Importance of Mechanisms (Orgo II) for MCAT?

[Phoenix.]

I'm a postbac taking organic chem I right now, and plan to be taking II in the spring when I take the April MCAT. They just released class schedules at my school, and according to ratemyprofessors.com, there's a professor teaching in the spring that doesn't teach any mechanisms, while another really focuses on mechanisms. For those of you that have taken orgo II and/or the MCAT, which class would you recommend?

From searching this forum it sounds like studying mechanisms in orgo II is a pain, so I was wondering how necessary it really is to study mechanisms in an orgo II class for purposes of preparing for the MCAT. Is this something that you could avoid and just learn yourself if needed? Or definitely a better idea to take the prof that focuses on it?

Thanks!

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[nick661806]

I don't remember there being any direct questions on mechanisms on the MCAT. There were a fair amount of questions dealing with reactions but none went as in depth as asking about the mechanisms.

 

[BeatrixKiddo]

I don't remember there being any direct questions on mechanisms on the MCAT. There were a fair amount of questions dealing with reactions but none went as in depth as asking about the mechanisms.

Damn that Wolf-Krissner!!

 

[spicedmanna]

I'm a postbac taking organic chem I right now, and plan to be taking II in the spring when I take the April MCAT. They just released class schedules at my school, and according to ratemyprofessors.com, there's a professor teaching in the spring that doesn't teach any mechanisms, while another really focuses on mechanisms. For those of you that have taken orgo II and/or the MCAT, which class would you recommend?

From searching this forum it sounds like studying mechanisms in orgo II is a pain, so I was wondering how necessary it really is to study mechanisms in an orgo II class for purposes of preparing for the MCAT. Is this something that you could avoid and just learn yourself if needed? Or definitely a better idea to take the prof that focuses on it?

Thanks!

I'm sure this is fairly arguable, but I think Organic Chemistry is all about mechanisms. One cannot fully appreciate the depth of the art and science of it without at least touching on the most common ones! Not studying organic mechanism is like memorizing that you need to pee more frequently when you drink too much water or coffee for an A&P class, but not knowing at least some of the major physiological processes by which this occurs. Organic becomes boring, in my mind, reduced to a set of results that require extensive memorization without mechanism. It is the easiest way to predict the product of an unfamiliar reaction based on the conditions and nature of the starting materials. For these reasons alone, I'd choose the class that focuses on mechanism. Some of the Organic II mechanisms are more intricate than the first semester ones, but since they are built on the basic mechanisms, it won't be too hard to pick it up. It's a good discipline.

The MCAT, it seems to me, does ask questions related to organic mechanism, so for that reason also, I'd take the organic class that stress that element. The usual type of passage is to present a strange organic mechanism that you might or might not have seen before and to ask you to figure out the intermediates and apply that mechanism to other starting materials, etc. Many questions will assume that you understand why certain mechanistic steps occur. If you weren't familiar with more complex type mechanisms, this kind of question/passage could be hard. On the other hand, you might get a synthesis passage that leads you through an experiment, but invariably there will be a few questions that ask you to predict the product of an unfamiliar reaction, which would precede through a common mechanism.

Every MCAT is different, so I can't very well say you should absolutely do this or that. But I do recommend understanding mechanisms, to minimize memorization of the results of reactions and to build understanding of why reactions do what they do. If you are good at these things, you might be able to pick them up without having a class focus on them. But it really seems like a bargain to take the class that offers training in it. If it were me, I'd take the one that focuses on mechanism.

Good luck!

 

[Broccoli]

I'm sure this is fairly arguable, but I think Organic Chemistry is all about mechanisms. One cannot fully appreciate the depth of the art and science of it without at least touching on the most common ones! Not studying organic mechanism is like memorizing that you need to pee more frequently when you drink too much water or coffee for an A&P class, but not knowing at least some of the major physiological processes by which this occurs. Organic becomes boring, in my mind, reduced to a set of results that require extensive memorization without mechanism. It is the easiest way to predict the product of an unfamiliar reaction based on the conditions and nature of the starting materials. For these reasons alone, I'd choose the class that focuses on mechanism. Some of the Organic II mechanisms are more intricate than the first semester ones, but since they are built on the basic mechanisms, it won't be too hard to pick it up. It's a good discipline.

The MCAT, it seems to me, does ask questions related to organic mechanism, so for that reason also, I'd take the organic class that stress that element. The usual type of passage is to present a strange organic mechanism that you might or might not have seen before and to ask you to figure out the intermediates and apply that mechanism to other starting materials, etc. Many questions will assume that you understand why certain mechanistic steps occur. If you weren't familiar with more complex type mechanisms, this kind of question/passage could be hard. On the other hand, you might get a synthesis passage that leads you through an experiment, but invariably there will be a few questions that ask you to predict the product of an unfamiliar reaction, which would precede through a common mechanism.

Every MCAT is different, so I can't very well say you should absolutely do this or that. But I do recommend understanding mechanisms, to minimize memorization of the results of reactions and to build understanding of why reactions do what they do. If you are good at these things, you might be able to pick them up without having a class focus on them. But it really seems like a bargain to take the class that offers training in it. If it were me, I'd take the one that focuses on mechanism.

Good luck!

if you were a homeless on the streets, i would give you all my loose change because that was spectacular. i completely agree with you.

 

[SStorm]

I can only speak from experience on this topic,

I took the MCATS last april and I had a passage devoted to an Organic Chem Mechanism. I did not know the specific reaction they used, in fact, I went through my Organic Chem II textbook and could not find it in there. But, if you knew the basics of carbonyl reactions and their mechanisms, you could answer the questions from the passage fine. I also had a few discretes that were much easier because I knew organic mechanistic concepts.

But at the same time, I have talked to people who had virtually no mechanistic questions. Who knows, you might be lucky and not have many of them. But I would not count on that.

So in response to your questions, yes, I do think that having a mechanistic knowledge of organic chemistry is important. In fact, I think the most important things to take away from organic chemistry (for the MCATs at least), are the naming schemes, functional groups, and the mechanisms (specifically substitution and elimination) of the basic types of reactions. I would not go ahead and memorize specific reactions, that's pointless. You will be much better off if you understand the principles behind organic chemistry.

Also, because alot of people do not understand the principles behind organic chemistry, you can gain points by answering such questions correctly. You do not need a Organic Chemists understanding of organic chemistry, just a general grounding of its rules to answer the MCATs organic chemistry questions.

Regardless, good luck.

 

[CardiacIntensivist]

I'm a postbac taking organic chem I right now, and plan to be taking II in the spring when I take the April MCAT. They just released class schedules at my school, and according to ratemyprofessors.com, there's a professor teaching in the spring that doesn't teach any mechanisms, while another really focuses on mechanisms. For those of you that have taken orgo II and/or the MCAT, which class would you recommend?

From searching this forum it sounds like studying mechanisms in orgo II is a pain, so I was wondering how necessary it really is to study mechanisms in an orgo II class for purposes of preparing for the MCAT. Is this something that you could avoid and just learn yourself if needed? Or definitely a better idea to take the prof that focuses on it?

Thanks!

I really can't see how a professor can teach Organic Chemistry without teaching mechanism. Is that particular comment a general consensus or just from one person? You have to remember that bitter students have posting power on there also.

In regards to knowing mechanisms for MCAT, you will never need to know extremely tough mechanisms. I believe you are expected to know the basic ones that are taught in Orgo I and the general mechanism for Carbonyl chemistry. I took the MCAT in April and think only 5-7 questions needed my knowledge of mechanisms.

In my opinion, I think knowing how the mechanisms work is critical to your understanding of Organic Chemistry so if those comments are true, use the professor that focuses on mechanism. You could always go the pure memorization route but everyone I have know who has done that had a terrible time remembering their own Organic knowledge.

 

[tluedeke]

My feelings are that you should work through the common reactions, be able to recognize the reactants and products, and understand what drive the reactions. Don't memorize. It is a crutch in this case. If you're uncomfortable with, just as a postulated situation, condensation reactions, then sit down some afternoon and do three or four practice problems of each condensation reaction "flavor", and recognize the patterns. They look messy, but it is not really that hard once you learn the pattern.

For example, given a reaction in a passage, you should be able to recognize "Aha! That it is an enolate attacking a carbonyl, and I know it will produce a beta-hydroxy ketone". Also, don't forget the passage will generally contain most of what you need to know to deduce answers, or at a minimum use POE to increase your chances on multiple choice answers.

 

[Doctor Dream]

My feelings are that you should work through the common reactions, be able to recognize the reactants and products, and understand what drive the reactions. Don't memorize. It is a crutch in this case. If you're uncomfortable with, just as a postulated situation, condensation reactions, then sit down some afternoon and do three or four practice problems of each condensation reaction "flavor", and recognize the patterns. They look messy, but it is not really that hard once you learn the pattern.

For example, given a reaction in a passage, you should be able to recognize "Aha! That it is an enolate attacking a carbonyl, and I know it will produce a beta-hydroxy ketone". Also, don't forget the passage will generally contain most of what you need to know to deduce answers, or at a minimum use POE to increase your chances on multiple choice answers.

Hate to be a kill joy but this thread is like 9 years old. OP is an attending now lol

 

[tluedeke]

LMFAO. When I looked at it yesterday, the web site said it had been answered an hour ago. Oh well, better late than never.