont think I was horrible at interviewing back then,
and my 4 other friends who were probably a lot better at interviewing had similar stats. Only 1 of us got in. Honestly I think these programs are a giant crapshoot.

 

[efle]

full ride + 10k per year

As in they covered tuition, housing, books&fees and then PAID you 10k per year? Full ride does not = full tuition, full ride already includes housing and misc costs.

 

[Shreyasthegreat]

As in they covered tuition, housing, books&fees and then PAID you 10k per year? Full ride does not = full tuition, full ride already includes housing and misc costs.

They covered everything except fees in the full ride, and offered 10k on top of that. So I guess 10k/year minus whatever miscellaneous expenses there are such as books, etc.

A lot of kids who were accepted to my school's program this year also received this offer from NJIT.

 

[KinesiologyNerd]

Don't go BS/MD

Apply to in state school, get a good MCAT score, and get a higher GPA in college.

Also dont post your name because this site is supposed to be anonymous. And don't go to osteopathic school when you haven't even tried for an allo. That's just silly. No person who can get into a bs/do school should attend one. I have yet to hear a coherent argument against this.

Yeah and if you don't get into an Ivy medical school you should reapply

 

[efle]

Yeah and if you don't get into an Ivy medical school you should reapply

Bad analogy. More like if youre an Ivy caliber applicant dont apply DO only. Yes, youll be essentially guarunteed an acceptance, but youre prematurely limiting your options down the road.

 

[efle]

They covered everything except fees in the full ride, and offered 10k on top of that. So I guess 10k/year minus whatever miscellaneous expenses there are such as books, etc.

A lot of kids who were accepted to my school's program this year also received this offer from NJIT.

Jesus, as if a full ride and guaranteed MD isn't enough, they'll even give you a huge budget for spending money. Quite the package

 

[KinesiologyNerd]

Bad analogy. More like if youre an Ivy caliber applicant dont apply DO only. Yes, youll be essentially guarunteed an acceptance, but youre prematurely limiting your options down the road.

Unless... like... ya know... that's what you want to do with your life. Some people don't care about the letters after their name. Some people don't want to do research and go into ophtho at MGH. Some people are genuinely interested in the DO philosophies and want to use OMM. Some people have family traditions in osteopathic medicine and are damn proud to follow that line. I know crazy right?

 

[efle]

Unless... like... ya know... that's what you want to do with your life. Some people don't care about the letters after their name. Some people don't want to do research and go into ophtho at MGH. Some people are genuinely interested in the DO philosophies and want to use OMM. Some people have family traditions in osteopathic medicine and are damn proud to follow that line. I know crazy right?

Surely you're joking? What you describe is an extreme minority. For a random high schooler interested in medicine and remotely capable of BS+Med, the wise choice is to maximize future options with MD, even if you have to go regular undergrad first. And if any of those reasons like family tradition or a love for the pseudoscientific aspects of DO applied here, then OP wouldn't be so uncertain and uninformed.

I can't wait to see what line of nonsense reasoning you apply next! And seriously, don't have such low self-esteem that you need to defend your reasons for DO so vehemently on these boards; for some it's a preference, for most it's the only option due to weak stats, and this is already well established on SDN.

 

[KinesiologyNerd]

And seriously, don't have such low self-esteem that you need to defend your reasons for DO so vehemently on these boards

I go to an MD school. Nice try though. The post I originally quoted said there is no coherent argument for choosing DO without taking a crack at MD. Obviously the people I reference are in a small minority, but that doesn't make their choice any less valid. I've never understood how the vast majority of posters on SDN can't wrap their head around this concept. Here watch this video:

 

[ComputerGuy365]

Surely you're joking? What you describe is an extreme minority. For a random high schooler interested in medicine and remotely capable of BS+Med, the wise choice is to maximize future options with MD, even if you have to go regular undergrad first. And if any of those reasons like family tradition or a love for the pseudoscientific aspects of DO applied here, then OP wouldn't be so uncertain and uninformed.

I can't wait to see what line of nonsense reasoning you apply next! And seriously, don't have such low self-esteem that you need to defend your reasons for DO so vehemently on these boards; for some it's a preference, for most it's the only option due to weak stats, and this is already well established on SDN.

As efle mentioned, why would you even go DO without trying for MD? Sure theres the small minority who like Osteopathic medicine better, but basically all the top ranked schools are MD, and it's easier to land into an allopathic residency. Not only that, but won't patients more highly regard you if your degree is from Harvard Medical School as opposed to some No Name DO school?

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

As someone who's going into med school in the fall after deliberating multiple pathways I sincerely don't recommend BS/MD.

Undergrad exists in this country as a method of not only obtaining education, but as a period that will change a lot of your perspective on things. Many people by their 3rd year will quit premed not only because of it being hard, but because it is a path that's incompatible with their interests or lives.

Better to always figure out whether you really want to be a doctor or really can enjoy the subjects that make up the foundation of medical education.

I know at least for me I was happy by the end of my 4th year knowing that I chose medicine over psych or neuroscience PhDs.

 

[ComputerGuy365]

As someone who's going into med school in the fall after deliberating multiple pathways I sincerely don't recommend BS/MD.

Undergrad exists in this country as a method of not only obtaining education, but as a period that will change a lot of your perspective on things. Many people by their 3rd year will quit premed not only because of it being hard, but because it is a path that's incompatible with their interests or lives.

Better to always figure out whether you really want to be a doctor or really can enjoy the subjects that make up the foundation of medical education.

I know at least for me I was happy by the end of my 4th year knowing that I chose medicine over psych or neuroscience PhDs.

Yep I've already given up on BS/MD. Good luck. Just wondering are you matriculating into MD or DO?

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Yep I've already given up on BS/MD. Good luck. Just wondering are you matriculating into MD or DO?

I'm matriculating to a DO program. KCU personally very sincerely impressed me in both what it offers and location.

 

[ComputerGuy365]

I'm matriculating to a DO program. KCU personally very sincerely impressed me in both what it offers and location.

good luck

 

[KinesiologyNerd]

As efle mentioned, why would you even go DO without trying for MD? Sure theres the small minority who like Osteopathic medicine better, but basically all the top ranked schools are MD, and it's easier to land into an allopathic residency. Not only that, but won't patients more highly regard you if your degree is from Harvard Medical School as opposed to some No Name DO school?

If you like osteopathic medicine better you're probably not going to do an allopathic residency. Yes, in a few fields where doctor shopping is a big thing I'm sure where a doctor went to school/residency matters. What matters way more, however, is how good you are at doctoring. There are also plenty of situation in which you don't get to choose your doctor.

I'm not saying you should go DO over MD. My point is that it's closed-minded to say you should never go DO without trying MD first. If it's what is right for you, it's what is right for me. This isn't a hard concept.

 

[efle]

I go to an MD school. Nice try though. The post I originally quoted said there is no coherent argument for choosing DO without taking a crack at MD. Obviously the people I reference are in a small minority, but that doesn't make their choice any less valid. I've never understood how the vast majority of posters on SDN can't wrap their head around this concept. Here watch this video:

Amend the question to make sense in the context of OP: there's no reason a high-achieving high schooler with little knowledge of MD vs DO should elect for BS/DO. If one of your extremely rare circumstances applied, he would know about DO and/or only be considering DO for tradition or the wonderful world of OMM rather than including it as a BS/MD afterthought. At least realize your original comparison is garbage - wanting to go MD instead of DO makes sense for most people capable of both outside of prestige reasons, and doesn't resemble the logic of throwing away an application cycle over one's ego.

 

[efle]

As efle mentioned, why would you even go DO without trying for MD? Sure theres the small minority who like Osteopathic medicine better, but basically all the top ranked schools are MD, and it's easier to land into an allopathic residency. Not only that, but won't patients more highly regard you if your degree is from Harvard Medical School as opposed to some No Name DO school?

The entire body of MD schools is above DO, with perhaps a few of the lowest MD schools overlapping with the highest DO schools. The thing which differentiates DO from MD is OMM and that's full of pseudoscientific nonsense - after all MD would adopt it too if it was all legitimate evidence-based medicine. It is MUCH easier to land residencies in selective specialties, or selective residencies within specialties, as an MD, to the point where many of the most competitive places outright refuse to consider DO applicants. There are very real non-egotistical reasons to prefer MD.

The last claim there is weak though - patients usually won't know and even more won't care where their doctors went to medical school. Plus layperson knowledge is essentially nil of medical school quality; there are places among the best that nobody has ever heard of (like Washington University in St. Louis) and others with famous Ivy League undergrad names that have only slightly above average med schools (like Brown and Dartmouth).

 

[Gandyy]

The entire body of MD schools is above DO, with perhaps a few of the lowest MD schools overlapping with the highest DO schools. The thing which differentiates DO from MD is OMM and that's full of pseudoscientific nonsense - after all MD would adopt it too if it was all legitimate evidence-based medicine. It is MUCH easier to land residencies in selective specialties, or selective residencies within specialties, as an MD, to the point where many of the most competitive places outright refuse to consider DO applicants. There are very real non-egotistical reasons to prefer MD.

The last claim there is weak though - patients usually won't know and even more won't care where their doctors went to medical school. Plus layperson knowledge is essentially nil of medical school quality; there are places among the best that nobody has ever heard of (like Washington University in St. Louis) and others with famous Ivy League undergrad names that have only slightly above average med schools (like Brown and Dartmouth).

If you look at match lists from top DO schools you see that you can also get any residency through top DO programs, but its just a lot harder and you have to jump through more hoops.

Reality of the situation is that go MD to make things easier on yourself, but both are fully practicing doctors with the same privileges and responsibilities.

 

[ComputerGuy365]

Clarity is also important.

Would you rather have John Smith M.D. or John Smith D.O.?

 

[efle]

If you look at match lists from top DO schools you see that you can also get any residency through top DO programs, but its just a lot harder and you have to jump through more hoops.

Reality of the situation is that go MD to make things easier on yourself, but both are fully practicing doctors with the same privileges and responsibilities.

You can't get any residency; some do not consider DO applicants. You can get any specialty, but it is much less accessible.

Clarity is also important.

Would you rather have John Smith M.D. or John Smith D.O.?

Most people will not know what DO is or how it stands in comparison to MD, PA, NP, etc. Most patients care MUCH more about whether they like their healthcare provider than what his/her training and pedigree is. Prestige matters for landing competitive residency spots, not for impressing your patients.

 

[Gandyy]

Clarity is also important.

Would you rather have John Smith M.D. or John Smith D.O.?

Please dont say anything like that in an interview. Thats an automatic turnoff to most people on these forums and adcoms. The main question that comes to mind when someone says this is "Do you care about being a physician or do you care about the initials after your name?"

 

[Gandyy]

You can't get any residency; some do not consider DO applicants. You can get any specialty, but it is much less accessible.



Most people will not know what DO is or how it stands in comparison to MD, PA, NP, etc. Most patients care MUCH more about whether they like their healthcare provider than what his/her training and pedigree is. Prestige matters for landing competitive residency spots, not for impressing your patients.

Yea I meant specialty, not residency, my bad.

 

[KinesiologyNerd]

Clarity is also important.

Would you rather have John Smith M.D. or John Smith D.O.?

My PCP and mentor are DOs. In your vast 13 years of life experience would you say I've made a mistake?

 

[Gandyy]

My PCP and mentor are DOs. In your vast 13 years of life experience would you say I've made a mistake?

Hes a freshman in high school so thats why I havent been as harsh about it as someone on the pre med forums.