How to improve company retirement plan

[anes121508]

Hi all,

I work for an amc. AMC currently does not give docs any match. They match up to 2% for our crnas. The crnas and us hate this. Is there any way to structure the relationship between us and the amc that would allow us to be excluded from the crappy 401k plan and set up our own plan to maximize tax advantaged space?

Thanks!

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[BLADEMDA]

SOL

 

[okayplayer]

Don’t work for an AMC! Become a partner in an MD/DO-owned group and get profit sharing, cash balance plan, etc.

*******Attn: new grads/residents: reason #1,000,089 not to work for an AMC

 

[AdmiralChz]

You think you can negotiate a new benefits package with a large, multi group company? Lolz.

 

[sethco]

Ask to be made into a 1099 employee (I.e. Independent Contractor)? Obviously, if it matters that much to you, the easiest route is finding new employment

On another note, I would also look into the Summary Plan Description (SPD) of your 401k to see if a Mega Back Door Roth 401k is an option. An increasing number of plans are starting to allow this

 

[deleted171991]

Ask to be made into a 1099 employee (I.e. Independent Contractor)? Obviously, if it matters that much to you, the easiest route is finding new employment

On another note, I would also look into the Summary Plan Description (SPD) of your 401k to see if a Mega Back Door Roth 401k is an option. An increasing number of plans are starting to allow this

There is no 1099 employee, that's an oxymoron. There is just tax evasion and playing with fire.

 

[Mman]

There is no 1099 employee, that's an oxymoron. There is just tax evasion and playing with fire.

the rule is that if you could be classified as an employee (W2) you should be classified as an employee (W2) and not an independent contractor (1099).

I think part time people are the only ones that can realistically claim 1099 status.

 

[anes121508]

Don’t work for an AMC! Become a partner in an MD/DO-owned group and get profit sharing, cash balance plan, etc.

*******Attn: new grads/residents: reason #1,000,089 not to work for an AMC

I don’t disagree

 

[anes121508]

Ask to be made into a 1099 employee (I.e. Independent Contractor)? Obviously, if it matters that much to you, the easiest route is finding new employment

On another note, I would also look into the Summary Plan Description (SPD) of your 401k to see if a Mega Back Door Roth 401k is an option. An increasing number of plans are starting to allow this

Company limits the post tax space in 401k plan to 1%. Which means it’s not so mega. I still convert it over though

 

[anes121508]

You think you can negotiate a new benefits package with a large, multi group company? Lolz.

I’m not sure you this is helpful and I’m not sure you read my question.

 

[anes121508]

Ask to be made into a 1099 employee (I.e. Independent Contractor)? Obviously, if it matters that much to you, the easiest route is finding new employment

On another note, I would also look into the Summary Plan Description (SPD) of your 401k to see if a Mega Back Door Roth 401k is an option. An increasing number of plans are starting to allow this

super helpful, but I wish the spd didn’t limit the post tax space in the 401k to 1%.

I like that you brought up the SPD because that’s where I got the idea from. There are specific groups named in the SBD that are excluded from the 401K plan. So there must be a reason. Maybe these groups did what I’d like to do.

 

[Mman]

I’m not sure you this is helpful and I’m not sure you read my question.

your only option would be to unwind their acquisition of your group and restructure to some other relationship like you remaining independent and paying them a flat percentage of collections or a flat fee for HR/billing stuff and then doing your own retirement plan. But obviously that ain't happening...

 

[aneftp]

To be honest the new tax year 2018 trump tax brackets (essentially a 2% tax reduction for income 200k-400k. The spread 200k most of us make has been reduced from 35 to 33%.

So we save $4000 in federal taxes with 2% reduction. So I wouldn’t be too worried about no company match as long as the total compensation package is in line which what you would be making even with a match

Say company A offers no match
Employees makes 430k no match

company offers (5%) or 20k pretax towards retirement (based on 400k salary) (3-5 year vesting period)

these are typical real life numbers for anesthesia

What would you take?

Its not a lot difference. You have more flexibility with your post tax money. Especially in no state income tax state like Florida Washington state, Nevada etc.

 

[Mikkel]

I feel for you, but the only remedy is leaving.

 

[anes121508]

your only option would be to unwind their acquisition of your group and restructure to some other relationship like you remaining independent and paying them a flat percentage of collections or a flat fee for HR/billing stuff and then doing your own retirement plan. But obviously that ain't happening...

Oh come on, why not

 

[anes121508]

To be honest the new tax year 2018 trump tax brackets (essentially a 2% tax reduction for income 200k-400k. The spread 200k most of us make has been reduced from 35 to 33%.

So we save $4000 in federal taxes with 2% reduction. So I wouldn’t be too worried about no company match as long as the total compensation package is in line which what you would be making even with a match

Say company A offers no match
Employees makes 430k no match

company offers (5%) or 20k pretax towards retirement (based on 400k salary) (3-5 year vesting period)

these are typical real life numbers for anesthesia

What would you take?

Its not a lot difference. You have more flexibility with your post tax money. Especially in no state income tax state like Florida Washington state, Nevada etc.

Why isn’t your example 420k no match in option A?

Probably small part, but 401k plan contributions also lower your state taxable income correct?


Also, I’m thinking more along the lines of a plan similar to the pp groups I’ve seen that has a larger employer contribution and gets you closer to the 56k irs max.

 

[anes121508]

I feel for you, but the only remedy is leaving.

Truth.

 

[aneftp]

Why isn’t your example 420k no match in option A?

Probably small part, but 401k plan contributions also lower your state taxable income correct?


Also, I’m thinking more along the lines of a plan similar to the pp groups I’ve seen that has a larger employer contribution and gets you closer to the 56k irs max.

Because when my former group got taken over by one of the large amc. They wanted to make the salary conversion pretax vs post tax money to make the numbers work.

We had the usual 13% private practice match plus employee contribution up to the 54-55k max (max changes every year per irs guidelines)

We live in no income state tax state.

So our w2 “salary” was around 380k (the actual w2 form that’s sent to ira)
plus the private practice match pretax (55k give or take)

So amc came in and has No retirement match but offered a higher salarY w2 salary.