I need advice

[Fjellrev]

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[DrMikeP]

Do you want to practice in the US or elsewhere? US citizenship status? Are you interested in going to a med school somewhere besides the US?

The suggestions could vary greatly depending on the answers!!! Also depending on the answers you may be better asking in other forums.

 

[Fjellrev]

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[DrMikeP]

Oh I guess I didn't specify that! I have a green card and I am in the process of getting a citizenship. I want to go to a med school in the US as well as practice there.

Yes, with your gpa you have a shot at both MD/DO but a weak shot at MD unless you really do well the MCAT. I know very little about the citizenship stuff so maybe someone else can advise on that.

Ok... so next you have to decide MD or DO or go for both?

MD will be less online course and retake friendly (with MD you'd be better off taking higher level sciences and making A's). DO will make it harder to get into a really competitive surgical specialty and if you at some point want to practice overseas DO may make that harder or impossible. DO will be very retake friendly and retaking OChem 1 will help your sgpa for DO. So do some reading on both.

The next huge hurdle that will decide your fate is the MCAT. 515+ and maybe you'd have a shot at MD. <510 but >504 and you would have a good shot at DO, but much less likely MD. Have you taken Biochem? It's a huge part of the MCAT! So if not find somewhere to take it as part of your study routine. With English as a second language spend some time on the CARS section as it will likely give you the most trouble.

You need to shadow physicians in the US and get a LOR. Overseas shadowing is ok, but you need that MD and/or DO rec letter!

Best of Luck

 

[Goro]

These are NOT low GPAs!! But you will need to be extra careful with the MCAT. It's been the death of many a medical career for ESL people.

I have a gpa of 3.6 and sgpa of 3.65.
I know reasons for low gpas aren't important but English is my third language so I struggled with my classes (especially the science classes) when I first started but they gradually got better as my English also improved. First of all: do I even have a chance to get into medical school with this gpa? I understand I need to get a pretty high score on the mcat.

You'll need to do this for MCAT as well. Take Biochem.
I need to take some more classes as my major did not cover all the prereqs for medical school. I need to take two physic classes, ochem 2, and chem 2, as I have taken a lot of upper level bio classes, ochem 1, and chem 1 before. The upper bio classes I got mostly A/A- with a couple of B/B+ as I took them towards the end of my college carrier and I understood more of what was said.

Some schools require a B or A in re-reqs, but this will vary from school to school. Overall, I don't see a need to repeat the course.

- I am wondering if I should retake ochem 1 since I got a c+? I got a B+ in the lab so that is maybe ok?

Most med schools do NOT accept online classes in the preq-reqs. Invest in MSAR Online to find out who does and doesn't.
- Since I cannot be in America this year (I will live in America again from July 2017) should I try to take some of the prereq classes online? Or should I wait until I move back to America and take the rest of the prereq classes fall 2017-spring 2018 as a post bach/register for another undergrad to take the classes I am missing? I don't know how most schools look at online classes.. And since I won't be done with them before after I apply that would probably count against me too..

Do NOT take the mCAT until you are 100% ready for it. Under no circumstances should you take it prior to taking physics. This is a career-deciding, high stakes exam and Adcoms do not like people who make foolish choices.
My plans for this year is:
- Take the mcat in February (already started to study), leaving me enough time to retake it if I need

Fine, but you really need to also shadow a doctor int he US, and do volunteering with American patients. The goal of US med schools is to not train clinicians for Vietnam
- Volunteer at a hospital/orphanage for children of agent orange survivors in Vietnam. Help with medical care and general care (10h/week for 6 months)
- Teach English to earn money
- Shadow at a local hospital in Vietnam as much as they'll let me

Good. Maybe my point above is moot.
I also have previous volunteer experiences in the medical field. I don't know if it counts much for medical school but I also speak 5 languages fluently.

 

[Fjellrev]

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[DrMikeP]

Thank you so much for the reply!

I took and did well in molecular cell bio that had a lot of biochem in it but I will for sure study a lot of that for the MCAT! I took a diagnostic test and I did pretty well in the CARS section so I think I will be ok after some more practice.

I am very interested in reconstructive surgery, do you happen to know if MD would be a lot better for that or if DO would be ok? I have seen online they have listed both as possible routes but maybe you know if one is more preferred than the other?

I will try to get some shadowing in the US as well but I won't be able to do much before after my application will be in, as I won't be in the US. One doctor I have been in contact with at the hospital I will be shadowing at in Vietnam is from the US - do you think that would be ok too? I mean if I can get a lor from him will that be almost as good as if I shadowed in the US, or will that be a big disadvantage for my application?

Thank you again!

Pretty well won't cut it for MD. You need to do very well on all sections! 86%ile on the sciences will be killed if you get a 50%ile on CARS and Psych/Soc. 60% of med school applicants don't make it in.

I'd still recommend biochem, as it is the largest section on the entire test and even on non-biochem sections (biology, ochem) they use molecules you see very often in biochem.

MD would be better for competitiveness for the reconstructive surgery path, but you have to understand how incredibly competitive you will need to be during med school/steps/boards to get there. It's not like getting into MD school will guarantee you a residency slot in even general surgery. You can go down the surgical specialty road with DO, but it will be more of a challenge. Be aware that many get into med school and change their mind as to what they want to specialize in.

Also, read what Goro (and others) posted here and elsewhere. He's been at this a lot longer than most of the rest of us!

 

[Fjellrev]

These are NOT low GPAs!! But you will need to be extra careful with the MCAT. It's been the death of many a medical career for ESL people.

I have a gpa of 3.6 and sgpa of 3.65.
I know reasons for low gpas aren't important but English is my third language so I struggled with my classes (especially the science classes) when I first started but they gradually got better as my English also improved. First of all: do I even have a chance to get into medical school with this gpa? I understand I need to get a pretty high score on the mcat.

You'll need to do this for MCAT as well. Take Biochem.
I need to take some more classes as my major did not cover all the prereqs for medical school. I need to take two physic classes, ochem 2, and chem 2, as I have taken a lot of upper level bio classes, ochem 1, and chem 1 before. The upper bio classes I got mostly A/A- with a couple of B/B+ as I took them towards the end of my college carrier and I understood more of what was said.

Some schools require a B or A in re-reqs, but this will vary from school to school. Overall, I don't see a need to repeat the course.

- I am wondering if I should retake ochem 1 since I got a c+? I got a B+ in the lab so that is maybe ok?

Most med schools do NOT accept online classes in the preq-reqs. Invest in MSAR Online to find out who does and doesn't.
- Since I cannot be in America this year (I will live in America again from July 2017) should I try to take some of the prereq classes online? Or should I wait until I move back to America and take the rest of the prereq classes fall 2017-spring 2018 as a post bach/register for another undergrad to take the classes I am missing? I don't know how most schools look at online classes.. And since I won't be done with them before after I apply that would probably count against me too..

Do NOT take the mCAT until you are 100% ready for it. Under no circumstances should you take it prior to taking physics. This is a career-deciding, high stakes exam and Adcoms do not like people who make foolish choices.
My plans for this year is:
- Take the mcat in February (already started to study), leaving me enough time to retake it if I need

Fine, but you really need to also shadow a doctor int he US, and do volunteering with American patients. The goal of US med schools is to not train clinicians for Vietnam
- Volunteer at a hospital/orphanage for children of agent orange survivors in Vietnam. Help with medical care and general care (10h/week for 6 months)
- Teach English to earn money
- Shadow at a local hospital in Vietnam as much as they'll let me

Good. Maybe my point above is moot.
I also have previous volunteer experiences in the medical field. I don't know if it counts much for medical school but I also speak 5 languages fluently.

Thank you so much for your reply!

I understand I have to study a lot for the MCAT, especially since English is not my first language. Taking a biochem class seems like a good idea.

I understand what you say about shadowing doctors in the US vs other countries, my only problem is that I will only be in the US for a little by before I have to send in my application to med school. Do you know how many hours would be ok? What I mean is if I manage to shadows a US doctor in the US for 30 hours would that be even remotely close to acceptable? What if I mange to shadow a US Doctor but not in the US, would that be positive for my application? I would be able to do shadowing in the US fall 2017-summer 2018 but that would be after I have submitted my application so I don't know how much that would help except maybe for the interviews.

 

[Fjellrev]

Pretty well won't cut it for MD. You need to do very well on all sections! 86%ile on the sciences will be killed if you get a 50%ile on CARS and Psych/Soc. 60% of med school applicants don't make it in.

I'd still recommend biochem, as it is the largest section on the entire test and even on non-biochem sections (biology, ochem) they use molecules you see very often in biochem.

MD would be better for competitiveness for the reconstructive surgery path, but you have to understand how incredibly competitive you will need to be during med school/steps/boards to get there. It's not like getting into MD school will guarantee you a residency slot in even general surgery. You can go down the surgical specialty road with DO, but it will be more of a challenge. Be aware that many get into med school and change their mind as to what they want to specialize in.

Also, read what Goro (and others) posted here and elsewhere. He's been at this a lot longer than most of the rest of us!

Thank you for your reply!

Yes from what everyone is saying I will take biochem!

I understand it is very competitive to get in to medical school so that is why I am asking all these questions so I can give myself the best chance of getting accepted! I am aware being in medical school is very competitive as well and a lot of hard work, but this is what I want to do so I just want to figure out how to get there. A very high mcat score seems to be one of the things that would really help me.

 

[DrMikeP]

Thank you for your reply!

Yes from what everyone is saying I will take biochem!

I understand it is very competitive to get in to medical school so that is why I am asking all these questions so I can give myself the best chance of getting accepted! I am aware being in medical school is very competitive as well and a lot of hard work, but this is what I want to do so I just want to figure out how to get there. A very high mcat score seems to be one of the things that would really help me.

Wise move on the biochem.

You are starting out on the right track in asking questions and making a plan. Think of med school like running a marathon filled with deep pits, poisonous snakes, and people throwing rocks at you along the way, all of which you must avoid to reach your goal. A good plan, preparation, and not rushing things can be the difference between success and failure. One of the worse mistakes people make is not taking the time/doing what it takes to get the best application possible.

The key with shadowing is making sure you have enough time in to understand what you are getting into and enough to get a strong recommendation letter. Some med schools also really love when people have experiences in hospitals and medical care outside the US and can speak to how that influences them in their desire to pursue medicine and will make them a better physician.

 

[Goro]

Yes, that would be good.

What I mean is if I manage to shadows a US doctor in the US for 30 hours would that be even remotely close to acceptable?


My argument against this is what US doctors will do things differently than doctors in other countries.
What if I mange to shadow a US Doctor but not in the US, would that be positive for my application?

I think that you'll just have to try an app cycle and see how it goes. It's a marathon, not a sprint and med schools aren't going anywhere.

I would be able to do shadowing in the US fall 2017-summer 2018 but that would be after I have submitted my application so I don't know how much that would help except maybe for the interviews.[/QUOTE]

 

[Fjellrev]

Yes, that would be good.

What I mean is if I manage to shadows a US doctor in the US for 30 hours would that be even remotely close to acceptable?


My argument against this is what US doctors will do things differently than doctors in other countries.
What if I mange to shadow a US Doctor but not in the US, would that be positive for my application?

I think that you'll just have to try an app cycle and see how it goes. It's a marathon, not a sprint and med schools aren't going anywhere.

I would be able to do shadowing in the US fall 2017-summer 2018 but that would be after I have submitted my application so I don't know how much that would help except maybe for the interviews.

[/QUOTE]

I understand your point. I have one more last question (for now); how should I take the rest of the prereqs I am missing? Should I enroll in separate classes at universities? Should I register for a new undergrad and just take the prereqs? I am not planning on taking any other classes than the prereqs I still need but I don't know how I would show that I've taken them since I've already graduated and have a transcript! I am really confused about this.

Thank you so much for the help!

 

[Goro]

You can take them at any accredited university in the US. You certainly don't need a new UG degree. This is what's known as post-bac (post-baccalaureate).


I understand your point. I have one more last question (for now); how should I take the rest of the prereqs I am missing? Should I enroll in separate classes at universities? Should I register for a new undergrad and just take the prereqs? I am not planning on taking any other classes than the prereqs I still need but I don't know how I would show that I've taken them since I've already graduated and have a transcript! I am really confused about this.

Thank you so much for the help![/QUOTE]

 

[Fjellrev]

You can take them at any accredited university in the US. You certainly don't need a new UG degree. This is what's known as post-bac (post-baccalaureate).]

Just to make sure I completely understand: I need to register for a post-bac to take the prereqs? Is there any requirements as to how many classes you have to take for that or would I be able to only take the classes I need? Would it be ok to take lets say one class online and then the rest at an university?

Thank you again for all your help! I am a little lost in the American education system and my parents don't know anything about it as they did not complete any education in the US.

 

[DrMikeP]

Just to make sure I completely understand: I need to register for a post-bac to take the prereqs? Is there any requirements as to how many classes you have to take for that or would I be able to only take the classes I need? Would it be ok to take lets say one class online and then the rest at an university?

Thank you again for all your help! I am a little lost in the American education system and my parents don't know anything about it as they did not complete any education in the US.

U you can register for as sec bachelor's degree seeking student. Bio might be a little easier to get the classes approves by your advisor. You don't have to finish the sec bachelor's after being accepted. It will give you priority in registration as well. My university advisor who had to sign off on my classes is the one who recommended such, as that particular school only allowed two terms as nondegree seeking. A nondegree seeking student also gets last dibs on classes and sometimes the classes fill or you get stuck with horrible times and the profs noone wants, so it's worth on paper going for the BS in Bio.

Some schools frown at online classes.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

 

[Goro]

You need to register as a non-degree seeking student.

I need to register for a post-bac to take the prereqs?

No.
Is there any requirements as to how many classes you have to take for that


Yes.
or would I be able to only take the classes I need?

I can't recommend any online coursework for a prereq.

Would it be ok to take lets say one class online and then the rest at an university?

 

[cabinbuilder]

Thank you so much for your reply!

I understand I have to study a lot for the MCAT, especially since English is not my first language. Taking a biochem class seems like a good idea.

I understand what you say about shadowing doctors in the US vs other countries, my only problem is that I will only be in the US for a little by before I have to send in my application to med school. Do you know how many hours would be ok? What I mean is if I manage to shadows a US doctor in the US for 30 hours would that be even remotely close to acceptable? What if I mange to shadow a US Doctor but not in the US, would that be positive for my application? I would be able to do shadowing in the US fall 2017-summer 2018 but that would be after I have submitted my application so I don't know how much that would help except maybe for the interviews.

Goro is an adcom at a US medical school. Heed his advice above all others.

 

[Fjellrev]

You need to register as a non-degree seeking student.

I need to register for a post-bac to take the prereqs?

No.
Is there any requirements as to how many classes you have to take for that


Yes.
or would I be able to only take the classes I need?

I can't recommend any online coursework for a prereq.

Would it be ok to take lets say one class online and then the rest at an university?

Thank you for the answers! One last question: is it very negative for an application if the applicant has not completed some prereqs but they will finish them before matriculation to med school? For example in my position if I should not take online classes, I will need to wait until fall 2017 to take the rest of the prereqs I am missing at a university but then it will be too late to put on my application for fall 2018 matriculation.

 

[Goro]

Not at all.
is it very negative for an application if the applicant has not completed some prereqs but they will finish them before matriculation to med school?

BTW, read this book:
Amazon product

 

[Fjellrev]

Not at all.
is it very negative for an application if the applicant has not completed some prereqs but they will finish them before matriculation to med school?

BTW, read this book:
Amazon product

Thank you for all your help! I will look into that book.