PhD/PsyD I matched--and I feel burnt out, depressed, angry....

[bobdee48]

Hey all,
I matched! Going to a site that will be a great fit for me next year.

Right now though, I feel pretty burnt out. I think this is for a variety of reasons. I'm at a pretty dysfunctional prac site this year, toxic workplace culture, abusive supervisor, unable to do the type of treatment I find fulfilling, etc. I've tried to figure out how to get out of the site, but after trying to and being told/realizing it could cause problems for me, I've decided the best course of action is to just stick it out...I only have to be at the site through June. I'm trying to finish my dissertation before I leave. There's been other stressors, including my love life (single, and been unable to sustain a relationship).

But right now, I'm not really happy with who I am. I am unmotivated, often feeling depressed. I find that I feel easily overwhelmed, and when someone places a demand on me, my reaction is to feel angry.

I consider myself to be a pretty laid-back, easygoing person, so feeling this way is new and surprising to me. Can anyone else relate to this? How did you cope? Did it pass? Suggestions? I have a meditation practice that I'm trying to make sure I keep up with right now especially. I would love to take some time off to get my bearings, but that's not really an option right now.

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[OneNeuroDoctor]

I can understand and I was angry and depressed after matching several years ago. I believe it is similar to buyer's remorse. I finished my advanced practicum in April to get ready to transition to internship. Talk to your supervisor about finishing up and leaving in April. If you continue through June you may be cramped with moving and getting ready for internship.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

You probably have 4-5 months until you need to start internship, which is a nice chunk of time to get yourself back on track. Find a therapist/counselor and develop a game plan.

 

[bobdee48]

I can understand and I was angry and depressed after matching several years ago. I believe it is similar to buyer's remorse. I finished my advanced practicum in April to get ready to transition to internship. Talk to your supervisor about finishing up and leaving in April. If you continue through June you may be cramped with moving and getting ready for internship.

Thanks for the reply. I can't leave my site early, our DCT requires us to stay on until 2 weeks prior to our internship start date.

And Therapist4Change, I have an amazing therapist. I'm just not sure that's enough to overcome everything else...

 

[erg923]

Have you brought you objections/concerms regarding prac site and the abusive supervior to your DCT? Use the chain of command if you actually want results/changes, right?

 

[erg923]

What else do you do besides school? How involved are you in your community? If one isnt living for a purpose besides getting through a program/getting a degree, then i understand the melancholy.

 

[G Costanza]

Are you eating right, sleeping enough, exercising, spending time with family/friends? Get the basics in order before trying to tackle the other issues. Sounds like your mediation class could be a huge source of self care.

 

[bobdee48]

Have you brought you objections/concerns regarding prac site and the abusive supervior to your DCT? Use the chain of command if you actually want results/changes, right?

Yes, I have spoken to our DCT. I have spoken to other students who have had other negative experiences(feeling undermined, otherwise good students questioning their own competence based on my supervisor's evaluation of them). These other students have decided against talking to our DCT about it--I think because they need a letter of reference from my supervisor and don't want to "stir the pot." I spoke to our DCT, she told me to bring my concerns to him, and she would have my back if things got weird. He was very receptive to my concerns, but nothing changed. The organization is toxic, he runs the organization. I asked my DCT if I could leave the site--and she told me that she would first want to meet with him and I to mediate our relationship--a completely unappealing idea to me. There's nothing to mediate.

So anyway, after seeking input from a faculty mentor whom I trust and explaining the situation, I was told the most prudent thing to do would be just keep my head down and finish off my time at this site, even though I'm not having the experiences I expected to have, and the site is a mess. That's a depressing pattern at our school--weird stuff happens, but the general consensus is that the "keep your head down and get your degree approach" is the best way to go.

 

[erg923]

I think thats good advice if you simply have a personality conflict or generally just aren't happy there. I think its TERRIBLE advise (and potentially unethical: see below) if the supervisor is actually abusive, inappopriate, or exploitative OR if the site lacks certain elements that would be considered essential for a practcum training experience (supervision, patient hours/contact, basic resources, didactics). So, which is it?

7.01 Design of Education and Training Programs
Psychologists responsible for education and training programs take reasonable steps to ensure that the programs are designed to provide the appropriate knowledge and proper experiences, and to meet the requirements for licensure, certification or other goals for which claims are made by the program. (See also Standard 5.03, Descriptions of Workshops and Non-Degree-Granting Educational Programs.)

3.08 Exploitative Relationships
Psychologists do not exploit persons over whom they have supervisory, evaluative or other authority such as clients/patients, students, supervisees, research participants and employees. (See also Standards 3.05, Multiple Relationships; 6.04, Fees and Financial Arrangements; 6.05, Barter with Clients/Patients; 7.07, Sexual Relationships with Students and Supervisees; 10.05, Sexual Intimacies with Current Therapy Clients/Patients; 10.06, Sexual Intimacies with Relatives or Significant Others of Current Therapy Clients/Patients; 10.07, Therapy with Former Sexual Partners; and 10.08, Sexual Intimacies with Former Therapy Clients/Patients.)

 

[erg923]

And what do you mean you can't leave until 2 weeks before internship? Does your program have that authority? Have you signed a contract or something? You are doing the site a favor by even being there. My wife and I moved 4-5 weeks before my internship (took a road trip). I simply told my prac site when i was leaving (well before of course).

 

[AcronymAllergy]

And what do you mean you can't leave until 2 weeks before internship? Does your program have that authority? Have you signed a contract or something? You are doing the site a favor by even being there. My wife and I moved 4-5 weeks before my internship (took a road trip). I simply told my prac site when i was leaving (well before of course).

I'd imagine it might depend on if the prac site is paying the OP. At my program, for example, many of our clinical externships were how we got funded if we didn't work in the university clinic. Thus, leaving early not only would've been very much looked down upon, but we likely also would've had to pay back our tuition remission. Not sure if that's what's going on here, but it's possible.

To the OP: you mention that you can't take time off, but do you have any leave saved up? Maybe even just a sick day or two? That might be all you need to help "reset" and make it through June. There of course might be opportunities for reframing as well (e.g., not viewing it as putting up with the site, but rather choosing to focus on what positive aspects there might be, or on other areas of your life that you enjoy). Related to that last point, as erg and others have mentioned earlier, what're you doing outside of school? There were many times when my sanity was saved by having friends and interests far removed from psychology.

 

[bobdee48]

I think thats good advice if you simply have a personality conflict or generally just aren't happy there. I think its TERRIBLE advise (and potentially unethical: see below) if the supervisor is actually abusive, inappopriate, or exploitative OR if the site lacks certain elements that would be considered essential for a practcum training experience (supervision, patient hours/contact, basic resources, didactics). So, which is it?

I'm not sure. My supervisor is pretty narcissistic. The agency has tons of turnover, and other problems. When agency-wide problems have come to light, he avoids taking responsibility for mistakes/mismanagement, and blames the employees for problems. In supervision, I am consistently told what I am doing is wrong...and he gives me his "expert" opinion. Clinically, I haven't had the experiences I expected there. Less clinical hours than expected...while there's still absurd amounts of paperwork.

So I think this isn't just me. When I have conveyed my experience to colleagues, they say it sounds abusive. But, I have a personal history of being around narcissists, so I think it sets me off and I am more sensitive to it than others.

So from what I've written, it seems to both be a personality clash AND abusive. Is it possible it could be both? Does that make sense to you too?

My supervisor has supervised students from my university for a number of years. Our DCT characterized him as a grumpy old man--but clearly I think it's more than that.

What can I possibly do in this situation? Given the power differential , it seems like there's not much I could do. So the smartest thing seems to be to remain quiet, and keep my head down. I had heard from someone who worked with my supervisor previously that he would likely become vindictive if questioned, etc. I don't know if that's true...but it definitely made me think twice.

What do you all recommend a student do when faced with a supervisor similar to one described above?

 

[bobdee48]

And what do you mean you can't leave until 2 weeks before internship? Does your program have that authority? Have you signed a contract or something? You are doing the site a favor by even being there. My wife and I moved 4-5 weeks before my internship (took a road trip). I simply told my prac site when i was leaving (well before of course).

I did sign a contract until the end of the summer semester, yes.

 

[erg923]

I'm not sure. My supervisor is pretty narcissistic. The agency has tons of turnover, and other problems. When agency-wide problems have come to light, he avoids taking responsibility for mistakes/mismanagement, and blames the employees for problems. In supervision, I am consistently told what I am doing is wrong...and he gives me his "expert" opinion. Clinically, I haven't had the experiences I expected there. Less clinical hours than expected...while there's still absurd amounts of paperwork.

So I think this isn't just me. When I have conveyed my experience to colleagues, they say it sounds abusive. But, I have a personal history of being around narcissists, so I think it sets me off and I am more sensitive to it than others.

So from what I've written, it seems to both be a personality clash AND abusive. Is it possible it could be both? Does that make sense to you too?

My supervisor has supervised students from my university for a number of years. Our DCT characterized him as a grumpy old man--but clearly I think it's more than that.

What can I possibly do in this situation? Given the power differential , it seems like there's not much I could do. I had heard from someone who worked with my supervisor previously that he would likely become vindictive if questioned, etc. I don't know what info they're going off of, but I wouldn't want to find out.

I think what you do at this juncture is a personal decision. However, I would urge you to cite the 2 codes I cited in my post to your DCT and then probe as why this site is/should continue to be tolerated and offered to students in your program. I would be curious to hear the response. This way, you have stirred the pot with someone who actually has power (and should be out to protect you) and you have done your ethical, and I would argue, moral, duty as well.

 

[bobdee48]

I think what you do at this juncture is a personal decision. However, I would urge you to cite the 2 codes I cited in my post to your DCT and then probe as why this site is/should continue to be tolerated and offered to students in your program. I would be curious to hear the response. This way, you have stirred the pot with someone who actually has power (and should be out to protect you) and you have done your ethical, and I would argue, moral, duty as well.

I think I already made my decision--even though it frustrates me to no end. Does the ethics code define abuse? It seems like a murky area to me.

 

[erg923]

I think thats less important that citing specific instances and behaviors that you have found inappopriate or abusive coming from a professional supervisor. I would also cite, what you beleive to be, subpar training experiences. A prorgam should not be tolerant of subpar training of its students...I wouldn't think?

 

[bobdee48]

Outside of my site, my sleep has been pretty alright. Exercise and diet could be better, so I can work on that--but frankly I've found it impossible to live a balanced life in grad school. I have a learning disability, and I think the way I have managed to get through school is by focusing on the next "big deadline" after the next, which has meant I've been able to get through this without falling behind....but also that my general wellbeing has suffered.

 

[bobdee48]

I think thats less important that citing specific instances and behaviors that you have found inappopriate or abusive coming from a professional supervisor. I would also cite, what you beleive to be, subpar training experiences. A prorgam should not be tolerant of subpar training of its students...I wouldn't think?

Thanks. I'm almost certainly not going to do this--for the reasons I mentioned previously. Students in my program tend to keep their issues with the school to themselves, because the school has in the past adopted a punitive attitude towards dealing with students. So while other people have had problems with my supervisor, no one has talked much about them. A faculty member told me that by speaking out when other students have not, I might end up being on the school's radar in a negative way (i.e. being seen as outspoken, "why is he having problems when no one else has," etc.)

 

[erg923]

Outside of my site, my sleep has been pretty alright. Exercise and diet could be better, so I can work on that--but frankly I've found it impossible to live a balanced life in grad school. I have a learning disability, and I think the way I have managed to get through school is by focusing on the next "big deadline" after the next, which has meant I've been able to get through this without falling behind....but also that my general wellbeing has suffered.

Do something else. Get involved/reinvolved in church or your faith if you have one. Sign up for a 5k. Join a kickball team. Learn to play golf. Take dance lessons. Fill out your brakcet and have a green beer!

 

[erg923]

A faculty member told me that by speaking out when other students have not, I might end up being on the school's radar in a negative way (i.e. being seen as outspoken, "why is he having problems when no one else has," etc.)

I think thats terrible advice. If you have specific instances that you truely feel are inapppriate or just ****ty training, then tell them.

 

[bobdee48]

I think thats terrible advice. If you have specific instances that you truely feel are inapppriate or just ****** training, then tell them.

Alright--I agree with you. But what if I don't feel comfortable/safe enough to report that information to my school, or that it would be used in a constructive way? What then?

 

[OneNeuroDoctor]

From my knowledge, even if you have a contract, when you match with a predoctoral internship; most programs do not have you continue with your practicum through the summer. In my case, my supervisor was also an old grumpy man with a confrontational style. Many supervisors believe this is a good mentor style to increase supervisee learning. He was very happy that I matched and we made a plan of terminating with clients and finishing up paperwork to finish up in April. A new practicum student started in June, so he only was without a practicum student for one month.

The DCT may need to intervene, as it is a very difficult transition period to internship. It is best if you can move several months before internship beginning and get settled in and refreshed for a year-long supervised experience.

One option you might look into is to talk with the internship DCT as they may let you start a month or two early. This happened during my internship. One intern started early and continued through the whole year. The State where he was returning to did not require a postdoctoral year of training for licensure; he became fully licensed after completion of his internship.

Many internships are beginning in July. I don't believe they may require you to stay up to two weeks before your internship begins. You might need to take in some treats and tell him how much you have learned from his supervision. Discuss your internship and the need to have time to move and transition to internship. You need to be assertive and positive focused. The kill them with kindness approach.

These are hurdles of the doctoral degree and anxiety and depression happens during the journey. A growth process for learning. You will have supervision for another two-years, and it is not good to have power struggles with supervisors.

These experiences will help you develop supervisor skills.

 

[IT514]

I was in a very similar situation in terms of a toxic practicum during my match year. I did report the issues to my program, and left the site at the end of April. Sounds like your program isnt being very supportive and perhaps has allowed a weird culture to develop where people cant be honest for fear of stirring the pot. That sucks, its wrong, and I encourage you to stick up for yourself even if it inconveniences a few people. Looking back, in my experience, it didnt really hit me until my internship year when I realized, with the help of a really good supervisor, that I carried a lot of patterns with me to internship...the keep your head down, dont upset anyone, do what your supervisor would do thing, etc. My critical thinking was dampened because I often felt paralyzed and carried a lot of anxiety into clinical situations. Despite a lot of reassurance during my internship year that I was indeed doing very well, I felt like a complete fraud (which isnt uncommon during the course of training, but was new for me at that time). It took a good six months into my internship to feel more like myself again. Much wiser for having gone through it.

 

[erg923]

Alright--I agree with you. But what if I don't feel comfortable/safe enough to report that information to my school, or that it would be used in a constructive way? What then?

Again, this comes down to personal values, I think. Whats right is right. Whats wrong is wrong. I dont care if, ultimately, my input isn't used "constructivley." I reported the crime to the police. If the detectives dont solve it, then thats on them. I have done my part in trying to protect the public.

 

[bobdee48]

OneNeuroDoctor--thanks for the post. But with the transition to internship, there's not much I can do--it's not up to me.

I was in a very similar situation in terms of a toxic practicum during my match year. I did report the issues to my program, and left the site at the end of April. Sounds like your program isnt being very supportive and perhaps has allowed a weird culture to develop where people cant be honest for fear of stirring the pot. That sucks, its wrong, and I encourage you to stick up for yourself even if it inconveniences a few people. Looking back, in my experience, it didnt really hit me until my internship year when I realized, with the help of a really good supervisor, that I carried a lot of patterns with me to internship...the keep your head down, dont upset anyone, do what your supervisor would do thing, etc. My critical thinking was dampened because I often felt paralyzed and carried a lot of anxiety into clinical situations. Despite a lot of reassurance during my internship year that I was indeed doing very well, I felt like a complete fraud (which isnt uncommon during the course of training, but was new for me at that time). It took a good six months into my internship to feel more like myself again. Much wiser for having gone through it.

Wow--I empathize with you. You're much wiser for going through what? The bad supervisor experience? What did you gain from that experience? And could have anything you did while going through that have impacted the outcome in terms of how it impacted you? Ie. those 6 months post-internship? Did you have avenues to process the difficult supervisor percipience? Luckily I do(multiple)--so I feel like I'm often to see the situation for what it is, rather than thinking it's ME that's messed up...even though that still happens, and this still has impacted me negatively.

 

[bobdee48]

Again, this comes down to personal values, I think. Whats right is right. Whats wrong is wrong. I dont care if, ultimately, my input isn't used "constructivley." I reported the crime to the police. If the detectives dont solve it, then thats on them. I have done my part in trying to protect the public.

I think I already did this by describing the behavior I had seen at the site to my DCT without using the words abuse...I did not want to be seen as labeling the behavior, just describing it. So I think I've done my due diligence here.

 

[IT514]

I'm not sure I could have done anything differently, I was naive in some ways and it took that experience for me to learn some very valuable lessons. Not saying that this will apply to you, just sharing my experience. Theres a hellish amount of distilled pressure when you apply for internship, match, turn around to apply for post-docs (I'm neuro so had to do that), and try to finish the dissertation (yep, I know, shouldve done it earlier). Also, our first child was born during internship year, which was awesome, but of course changes life completely and I'm sure contributed to the sense of bewilderment I had that year. All that to say, you certainly arent the first person to have the post-match ****-its, you wont be the last, and it does get better especially given a good internship year, which most people, I think, have.

 

[bobdee48]

I'm not sure I could have done anything differently, I was naive in some ways and it took that experience for me to learn some very valuable lessons. Not saying that this will apply to you, just sharing my experience. Theres a hellish amount of distilled pressure when you apply for internship, match, turn around to apply for post-docs (I'm neuro so had to do that), and try to finish the dissertation (yep, I know, shouldve done it earlier). Also, our first child was born during internship year, which was awesome, but of course changes life completely and I'm sure contributed to the sense of bewilderment I had that year. All that to say, you certainly arent the first person to have the post-match ****-its, you wont be the last, and it does get better especially given a good internship year, which most people, I think, have.

Thanks. I feel very confident about the supervisors at my internship site--I was looking for a supportive, warm, kind environment--and I matched to place that really seems to have that present. I couldn't be more thrilled about that.

What got you out of your prac at the end of April? If you don't feel comfortable posting that here, feel free to PM me.

 

[IT514]

I gave one months notice and said I would be leaving. I dont think the supervisor cared that much. The site didnt rely on me for labor (not saying they didnt try...) so that wasnt an issue. I think it was a somewhat quiet understanding that we didnt like each other very much. I also set the precedent early on with my university that this site had problems, and they were supportive of me leaving when it was time.