Impeachment

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The real question here is; Once this thing is over, will the democrats move on with life and start doing government things, or will they waste the entire rest of this term either further investigating Trump or moving on to finding ways to smear Pence? I'd like to say I'm optimistic we can finally move forward after this, but I think the last two years has shown us the priorities of the democrats in Washington.

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You have said several times violating the ICA was a crime. I don't know if it is. I was asking you, since you said it, just what kind of crime was it? A felony, misdemeanor, parking ticket, something else? If it is a crime, shouldn't it be in the federal registry with punishments outlines? I know the budget office said it was a crime, but no one has ever elaborated on it.

The ICA is part of the Congressional Budget Act of 1974 which is part of the US Code (2 USC 601-688) so it is a federal law and violating it is a crime. What kind of crime exactly?


The Constitution specifically vests Congress with the power of the purse, providing that “No Money shall be drawn from the Treasury, but in Consequence of Appropriations made by Law.” U.S. Const. art. I, § 9, cl. 7. The Constitution also vests all legislative powers in Congress and sets forth the procedures of bicameralism and presentment, through which the President may accept or veto a bill passed by both Houses of Congress, and Congress may subsequently override a presidential veto. Id., art. I, § 7, cl. 2, 3. The President is not vested with the power to ignore or amend any such duly enacted law. See Clinton v. City of New York,
524 U.S. 417, 438 (1998) (the Constitution does not authorize the President “to enact, to amend, or to repeal statutes”). Instead, he must “faithfully execute” the law as Congress enacts it. U.S. Const., art. II, § 3.

An appropriations act is a law like any other; therefore, unless Congress has enacted a law providing otherwise, the President must take care to ensure that appropriations are prudently obligated during their period of availability. See B-329092, Dec. 12, 2017 (the ICA operates on the premise that the President is required to obligate funds appropriated by Congress, unless otherwise authorized to withhold). In fact, Congress was concerned about the failure to prudently obligate according to its Congressional prerogatives when it enacted and later amended the ICA. See generally, H.R. Rep. No. 100-313, at 66–67 (1987); see also S. Rep. No. 93-688, at 75 (1974) (explaining that the objective was to assure that “the practice of reserving funds does not become a vehicle for furthering Administration policies and priorities at the expense of those decided by Congress”).



The act's basis is Constitutional law with regard to what article I establishes as Congress’ power and what article II establishes as the executive’s power. I don’t know of specific enumerated penalties, but as far as I can gather disputes of this level between fundamental branches of government are sorted out at the contempt of Congress, SCOTUS and impeachment level.
 
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Trump haters are going to hate period. This circus will end soon enough with an acquittal. Let's all hope Schiff and Pelosi move on to something else. Pence?

I really think Pelosi needs to start worrying about Sanders as her nominee. Sanders can't beat Trump in a general election.
 
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When you don't care about the facts and can't talk about the facts, all that's left are stale platitudes about haters. Reminds me of someone....








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Trump haters are going to hate period. This circus will end soon enough with an acquittal. Let's all hope Schiff and Pelosi move on to something else. Pence?

I really think Pelosi needs to start worrying about Sanders as her nominee. Sanders can't beat Trump in a general election.

You are so biased on this matter that even a genius like Dershowitz can't make you see the truth. This entire process is purely partisan and even a liberal Democrat who voted for Hillary Clinton can clearly see TDS in this so called impeachment trial.

 
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You are so biased on this matter that even a genius like Dershowitz can't make you see the truth. This entire process is purely partisan and even a liberal Democrat who voted for Hillary Clinton can clearly see TDS in this so called impeachment trial.


Unlike you, I could give two shts whether Dersh is a dem or GOP because I care more about the argument, not just my team vs your team mentality.

Dersh is going around making the exact opposite argument today than he was in 1998 when he claimed that a technical crime was not necessary for impeachment. - and that's the argument that every other Constitutional law scholar confirms. Moreover, the guy isn't even honest enough to say he was wrong back then- he just says he's "more correct" now. But really, has the US Constitution changed dramatically since 1998??? No, the only thing that's changed is the person putting money in Dershowitz the defense lawyer's pocket.

In regard to the FOX News article, see the Katyal tweet above. If there can be no quid pro quo in furtherance of an election campaign then that makes the president Louis XIV.


 
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Something amazing is happening. I just watched the end of the impeachment proceeding on CSPAN, and now they are taking callers live. The People are all in favor of acquittal! They've had about 12 callers from all over, including NY, OR, IL, PA, TX, AK, IA, FL. The People are seeing right through this sham! I have watched CSPAN in the past, and the callers have always been very liberal leaning. Oh, the tides are turning. Holy Crap! CA caller just said acquit!!!!!!!
 
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Something amazing is happening. I just watched the end of the impeachment proceeding on CSPAN, and now they are taking callers live. The People are all in favor of acquittal! They've had about 12 callers from all over, including NY, OR, IL, PA, TX, AK, IA, FL. The People are seeing right through this sham! I have watched CSPAN in the past, and the callers have always been very liberal leaning. Oh, the tides are turning. Holy Crap! CA caller just said acquit!!!!!!!

It doesn't really matter what callers on CSPAN thinks; it doesnt matter what CNN, Foxnews, or MSNBC thinks...it is still wrong for the president of the US to withold funds from an ally, in order to smear your potential opponent. Especially when said ally faces an existential threat from Russia. Presidents need to rise above this.

It doesnt matter what side you are on. This is wrong on all levels and it is antithetical to what we stand for. Every American should be able to at least agree on these facts.

Does it rise to the level of impeachment? That is where we are at...and the answer to this lies in how we each view what is acceptable. I for one do not think it is acceptable, but it is also clearly okay if you disagree.
 
Something amazing is happening. I just watched the end of the impeachment proceeding on CSPAN, and now they are taking callers live. The People are all in favor of acquittal! They've had about 12 callers from all over, including NY, OR, IL, PA, TX, AK, IA, FL. The People are seeing right through this sham! I have watched CSPAN in the past, and the callers have always been very liberal leaning. Oh, the tides are turning. Holy Crap! CA caller just said acquit!!!!!!!
Well? Did caller #9 get the concert tickets or what?
 
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It is in the public interest of the USA to investigate corruption of elected officials. That’s why Trump has been investigated since Day 1.

Biden and Hunter are clearly dirty in the Burisma affair. I did not say illegal just dirty. Trump has every right to look into the matter. But, he should not have asked Zelensky for any assistance. That was a mistake. Impeachment over it? Nope. In fact, Trump will likely get re-elected.

This trial will be over in a day or two then Vector will need to focus on the communist his party will nominate to face Donald J Trump.
 
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Trump has every right to look into the matter.

See, the thing that nobody ever told you, or trump, or the rest of his toadies is that No, he doesn't have every right.

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"It is not the case that the president has the authority to supervise the discretionary acts of all executive branch officials," said Kermit Roosevelt, a law professor at the University of Pennsylvania. "His duty is to take care that the laws are faithfully executed, not to execute them himself."

He cited an 1838 Supreme Court case in which the justices ruled that Congress can impose duties on officials and "in such cases, the duty and responsibility grow out of and are subject to the control of the law, and not to the direction of the President."

This traditional distancing has been seen as especially important for the Justice Department, since it wields significant power in deciding who to investigate and prosecute.

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This is why trump thought it was OK to obstruct justice when he asked Comey if he could stop the investigation and prosecution into Michael Flynn. And since he faced no consequences there, he decided to fabricate an investigation and involve himself personally in it.

When all the *****s were shouting "Where's Hunter?" .....they should've been shouting "Where's Barr?" since he was the one that let trump spin this whole thing out of control in the first place by forgoing the independence of the DOJ.
 
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Honest question - Who here feels it's appropriate for us to be funneling money into the Ukraine and why?

"Because congress ordered it" is not a valid response.. Why do you feel we should be financially supporting the Ukraine?
 
Honest question - Who here feels it's appropriate for us to be funneling money into the Ukraine and why?

"Because congress ordered it" is not a valid response.. Why do you feel we should be financially supporting the Ukraine?

Better question is why would we give Ukraine more money if public corruption in that country is so high that USA funding could potentially go straight into the pockets of corrupt politicians and private interests?

Look at all the money we give to the Palestinian authority and how it gets used to fund terrorism. It's insanity.
 
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@vector2 "Joe Biden and Hunter Biden were dirty, and the Democrats did everything to keep their crimes a secret, including conspiring with a fake whistleblower to impeach me. This is what we're fighting against. This is why we need to keep draining the swamp."

Which leads into the fake Russian collusion story, and the corruption at the FBI and CIA.
 
@vector2 "Joe Biden and Hunter Biden were dirty, and the Democrats did everything to keep their crimes a secret, including conspiring with a fake whistleblower to impeach me. This is what we're fighting against. This is why we need to keep draining the swamp."

Which leads into the fake Russian collusion story, and the corruption at the FBI and CIA.

The point being, even if the wild conspiracy theory that the Bidens are dirty had any merit to it, an investigation originates with the US attorneys and in the DOJ, not with potus extorting another foreign head of state over the phone and then classifying the call cause he knows how bad it looks.

Further, even if you believe the other conspiracy theory that obama personally spied on trump, are you really going to use 3rd grader "two wrongs make a right" logic to say that trump and future presidents should just keep on investigating their rivals?
 
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Trumps done a good job with this. Deflect deflect deflect. It’s no longer a discussion of what he did or did not do- now we are talking about Sleepy Joe and whether Ukraine should even get US dollars. And now apparently Trump is allowed to do whatever necessary to get himself re-elected. We really are dealing with a monarchy here and one of our major parties is in full support of it. If ever there were a need for a real legitimate 3rd party it is now.
 
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I think this is the playbook for future Presidents. Ignore all subpoenas, don't hand over any evidence, never testify. Just plain don't show up and tell them to shove it. I bet Bill Clinton could go back in time and just denied everything and never testify.
 
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The point being, even if the wild conspiracy theory that the Bidens are dirty had any merit to it, an investigation originates with the US attorneys and in the DOJ, not with potus extorting another foreign head of state over the phone and then classifying the call cause he knows how bad it looks.

Further, even if you believe the other conspiracy theory that obama personally spied on trump, are you really going to use 3rd grader "two wrongs make a right" logic to say that trump and future presidents should just keep on investigating their rivals?

So you're saying:

1) Joe Biden's likely public corruption in Ukraine doesn't matter

2) Trump is not allowed to discuss previous administration's public corruption with foreign leaders because politicians are off limits to public corruption investigations (like Hillary)

3) The fact that Obama's FBI and CIA conspired to use fraudulent FISA warrants to spy on a rival's political campaign is ok by you

4) Classifying all phone conversations with foreign leaders because deep state bureaucrats illegally leaked previous call transcripts is bad, but leaking transcripts is good, but Trump releasing the transcripts is bad.
 
I think this is the playbook for future Presidents. Ignore all subpoenas, don't hand over any evidence, never testify. Just plain don't show up and tell them to shove it. I bet Bill Clinton could go back in time and just denied everything and never testify.

I don't think the House ever tried to enforce the subpoenas through the judicial branch.

You would prefer to forget an entire third branch of government? Have you read the Constitution?
 
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Trumps done a good job with this. Deflect deflect deflect. It’s no longer a discussion of what he did or did not do- now we are talking about Sleepy Joe and whether Ukraine should even get US dollars. And now apparently Trump is allowed to do whatever necessary to get himself re-elected. We really are dealing with a monarchy here and one of our major parties is in full support of it. If ever there were a need for a real legitimate 3rd party it is now.

Yet, Obama's DOJ refused to prosecute or even try to investigate Hillary Clinton for all the blatant violations of the law she committed.
 
I don't think the House ever tried to enforce the subpoenas through the judicial branch.

You would prefer to forget an entire third branch of government? Have you read the Constitution?
I would like all three "equal" branches of the government to work together. But as we have seen with Trump Executive branch rules them all at this point. Or at least the GOP Senators are letting him do whatever he wants.
 
So you're saying:

1) Joe Biden's likely public corruption in Ukraine doesn't matter

2) Trump is not allowed to discuss previous administration's public corruption with foreign leaders because politicians are off limits to public corruption investigations (like Hillary)

3) The fact that Obama's FBI and CIA conspired to use fraudulent FISA warrants to spy on a rival's political campaign is ok by you

4) Classifying all phone conversations with foreign leaders because deep state bureaucrats illegally leaked previous call transcripts is bad, but leaking transcripts is good, but Trump releasing the transcripts is bad.

Lol, troll harder man. Every one of your lies and/or misleading statements has already been dismantled in the last 10 pages and the last thread.
 
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I would like all three "equal" branches of the government to work together. But as we have seen with Trump Executive branch rules them all at this point. Or at least the GOP Senators are letting him do whatever he wants.
I'm not aware that the House argued in court to enforce subpoenas. Can you please provide a citation if you're arguing the contrary?
 
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Lol, troll harder man. Every one of your lies and/or misleading statements has already been dismantled in the last 10 pages and the last thread.
You're on the wrong side of history. You don't have any facts on your side. Sorry, thanks for playing.
 
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@vector2 so all the money the US has dished out in foreign aid has never been used as a method of pressure on the recepients?

No, only when bad orange man is alleged to have done it is a crime worth removing from office in an election year.
 
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You're on the wrong side of history. You don't have any facts on your side. Sorry, thanks for playing.

Puhhlease. You can spit out your Orwellian up is down nonsense but the last 5 pages are my presenting the facts and blade just blathering on about communists.

The first line in the obituaries of all these lackeys is that they were privy to the first senate impeachment trial with no witnesses, and Lamar Alexander's will be the most shameful because he admits trump did something very wrong but doesnt think he or the American people should do anything about it.
 
@vector2 so all the money the US has dished out in foreign aid has never been used as a method of pressure on the recepients?

Absolutely it has. But it's done through a review from the dept of defense or the state department and various govt agencies coordinating policy. How it's not done is a unilateral order from the president to OMB, a dirty phone call, and the president sending his dirty personal lawyer to Ukraine to instigate a pressure campaign and sham investigations.

Don't forget, the Pentagon had already certified the aid and said the Ukraine had already taken corrective steps before Trump illegally put the freeze on


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"The documents reveal growing concern from Pentagon officials that the hold would violate the Impoundment Control Act, which requires the executive branch to spend money as appropriated by Congress, and that the necessary steps to avoid this result weren’t being taken. Those steps would include notifying Congress that the funding was being held or shifted elsewhere, a step that was never taken. The emails also show that no rationale was ever given for why the hold was put in place or why it was eventually lifted.

What is clear is that it all came down to the president and what he wanted; no one else appears to have supported his position. Although the pretext for the hold was that some sort of policy review was taking place, the emails make no mention of that actually happening. Instead, officials were anxiously waiting for the president to be convinced that the hold was a bad idea. And while the situation continued throughout the summer, senior defense officials were searching for legal guidance, worried they would be blamed should the hold be lifted too late to actually spend all of the money, which would violate the law. "
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Puhhlease. You can spit out your Orwellian up is down nonsense but the last 5 pages are my presenting the facts and blade just blathering on about communists.

The first line in the obituaries of all these lackeys is that they were privy to the first senate impeachment trial with no witnesses, and Lamar Alexander's will be the most shameful because he admits trump did something very wrong but doesnt think he or the American people should do anything about it.

Alexander says it was inappropriate. But it obviously doesn't rise to the illegality of using the Vice President office to funnel millions of foreign dollars to your son.
 
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Alexander says it was inappropriate. But it obviously doesn't rise to the illegality of using the Vice President office to funnel millions of foreign dollars to your son.


Pence is funneling money to his son?
 
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Alexander says it was inappropriate. But it obviously doesn't rise to the illegality of using the Vice President office to funnel millions of foreign dollars to your son.

Zzzzzzzz, Neither you nor blade nor any other trolls can even acknowledge Shokin the prosecutor exists or was a corrupt Poroshenko holdover that the entire US govt, IMF, and multiple EU countries wanted gone....let alone dispute it. You can't because then your entire conspiracy then falls apart.
 
Don't believe the Svengali Media spin. Listen with your own ears from 18:40-25.42.

 
Better question is why would we give Ukraine more money if public corruption in that country is so high that USA funding could potentially go straight into the pockets of corrupt politicians and private interests?

Look at all the money we give to the Palestinian authority and how it gets used to fund terrorism. It's insanity.
Well we did give billions of dollars to Iran. I know that was put to good use. **** let’s give billions to every 3rd world country since it’s only money and we all need to pay our fair share!
 
Howard Baker from the great state of Tennessee: "What did the President know and when did he know it?"


Lamar Alexander from the great state of Tennessee: "I definitely don't want to know what the President knew and I'll be damned if I wanna know when he knew it."
 
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Lmao, to nobody’s surprise, Bolton confirms Trump was planning his conspiracy as early as May, and of course the crooked lawyer defending him now helped him plan the whole thing back then.
 
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Lmao, to nobody’s surprise, Bolton confirms Trump was planning his conspiracy as early as May, and of course the crooked lawyer defending him now helped him plan the whole thing back then.


Wow copy-paste master not only knows how to copy articles he can make them take up the whole screen! Post something we don't already know and maybe we can be impressed troll.
 
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Wow copy-paste master not only knows how to copy articles he can make them take up the whole screen! Post something we don't already know and maybe we can be impressed troll.

The story just came out dumb@ss, but I understand why you’d like to simply keep circlejerking each other about how great trump is since every new piece of information that comes out makes him look guiltier and guiltier
 
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I think we can all agree that the Constitution would be way better if it talked more about "ye olde blowjobs"

If the Framers could have made the Constitution read like an excerpt from Penthouse Forum, I would have aced high school civics...
 
No ones said anything here about how great trump is. Its all in your delusional head. The derangement is strong in you.
 
You haven't actually contributed any news, analysis, or opinions of your own about impeachment, so why don't you take your sad little cheerleading act somewhere else while the adults are talking, thanks
 
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You haven't actually contributed any news, analysis, or opinions of your own about impeachment, so why don't you take your sad little cheerleading act somewhere else while the adults are talking, thanks


good one boomer. youve literally copied and pasted everything the washington post and new york times have said. don't act like you have any intelligent thought of your own.
 
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