How to keep near my HPSP Girlfriend

[daveyjwin]

My girlfriend is doing the HPSP thing, and as such will be stuck with the army for some time when we are done with school. She's planning on going into Internal Medicine, as am I, and I was wondering what they possibility of being able to get our residencies together or nearby if she ends up doing a military hospital. I mean, the Army needs Doctors, civilian or otherwise, right?

I guess my key concern is being able to stay with her through residency and the 4 year commitment when school is done. We would theoretically be getting married sometime before school's out, probably 4th year (just finished 1st year now). What would be the best way to acheive this?

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[megadon]

Uhmm, look to get a residency in the city close to her? Other than going double jeoparty and going HPSP yourself, that's about the best advice I can give. My wife and I were seperate services, and were stationed apart for the first four years of our marriage. It sucked, but it can be done. That is the potential shotgun you're looking down.

 

[IgD]

My friend was a flight surgeon/GMO in the San Diego area. His wife was a 4th year medical student. She completed a residency in the San Diego area. They spent a significant amount of time apart but it worked out in the end.

 

[Gastrapathy]

If you are just dating when it comes time to being selected for a residency, you have absolutely NO say from the military side. Special considerations can only be made when a spouse is considered. Even at that, it will probably hard to say what the chances would be that you could get residencies near each other if you are a civilian. Realistically, your best chance of getting a residency near each other is if you do the HPSP route and go ARMY. The only thing you'd need to verify is if the two of you would be allowed to be in the same chain of command if you are married because the military frowns upon married couples in the same chain of command usually.

This is lowsy advice. Although your joining the Army MIGHT lead to colocation for residency, it won't prevent just as much separation over the following years of payback, deployment, etc. Most Army centers are close to civilian programs (DC, in particular, has a number of nearby options including programs in Baltimore). Take your chances with a separation during training and save yourself multiple separations over the next few years.

 

[daveyjwin]

Like I said, we would plan on getting married before we started the residency search. I was wondering, for instance, if she gets an internal medicine residency at X military hospital, I, as an civilian Doctor, could also do my residency there. Or at least, some place nearby.

 

[Gastrapathy]

Like I said, we would plan on getting married before we started the residency search. I was wondering, for instance, if she gets an internal medicine residency at X military hospital, I, as an civilian Doctor, could also do my residency there. Or at least, some place nearby.

If she does a military residency, you cannot train there unless you join. Nearby is a possibility if you can make the match work. Because she wants medicine, she is unlikely to get a full deferrment, which would have been the other way you could co-locate. Good luck.

 

[West Side]

Like I said, we would plan on getting married before we started the residency search. I was wondering, for instance, if she gets an internal medicine residency at X military hospital, I, as an civilian Doctor, could also do my residency there. Or at least, some place nearby.

If she was in the AF, most of their training hospitals are in some of the most godforsaken areas, and you wouldn't have had much a problem going to an undesirable locale written off by most other competitive candidates who have better choices.

Not as familiar with Army options, but you'll notice there aren't too many Army bases in the middle of major metropolitan areas.

Seems like the Navy's the only group smart enough to put bases where someone would voluntarily want to live.

 

[IgD]

If she was in the AF, most of their training hospitals are in some of the most godforsaken areas, and you wouldn't have had much a problem going to an undesirable locale written off by most other competitive candidates who have better choices.

Not as familiar with Army options, but you'll notice there aren't too many Army bases in the middle of major metropolitan areas.

Seems like the Navy's the only group smart enough to put bases where someone would voluntarily want to live.

It depends how you look at the situation. From the military and taxpayer perspective, the government is saving billions of dollars by having bases in rural areas. If you had a base in New York, the house allowance would probably be $3000 vs in a rural area it might be $1000.

 

[colbgw02]

If she was in the AF, most of their training hospitals are in some of the most godforsaken areas, and you wouldn't have had much a problem going to an undesirable locale written off by most other competitive candidates who have better choices.

Not as familiar with Army options, but you'll notice there aren't too many Army bases in the middle of major metropolitan areas.

Seems like the Navy's the only group smart enough to put bases where someone would voluntarily want to live.

Actually, the four major Army medcens are in relatively metropolitan areas. Walter Reed (D.C.), Brooke (San Antonio), and Tripler (Honolulu) are all in the middle of pretty big cities. Even Madigan (Tacoma) is a very reasonable distance from Seattle.

It's not so much for training but for tours that you could get stuck in BFE. The Army typically needs large land areas on which to train. Good luck in finding enough space for soldiers to safely train "in the middle of major metropolitan areas".


Edited to add: To the OP, my wife (then fiance) and I were in a similar situation a few years ago. We were lucky in that her (civilian) program director was very understanding of our situation. But also, saying that you will definitely rank a program #1 and having your spouse already match in that city can be a nice card to play.

 

[dtn3t]

I know Beaumont in El Paso, Tx has a military+civilian (VA sponsored?) internal med residency if that's what you're asking about.
Do NOT join because your GF/SO/wife is in. Not a good idea.

http://www.wbamc.amedd.army.mil/GME/ResidencyInternalMedicine/ResidencyInternalMedicine.asp

But then you have to be in El Paso.

 

[daveyjwin]

OK, I also confused about military residencies. Does she have to do a military residency, or can she do a civilian residency, in which we could both do it at the same place? If she could do a civilian residency, then we could theoretically do it together, and then, once I/we are done with residency, I could relocate to wherever the army sends her. I guess... I dunno...

 

[deuist]

OK, I also confused about military residencies. Does she have to do a military residency, or can she do a civilian residency, in which we could both do it at the same place? If she could do a civilian residency, then we could theoretically do it together, and then, once I/we are done with residency, I could relocate to wherever the army sends her. I guess... I dunno...

The way the military match works is that a board meets, decides how many physicians they're going to need in a particular specialty in the coming years, and then allows for that many people to enter that specialty. If they need more people than they can train at military hospitals, they begin offering deferments to civilian programs. Unfortunately for you, deferments are very rare in the Army. Your best bet: she will match in December. You'll have two months to try and convince the program directors at surrounding hospitals to rank you so that you can be near her.

To repeat what others have said, you cannot do an Army residency unless you are in the Army. (There are theoretically exceptions to this statement that involves a lot of paperwork and a need by the Army to have more residents. I have never seen anyone on this board claim to know of a civilian in a military residency.)

 

[West Side]

Actually, the four major Army medcens are in relatively metropolitan areas. Walter Reed (D.C.), Brooke (San Antonio), and Tripler (Honolulu) are all in the middle of pretty big cities. Even Madigan (Tacoma) is a very reasonable distance from Seattle.

I stand very much corrected. Thanks.

 

[daveyjwin]

She said she got some more information about this during the AMEDD tour at OBC yesterday, and this is how I understand it. The Army Hospitals have agreements with local area hospitals regarding employment and residencies for spouses, and then, after residency, army hospitals hire civilian doctors as contractors, right? I get preference for hiring in as a civilian contractor because my wife will be in the army, and failing that, the army can hook me up at another hospital nearby. So, an acceptable and realistic scenario is:

We get married before school ends, she does an army residency in IM in, say, D.C. and I do my civilian residency in IM in D.C. at a different hospital. We work apart, but live together. Then after residency, she volunteers to be stationed in Germany or some place that's not Iraq (I'll follow anywhere but a war zone), and I get hired on at the same hospital as her as a civilian contractor. We work there together for 4 years, have a couple kids, pay off my loans, and move back to the USA. Then life goes on.

Right? That seems like it would be a plausible scenario to me. Am I dreaming, or is this roughly how it could work out?

 

[Gastrapathy]

Right? That seems like it would be a plausible scenario to me. Am I dreaming, or is this roughly how it could work out?

Yup thats how it COULD work out. Or, you could end up doing your residencies in different cities and she could spend 2 of the next 4 years deployed to Iraq.

Sorry that sounds harsh, but the reality really could be either extreme or anywhere in between.

Good luck.

 

[AF Anesthesia]

By the way, volunteering to be stationed in Germany doesn't make her less like to be deployed to Iraq. Docs stationed overseas get deployed just like those stationed in the US.

 

[West Side]

By the way, volunteering to be stationed in Germany doesn't make her less like to be deployed to Iraq. Docs stationed overseas get deployed just like those stationed in the US.

For full disclosure, does that include "warm" zones like Korea?

 

[daveyjwin]

I'm kind of counting on the fact that A) she won't be in a high wartime demand specialty (internal med) and B) by the time we get done with residency and she's able to be deployed, we will be aiming to have a couple kids, and they don't deploy pregnant women.

I assume.

 

[West Side]

I'm kind of counting on the fact that A) she won't be in a high wartime demand specialty (internal med) and B) by the time we get done with residency and she's able to be deployed, we will be aiming to have a couple kids, and they don't deploy pregnant women.

I assume.

Ah ha. You've reached a critical fallacy in your thinking.

You assume that the Army deploys her in a capacity that matches her specialty. Tell all the pediatricians and proctologists deployed that they're not in "wartime demand specialties".

 

[Gastrapathy]

I'm kind of counting on the fact that A) she won't be in a high wartime demand specialty (internal med) and B) by the time we get done with residency and she's able to be deployed, we will be aiming to have a couple kids, and they don't deploy pregnant women.

I assume.

Well, you're wrong about the first assumption and right about the second. Lots of internists are deployed, even subspecialty internists. However, if she times a pregnancy or two correctly, you'll be able to screw a couple of her collegues into taking both their turn and her turn on deployment. Just don't expect everyone to appreciate that move and realize that she could deploy as soon as a couple of months after the birth of your child and leave you alone with an infant.

 

[daveyjwin]

By the time we are done with residency, it will be 2014. In theory we should be out of Iraq by then, and I won't have to worry about her being blown up. In theory anyway...

 

[Ex-44E3A]

we will be aiming to have a couple kids, and they don't deploy pregnant women.

Don't be one of those loathsome gold-brickers who screws their colleagues into sucking up all the deployments by playing the pregnancy card.

That's just weak... and a good way to have no friends of any kind in your section. They'll be looking for ways to pay you back for shifting your responsibilities onto them, not to mention your wife will be despised by every women who actually does deploy rather than use pregnancy to weasel out of it.

 

[deuist]

By the time we are done with residency, it will be 2014. In theory we should be out of Iraq by then...

... and be in North Korea or Iran.

 

[West Side]

By the time we are done with residency, it will be 2014. In theory we should be out of Iraq by then, and I won't have to worry about her being blown up. In theory anyway...

You know all those people just starting their residencies this month?

They all joined shortly after September 11th. I'm sure a lot of them thought we'd be out of harm's way by now too.

Check out the ego on you! A doctor, trying to predict the geopolitical climate seven years hence...my math isn't THAT good, but I believe you'd have better odds playing the worst odds in the casino (in case anyone cared, it's Let It Ride).

 

[jfitzpat]

Check out the ego on you! A doctor, trying to predict the geopolitical climate seven years hence...my math isn't THAT good, but I believe you'd have better odds playing the worst odds in the casino (in case anyone cared, it's Let It Ride).

Totally off topic, but the odds in Let it Ride are about 3.5% to the house if you play it right. Not good, but better than keno which starts at abouy 20% and goes up from there.

Sorry, back to your regularly scheduled thread...

 

[West Side]

Totally off topic, but the odds in Let it Ride are about 3.5% to the house if you play it right. Not good, but better than keno which starts at abouy 20% and goes up from there.

Sorry, back to your regularly scheduled thread...

They've phased the keno den out at a lot of major casinos on the left coast, so I'll take your word for it.

Degenerate gamblers unite!

 

[Gastrapathy]

They've phased the keno den out at a lot of major casinos on the left coast, so I'll take your word for it.

Degenerate gamblers unite!

Okay, I'll play.
House Percentage (assuming you play correctly):
Blackjack approx 0.5%
Craps 0.2-2% (depending on _X odds)
Three Card Poker 2%
Let It Ride 3.5%
Carribean Stud 5.2%
Roullete (00 wheel): 5.3%
Slots: 5-20%

Poker...depends on the rake and if you suck.

 

[deuist]

You forgot Sudan, Darfur

Genocide? A chance to make a difference? That's not for us.

 

[budhak0n]

Hey just my two cents, but I would just "assume" the worst if I made a military commitment.

I know nobody wants to go into a place where they could be killed every day but if you're making a commitment to a military organization especially in the capacity of a person who is trained to save lives , especially the lives of serious trauma victims... I would go in assuming the worst, which would mean it would be PROBABLE that somehow , someway, you would wind up in harm's way during some portion of your service.

Think about it.. Eh where would a MILITARY organization have the MOST need of trained "medical" staff?

The place where their soldiers or seaman or airman are experiencing the most sickness and injury.

Joining a Mil Med program with the thought that you'll be able to avoid deployment during your tenure just seems a bit strange to me.

Sounds an awful lot like Winchester lol

 

[HumptyDumptyMil]

Hey just my two cents, but I would just "assume" the worst if I made a military commitment.

I know nobody wants to go into a place where they could be killed every day but if you're making a commitment to a military organization especially in the capacity of a person who is trained to save lives , especially the lives of serious trauma victims... I would go in assuming the worst, which would mean it would be PROBABLE that somehow , someway, you would wind up in harm's way during some portion of your service.

Think about it.. Eh where would a MILITARY organization have the MOST need of trained "medical" staff?

The place where their soldiers or seaman or airman are experiencing the most sickness and injury.

Joining a Mil Med program with the thought that you'll be able to avoid deployment during your tenure just seems a bit strange to me.

Sounds an awful lot like Winchester lol

I agree. I just finished an introduction in aerospace medicine with the AF and they told us point blank we WILL be deployed sometime during our payback (AF recruiters will sometimes tell you different).

I do hope that your wife knew somewhere in the back of her mind that she will be deployed before she signed up. Lot of my colleagues unfortunately thought differently, and now are starting to doubt the decisions they made. At the same time, there are also a good number of us who are still very enthusiastic and looking forward to our career in the military.

Let's just hope that her deployment will be somewhere that is not so hot...

 

[megadon]

Okay, I'll play. I'm 2010. I don't think I'll be deployed to Iraq. However Iran and N. Korea concern me. On the white side, I think I'm good, on the black side, who knows Djibouti, Iraq, Iran are all questions. Even worse, I want to go IM, a speciality that can be exploiteted anywhere, who knows, maybe Venezulua. Better start working on my spanish senore.