PhD/PsyD Importance of previous research experience?

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psyguyry

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Hola.

In applying to Clinical PhD programs, I'm curious how likely it might be to gain admission without any prior research experience.

My goal is clinical work but I certainly recognize the necessity of a strong research orientation within the field. I look forward to the opportunity to take part in research (ideally related to schizophrenia/schizoaffective/bipolar) as part of my clinical training. I'd prefer a PhD over a PsyD. However as a career-changer I don't have time or money to spend pursuing research pre- graduate school - I need to keep working my day-job (in a tangentially-related field.) I've had my BA in an unrelated field for 10+ years. I'm 4.0 in the psych post-bacc program I'm about to finish, have tons of solid volunteering experience on crisis lines and whatnot, and my GRE's are very strong. My letters of rec. and writing samples will be able to speak to my capacity to undertake research but still - what should I do? Is there a way to gain admission to a (funded) PhD program without prior research experience? Should I even bother applying?

I wouldn't mind a PsyD, except that [all the reasons previously mentioned somewhere on this board.]

Any insight would be much appreciated.

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No research experience, no Ph.D. It's as simple as that. There are plenty of people who were career changers (myself included), who did not have the time or money, but made it work. Also, letters of recs and writing samples cannot speak to one's capacity to do research if they've never actually done any research.
 
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This post doesn't even really make any sense. You understand the importance of research and hold research in high regard.....just not enough to actually do it. I'm confused.
 
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This is good for me to hear. I would waste my time to apply to PhD programs before accumulating research experience. Thank you.

What are some suggestions for ways in which to gain said experience while working a full-time job? By stopping my crisis line work and completing my post-bacc program I can make some time available.
 
One option would be to apply for paid Research Assistant positions and make that your full-time job for a year or two. Otherwise, cold emailing local reputable research labs and offering to volunteer for them in your free time would be the other option.

Thanks. Does the type of research I engage in matter? To clarify: if I'm unable to find a lab doing work that I'm interested in longer-term, should I just take what I can get?
 
Good to know. In addition to finding quality research opportunities, is there anything else I can do to make myself a more competitive candidate?
 
You need to get research experience and ultimately be able to thoughtfully articulate fit with a mentor/program when it comes time to apply. You're looking probably at two more years of part-time experience before you hit the minimum amount that most competitive applicants will have.

Got it. That gives me some perspective. I'm really coming to all of this from a place of ignorance in that I'm a first generation and have never really had any guidance along these lines - so I appreciate the help.
 
When you write your statements of purpose, you will need to explain how your previous research experience demonstrates a desire and capability to continue doing research in a certain area. Much like getting a job, you have to say, "I've done this before, and I want to do it some more." "I worked with PTSD patients when I volunteered on X's study, and I liked it, so let me work with you now."

Most labs ask for around 5-10 hours a week, which really isn't unmanageable. Not sure what your work schedule is, but if you're not doing a hard 9-5, you could probably take one day a week to put in from 9-2. Depending on the type of lab, they do different kinds of studies. I work in one where they run a LOT of student participants, so they're trying to pack in as many as possible, and getting RA's to do trials at all hours of the day. Absolutely possible to work 5-7 a few times a week and be highly valued for filling the slot. Ask around.

Best advice I can give is to be persistent as hell. Every lab I'm in (I've worked in 5 over the past couple years, 4 concurrently at the peak) the PI did not email me back when I emailed them. I gave it a week and emailed one of their grad students. In one instance, grad students didn't email back so I looked up an old study and emailed a former grad student who moved across the country. They'll forward your email to the PI and they'll pay attention when it comes from someone they know. I was sitting with the one I've known the longest last week, and at the end of our meeting, he said, "Crap, I missed 90 emails in the past hour." These guys are busy as hell. Don't take it personally. They're not going to get pissed off if you bug them. Know when to give up, but err on the side of being very pushy.
 
Super useful advice. I'm near a well-known research university that might have some need. Thanks.

My program is offering a 10 week research practicum with 3 hrs / week that would fit my schedule (for $525...) but the professor's interested in neuroplasticity and deviant sexual behavior - subjects that aren't really up my alley. I'm considering taking it, but what do y'all think? Would it be worth it to pay for the opportunity to do research, even if I'm not super interested in it?

Another factor for me is time: I'd like have my degree by the time I'm 40 so that I can get licensed shortly thereafter. Time is ticking, so I feel like I need to be especially strategic about the choices I make to get into a program. (I know 40 is just another age with greater psychological than practical meaning, but hey: motivation, right? ;-)
 
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My program is offering a 10 week research practicum with 3 hrs / week that would fit my schedule (for $525...) Would it be worth it to pay for the opportunity to do research, even if I'm not super interested in it?

Another factor for me is time: I'd like have my degree by the time I'm 40 so that I can get licensed shortly thereafter.

This sounds weird to me that you have to pay in order to volunteer in a lab. Will you be receiving course credit for it? Even if you are, I think there would be labs that are willing to take you as a volunteer. Also, 3 hrs/week is very low; every lab I've worked/interned at required at least 10 hrs/wk from volunteers. With 3 hrs/week, all you're going to be doing is data entry because there's no time or point in training you in anything else.

Also, why do you want to get a PhD as opposed to a masters degree? I understand that you "recognize the necessity of a strong research orientation within the field," but that doesn't warrant a 5-7 year program where 80% you will be doing research. You can appreciate research by getting training in masters programs that practices evidence based treatment and by keeping up to date with the literature in your field of practice. You would be miserable if you were getting a PhD simply because you think you "need" to or because of the "prestige." It's like training to be an olympics swimmer when you're afraid of water....
I'm just a grad student currently, so there are others on here more experienced, but as far as I understand, masters and doctoral level provider pay isn't all that discrepant. Yes, having a PhD offers you more flexibility in job type (e.g., teach, research, supervise in addition to seeing patients) but you've already stated that your goal is clinical work. If I were you, I'd think long and hard about embarking on such a long journey such as a PhD. A doctoral degree takes 4 (most likely 5-6) years + 1 year of internship + 1 (most likely more) year of postdoc unless you live in a state that doesn't require postdoc hours for licensing. You're looking at a minimum of 6 years, and more realistically 7-8 years.
 
Yes I would receive some course credit - 2 units. I have yet to follow-up with the professor, but you're probably correct in that it would mostly be data-entry and an explanation of process versus more substantial engagement with the research. Then again - it might open some doors with the PI or with other labs. Hmmm. I think I'll explore other options first.

I'm aiming for a PhD because I'm most interested in doing neuropsychological assessments, diagnosis, and treatment planning along with actual treatment administration. Forensic interests me as well, but not enough to pursue a specialty. It's beyond the scope of a masters but you're also right, a PhD might be a bit overkill - however I'd at least like the option to teach or supervise in the future, as my goals and interests are likely to change as I age. I'd rather not limit myself to masters-level work if what I already know might interest me requires a doctorate.

So given that... should I really be looking at PsyD programs? Two primary concerns there are 1.) quality of education, 2.) lack of funding opportunities. Rutgers & Baylor = quality programs. Haven't gotten beyond that.
 
The first foray(s) into research are likely going to include primarily "grunt work," such as data entry; I certainly wouldn't let this deter you, particularly early on. As you've said, it very well might open up the door more more involvement with that or other PIs down the line. Good research help, just like good help in general, can be hard to find. If you demonstrate that you're competent, responsible, and a hard worker, most folks will find ways to get you more involved if you ask.

Also, not doing research in your area is ok; I did straight cognitive psych and relationship-oriented research in undergrad, but went on to grad school in neuropsych. If nothing else, it allows you to say, "I've been exposed to the research process and I enjoy it, but I now know that these aren't the topics I personally want to study."

Given your interests in neuropsych assessment and subsequent treatment involvement, consider looking into rehab psych/rehab neuropsych-oriented programs as well, once you get to that point.

Personally, if I had the money available, I'd apply after one year's worth of research experience, but wouldn't start getting my hopes up until (as previously mentioned) the second year. Applying, in many ways, is a skill like any other, and thus can benefit from practice.
 
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Super useful advice. I'm near a well-known research university that might have some need. Thanks.

My program is offering a 10 week research practicum with 3 hrs / week that would fit my schedule (for $525...) but the professor's interested in neuroplasticity and deviant sexual behavior - subjects that aren't really up my alley. I'm considering taking it, but what do y'all think? Would it be worth it to pay for the opportunity to do research, even if I'm not super interested in it?

Another factor for me is time: I'd like have my degree by the time I'm 40 so that I can get licensed shortly thereafter. Time is ticking, so I feel like I need to be especially strategic about the choices I make to get into a program. (I know 40 is just another age with greater psychological than practical meaning, but hey: motivation, right? ;-)
Neuroplasticity ties into everything! The deviant sexual behavior might be more difficult to tie into other topics but I bet you could do it. After all, it ties into normal sexual behavior which is what everyone who isn't in the deviant category would fall under. :)
 
Just to correct a previous post, I think the "80% doing research" is a misconception for most programs, with maybe the exception of the research powerhouses. Many PhD programs are much more balanced and actually allow quite a bit of leeway either way depending on career goals and interests.
 
If you have a particularly good relationship with your letter writers, you can ask them if they know of any faculty members at the research university you mentioned who are in need of motivated RAs. Even if they don't know of any opportunities in the moment, they will likely have you in mind if one such opportunity arrives in the future.

I was also a later life career changer and didn't go to a research university. But letting faculty know at my SLA college I was looking for research experience was how I was able to make connections with the local research university. I'm now in a really great program, and actually have a few non-traditional undergrad students, one of whom is about the same age as you. He's really motivated and working his ass off - it's wonderful to see!

Go get it!
 
Thanks everyone.

I think for now my focus will be on getting research experience under my belt. Would anyone recommend continuing to take undergrad psych classes beyond the post-bacc? It almost sounds like continuing to do so might be a waste because of the heavy weight given to research experience.
 
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