How to get into SGU or Ross.

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Symmetry11

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I'm a year away from applying to medical schools and I am giving the most serious consideration to SGU and Ross, in that order. So former grads, how did you get in?! I understand GPA and MCAT are critical, but what kind of EC's do they want to see out of an applicant. And I fear I will choke during an interview so what are the stats to get direct admission for these schools?

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All you really need is a pulse and the ability to write a check.
 
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I'm a year away from applying to medical schools and I am giving the most serious consideration to SGU and Ross, in that order. So former grads, how did you get in?! I understand GPA and MCAT are critical, but what kind of EC's do they want to see out of an applicant. And I fear I will choke during an interview so what are the stats to get direct admission for these schools?

The following applies to SGU.

The interviews are very laid back, you usually interview with a physician that graduated from the school. There are no real curveballs to the process. You need a GPA > 2.5 and MCAT >21 or so. Other than that, as ewax said, pretty much a pulse and the ability to secure the loan money. ECs and letters don't matter at all.

Explore all of your options before coming down here. Make sure you've done everything you possibly can to get into a US school. It's a tough road and there is a high washout rate.
 
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The following applies to SGU.

The interviews are very laid back, you usually interview with a physician that graduated from the school. There are no real curveballs to the process. You need a GPA > 2.5 and MCAT >21 or so. Other than that, as ewax said, pretty much a pulse and the ability to secure the loan money. ECs and letters don't matter at all.

Explore all of your options before coming down here. Make sure you've done everything you possibly can to get into a US school. It's a tough road and there is a high washout rate.

Ben, I just looked at the past five year match rate for SGU and it looks really good. People have attained residencies in dermatology, neurosurgery,etc and other residencies at places like Johns Hopkins. All of that seems impressive for any school, but especially so from a Caribbean school. From day one how does one reach such heights? Is research essential? Connections?
 
Also what were your stats and EC's to get in?
 
Ben, I just looked at the past five year match rate for SGU and it looks really good. People have attained residencies in dermatology, neurosurgery,etc and other residencies at places like Johns Hopkins. All of that seems impressive for any school, but especially so from a Caribbean school. From day one how does one reach such heights? Is research essential? Connections?
Its a lot easier and a lot more likely to land a spot like that if you would take a year to build your CV and go to a US school.
 
Ben, I just looked at the past five year match rate for SGU and it looks really good. People have attained residencies in dermatology, neurosurgery,etc and other residencies at places like Johns Hopkins. All of that seems impressive for any school, but especially so from a Caribbean school. From day one how does one reach such heights? Is research essential? Connections?

Connections, yes. Research in your clinical years can be helpful if you've got the rest going for you (grades, Step scores, LoRs) but it will not save a languishing residency application. I think that there is a great deal wrong with how SGU reports their residency placements, and just looking for big-name places like Hopkins or competitive residencies like neurosurg isn't giving you the full picture. But that's neither here nor there, really. My point was that about 20% of each class washes out in the first two years without even getting to Step 1. Our incoming class sizes are approaching the 800's and 500's for Fall and Spring terms, respectively. That's a hell of a lot of broken dreams and a hell of a lot of debt.

You sound like you've already made up your mind about this, so I'm not going to waste my breath trying to convince you to reconsider unless you're legitimately interested in having that conversation (I know this because I did the same thing when I came to the Caribbean). Suffice it to say that the fate of Caribbean graduates is very much uncertain and virtually impossible to predict when your placement will be 4-5 years in the future. Everyone comes here thinking they're going to kick ass and be in the top 10% and that all you have to do is "work hard" and you can be anything you wanna be. And the school will feed you that line the whole way through, too. The reality is much different. The students down here are smart. You're probably not going to be a special and unique snowflake and you're probably going to be average.

The medical school application landscape is opening up in the US. There are lots of new schools eager to fill out classes and the upcoming changes to the MCAT may allow for improved scores for lots of applicants. Recent match data may indicate that (not surprisingly) US hospitals prefer USMDs over IMGs. If you're young and have the time, it really is worth your effort to try to get into a US school. Especially if this is your first application cycle.

Also what were your stats and EC's to get in?

My cGPA was something like 3.2 with a 31MCAT (I think). I have a BS in engineering, 3 years research experience and a couple niche mid-impact publications. I also worked full time in the ED for 3 years as a tech while applying to US schools and did a bunch of volunteer clinic work. Your cGPA and MCAT are really all matter for SGU.
 
I would love to hear what you have to say about why the Caribbean is a bad decision, Ben.

But I should add that I'm not necessarily gunning for those highly sought after residency spots. I would be happy with a career in FM, Psych, or IM from a low-tier community hospital. I just want to practice medicine and I see the Caribbean as the shortest path to get there. I could potentially be there by Jan 15 if all goes according to plan.
 
I would love to hear what you have to say about why the Caribbean is a bad decision, Ben.

But I should add that I'm not necessarily gunning for those highly sought after residency spots. I would be happy with a career in FM, Psych, or IM from a low-tier community hospital. I just want to practice medicine and I see the Caribbean as the shortest path to get there. I could potentially be there by Jan 15 if all goes according to plan.

First of all, I would encourage you to browse around these forums. This question comes up all the time. Secondly, I don't think coming to the Caribbean is a bad decision for everyone. There are some people that it's their best shot at reaching their goals, and for them I don't think it's bad. If you're Canadian/non-US citizen and want to practice in the US, for example. I'll give you my 3 biggest reasons why I don't think it's best for most people.

1. Inexperience combined with a disparity between expectations and reality
Most students that come here are young, relatively affluent, eager, and smart. That's a dangerous combination. It generally means that students aren't used to failure and don't know how to cope with it. Med school is an exercise in dealing with constant defeat. It's hard to put into words how frustrating it is to spend 60-80 hours a week studying and still coming up short. This isn't specific to the Caribbean, but down here you have to develop a completely new social support network and your usual methods of dealing with the stress aren't going to be available to you. There is really no getting away from medical school, it will be in your face 24 hours a day 7 days a week. Lack of experience also means most students don't understand the ramifications of taking on the loan debt. All Caribbean schools have a high washout rate. It's easy to think that you can just work hard and get through the program, and that you'll eventually be able to pay off your debt. I know at least 4 people that were dismissed from the school after failing classes between terms 1-4. That's anywhere from $35k-$100k in debt. That is life-changing. Being dismissed from a Caribbean school is just about the kiss of death. There is very, very little you can do to come back from that.

2. Everything is harder, takes longer, and costs more in the Caribbean
It just does. Internet is sketchy. The power goes out constantly. Last year we were on water rationing for a week and nobody could wash their clothes. Getting food takes at least 3x longer than it should. Just getting from campus to the grocery store takes 25 minutes and it's only 2 miles away (This is just for SGU, I've heard Ross and AUC are even worse for food). Groceries are twice as expensive. Electricity is 3 times as expensive. Writing exams takes forever because nothing ever works the first time. Housing is expensive. Applications for ECFMG certification is expensive and takes way longer than it should. Getting any paperwork processed takes forever. Visa applications for foreign students are a nightmare. Getting anything done turns into a production.

3. There are probably better options for most students.
Like I mentioned above, the application process for USMD programs is opening up. There are a lot of newer schools and the MCAT changes may make it easier for non-traditional students to get into US programs. Many students with borderline stats just come straight to the Caribbean without even trying to improve and get into a US program. The increasing cooperation between USMD/DO programs is further leveling the playing field for all US physicians. Anyone considering the Caribbean should first strongly consider a USDO program. For students interested in international medicine, there are other IMG programs available for US citizens in Ireland, the UK, Australia, and Israel that are similarly ranked as the Big 4 Caribbean schools, and almost certainly offer a better standard of living.
 
I see your comments as being focused on the living conditions one has to face on the island. I do not see this as a problem for me because I have lived in those third world conditions before.

I am not a strong candidate for US MD/DO programs so I see the Caribbean as my only hope of becoming a doctor. Is there any other information you could impart on me about the education in the Caribbean, Ben? As in, how are profs? Are they willing to help? How about other classmates? Also, how did this match cycle go for people you know? Was it harder than usual? What can you tell me about the positives and negatives from the perspective of alums you might have meet, heard of?

Anything would be great,

Thanks
 
Also, the Caribbean was not a serious option for me until I was convinced by the informative posts by you and Skip. Have you personally changed your position on off shore schools?
 
I see your comments as being focused on the living conditions one has to face on the island. I do not see this as a problem for me because I have lived in those third world conditions before.

I am not a strong candidate for US MD/DO programs so I see the Caribbean as my only hope of becoming a doctor. Is there any other information you could impart on me about the education in the Caribbean, Ben? As in, how are profs? Are they willing to help? How about other classmates? Also, how did this match cycle go for people you know? Was it harder than usual? What can you tell me about the positives and negatives from the perspective of alums you might have meet, heard of?

Anything would be great,

Thanks

Actually I think the living conditions are the easiest obstacle to overcome, they're just a constant annoyance and stressor on top of everything that starts to wear on you long-term. It wastes a lot of your time and that's one thing you won't have enough of. I think my first and last points are much larger factors, though.

Ok, so you're not a strong candidate. What have you changed about yourself that's going to suddenly make you a good student that's going to kick ass when you come down here? If you're consistently pulling low B's and C's in undergrad, and you can't top 22 on the MCAT, why do you think this is going to be different? The learning format is the same, 4 hours of lectures and 4 hours of labs pretty much everyday, only once you're down here, you're on your own. Past performance is a pretty indicator of future performance. The examinations only gets harder and the workload only increases. The profs aren't going to hand-hold you, it's pretty much all on you. You said you're not a candidate for a DO program, but have you taken the MCAT yet? If you can get a solid score on it, you can do a grade-replacement program and go DO. You could take a year and do a post-bacc program and get into a really good MD school.

The profs are hit and miss, most are pretty mediocre but there are a few good lecturers, same as any other school. The good ones will help if you come meet with them after class. Classmates are good, there really is no gunner mentality down here at all, and you're forced into lots of group work so you will get to know lots of them. I don't know of anyone directly who was doing the match this cycle. I don't know any alums that have graduated within the last few years.

Have you personally changed your position on off shore schools?

Not drastically, I knew the statistics when I started 2 years ago, and I weighed that against how much risk I was willing to take on given my age, past education, and previous performance. I think unless there is a big change in medical education, it is becoming a progressively risky decision to come to the Caribbean each year, especially for students that didn't perform well in undergrad. I'm not saying the world is ending, or that you're throwing your life away or anything like that, but matching has become dramatically more competitive in the last 5 years and I don't foresee that changing unless there are more funds released for new residency spots.
 
Ben, I've been looking more into non-Caribbean options. What can you tell me about the chances of getting a US residency from non-Caribbean options?
 
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In addition to Ben's excellent (and spot on) posts on this thread, I would only add the following:

1) If you make the decision to go, do not second-guess yourself. Go "all in", in that you will be determined to succeed from the moment you hit the island (whichever one you choose).

2) Start planning before you go. Figure out what the cost will be. Get all your ducks in a row. If you have the time, money, and inclination, take a few days to travel to the island before you make the decision and scope it out in person (not everyone has the time or money to do this). This may answer a lot of lingering questions.

3) Learn to study the right material for the tests. You will be completely lost the first semester before your first test about what is the important information to commit study time to. One way of helping with this is to get the "BRS" or "PreTest" series for each of the subjects that help condense the material and provide some sample questions. If you can get copies of the old tests, use those too. Start using these as your study aids to focus on what the profs will tell you is important. There are a lot of free online sites with pictures and databanks of questions. WebPath is one that was key for me 2nd year. (http://library.med.utah.edu/WebPath/webpath.html)

4) Don't get distracted. There are people there who just, quite frankly, don't want to be there. They are not doing it for themselves. They are doing it because their families want them to be a doctor. These people will not be a good influence.

5) Have some fun. It is important after the tests to blow off some steam. When the steam is blown-off that weekend, get back to work.

6) Be realistic. You're not going to get Derm or Plastics or Neurosurgery. You'll hear some people say that this is what they are going to pursue after school. You know what they'll likely be? Primary care. Yes, some will get choice residencies. But, this will not likely (based on the numbers) be most of you. But, you can get a good Internal Medicine residency, do well, and the door will open for fellowships for you. I've said before, I'm amazed at how well a lot of my classmates have done from Interventional Radiologists, Cardiologists, surgical attending staff at major Universities to people, like myself, killing it in private practice and living the good life.

7) I lost a ton of weight down there. This was a combination of stress and bad food. Also, at least as far as Ross goes, live as close to campus as possible. This is your safest option.

Good luck. Make your decision. Stick by it. And, be prepared. It's not easy. But, it's also worth it in the end.

-Skip
 
Ben, I've been looking more into non-Caribbean options. What can you tell me about the chances of getting a US residency from non-Caribbean options?

I can't tell you much, I just recall reading about them recently and thinking I would have investigated those options had I known about them two years ago. Their Match rates comparable to those of the Big 4 Caribbean schools. I specifically recall schools in Ireland and Israel, because those are both places wherein I want to travel. I would recommend looking through the Match statistics from 2013, there should be graphs and charts of data with the Match rates for international schools.

So I'm still curious. How have you improved yourself such that you won't repeat your past performance once you've reach medical school? This is the big question you should be asking yourself. It doesn't matter where you go if you can't pass muster.
 
7) I lost a ton of weight down there. This was a combination of stress and bad food.

Glad I'm not the only one, jeeze. I'm 30lbs down this term alone. I haven't decided how much of that is from Step stress and how much is from food poisoning, though. I think I'm swearing off canned chicken and tuna for six months when I get back to the States.
 
I can't tell you much, I just recall reading about them recently and thinking I would have investigated those options had I known about them two years ago. Their Match rates comparable to those of the Big 4 Caribbean schools. I specifically recall schools in Ireland and Israel, because those are both places wherein I want to travel. I would recommend looking through the Match statistics from 2013, there should be graphs and charts of data with the Match rates for international schools.

So I'm still curious. How have you improved yourself such that you won't repeat your past performance once you've reach medical school? This is the big question you should be asking yourself. It doesn't matter where you go if you can't pass muster.


Well, I am in the process of taking my first pre req for med school (orgo 1) and right now I have a ~3.4 GPA. I've performed well in the past but have dealt with an illness the past few years which has left a glaring ~51 hours of non academic withdrawals on my transcript. I imagine every US MD/DO would shriek at the sight of all those W's! So that's why I consider the Caribbean to be my only option into medicine.

To answer your question, I am getting back into my old studying form,when I maintained >3.6 gpa. I don't have a well thought out plan for how I will approach studying on the island, but I am actively gaining more knowledge on how to be a good student when there. There is no guarantee of success on the island, but I can't see myself not getting jacked up for such an amazing opportunity. I know, I sound hopelessly optimistic, but it's all I have.

On the brighter side, I still have to take a year of chem, physics, bio, then the MCAT. So there is still hope for DO and some hope for MD. But all of my non-academic withdrawals and normal withdrawals will be tough to explain to ad coms. I just hope one of the Big 4 give me a chance.
 
In addition to Ben's excellent (and spot on) posts on this thread, I would only add the following:

1) If you make the decision to go, do not second-guess yourself. Go "all in", in that you will be determined to succeed from the moment you hit the island (whichever one you choose).

2) Start planning before you go. Figure out what the cost will be. Get all your ducks in a row. If you have the time, money, and inclination, take a few days to travel to the island before you make the decision and scope it out in person (not everyone has the time or money to do this). This may answer a lot of lingering questions.

3) Learn to study the right material for the tests. You will be completely lost the first semester before your first test about what is the important information to commit study time to. One way of helping with this is to get the "BRS" or "PreTest" series for each of the subjects that help condense the material and provide some sample questions. If you can get copies of the old tests, use those too. Start using these as your study aids to focus on what the profs will tell you is important. There are a lot of free online sites with pictures and databanks of questions. WebPath is one that was key for me 2nd year. (http://library.med.utah.edu/WebPath/webpath.html)

4) Don't get distracted. There are people there who just, quite frankly, don't want to be there. They are not doing it for themselves. They are doing it because their families want them to be a doctor. These people will not be a good influence.

5) Have some fun. It is important after the tests to blow off some steam. When the steam is blown-off that weekend, get back to work.

6) Be realistic. You're not going to get Derm or Plastics or Neurosurgery. You'll hear some people say that this is what they are going to pursue after school. You know what they'll likely be? Primary care. Yes, some will get choice residencies. But, this will not likely (based on the numbers) be most of you. But, you can get a good Internal Medicine residency, do well, and the door will open for fellowships for you. I've said before, I'm amazed at how well a lot of my classmates have done from Interventional Radiologists, Cardiologists, surgical attending staff at major Universities to people, like myself, killing it in private practice and living the good life.

7) I lost a ton of weight down there. This was a combination of stress and bad food. Also, at least as far as Ross goes, live as close to campus as possible. This is your safest option.

Good luck. Make your decision. Stick by it. And, be prepared. It's not easy. But, it's also worth it in the end.

-Skip

Skip, I've read that you graduated with honors from Ross. How were you able to accomplish this? Also, is doing that well essential for a decent residency placement? I would be happy with FM, IM, Psych. Is it necessary to honor in order to match into these specialties?
 
Skip, I've read that you graduated with honors from Ross. How were you able to accomplish this? Also, is doing that well essential for a decent residency placement? I would be happy with FM, IM, Psych. Is it necessary to honor in order to match into these specialties?

Eh... doesn't mean much. Just something to put on your curriculum vitae. The most important thing is your Step scores and your LORs. You will be Matched into a residency before this becomes an issue.

But, there are three levels of honors (or, at least, there was) when I graduated. If your GPA is > 3.5, you will graduate with Honors. Then there's "high honors" and "highest honors". Basically, I think for highest honors you have to get like a 3.9 cumulative GPA. I think (without looking back at my transcript) I graduated with a 3.6+ GPA. Basically, I got mostly "A"s and some scattered "B"s in coursework on the island, and I think I had one or two (or a few) "Bs" when I was in clinicals. I got a cool colored tassel to wear on my graduation cap. And, I got to stand-up and be recognized during the graduation ceremony (as a group). About 10-15% of my class, if I recall correctly, graduated with some form of honors or higher.

Again, doesn't mean much coming from the Caribbean. Just a nice feather, or in this case tassel, in your cap. And, if you go onto do additional graduate studies (MS, MBA, PhD, etc.), you can put this on your application.

-Skip
 
Glad I'm not the only one, jeeze. I'm 30lbs down this term alone. I haven't decided how much of that is from Step stress and how much is from food poisoning, though. I think I'm swearing off canned chicken and tuna for six months when I get back to the States.

I'm sure that I had at least one case of shigella from the "Shacks". I remember one time a solid week of the trots. That place would be closed down in less than 5 minutes if it existed anywhere in the U.S.

God bless third-world countries.

-Skip
 
Well, I am in the process of taking my first pre req for med school (orgo 1) and right now I have a ~3.4 GPA. I've performed well in the past but have dealt with an illness the past few years which has left a glaring ~51 hours of non academic withdrawals on my transcript. I imagine every US MD/DO would shriek at the sight of all those W's! So that's why I consider the Caribbean to be my only option into medicine.

To answer your question, I am getting back into my old studying form,when I maintained >3.6 gpa. I don't have a well thought out plan for how I will approach studying on the island, but I am actively gaining more knowledge on how to be a good student when there. There is no guarantee of success on the island, but I can't see myself not getting jacked up for such an amazing opportunity. I know, I sound hopelessly optimistic, but it's all I have.

On the brighter side, I still have to take a year of chem, physics, bio, then the MCAT. So there is still hope for DO and some hope for MD. But all of my non-academic withdrawals and normal withdrawals will be tough to explain to ad coms. I just hope one of the Big 4 give me a chance.

If you're saying that they're non-academic withdrawals then you can't assume that people will immediately disregard your application, especially if you do well in the upcoming pre-reqs. I would assume there is no doubt you will be asked about it, but if you can provide a legitimate reason, then I think you could still make it into a US school if you can get A's in the pre-reqs and do well on the MCAT. Just stay positive, apply broadly when the time comes, and you should be fine.

Also, don't listen to idiotic comments like that made above about solely needing a checkbook. I'm a student at SGU and I didn't even get in directly having a GPA above 3.0 and an MCAT above 30. The average SGU student would get into US DO schools and would get interviews at lower tier allo schools without question, so your peers are decent kids. However, it's just an extremely unwise decision to go to the Caribbean now with the projected outlook for Carib students to match in the future. I would still say SGU and Ross are a viable LAST RESORT option for those who literally have no other choice, but you aren't even close to being in that situation. So continue studying, crush the MCAT, and don't look back.
 
Well, I am in the process of taking my first pre req for med school (orgo 1) and right now I have a ~3.4 GPA. I've performed well in the past but have dealt with an illness the past few years which has left a glaring ~51 hours of non academic withdrawals on my transcript. I imagine every US MD/DO would shriek at the sight of all those W's! So that's why I consider the Caribbean to be my only option into medicine.

To answer your question, I am getting back into my old studying form,when I maintained >3.6 gpa. I don't have a well thought out plan for how I will approach studying on the island, but I am actively gaining more knowledge on how to be a good student when there. There is no guarantee of success on the island, but I can't see myself not getting jacked up for such an amazing opportunity. I know, I sound hopelessly optimistic, but it's all I have.

On the brighter side, I still have to take a year of chem, physics, bio, then the MCAT. So there is still hope for DO and some hope for MD. But all of my non-academic withdrawals and normal withdrawals will be tough to explain to ad coms. I just hope one of the Big 4 give me a chance.

My suggestion, get you work done, take the MCAT, and then apply widely for MD and DO spots. If you don't get in the first year, try a second year. If you still don't get, THEN think about going to the Caribbean. You think you can't get into a US school, but you haven't tried yet. Try and fail that and then go Caribbean.
 
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Also, don't listen to idiotic comments like that made above about solely needing a checkbook. I'm a student at SGU and I didn't even get in directly having a GPA above 3.0 and an MCAT above 30.
Did you bother to read what others wrote before condemning it as idiotic? I'm also an SGU student. I'm not just running my mouth. I've been living this life for the last 2 years. If you struggled getting in with a >3.0gpa and a MCAT>30 there is probably something else on your application or interview that you should be concerned about. Also, you should recognize that I'm not just trying to be a dick about this. I'm not uninformed on this subject, I stay acutely abreast of these developments because they directly impact my desirability as a resident. Academic withdrawals are a red flag no matter where you're applying. Given how competitive USMD programs, and even USDO programs are right now, a withdrawal is enough to relegate you to --literally-- the bottom of the application stack. If you've got >1000 applications for 120 spots, why would you bother even considering an application that is anything less than stellar? This is the current state of medical education. It's stupid and it's petty and it probably diminishes our profession as a whole, but it's simply the way it is right now. This is doubly odd to me, because you're giving the same advice that I am. We both seem to largely agree that this is not a good option for most people. Interviews don't mean squat if you can't secure a position as a student. This is not a process where you should risk mediocrity.
 
Did you bother to read what others wrote before condemning it as idiotic? I'm also an SGU student. I'm not just running my mouth. I've been living this life for the last 2 years. If you struggled getting in with a >3.0gpa and a MCAT>30 there is probably something else on your application or interview that you should be concerned about. Also, you should recognize that I'm not just trying to be a dick about this. I'm not uninformed on this subject, I stay acutely abreast of these developments because they directly impact my desirability as a resident. Academic withdrawals are a red flag no matter where you're applying. Given how competitive USMD programs, and even USDO programs are right now, a withdrawal is enough to relegate you to --literally-- the bottom of the application stack. If you've got >1000 applications for 120 spots, why would you bother even considering an application that is anything less than stellar? This is the current state of medical education. It's stupid and it's petty and it probably diminishes our profession as a whole, but it's simply the way it is right now. This is doubly odd to me, because you're giving the same advice that I am. We both seem to largely agree that this is not a good option for most people. Interviews don't mean squat if you can't secure a position as a student. This is not a process where you should risk mediocrity.

The only post I referenced was the second and I breezed through the others. I was specific as to what I considered to be inappropriate. While everyone should be well aware of the difficulties ahead by putting oneself in the unpromising situation of being a Caribbean student, I have never agreed with the mockery that others display when addressing the subject. At some point, we will all be colleagues and I find it pretty annoying that I will have to be amongst people who still behave in a childish manner. Obviously I am here, so I will take a little pride in that.

I'll keep it simple, for the sake of essentially not telling you who I am, and say that there were no red flags in my application. Though I accept what we deal with and like that we are being prepared, sometimes you have to take the blinders off and see the things the school does that show it is a business first. The amount of stories I've heard from people who are here is ridiculous. I knew what I was getting into when I applied, but I didn't care about the stigma of coming down as long as I knew I was being adequately prepared. It is only recently that I've began to regret the decision. However, this is really only because I am now thinking of doing things that may be a little on the competitive side, for which obviously I'll have a much more difficult time. I bust my ass and know my ability, so unless there is some law put in place for next year that flat out prevents USIMGs from matching, there is literally a 0% chance that I would not match into IM/FM if that's what I decided to do. 0. If you research you will realize there are people that don't match, but from what I see (at least at our school) it is almost always someone who did not go about the process the right way... decelled courses, failed courses, barely passed the step, didn't pass the step on 1st attempt, and then did not go into the match with a solid plan; i.e. they only applied to programs they literally had no shot of getting into.

Regarding the OP, I simply stated that if there is in fact a legitimate reason for the Withdrawals, then there is still a possibility. Such a reason is a chronic health condition for which OP now has under control.. Clearly the someone passed away or I had trouble adjusting excuse would not be sufficient. With a current 3.4 gpa and a majority of the pre-reqs left, he still has a decent amount of time to significantly raise his gpa. I am well aware of what it takes to get into a US allo school. I think one should also realize there are different tiers. I think we'd all agree that being at the "worst" allo school is better than being in the Caribbean. If the OP was to improve and rock the MCAT, I don't know why it would be viewed as farfetched that he could still be accepted into a lower tier medical school.
 
All you really need is a pulse and the ability to write a check.
Is the pulse absolutely required? (You could perhaps be on a mechanical heart pump without a "pulse.") And perhaps you should
add "the ability to write a big check that would be honored by your bank to cover your quarter million plus educational expenses."
 
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If you've got >1000 applications for 120 spots, why would you bother even considering an application that is anything less than stellar?

But, what matters is the total number of applicants, not applications. More applications means more spots ranked by programs.

This year's Match including increased number of spots offered, and is parallel to last year's. Odds of matching if you were Caribbean were about the same.

-Skip
 
If you research you will realize there are people that don't match, but from what I see (at least at our school) it is almost always someone who did not go about the process the right way... decelled courses, failed courses, barely passed the step, didn't pass the step on 1st attempt, and then did not go into the match with a solid plan; i.e. they only applied to programs they literally had no shot of getting into.

This is probably mostly true. There is still the possibility you won't Match. The interview is important. If you blow that, all bets are off no matter your numbers.

-Skip
 
If you're saying that they're non-academic withdrawals then you can't assume that people will immediately disregard your application, especially if you do well in the upcoming pre-reqs. I would assume there is no doubt you will be asked about it, but if you can provide a legitimate reason, then I think you could still make it into a US school if you can get A's in the pre-reqs and do well on the MCAT. Just stay positive, apply broadly when the time comes, and you should be fine.

Also, don't listen to idiotic comments like that made above about solely needing a checkbook. I'm a student at SGU and I didn't even get in directly having a GPA above 3.0 and an MCAT above 30. The average SGU student would get into US DO schools and would get interviews at lower tier allo schools without question, so your peers are decent kids. However, it's just an extremely unwise decision to go to the Caribbean now with the projected outlook for Carib students to match in the future. I would still say SGU and Ross are a viable LAST RESORT option for those who literally have no other choice, but you aren't even close to being in that situation. So continue studying, crush the MCAT, and don't look back.

Do I have a shot at upper tier MS institutions with a high MCAT score? I taking all of my prereqs at a community college. Will that diminish my chances at a good US MD schools?
 
Also, I have a major mental disorder. I don't think ad coms will look to favorably on that, so I would like to avoid the topic. Can I possibly do that?
 
Also, I have a major mental disorder. I don't think ad coms will look to favorably on that, so I would like to avoid the topic. Can I possibly do that?

What major mental disorder are you referring to?

-Skip
 
What major mental disorder are you referring to?

-Skip

Schizoaffective Disorder. I've been hospitalized once before, but I'm stable now. How do you think ad coms will perceive this, Skip?
 
Schizoaffective Disorder. I've been hospitalized once before, but I'm stable now. How do you think ad coms will perceive this, Skip?

Down the road, you will have to disclose information, during the licensing process, regarding any disabilities that may impair your ability to practice. All licensing boards require information about whether or not you have a history of drug or alcohol abuse. Some of those boards will specifically ask about mental health information and whether or not this will be a problem It will be your responsibility whether or not to disclose this type of information, and what parts of the American's with Disability Act you are legally covered by when a decision is made whether or not to.

I tell you this now because this will be a bigger thing down the road you will have to address. There are plenty of successful physicians who have all manner of health and/or psychiatric diagnoses. There may be significant additional regulatory requirements in order to get or maintain a license, especially if your mental health history has involved hospitalization. This also may be a liability issue for you if you are ever named in a medical malpractice lawsuit and this comes up during discovery.

All that aside...

Medical school is tough. It's doubly tough going the Caribbean route. Your brain will be taxed and challenged in ways that you cannot now imagine. You will be in a foreign country around people you don't know in unfamiliar territory. You may not have immediate access to the medications you need or hospitalization if you have a crisis. I would do some significant soul-searching and have a discussion with whomever is providing your care about whether or not this will be a problem for you.

-Skip
 
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Down the road, you will have to disclose information, during the licensing process, regarding any disabilities that may impair your ability to practice. All licensing boards require information about whether or not you have a history of drug or alcohol abuse. Some of those boards will specifically ask about mental health information and whether or not this will be a problem It will be your responsibility whether or not to disclose this type of information, and what parts of the American's with Disability Act you are legally covered by when a decision is made whether or not to.

I tell you this now because this will be a bigger thing down the road you will have to address. There are plenty of successful physicians who have all manner of health and/or psychiatric diagnoses. There may be significant additional regulatory requirements in order to get or maintain a license, especially if your mental health history has involved hospitalization. This also may be a liability issue for you if you are ever named in a medical malpractice lawsuit and this comes up during discovery.

All that aside...

Medical school is tough. It's doubly tough going the Caribbean route. Your brain will be taxed and challenged in ways that you cannot now imagine. You will be in a foreign country around people you don't know in unfamiliar territory. You may not have immediate access to the medications you need or hospitalization if you have a crisis. I would do some significant soul-searching and have a discussion with whomever is providing your care about whether or not this will be a problem for you.

-Skip

Yeah I've read past forums that indicated this will be a problem down the road and I've made my decision as to what I do if I ever make it that far.

But could disclosing this fact to adcoms during an interview ruin my chances at getting a seat at a U.S. or Caribbean medical school? Because I imagine most adcoms are aware of boards that ask you "mental health information". So why would they take a chance on someone who would have to lie in order to practice in the future?
 
Symmetry,

Here's an example of the requirements, in this case Nevada's, that you have to be willing to attest to (found on page 4 of the application):

1. Inability to practice medicine with reasonable skill and safety because of illness, a mental or physical condition or the use of alcohol, drugs, narcotics or any other substance.

http://www.medboard.nv.gov/Forms/Licensing/Physician Application.pdf

Many applications contain such requirements.

I am not a lawyer and I am not a mental health expert. Just so we're clear. But...

I would think that if you are in treatment and stable, and you have a mental health professional willing to attest to this, you are not required to disclose this to people as a condition of employment, education, or licensing provided you can say with certainty that this is true.

In the U.S., there are federal laws enacted to protect people from discrimination, namely the ADA regarding employment, that is intended to protect people with varying forms of clinical diagnoses:

If you have a disability and are qualified to do a job, the ADA protects you from job discrimination on the basis of your disability. Under the ADA, you have a disability if you have a physical or mental impairment that substantially limits a major life activity. The ADA also protects you if you have a history of such a disability, or if an employer believes that you have such a disability, even if you don't.

...

If you are applying for a job, an employer cannot ask you if you are disabled or ask about the nature or severity of your disability. An employer can ask if you can perform the duties of the job with or without reasonable accommodation. An employer can also ask you to describe or to demonstrate how, with or without reasonable accommodation, you will perform the duties of the job.

http://www1.eeoc.gov/eeoc/publications/ada18.cfm

Now, having said that, I heard a story when I was at Ross about a guy who "snapped" and left campus one day. No one could find him. Everyone feared the worst. His parents came down to the island and hired a bunch of locals to find him, paying the person who did a handsome reward if he was safely returned. As the story goes, he had left campus and climbed one of the mountains, set up camp, and was essentially living alone by himself in this remote area of the island. When they asked him who he was, he said his name and that he "lived here now." He was returned safely to his parents and was, needless to say, withdrawn from the school. Almost like a classic fugue state.

In short, if you are concerned enough, I'd suggest that you talk to an attorney who specializes in this area of the law before you make any major life decisions.

Good luck!

-Skip
 
Symmetry,

Now, having said that, I heard a story when I was at Ross about a guy who "snapped" and left campus one day. No one could find him. Everyone feared the worst. His parents came down to the island and hired a bunch of locals to find him, paying the person who did a handsome reward if he was safely returned. As the story goes, he had left campus and climbed one of the mountains, set up camp, and was essentially living alone by himself in this remote area of the island. When they asked him who he was, he said his name and that he "lived here now." He was returned safely to his parents and was, needless to say, withdrawn from the school. Almost like a classic fugue state.

In short, if you are concerned enough, I'd suggest that you talk to an attorney who specializes in this area of the law before you make any major life decisions.

Good luck!

-Skip

Quoting for emphasis. This is not an isolated event. There have been suicides in the past, some recent. OP consider this decision carefully. Access to care is limited down here (especially for mental health) and you will have very little social support.
 
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