Identifying immunizing sites

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icekitsune

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Hey everybody,
I wanted to ask about your technique in giving shots in both subq and IM. Do you guys have a trick in identifying the deltoid muscle for IM injection or do you roughly eye the area. Same in regards to subq injection..comments would be appreciated, Thanks!

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Just know that no matter where you stick and inject the patient wont really know if you didn't hit the right spot or not so just have fun with it.
 
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Hey everybody,
I wanted to ask about your technique in giving shots in both subq and IM. Do you guys have a trick in identifying the deltoid muscle for IM injection or do you roughly eye the area. Same in regards to subq injection..comments would be appreciated, Thanks!
I assume the deltoid to be an equilateral triangle with the top being a horizontal line 1-1.5 inches below the top of the shoulder/arm. Don't know how accurate that is, but it works as far as I know.
 
My note to us:
For INTRA-MUSCLE:
Needle length can be physically at any length you have in store. For common sized patients, I do not hunt for a special size. I often use the size that is as long as possible, but I do not use all of metal length I see. I use enough of needle to get to muscle layer.

Why? Reason 1: because each human will have different muscle size.
Why? Reason 2: because each human will have different fat layer.

Well trained professional will decide how much of that metal you allow to enter the muscle of patient.

I have seen frail old senior with skin on bone, virtually no muscle mass and no fat layer. For this patient, I enter just little enough to reach muscle layer.
I have seen healthy old senior with thin fat layer and thick muscle layer. For this patient, I enter just little enough to reach muscle layer.
I have seen obese patient with thick fat layer and thick muscle layer. For this patient, I enter skin, then slowly push metal to past fat layer enough to reach muscle layer and I am slow to avoid hitting bone.
I have seen morbidly obese patient with thick fat layer. For this patient, I enter skin, then slowly push metal to past fat layer enough to reach muscle layer and I am slow to avoid hitting bone.

Our job, as a well trained professional, is to: decide how much of that metal you use to get to muscle of patient.
So, for common sized patients, I do not run around hunting for special length needle like a pharmacist I saw.
Also, don't use all the metal length into all human and hit bone like I heard of another pharmacist.
Use just enough metal length of needle to get to muscle layer.

About finding deltoid area:

Be aware that an emergency room doctor was disabled because a hospital nurse injected too high into the joint.
Be aware that another patient needed surgery because a bone chip fragment was made by excessive force.

I agree with what poster called ZELMAN wrote:
for most common sized patients, you can follow the common rule that:
".......deltoid to be an equilateral triangle
with the top being a horizontal line
1-1.5 inches below the top of the shoulder/arm............."

Then, adjust as you see super short or super tall persons because the deltoid length will be sized along with the body.

For intra-muscle, my key is to find the thickest muscle area.

Also, I beg all of us to please not use cotton ball to dry alcohol. Why?
If bandage was wrapped individually for sterile quality, cotton ball should also be wrapped.
When was the last time you saw wrapped cotton ball? Never.

Do you have sterile hand to touch the cotton ball? No.

Why do you use dirty cotton ball after sterilizing skin and before cutting patient's skin and injecting medication? To dry alcohol.

But that is non-sterile cotton ball !!! and you use that after alcohol and before cutting the skin of my kids? how outragous ! You know kids have developing immune system that are not that strong as adults

In fact, the way I learned MicroBiology taught me to treat such non-wrapped cotton ball as dirty because those balls are touched again and again by non-sterile fingers and therefore cross contamination happened.
I air dry the skin for about 30 seconds. During that time, I talk just enough information about vaccine and what to do after vaccine:

For this flu vaccine, what you get is "broken pieces of enemy" so you can practice the battle ahead of time. You are getting samples of enemy so you can practice fighting before the enemy comes or before someone coughs around you...
You may have a little sore or fever tonight and that is normal because your body is trying to practice fighting with these samples of the enemy. The fever is very often low and low fever is actually good for our body to fight. If you want to stop muscle sore or the uncomfortable fever, you can take Motrin or Advil or Ibuprofen....

After we are done with vaccine, please stay around for 15 minutes. Thank you very much.
Now, please give me 5 long deep breaths......
(I wait until after third blow out then inject. That's how the Children's Hospital inject for cancer kids, with the help of a special robot that plays with kids.....Amazing technology out there)

That's enough time for ALCOHOL to AIR DRY . Please think three times before you use that non-sterile cotton ball after sterilizing with alcohol. Thank you very much.

If you have to dry alcohol, well, then, please open a sterile bandage and use the middle sponge portion to dry alcohol. Now, that's sterile and that's good patient care. Thank you very much again. I will care more because you care.
 
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I have never seen anyone dry the alcohol with cotton. Do people really do that?

Also, how do you know when you hit muscle? I just use a 1 inch needle for all patients except a 1.5 inch needle for obese patients. I have only had a few patients big enough that I thought a 1.5 inch was required. I wouldn't use anything less than one inch, how would you know you are deep enough? What I do not go crazy over is gauge. Whatever is on hand is fine with me.
 
I've never dried alcohol with cotton either. I've always gone by the needle sizes used for IM or SC injections. Never gone below an inch with an IM. I have hit bone before but they say that's common in people without much arm mass and you just pull back a little (they have no idea you hit it). Anatomically, the deltoid should always be just below the shoulder and that's where I usually go. In some patients you can see it defined, and in others you can feel for it if you really want to (I've only done this like twice). My school patch on my lab coat is on my shoulder right about where the deltoid is, I tell patients to roll up their sleeves to that point because that's where I need access.

I do have a trick though. Treat the needle kindof like a dart. Don't try to slowly press on the skin until you break skin, go in with some *light* force so it breaks the skin on impact yet not going too hard. Going slow and breaking skin can be more painful for patients. I know some people have used something called the Z-technique where you pull the skin a little to make it tighter and then give the injection. They say it's easier for elderly patients and also might reduce bleeding. I've only done this once though and don't know many who actively use that technique. I know for non-prefilled syringes some people will draw the vaccine out of the vial with one needle and then swap needles since puncturing the vial makes it more dull. Your school should train you on giving injections when you do your immunization certification.
 
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