I am considering psychiatry

[Premedical Investigator]

I graduated with my Bachelor’s of General Studies with a Concentration in Humanities with a Minor in History back in 2018 with a 3.51 GPA from Louisiana State University Shreveport. There was a downward trend in my GPA during my Junior and Senior years of undergraduate school because my grandmother died and I was very close to her, and I became so absentminded I’d leave assignments at home and forget to log in to take online finals, making me do worse in classes than I normally would. I’ve always been somewhat absent minded due to having ADHD and dysthymia which are both treatment-resistant, but now that I’ve grieved a few years, and have always found strategies to do well in school despite my problems with focusing and slow processing speed, I am ready to look at post-bacc programs to prepare myself to take the MCAT and go to medical school. I did retail pharmacy technician work during my college years and as a side job the following two years after college and did not thrive in the fast paced environment. However, I have been teaching high school chemistry classes the past couple years and have enjoyed that better and have performed better at that. Despite my success in education, however, I am still drawn to the idea of helping people one on one and providing personalized care for people in a way which will improve their lives. Despite not being able to help me with my ADHD and dysthymia, a psychiatrist helped me with my major depression and anxiety after the death of my grandmother, and an ophthalmologist recently cured me of lifelong vision problems I’ve suffered with that optometrists were unable to help me with. I have been interested in eye health and mental health for years, and have accumulated enough knowledge regarding the eyes and mind I was able to impress both my psychiatrist and ophthalmologist with my knowledge of terms and procedures. I enjoy my chemistry teaching position, but more and more, I’ve considered doing a post-bacc so I can resign from teaching to become either an ophthalmologist or psychiatrist, and it would probably be the latter due to how I cannot make myself work faster than a snail’s pace to save my life because I not only process information slowly but I also need to double check my work to make sure I didn’t make any careless errors. Is this a wise decision?

At any rate, this forum has already provided a wealth of information before I’ve even joined, but I wanted to at least make one post declaring my interest in psychiatry/ophthalmology as well as my presence on these boards. Thank you for your time and consideration.

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[Dr panda]

Get into medical school first, then choose a speciality, you may change your mind during rotations. I am sorry for your grandmother, but this is not an excuse for poor GPA (3.51 is not actually bad though, especially with good MCAT). What if you not get into ophthalmology (quit competitive speciality)? Will you want to be a doctor anyway? May be look at PsyD if you want to help people with depressions? You are mature enough to decide it by yourself. What knowledge about medicine (not psychiatry per se) do you have besides being treated? What is your GPA by year? 3.6 after 3.7 is not a downward (unlike 3.0).

 

[Goro]

I graduated with my Bachelor’s of General Studies with a Concentration in Humanities with a Minor in History back in 2018 with a 3.51 GPA from Louisiana State University Shreveport. There was a downward trend in my GPA during my Junior and Senior years of undergraduate school because my grandmother died and I was very close to her, and I became so absentminded I’d leave assignments at home and forget to log in to take online finals, making me do worse in classes than I normally would. I’ve always been somewhat absent minded due to having ADHD and dysthymia which are both treatment-resistant, but now that I’ve grieved a few years, and have always found strategies to do well in school despite my problems with focusing and slow processing speed, I am ready to look at post-bacc programs to prepare myself to take the MCAT and go to medical school. I did retail pharmacy technician work during my college years and as a side job the following two years after college and did not thrive in the fast paced environment. However, I have been teaching high school chemistry classes the past couple years and have enjoyed that better and have performed better at that. Despite my success in education, however, I am still drawn to the idea of helping people one on one and providing personalized care for people in a way which will improve their lives. Despite not being able to help me with my ADHD and dysthymia, a psychiatrist helped me with my major depression and anxiety after the death of my grandmother, and an ophthalmologist recently cured me of lifelong vision problems I’ve suffered with that optometrists were unable to help me with. I have been interested in eye health and mental health for years, and have accumulated enough knowledge regarding the eyes and mind I was able to impress both my psychiatrist and ophthalmologist with my knowledge of terms and procedures. I enjoy my chemistry teaching position, but more and more, I’ve considered doing a post-bacc so I can resign from teaching to become either an ophthalmologist or psychiatrist, and it would probably be the latter due to how I cannot make myself work faster than a snail’s pace to save my life because I not only process information slowly but I also need to double check my work to make sure I didn’t make any careless errors. Is this a wise decision?

At any rate, this forum has already provided a wealth of information before I’ve even joined, but I wanted to at least make one post declaring my interest in psychiatry/ophthalmology as well as my presence on these boards. Thank you for your time and consideration.

With a downward GPA trend, you're going to probably need to do a post-bac or SMP.

 

[Osminog]

I’m having an awfully difficult time deciding how to spend the millions of dollars I’ll have when I eventually win the Powerball jackpot. Should I first purchase a mansion or a yacht?

 

[Premedical Investigator]

Get into medical school first, then choose a speciality, you may change your mind during rotations. I am sorry for your grandmother, but this is not an excuse for poor GPA (3.51 is not actually bad though, especially with good MCAT). What if you not get into ophthalmology (quit competitive speciality)? Will you want to be a doctor anyway? May be look at PsyD if you want to help people with depressions? You are mature enough to decide it by yourself. What knowledge about medicine (not psychiatry per se) do you have besides being treated? What is your GPA by year? 3.6 after 3.7 is not a downward (unlike 3.0).

Fall Freshman: 4.0
Spring Freshman: 4.0
Fall Sophomore: 3.5
Spring Sophomore: 3.75
Fall Junior: 3.75
Spring Junior: 2.75 (my grandmother died at the start of finals week)
Summer Junior: 3.33
Fall Senior: 3.5
Spring Senior: 3.75

Overall GPA: 3.51

I guess that’s more of a U-shaped GPA trend than anything. My grandmother dying when she did really threw off my mojo for a while.

To address your other questions, I would still want to be a doctor if Ophthalmology fell through. Psychiatry interests me, as well, obviously. If that falls through, family medicine also works well.

Considering my experience working in allied health, I have picked up a working knowledge of medical terminology as well as knowledge of billing practices. I know enough about insurance I know I’d want to avoid it via operating under either a concierge or cash only model, and of those two, concierge medicine would be preferable due to the lower patient load and more personalized care I could give each patient. As a high school teacher, I am certified in math, biology, anatomy, chemistry, social studies, and psychology, meaning my knowledge of these topics is beyond that of a typical layperson. I may not have the depth of knowledge a physician would have in these topics, but I’m a relatively fast learner and could refine my knowledge with practice.

Psy.D was of interest to me, but in a split healthcare model, the psychologist is often portrayed as the “good guy” and the psychiatrist is portrayed as the “bad guy” who is also a “pill pusher”. Obviously, a balanced holistic approach to mental health care is preferred since some patients need psychotherapy like CBT, whereas others need psychotropics or some other kind of pharmaceutical. I’d like to be able to provide whatever care my patient needs, rather than splitting the care with another provider.

 

[Select All That Apply]

@Logan Ian Byrd I don't care about your cumulative GPA.
Have you taken science pre-req courses for medical school?
What's your science GPA (biology, chemistry, physics, and matheatics) classes?
Have you taken the MCAT?

Some red-flags with your narrative is attributing your inability to perform due to the death of "grandmother," "treatment-resistant" depression & ADHD, not being able to thrive in a fast paced environment with you later attributing it to being a "snail's pace," and your "knowledge of terms and procedures" to the point of impressing your psychiatrist/ophthalmologist.

First and foremost, you stated that you have ADHD. But you attribute your inability to perform in junior/senior year to the death of your grandmother. To me this seems to me like you have poor self-cognition in attributing responsibility, especially because you still describe yourself as working at a snail's pace. Is your slow work pace still the result of you dealing with the emotional trauma of coping with a dead grandparent? Are you going to take an LOA or start failing examinations because your grandfather kicks the bucket, mother has an illness, father gets into an auto-accident, brother develops cerebral palsy, or your sister gets her finger cut proofreading your personal statement?

Second, I'm not sure how I feel knowing that treatments were completely ineffective on you. The theory behind illness management is that there should be a treatment plan in place that results in self-recovery. If you are selling yourself as someone who deals with mental health issues of both attention and depression then I don't see how schools readily take you as a candidate when they can accept hundreds of other candidates who are aggressively optimistic and attention focused coming into M1. The grind from medical school often results in many students by M3 feeling like they are depressed and attention deficient, however that's after they go through the process, having someone with those already in place makes me feel like you will be passed for another candidate who is willing to sell a different self-representation of themselves.

Third, I think that you are placing yourself in a bad position if you are a slow learner. You will be required to perform on a weekly basis, learn topics at an alarming pace, and to keep growing that knowledge from a starting point. Students are starting to supplement basic classes with more independent learning like Zanki, B&B, sketchy, and FAPU to reduce their risk in having a low Step 1 board score. Psychiatry has become very competitive with this past match being the most brutal to students interested in the field. Anecdotally a student actually SOAP'ed into an IM program because they were rejected from all of their selected Psych programs.

Fourth, I think that it's hard to differentiate how much you know when you should be at a point where you know nothing at all. I have a very unsettling feeling when I meet someone I suspect of having dunning-kruger, especially if it is someone that I have to mentor. These people are difficult to trust from the get go because they don't ask enough questions, they assume they don't need help, and when they make a mistake they are highly prone to make a blatant attempt to hide their mistakes rather than accept responsibility for their actions. A large part of this likely comes from the divide between them having made a mistake and being under the delusion that they are at a competency where they should make no mistake. Stating that you have "accumulated enough knowledge" to "Impress" both your psychiatrist and ophthalmologist makes me think of the lip service that we are prone to give to patients in healthcare instead of politely telling them that they really don't know jack ****.

Goro is likely recommending that you do a post-bac because it will test whether or not you are able to perform after having poor performance your junior/senior year by your own admission. Also, to rule out the possible influence of having a dead family member impacting your actual academic ability. I think though that your narrative has too many flaws as you have written it on SDN to think writing it as-is on a personal statement for AMCAS/AACOMAS.

 

[Dr panda]

Fall Freshman: 4.0
Spring Freshman: 4.0
Fall Sophomore: 3.5
Spring Sophomore: 3.75
Fall Junior: 3.75
Spring Junior: 2.75 (my grandmother died at the start of finals week)
Summer Junior: 3.33
Fall Senior: 3.5
Spring Senior: 3.75

Overall GPA: 3.51

I guess that’s more of a U-shaped GPA trend than anything. My grandmother dying when she did really threw off my mojo for a while.

To address your other questions, I would still want to be a doctor if Ophthalmology fell through. Psychiatry interests me, as well, obviously. If that falls through, family medicine also works well.

Considering my experience working in allied health, I have picked up a working knowledge of medical terminology as well as knowledge of billing practices. I know enough about insurance I know I’d want to avoid it via operating under either a concierge or cash only model, and of those two, concierge medicine would be preferable due to the lower patient load and more personalized care I could give each patient. As a high school teacher, I am certified in math, biology, anatomy, chemistry, social studies, and psychology, meaning my knowledge of these topics is beyond that of a typical layperson. I may not have the depth of knowledge a physician would have in these topics, but I’m a relatively fast learner and could refine my knowledge with practice.

Psy.D was of interest to me, but in a split healthcare model, the psychologist is often portrayed as the “good guy” and the psychiatrist is portrayed as the “bad guy” who is also a “pill pusher”. Obviously, a balanced holistic approach to mental health care is preferred since some patients need psychotherapy like CBT, whereas others need psychotropics or some other kind of pharmaceutical. I’d like to be able to provide whatever care my patient needs, rather than splitting the care with another provider.

Medicine is not about billing, insurance, and anatomy, it is about patients. Ophthalmology, FM, Psych – 3 completely different fields (surgery, PCP, and mental health). Do you have any patient interaction? I don't want to question your science knowledge, I am sure you know a lot as a teacher, but you will be competing with top students (mostly science majors from reputable schools), so the competition is extremely furious, your competitors are not "typical laypersons". Life happens, close people die, friends commit suicides, wives get into car accidents, the question is not why you performed bad, but WHAT IF this will happen again when you are a doctor? I am not an adcom, but this looks like a red flag. What if you get a depression again and this will affect your patients?
I don't want to discourage you from being a doctor, but the point is – why medicine?
I like to cite one interview by former dean of admissions at my hometown medical schools (foreign city, interview is not published in English):
We always ask – "what are the motives for entering a medical university?"
- "The desire to do good with your own hands."
Fine! But there are a lot of other places where you can help people. And what is behind this answer? Romance, a kind of adaptability - the willingness to write what is expected of you?
-"The desire to alleviate the suffering of people"
So, this is closer. But where did we get the idea of medicine only as a sphere of work with people suffering? It turns out that healthy people do not need a doctor?
Then he lists few "right" answers that I will not disclose
So, why medicine anyway?

 

[On_The_Way_Up]

Are you willing to go DO? May not need a post-bac for DO programs. How many pre reqs have you done?

 

[plshelpvanxious]

I agree with the people posting above about really figuring out exactly what you want and if medicine is for you.

There are so many ways to help people! Even within teaching, you could probably look into opportunities that allow more one on one time with students. Idk if you said how much you like teaching, but I've had teachers that have made huge differences in my life.

Medicine is a long path. I love being a med student, but sometimes I wish I had spent more time considering other options that required less training, fewer loans, etc.

 

[NickNaylor]

As someone who just finished a general psychiatry residency yesterday, a few thoughts.

First, as others mentioned, choosing your specialty at this point is very pre-mature. Focus on getting into medical school and then, once you're in, focus on doing as well and learning as much as you possibly can. Barring extensive clinical exposure, it's unlikely that you'll have a real idea of what you want to do until you start your clerkships.

Second, if you're interested in psychiatry specifically, explore other mental health careers and see if something else might be interesting to you. I always worry about people that come to medical school with a plan to go into psychiatry because so much of your time - i.e., essentially all of medical school - will be spent doing and learning about non-psychiatry things that you may become disillusioned. Psychiatry is the red-headed stepchild of medicine, and there is very little true psychiatric education in most medical school programs. The exposure to psychiatry in medical school is just the tip of the iceberg - and often the more boring tips at that.

Third, you should go to medical school if you're interested in being a physician, not necessarily a specific type of physician. Again, medical school education is very general and prepares you to be a physician, no matter the specialty, rather than a specific kind of physician. If you're not interested in becoming a physician first and foremost, you should seriously reconsider your interest in going to medical school. This is true regardless of your "chosen" specialty but is doubly true for psychiatry for the reasons discussed above.

Good luck.

 

[Goro]

Fall Freshman: 4.0
Spring Freshman: 4.0
Fall Sophomore: 3.5
Spring Sophomore: 3.75
Fall Junior: 3.75
Spring Junior: 2.75 (my grandmother died at the start of finals week)
Summer Junior: 3.33
Fall Senior: 3.5
Spring Senior: 3.75

Overall GPA: 3.51

I guess that’s more of a U-shaped GPA trend than anything. My grandmother dying when she did really threw off my mojo for a while.

To address your other questions, I would still want to be a doctor if Ophthalmology fell through. Psychiatry interests me, as well, obviously. If that falls through, family medicine also works well.

Considering my experience working in allied health, I have picked up a working knowledge of medical terminology as well as knowledge of billing practices. I know enough about insurance I know I’d want to avoid it via operating under either a concierge or cash only model, and of those two, concierge medicine would be preferable due to the lower patient load and more personalized care I could give each patient. As a high school teacher, I am certified in math, biology, anatomy, chemistry, social studies, and psychology, meaning my knowledge of these topics is beyond that of a typical layperson. I may not have the depth of knowledge a physician would have in these topics, but I’m a relatively fast learner and could refine my knowledge with practice.

Psy.D was of interest to me, but in a split healthcare model, the psychologist is often portrayed as the “good guy” and the psychiatrist is portrayed as the “bad guy” who is also a “pill pusher”. Obviously, a balanced holistic approach to mental health care is preferred since some patients need psychotherapy like CBT, whereas others need psychotropics or some other kind of pharmaceutical. I’d like to be able to provide whatever care my patient needs, rather than splitting the care with another provider.

U-shaped trend, but I suspect there aren't enough data points to convince Adcoms that you've recovered your mojo.

You have to get your mental health issues (including the ADHD) under 100% control before continuing on this path. Medical school is a furnace, and I've seen it break even healthy students. The #1 reason my school loses students to withdrawal, dismissal or LOA is to unresolved mental health issues.

 

[Premedical Investigator]

Medicine is not about billing, insurance, and anatomy, it is about patients. Ophthalmology, FM, Psych – 3 completely different fields (surgery, PCP, and mental health). Do you have any patient interaction? I don't want to question your science knowledge, I am sure you know a lot as a teacher, but you will be competing with top students (mostly science majors from reputable schools), so the competition is extremely furious, your competitors are not "typical laypersons". Life happens, close people die, friends commit suicides, wives get into car accidents, the question is not why you performed bad, but WHAT IF this will happen again when you are a doctor? I am not an adcom, but this looks like a red flag. What if you get a depression again and this will affect your patients?
I don't want to discourage you from being a doctor, but the point is – why medicine?
I like to cite one interview by former dean of admissions at my hometown medical schools (foreign city, interview is not published in English):
We always ask – "what are the motives for entering a medical university?"
- "The desire to do good with your own hands."
Fine! But there are a lot of other places where you can help people. And what is behind this answer? Romance, a kind of adaptability - the willingness to write what is expected of you?
-"The desire to alleviate the suffering of people"
So, this is closer. But where did we get the idea of medicine only as a sphere of work with people suffering? It turns out that healthy people do not need a doctor?
Then he lists few "right" answers that I will not disclose
So, why medicine anyway?

For me, the simple answers are the shortage of some specialties of medicine is bad in my part of the country--particularly psychiatrists and clinical psychologists. I see myself providing a needed service in the community as well as providing ongoing healthcare and preventative care for my patients. One thing I enjoy about keeping patients on retainer rather than the traditional healthcare model is I can give each patient the attention they deserve to maintain their health. If something isn't right, they can come see me the next day. I'd encourage patients to make "well" visits as well since that's how we catch things early--and with a monthly due system in place, I believe that would encourage the increased frequency of visits. I have some patient interaction, and I've seen the good, the bad, and the ugly. When I was in high school, there was a dual CNA/Pharmacy technician program and I washed people and dealt with aggressive uncooperative patients in the training program. I ended up letting the CNA license lapse since having one full time job in pharmacy while doing undergrad was what I could handle. In pharmacy, I was a floater retail pharmacy technician. Even in Pharmacy, though, I got to see patients at POS and in slower pharmacies, I was able to develop a rapport with some of them. In the faster pharmacies, everything was very scripted and if anything didn't go exactly according to the script, I was instructed to pass those instances along to the pharmacist. Most of my experience with building rapport with people, however, has come from the classroom. People don't always want to hear what they need to hear and sometimes they ask for things that are either unethical or not in their best interest. In these instances, I've had to stand by my professional judgement, explain why I made the choice I made, and depending on the situation, contact the guardian of the child.

Are you willing to go DO? May not need a post-bac for DO programs. How many pre reqs have you done?

I've done the humanities pre-reqs. Next up are the science prereqs. My philosophy is actually more in line with DO than MD, but the nearest DO school is 5 hours away whereas the nearest MD school is 15 minutes away. I'm pretty attached to my house and would need to find a good tenant and property manager to hold my property while I'm gone if I end up going the DO route, which is enough for its own thread. It's a small property which will have low property taxes once I own it outright, and I intend to never sell it. I will definitely apply for DO, though. I was going to save 4 years of living expenses before doing med school, but since I just barely save 12,000 a year and I'd need 120,000 for 4 years of living expenses, I may just opt for a 20-year-term "pay as you go" loan I read about which lets you pay 10% of your income and forgives any balance left over after 20 years. Its not ideal, but I've built up a credit score of 800 and I intend to keep my good credit, so I'll take the longer term loan to play that aspect of borrowing safe.

 

[Select All That Apply]

@Logan Ian Byrd For clarification, you are considering becoming a psychiatrist and not considering seeing one. A theoretical future concierge practice, high school experiences, and current income/housing concerns. Is this what it feels like to be a clinical psychologist with a psychotherapeutic approach to therapy?