I'm a first-year DO student, applying to MD programs.

[SwordOfTheMorning]

I don't have anything to add to the OPs question. But I find it funny that there's so many pre-meds (like myself) commenting and giving advice. You just got your acceptances, if at all, chill.

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[zurc2014]

So you telling me that a 4.0/507/515 was not good enough for MD the first time. Yea... Im calling Bull$h!t

 

[zurc2014]

I don't have anything to add to the OPs question. But I find it funny that there's so many pre-meds (like myself) commenting and giving advice. You just got your acceptances, if at all, chill.

You don't have to be some adcom to tell this is a dumb ass question...

 

[SwordOfTheMorning]

You don't have to be some adcom to tell this is a dumb ass question...

Yet you still have to be a pre-med to act like you know everything and act like an ass.

 

[Mwooster]

I don't have anything to add to the OPs question. But I find it funny that there's so many pre-meds (like myself) commenting and giving advice. You just got your acceptances, if at all, chill.

Unfortunately, chilling is a foreign, if not entirely unheard of, concept among many in the SDN community.

 

[zurc2014]

Yet you still have to be a pre-med to act like you know everything and act like an ass.

The irony

 

[libertyyne]

So you telling me that a 4.0/507/515 was not good enough for MD the first time. Yea... Im calling Bull$h!t

OP is from california, could be Asian, those stats would not make OP super competitive. 4.0 507. The 4.0 515 would make him super competitive. Being from a friendly state makes all the difference in the world.

 

[JustaDO]

You have a very good shot for MD.

MD = Most Delusional

 

[libertyyne]

So you telling me that a 4.0/507/515 was not good enough for MD the first time. Yea... Im calling Bull$h!t

 

[gyngyn]

Thats because your at a DO school. I dont think MD schools will hold this against you as long as you make your claim.

Sent from my SM-G900V using SDN mobile

I'm at an MD school in CA.

 

[Goro]

I'm the one at the DO school. But the wise gyngyn and I think surprisingly alike

I'm at an MD school in CA.

 

[Lawpy]

View attachment 210159

@WildWing and the SDN tech guys did a good job with the Application Assistant program.

 

[libertyyne]

@WildWing and the SDN tech guys did a good job with the Application Assistant program.

Can they add a state component? Because that would be spectaculalr. BTW is there this kind of stuff for the STEPS? Curious Minds never stop working.

 

[zurc2014]

OP is from california, could be Asian, those stats would not make OP super competitive. 4.0 507. The 4.0 515 would make him super competitive. Being from a friendly state makes all the difference in the world.

True. I thought of that. I wasn't saying those stats would make OP "super competitive." Not in the least bit did I say that. I was saying that with a perfect gpa and a decent mcat (granted the op applied broadly), those stats should get you in somewhere. Maybe not an ivy school but somewhere.

 

[zurc2014]

View attachment 210159

But isn't 52% chance for MD good? That's slightly greater than half lol. Those are not terrible odds granted you apply broadly and not to lets say...CA only or top heavy.

 

[gyngyn]

BTW is there this kind of stuff for the STEPS? Curious Minds never stop working.

http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Charting-Outcomes-US-Allopathic-Seniors-2016.pdf

 

[libertyyne]

But isn't 52% chance for MD good? That's slightly greater than half lol. Those are not terrible odds granted you apply broadly and not to lets say...CA only or top heavy.

Its a coin toss. OP's came back without an acceptance.

 

[zurc2014]

OP, what schools did you apply to when you applied MD only?

 

[787593]

View attachment 210155


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

I couldn't resist! Sorry

 

[libertyyne]

http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Charting-Outcomes-US-Allopathic-Seniors-2016.pdf

Thank you, I have been reading through that all day trying to make sense of it. What is fascinating is that STEP 1 Scores of 85thish percntile is the median for Ortho Residencies. and stomething like derm is just a smidge above 250. Thats roughly a 32 on the MCAT.
http://www.usmle.org/pdfs/transcripts/USMLE_Step_Examination_Score_Interpretation_Guidelines.pdf

I suppose the populations are distinct so its hard to do an apples to apples comparison. So just to do a back of the envelope guestimate. Since matriculants have a median mcat of 31 SD of 3.4 and the top quartiles are the same. Scoring 35 and above on the MCAT would translate to scoring 245 and above on the step.

 

[Lawpy]

Can they add a state component? Because that would be spectaculalr.

Like what? I found two possible AAMC Tables per state so not sure which works best: AAMC Table A-5: Applicants to U.S. Medical Schools by In or Out-of-State Matriculation Status or Table A-20: MCAT Scores and GPAs for Matriculants to U.S. Medical Schools by State of Legal Residence, 2015-2016

EDIT: I guess it's the latter, and Table A-19 has a category for applicants too.

 

[libertyyne]

Like what? I found two possible AAMC Tables per state so not sure which works best: AAMC Table A-5: Applicants to U.S. Medical Schools by In or Out-of-State Matriculation Status or Table A-20: MCAT Scores and GPAs for Matriculants to U.S. Medical Schools by State of Legal Residence, 2015-2016

EDIT: I guess it's the latter, and Table A-19 has a category for applicants too.

I meant build it into the tool. Select a state from a drop down to give you odds based on state rather than nationwide.

this table
https://www.aamc.org/download/321498/data/factstablea18.pdf

Also building it to allow incorporation of the tables you provided above would be helpful as well!

 

[Lawpy]

I meant build it into the tool. Select a state from a drop down to give you odds based on state rather than nationwide.

Yeah, so similar to the Race category, we're comparing applicant LizzyM scores per state? So Tables A-19 and A-20 would be incorporated then. I'll check it out.

 

[libertyyne]

Yeah, so similar to the Race category, we're comparing applicant LizzyM scores per state? So Tables A-19 and A-20 would be incorporated then. I'll check it out.

So If I am a white male in the state of North Dakota Where does my LizzyM stand in comparison to applicants and matriculants in the state of north dakota.

 

[Lawpy]

So If I am a white male in the state of North Dakota Where does my LizzyM stand in comparison to applicants and matriculants in the state of north dakota.

How do we integrate both state and race data? The distribution of the two categories combined may be different from the distribution for each category.

 

[libertyyne]

How do we integrate both state and race data? The distribution of the two categories combined may be different from the distribution for each category.

You are totally right. I have to think about this. Let me get back to your tomorrow, I will dig a bit deeper.

 

[Lawpy]

You are totally right. I have to think about this. Let me get back to your tomorrow, I will dig a bit deeper.

Sorry I was a bit confused initially and I had to revisit how the SDN Application Assistant operates. It turns out that the acceptance rate calculations done for race are based on the MCAT and GPA grid from AAMC Table A-24.

The previous two tables I posted only showed the IS/OOS % per state and the average GPA and MCAT scores per state for applicants and matriculants. There isn't an MCAT and GPA grid for states like there is for race.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

why not just Score Exceptionally well on your steps

exceptionally difficult task

I should stop being a baby and just follow through

definitely. good of you to start this realization now

What alternative dimension

SDN

Ah, so I should generate a personal humanitarian crisis in the Boston area near Cambridge.

HMS is actually in Boston proper. /pedantic

 

[libertyyne]

Sorry I was a bit confused initially and I had to revisit how the SDN Application Assistant operates. It turns out that the acceptance rate calculations done for race are based on the MCAT and GPA grid from AAMC Table A-24.

The previous two tables I posted only showed the IS/OOS % per state and the average GPA and MCAT scores per state for applicants and matriculants. There isn't an MCAT and GPA grid for states like there is for race.

There is!
https://www.aamc.org/download/321500/data/factstablea19.pdf

 

[Lawpy]

There is!
https://www.aamc.org/download/321500/data/factstablea19.pdf

Right but we don't see the acceptance rates for GPA and MCAT. Just the mean + std dev MCAT and GPA per state.

 

[libertyyne]

Right but we don't see the acceptance rates for GPA and MCAT. Just the mean + std dev MCAT and GPA per state.

Wouldnt the means and the sds be enough to give a location on the chart in terms of LizzyM scores? The acceptance % data can be inferred from location on the LizzyM bell curve in the state.
But there is also this
https://www.aamc.org/download/321502/data/factstablea20.pdf
Which is the Matriculant Table!

 

[Lawpy]

Wouldnt the means and the sds be enough to give a location on the chart in terms of LizzyM scores? The acceptance % data can be inferred from location on the LizzyM bell curve in the state.
But there is also this
https://www.aamc.org/download/321502/data/factstablea20.pdf
Which is the Matriculant Table!

That's what I thought too but the SDN Application Assistant gives specific numbers of matriculants and applicants for a specific GPA and MCAT bins per tables A-23 and A-24. We can probably approximate similar numbers per state using Table A-5 but we would really have to stretch it to essentially produce a separate grid.

 

[libertyyne]

That's what I thought too but the SDN Application Assistant gives specific numbers of matriculants and applicants for a specific GPA and MCAT bind per tables A-23 and A-24. We can probably approximate similar numbers per state using Table A-5 but we would really have to stretch it to essentially produce a separate grid.

The combination of GPA MCAT is where it would get tricky. But currently the way the assistant spits out schools is misleading because it doesnt differenciate state of residence. So lots of schools that get spit out only take less than 25% OOS.

 

[Lawpy]

The combination of GPA MCAT is where it would get tricky. But currently the way the assistant spits out schools is misleading because it doesnt differenciate state of residence. So lots of schools that get spit out only take less than 25% OOS.

I don't think the school list produced by application assistant is accurate because the SDN ranking of schools + school data are outdated. I was looking mainly at the MCAT conversion and acceptance data. So i was thinking of exact acceptance % per state. But that's difficult and combining with % per race is even more so.

 

[libertyyne]

I don't think the school list produced by application assistant is accurate because the SDN ranking of schools is outdated. I was looking mainly at the MCAT conversion and acceptance data. So i was thinking of exact acceptance % per state. But that's difficult and combining with % per race is even more so.

I think giving a LizzyM score in relation to the rest of the applicant pool of the state would be useful. Just saying something along the lines of You are 10th percentile of LizzyM in your state. The problem with that data is that itisnt in grid format so you dont quite know if the person scoring the 520 has a 4.0 or a 3.0 drastically changing their LizzyM. I am thinking of a theoretical way to atleast estimate the distribution , but it is way past my bed time.

 

[Lawpy]

I think giving a LizzyM score in relation to the rest of the applicant pool of the state would be useful. Just saying something along the lines of You are 10th percentile of LizzyM in your state. The problem with that data is that itisnt in grid format so you dont quite know if the person scoring the 520 has a 4.0 or a 3.0 drastically changing their LizzyM. I am thinking of a theoretical way to atleast estimate the distribution , but it is way past my bed time.

Yeah we can create a 2D normal distribution of LizzyM scores based on mean and standard deviations for MCAT and GPA per state given by AAMC Tables A-19 and A-20. I'll see what I can do but it may take a while.

 

[Sardinia]

Thank you, I have been reading through that all day trying to make sense of it. What is fascinating is that STEP 1 Scores of 85thish percntile is the median for Ortho Residencies. and stomething like derm is just a smidge above 250. Thats roughly a 32 on the MCAT.
http://www.usmle.org/pdfs/transcripts/USMLE_Step_Examination_Score_Interpretation_Guidelines.pdf

I suppose the populations are distinct so its hard to do an apples to apples comparison. So just to do a back of the envelope guestimate. Since matriculants have a median mcat of 31 SD of 3.4 and the top quartiles are the same. Scoring 35 and above on the MCAT would translate to scoring 245 and above on the step.

Completely inaccurate comparison for multiple reasons.

 

[Dr Tony T. Chopper]

best of luck in your endeavors but this might turn out to be one of your most negatively impactful financial and academic decisions

 

[libertyyne]

Completely inaccurate comparison for multiple reasons.

Thank you, I have been reading through that all day trying to make sense of it. What is fascinating is that STEP 1 Scores of 85thish percntile is the median for Ortho Residencies. and stomething like derm is just a smidge above 250. Thats roughly a 32 on the MCAT.
http://www.usmle.org/pdfs/transcripts/USMLE_Step_Examination_Score_Interpretation_Guidelines.pdf

I suppose the populations are distinct so its hard to do an apples to apples comparison. So just to do a back of the envelope guestimate. Since matriculants have a median mcat of 31 SD of 3.4 and the top quartiles are the same. Scoring 35 and above on the MCAT would translate to scoring 245 and above on the step.

 

[Sardinia]

Thank you, I have been reading through that all day trying to make sense of it. What is fascinating is that STEP 1 Scores of 85thish percntile is the median for Ortho Residencies. and stomething like derm is just a smidge above 250. Thats roughly a 32 on the MCAT.
http://www.usmle.org/pdfs/transcripts/USMLE_Step_Examination_Score_Interpretation_Guidelines.pdf

I suppose the populations are distinct so its hard to do an apples to apples comparison. So just to do a back of the envelope guestimate. Since matriculants have a median mcat of 31 SD of 3.4 and the top quartiles are the same. Scoring 35 and above on the MCAT would translate to scoring 245 and above on the step.

Completely inaccurate comparison for multiple reasons.

 

[Turkishking]

OP should resign from medical school.

 

[gamieg]

I think the reactions on here might be decently representative of the ones you would get from many adcoms.

I'm only an accepted student this cycle so my opinion potentially won't carry that much weight, but I do think the most important thing is to be honest with yourself. deep down, why really do you think you're dissatisfied with where you are? would you really take any MD school, regardless of reputation or rotation quality, over your current school?

ultimately, I think that if applying to MD schools this cycle is something you need to do to personally get that "what if" settled in your mind, you do you. I just worry that the "what if there's something else better/easier/more prestigious out there that I could have had" mentality will prevail regardless of where you are. I hope it doesn't and that applying this cycle, no matter the outcome, will ground you.

best of luck with everything. for what it's worth, I think you've handled the criticisms here quite gracefully. they have valid points, but I can't imagine it being easy.

 

[Dustbowl12]

top 3 most ridiculously stupid threads I've seen on SDN

 

[baratheonfire]

Ah, so I should generate a personal humanitarian crisis in the Boston area near Cambridge.

Do you want to get yourself on a list??

 

[femmegoblue]

Doesnt require much, just look at his / her location.

Also pretty sure it's an incredibly competitive, top tier MD school.

 

[libertyyne]

Also pretty sure it's an incredibly competitive, top tier MD school.

I hear they are trying to diversify their class with some screw ups since having issues with court orders.

 

[libertyyne]

Do you want to get yourself on a list??

It depends if you think I am the wrong type of Asian.

 

[femmegoblue]

I hear they are trying to diversify their class with some screw ups since having issues with court orders.

Because why would they take super star, LM 80 applicants in their first application cycle when they could take someone who couldn't hack it in their first year of medical school?

 

[ankle_bearer80]

A lot of schools have free student-run clinics where you can practice treating real patients. See if there's something similar available to you. Maybe spend some time there, go through the motions of "doctoring". It might help take your mind off of the minutiae of the profession and get you refocused on what you're really working toward: treating patients. Something similar helped me at times during the premed grind. Just a thought.

that's a good idea. I'll try to get into my school's student-run clinic. You're right. at the end of the day, the two types of docs do the same thing. This is probably just a transient stage. Thanks for the reply!

Heres the truth. If you are interested in primary care, it doesnt matter and stay in DO. But you could have also been NP or PA and do primary care. If you want to do anything else, or be in a desired location or program, then swich and give yourself the best shot of getting into your desired residency and avoid all the baggage that may come with a DO degree.

Sent from my SM-G900V using SDN mobile

Thank you! this is one of the answers I wanted to hear, haha. Thanks for the reply!

 

[femmegoblue]

Thank you! this is one of the answers I wanted to hear, haha. Thanks for the reply!

This may be exactly your problem.