I know no one knows but how any thoughts on new MCAT evaluations

[aiminghigher1]

I have ok stats i think (3.98 GPA with decent activites, more info in WAMC thread) but I just dont think I have a shot of getting into any medical school with the new MCAT. I'm pretty set on MD over DO schools, but what I am afraid of the most is if I get a mediocre score on MCAT2015, schools will still take mediocre scores on the old MCAT over me. I feel like MCAT2015 is just a huge red flag saying wow this person is hard to analyze against our older applicants so we're just gonna go with the older applicants.

There are a bunch of resources out like LizzyM and Wedge ARS for evaluating likelihood of acceptance with the old MCAT but nothing for the new one because no one knows how the grades are gonna be weighted or whatever. Anyway I did not plan on taking a gap year and would be extremely disheartened if I was forced to not out of genuine desire to increase my profile and do something substantial but because I was obligated to by the MCAT shift.

If anyone had any ideas towards how admissions will look with the new MCAT and scoring (I know the standard answer is we'll get a better idea in June when April scores are released but applications open before then and I'm the type of person to submit their application right after its released) please just let me know.

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[deleted407021]

Medical schools will have no problem with the new metric. It's their job to assess each applicant holistically and their are very good at it. Purchase the "Official Guide to the MCAT Exam 2015" from the AAMC and get an idea of the new test. There's no reason why you shouldn't perform adequately if you prepare very, very well.

 

[MrLogan13]

Do the best that you can. The new MCAT is here, there's nothing you can do about that. There's nothing you can do about how the new MCAT may or may not be viewed. So why worry about it? But you do have some control over how well you do on the new MCAT. So do the best that you can to make yourself a competitive applicant.

 

[justadream]

Adcoms will use percentiles. 95th percentile on old MCAT will be seen as roughly equivalent to 95th percentile on the new MCAT.

 

[LSD-25]

Adcoms will use percentiles. 95th percentile on old MCAT will be seen as roughly equivalent to 95th percentile on the new MCAT.

The content is different though. It's like comparing apples and oranges, they're by no means equivalent.

 

[justadream]

The content is different though. It's like comparing apples and oranges, they're by no means equivalent.

They're not like apples and oranges. There is extensive overlap between the two tests. If you could score 99th percentile on the old one, it's likely that you would also score 95+ percentile on the new one.

It's not perfect (because of some content differences) but during the transition period, this will be the only way to deal with them.

 

[DrHart]

They're not like apples and oranges. There is extensive overlap between the two tests. If you could score 99th percentile on the old one, it's likely that you would also score 95+ percentile on the new one.

It's not perfect (because of some content differences) but during the transition period, this will be the only way to deal with them.

It's far from perfect. Not only is the content different, but the styles of question and strategy/approach to taking the test is also very different. Not to mention the test is longer. We had a discussion about this in the April MCAT takers thread. Its not as different as apples and oranges. Its more like oranges and grapefruit. But I do think they are significantly different.

 

[efle]

You can just convert it all into percentiles for the next two years. The real question is how the new content will be perceived, since there will not yet be any data on whether it's as good at predicting med school/step success as the reappearing content. Would two applicants with equal composite scores, one doing especially well in Bio and the other in Soc/Psych be perceived differently?

Can't wait to hear feedback from the first batch of testers and the coming cycle

 

[Goro]

Please give us some credit that we're smart enough to look at percentiles. It will take a few years before we settle on the easy metric of "10/10/10 = 30 = competitive for MD schools" for the new test.


I have ok stats i think (3.98 GPA with decent activites, more info in WAMC thread) but I just dont think I have a shot of getting into any medical school with the new MCAT. I'm pretty set on MD over DO schools, but what I am afraid of the most is if I get a mediocre score on MCAT2015, schools will still take mediocre scores on the old MCAT over me. I feel like MCAT2015 is just a huge red flag saying wow this person is hard to analyze against our older applicants so we're just gonna go with the older applicants.

FYI, AMCAS is telling us that the new section of "Psychosocial" is a good predictor of success for med students taking stats, epidemiology and neuroscience.

 

[Doug Underhill]

Wow, this person is more neurotic than I am, and that's saying something.

MCAT 2015 is not going to screw you over this app cycle. If you're really, really worried that it is, take a gap year, boost your ECs further, and apply next year, where the overwhelming majority of applicants will have MCAT 2015 scores and everyone will be in the same boat.

 

[aiminghigher1]

See that's why my advising office is telling everybody at my school. They're saying to most people planning on taking the new MCAT it's better to apply next cycle when everyone is applying with the 2015 test regardless of outside stats or GPA or ECs. I just think that's horse crap that just because we opted to take a newer test means we should be forced to apply next cycle. I know the mindset of most people is just do well on the new test (which is much easier said than done), but I'm just trying to think macroscopically about what ADCOMs are thinking.

 

[Doug Underhill]

The adcoms will be comparing percentiles, as they've stated on SDN. There will be a few adcoms who are excited about the new MCAT and preferentially take applicants with new MCAT scores. There will probably be a few old fogeys who will prefer the old MCAT for whatever reason. You can't control it and you'll never even know. In this process, you'll apply to 20 schools and probably be accepted to one. It's time to accept that you're going to be rejected from schools for lots of reasons, most of which are beyond your control, and even if you aren't, you can only go to one medical school anyway.

 

[NickNaylor]

It's far from perfect. Not only is the content different, but the styles of question and strategy/approach to taking the test is also very different. Not to mention the test is longer. We had a discussion about this in the April MCAT takers thread. Its not as different as apples and oranges. Its more like oranges and grapefruit. But I do think they are significantly different.

And this "fact" or "opinion" helps you and/or other people taking the new test how...?

Don't worry about how people may or may not interpret the new scores. As others said, it's something you can't control. Your sole focus should be doing as well as you possibly can. If you do that and you do well, then you don't have to worry about how people may or may not interpret your scores.

 

[DrHart]

And this "fact" or "opinion" helps you and/or other people taking the new test how...?

Don't worry about how people may or may not interpret the new scores. As others said, it's something you can't control. Your sole focus should be doing as well as you possibly can. If you do that and you do well, then you don't have to worry about how people may or may not interpret your scores.

it doesn't. simply an opinion, friend. not worried in the least about getting into medical school. just interested in the peculiar situation is all.

 

[ski89]

The content is different though. It's like comparing apples and oranges, they're by no means equivalent.

I disagree, it's more like comparing honey crisp apples to fugu apples. They have different flavor profiles but roughly yield the same nutrients and overall caloric value.

 

[aiminghigher1]

First off thanks everyone for responding, for the most part it helped in revealing that medical schools are just as confused as test takers on how to evaluate scores. Most of you said the only thing I can really do is do well on the test, which I'm pretty sure I knew before writing this post, but thanks anyway.

A lingering question i had was, do you think that this year there might be even the slightest bit heavier of an emphasis on GPA/ECs for admission? I know most of you are just going to respond back with variations on "ADCOMs know what they're doing and will evaluate holistically as they always have done" or "just succeed on your MCAT and continually improve your profile as much as you can and you will be competitive, don't focus on what the ADCOMs will focus on or won't" but that's fluff that advisors/admissions reps are paid to say, i'm wondering if anyone has heard or knows things regarding criteria for this cycle specifically?

 

[NickNaylor]

First off thanks everyone for responding, for the most part it helped in revealing that medical schools are just as confused as test takers on how to evaluate scores. Most of you said the only thing I can really do is do well on the test, which I'm pretty sure I knew before writing this post, but thanks anyway.

A lingering question i had was, do you think that this year there might be even the slightest bit heavier of an emphasis on GPA/ECs for admission? I know most of you are just going to respond back with variations on "ADCOMs know what they're doing and will evaluate holistically as they always have done" or "just succeed on your MCAT and continually improve your profile as much as you can and you will be competitive, don't focus on what the ADCOMs will focus on or won't" but that's fluff that advisors/admissions reps are paid to say, i'm wondering if anyone has heard or knows things regarding criteria for this cycle specifically?

The information you're looking for does not exist. Adcoms are not "confused." This is the first year the new MCAT has been administered. There is no data that looks into MCAT performance vs. future medical school performance, which is arguably the most important factors that adcoms would be looking for. Even then, it will simply come down to better scores. A higher score is going to "beat" a lower score, period.

You're overthinking this. When are you applying? If it's anytime in the near future, there's very little you can do at this point to substantively improve your app. What, if "GPA/ECs" are more "emphasized" are you going to rush out and get some ECs or improve your 3.98 GPA?

It's going to be what it's going to be. "Frantic energy as a defense against impotence, frantic energy as a defense against change." That's what you're displaying. Remain calm and carry on. It's all going to be fine.

 

[gyngyn]

The content is different though. It's like comparing apples and oranges, they're by no means equivalent.

It doesn't matter. We'll just use percentages.

 

[DrShephardWannabe]

I disagree, it's more like comparing honey crisp apples to fugu apples. They have different flavor profiles but roughly yield the same nutrients and overall caloric value.

And all we have to do is have a better flavor profile than everyone else who ate the same fruit

 

[justadream]

First off thanks everyone for responding, for the most part it helped in revealing that medical schools are just as confused as test takers on how to evaluate scores. Most of you said the only thing I can really do is do well on the test, which I'm pretty sure I knew before writing this post, but thanks anyway.

A lingering question i had was, do you think that this year there might be even the slightest bit heavier of an emphasis on GPA/ECs for admission? I know most of you are just going to respond back with variations on "ADCOMs know what they're doing and will evaluate holistically as they always have done" or "just succeed on your MCAT and continually improve your profile as much as you can and you will be competitive, don't focus on what the ADCOMs will focus on or won't" but that's fluff that advisors/admissions reps are paid to say, i'm wondering if anyone has heard or knows things regarding criteria for this cycle specifically?

If you are thinking MCAT comparisons are difficult, you should definitely not even consider GPA comparisons.

Let's illustrate a few of the problems with GPA comparison:

• Different schools have different peer group qualities (beating the peer group at Harvard is harder than beating it at the #2800 college)
  
• Different grading systems in schools (e.g., some have A-, some do not)
• Different majors (some are harder than others).
  
• Different concentrations within majors (some are harder than others)
• Different classes used to fulfill the concentrations within majors (some classes are harder than others)
• Different professors used to teach the same classes (some professors may employ different grading schemes or have a different class format/requirements)
• Different times when a professor teaches a class (a professor might change his grading scheme from one semester to another)

Thus, even if a student were to take the exact same classes at the exact same school with the exact same professors (and have the exact same major) as another student, it is still really hard to meaningfully (statistically) compare GPAs if the students were to take some classes in different orders (when the grading scheme between semesters might change, or the relative strength of the peer group might be different between semesters).

The MCAT is a standardized test. You are able to compare scores among students from across the country in a statistically meaningful way.

 

[aiminghigher1]

If you are thinking MCAT comparisons are difficult, you should definitely not even consider GPA comparisons.

Let's illustrate a few of the problems with GPA comparison:

• Different schools have different peer group qualities (beating the peer group at Harvard is harder than beating it at the #2800 college)
  
• Different grading systems in schools (e.g., some have A-, some do not)
• Different majors (some are harder than others).
  
• Different concentrations within majors (some are harder than others)
• Different classes used to fulfill the concentrations within majors (some classes are harder than others)
• Different professors used to teach the same classes (some professors may employ different grading schemes or have a different class format/requirements)
• Different times when a professor teaches a class (a professor might change his grading scheme from one semester to another)

Thus, even if a student were to take the exact same classes at the exact same school with the exact same professors (and have the exact same major) as another student, it is still really hard to meaningfully (statistically) compare GPAs if the students were to take some classes in different orders (when the grading scheme between semesters might change, or the relative strength of the peer group might be different between semesters).

The MCAT is a standardized test. You are able to compare scores among students from across the country in a statistically meaningful way.

Im just thinking that these GPA discrepancies have been present for year so ADCOMs have a frame of reference for it.

 

[gyngyn]

Im just thinking that these GPA discrepancies have been present for year so ADCOMs have a frame of reference for it.

We have a frame of reference for MCAT changes too.

 

[youmed]

Goodness, the level of neuroticism is off the charts. OP, just focus on the percentiles and you will do fine.

 

[justadream]

Im just thinking that these GPA discrepancies have been present for year so ADCOMs have a frame of reference for it.

That's not how it really works.

Is a 3.7 GPA biology major with a concentration in biochemistry at Harvard better than a CS major (systems concentration) at NC State with a GPA of 3.9?
Who knows? The comparison are extremely subjective.

On the other hand, we can confidently and meaningfully say that a 39 MCAT from 2014 is better than a 32 MCAT from 2008.

Also, think about how many majors there are and how many schools there are.

There are approximately 2800 4-year colleges in the US. Let's say that the average school has 30 different areas of academic study (majors).

2800*30 = 84,000 combinations of majors and schools. We have not even gotten into minors, concentrations within majors, different professors, etc.

But let's imagine a dream world in which there is only 1 school in the entire country and there are only two majors offered by the school:

Major A: History

Major B: Creative Writing

Let's say student A has a 3.9 in English while student B has a 3.8 in Creative Writing.

Ok so now the comparison seems easy, right? Except no, it isn't Because how are you going to say who is better without some outside statistically meaningful way to compare applicants? The MCAT is the only way.* If student A has a 40 MCAT while student B has a 20 MCAT, we can say student A >>> student B.

But judging whether that .1 GPA difference means anything is super hard to to.

*I guess you could use historical performance data like USMLE too but that's still a standardized score.

 

[Vain Brother]

I have ok stats i think (3.98 GPA with decent activites, more info in WAMC thread) but I just dont think I have a shot of getting into any medical school with the new MCAT. I'm pretty set on MD over DO schools, but what I am afraid of the most is if I get a mediocre score on MCAT2015, schools will still take mediocre scores on the old MCAT over me. I feel like MCAT2015 is just a huge red flag saying wow this person is hard to analyze against our older applicants so we're just gonna go with the older applicants.

There are a bunch of resources out like LizzyM and Wedge ARS for evaluating likelihood of acceptance with the old MCAT but nothing for the new one because no one knows how the grades are gonna be weighted or whatever. Anyway I did not plan on taking a gap year and would be extremely disheartened if I was forced to not out of genuine desire to increase my profile and do something substantial but because I was obligated to by the MCAT shift.

If anyone had any ideas towards how admissions will look with the new MCAT and scoring (I know the standard answer is we'll get a better idea in June when April scores are released but applications open before then and I'm the type of person to submit their application right after its released) please just let me know.

you need to take a deep breath. admissions committees will look at your percentile score on the MCAT, just like they do now with the old exam. applicants with your GPA have a >>70% success rate. do reasonably well compared to your peers and you are good

 

[efle]

If you are thinking MCAT comparisons are difficult, you should definitely not even consider GPA comparisons.

Let's illustrate a few of the problems with GPA comparison:

• Different schools have different peer group qualities (beating the peer group at Harvard is harder than beating it at the #2800 college)
  
• Different grading systems in schools (e.g., some have A-, some do not)
• Different majors (some are harder than others).
  
• Different concentrations within majors (some are harder than others)
• Different classes used to fulfill the concentrations within majors (some classes are harder than others)
• Different professors used to teach the same classes (some professors may employ different grading schemes or have a different class format/requirements)
• Different times when a professor teaches a class (a professor might change his grading scheme from one semester to another)

Thus, even if a student were to take the exact same classes at the exact same school with the exact same professors (and have the exact same major) as another student, it is still really hard to meaningfully (statistically) compare GPAs if the students were to take some classes in different orders (when the grading scheme between semesters might change, or the relative strength of the peer group might be different between semesters).

The MCAT is a standardized test. You are able to compare scores among students from across the country in a statistically meaningful way.

One more

• Even within similar peer groups rampant grade inflation at some schools (ahem Harvard) compared to others

We have a frame of reference for MCAT changes too.

As in, you can guess whether socio/psych will correlate at ~.5 like Bio/Physical does with step 1...? How could any adcoms anywhere really know what to do with the new content yet

 

[gyngyn]

How could any adcoms anywhere really know what to do with the new content yet

We will expect strong students to do well.

 

[Lucca]

I am curious how (and if) this question applies to MD/PhD programs. Certainly, the new MCAT will predict different areas of success in medical school differently than the current MCAT but it also seems to me that the nature of the test is leaning more towards the softer science and skills side. This is awesome for MD, in my opinion, but the exam may be moving away from testing the kind of hard scientific knowledge that MD/PHD programs would value.

I have already heard from several Texas programs that they will simply be looking at the percentile but not really stressing very much about it for this reason but I would like to know what others may think.

 

[gyngyn]

I am curious how (and if) this question applies to MD/PhD programs. Certainly, the new MCAT will predict different areas of success in medical school differently than the current MCAT but it also seems to me that the nature of the test is leaning more towards the softer science and skills side. This is awesome for MD, in my opinion, but the exam may be moving away from testing the kind of hard scientific knowledge that MD/PHD programs would value.

I have already heard from several Texas programs that they will simply be looking at the percentile but not really stressing very much about it for this reason but I would like to know what others may think.

I screen MD/PhD candidates with all the expectations of an MD student plus even stronger evidence of potential in research. Since we are paying these students, the standards are at least as high (including "soft" skills).

 

[ridethecliche]

Holy wowza. Just worry about doing well on the test.

 

[MedNation907]

@aiminghigher1
I'm pretty sure your original concern has been addressed, I thought I'd just post some stuff that may help you (which you may already know):

Average matriculant MCAT in 2014 was 31 = roughly 83 percentile = 508 (projected)

[2014 Averages] https://www.aamc.org/download/321494/data/factstable17.pdf
[2013 Percentile Ranks] https://www.aamc.org/students/download/361080/data/combined13.pdf.pdf
[2015 Anticipated Score Scale, page 9] https://www.aamc.org/students/download/378098/data/mcat2015scorescaleguide.pdf

Basically trying to show that a good area to hit during practice is 508-510.