IMPORTANT! New legislation for student loan forgiveness for frontline healthcare workers. Get involved!!!

[WeThereYet]

I'm not sure if everyone is aware that there is a fast-growing movement to forgive student loans for frontline healthcare workers. US congresswoman Rep Maloney of NY introduced the Student Loan Forgiveness for Frontline Health Workers Act yesterday and it is getting a lot of press. It is not 10k or 30k in debt relief like we have seen. It is complete forgiveness of debt, with no max amount, and no tax implications. Much like the PSLF program, but we get it right now. In my situation, the govt would actually be saving money because they would be paying it off now while its only ~400k, before it swells to closer to a much larger figure by the time I’m done with my training. Anyway, more information about it in the resources below.

I think it is well worth all of our time to get politically involved on this one. I know none of us have much free time normally, and COVID working even more... However, the potential financial and stress relief is almost unimaginable. Please get involved! It will not happen without our help.
- Get informed and spread the word to co-workers/friends/family.
- Contact your US congress representatives.
- Sign petitions.

- Between the 3 major petitions, there are already close to 1 million signatures. There is one specific to Rep Maloney’s bill, which has 220k signatures.​

- I unfortunately can't link to any of them, but you are all smart people and can find them if you are so inclined.​

Resources:
- Rep Maloney's press release and Rep Maloney introducing the bill (video)
- Student Loan Forgiveness for Frontline Health Workers Act (the bill)
- The Student Loan Forgiveness for Frontline Health Workers Act EXPLAINED (a decent vid from a SRNA/ICU nurse explaining the bill)
- In the news:

- A new bill would forgive the student debt of health-care workers fighting coronavirus (CNBC)​

- House bill would forgive student debt for coronavirus health workers (CBS)​

- Democrat proposes forgiving student loans for frontline health care workers (CNN)​

- and many more…. The news is literally blowing up about it right now. I love it.​

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[deleted480308]

This is bad economic policy

 

[WeThereYet]

This is bad economic policy

Going into medicine is bad economic policy

 

[deleted480308]

Going into medicine is bad economic policy

That’s not an actual defense of the premise

 

[ThoracicGuy]

I'm not sure if everyone is aware that there is a fast-growing movement to forgive student loans for frontline healthcare workers. US congresswoman Rep Maloney of NY introduced the Student Loan Forgiveness for Frontline Health Workers Act yesterday and it is getting a lot of press. It is not 10k or 30k in debt relief like we have seen. It is complete forgiveness of debt, with no max amount, and no tax implications. Much like the PSLF program, but we get it right now. In my situation, the govt would actually be saving money because they would be paying it off now while its only ~400k, before it swells to closer to a much larger figure by the time I’m done with my training. Anyway, more information about it in the resources below.

I think it is well worth all of our time to get politically involved on this one. I know none of us have much free time normally, and COVID working even more... However, the potential financial and stress relief is almost unimaginable. Please get involved! It will not happen without our help.
- Get informed and spread the word to co-workers/friends/family.
- Contact your US congress representatives.
- Sign petitions.

- Between the 3 major petitions, there are already close to 1 million signatures. There is one specific to Rep Maloney’s bill, which has 220k signatures.​

- I unfortunately can't link to any of them, but you are all smart people and can find them if you are so inclined.​

Resources:
- Rep Maloney's press release and Rep Maloney introducing the bill (video)
- Student Loan Forgiveness for Frontline Health Workers Act (the bill)
- The Student Loan Forgiveness for Frontline Health Workers Act EXPLAINED (a decent vid from a SRNA/ICU nurse explaining the bill)
- In the news:

- A new bill would forgive the student debt of health-care workers fighting coronavirus (CNBC)​

- House bill would forgive student debt for coronavirus health workers (CBS)​

- Democrat proposes forgiving student loans for frontline health care workers (CNN)​

- and many more…. The news is literally blowing up about it right now. I love it.​

 

[WeThereYet]

That’s not an actual defense of the premise

Wasn't meant to be one, it was an obvious fallacy. Two wrongs don't make a right. You might want to develop your premise better though because its pretty weak. More like a hollow statement at this point.

 

[ThoracicGuy]

Wasn't meant to be one, it was an obvious fallacy. Two wrongs don't make a right. You might want to develop your premise better though because its pretty weak. More like a hollow statement at this point.

Can you explain why debt forgiveness for physicians would be good economic policy? I mean for the country as a whole, not just individual people.

 

[WeThereYet]

Can you explain why debt forgiveness for physicians would be good economic policy? I mean for the country as a whole, not just individual people.

I really don't need to, thanks. The arguments have been hashed out already. I'm sure you are aware of them, and it would seem you believe they do not. I'm not here to persuade you, and it would be a waste of time to try and persuade you. I'm here to let people know that for those who think it is a good idea, and for those who want to provide tangible support to those who are serving their country, there is now legislation that does so, in my opinion.

 

[deleted480308]

I really don't need to, thanks. The arguments have been hashed out already. I'm sure you are aware of them, and it would seem you believe they do not. I'm not here to persuade you, and it would be a waste of time to try and persuade you. I'm here to let people know that for those who think it is a good idea, and for those who want to provide tangible support to those who are serving their country, there is now legislation that does so, in my opinion.

You can walk up to any hospital door in the country and offer the staff your own money. You don’t need the govt for that

 

[WeThereYet]

You can walk up to any hospital door in the country and offer the staff your own money. You don’t need the govt for that

I hope that is just the rough draft of your premise. Still needs work. Lovely conversation though.

 

[deleted480308]

I hope that is just the rough draft of your premise. Still needs work. Lovely conversation though.

Now you’re just being sarcastic which doesn’t work well for conversation.

if you think healthcare workers deserve your charity, why not actually give them charity?

 

[Spikebd]

Jubilee (biblical) - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

For the non lol-bertarians who want a historical perspective on this issue.

 

[Small Cell Carcinoma]

So my family paid out of pocket to send me to medical school. Do I get a 300k check from the government if this passes?

 

[WeThereYet]

So my family paid out of pocket to send me to medical school. Do I get a 300k check from the government if this passes?

Nope

 

[WeThereYet]

Well, for the real people out there. You have the information to get involved if you like.

Haven't been on this forum for years since I got accepted to med school. I've had no need for it, and now that I've gotten a sense of the mindset here, I'll be checking out again. Toxic place. Back to the sanctuary of work and back to the books. Stay safe.

 

[ThoracicGuy]

I really don't need to, thanks. The arguments have been hashed out already. I'm sure you are aware of them, and it would seem you believe they do not. I'm not here to persuade you, and it would be a waste of time to try and persuade you. I'm here to let people know that for those who think it is a good idea, and for those who want to provide tangible support to those who are serving their country, there is now legislation that does so, in my opinion.

Why should doctors get their loans forgiven with this when they have the resources to repay their loans without too much problem as a profession?

This is money that you made a promise to pay back. Why should all the other taxpayers pay for your loan, most of which have a much lower salary than you will as an attending?

This is a bad idea.

 

[Small Cell Carcinoma]

Nope

Well I for one see a big problem with that. Hence the reason this shouldn't and almost certainly won't pass only any level.

 

[Small Cell Carcinoma]

Well, for the real people out there. You have the information to get involved if you like.

Haven't been on this forum for years since I got accepted to med school. I've had no need for it, and now that I've gotten a sense of the mindset here, I'll be checking out again. Toxic place. Back to the sanctuary of work and back to the books. Stay safe.

It is only toxic because it's not what you want to hear. But see you later. If an open conversation about a clearly unfair and controversial proposition is enough to trigger you, then maybe online forums aren't your thing. Enjoy your safe space (or "sanctuary of work" as you call it)

 

[ThoracicGuy]

Well, for the real people out there. You have the information to get involved if you like.

Haven't been on this forum for years since I got accepted to med school. I've had no need for it, and now that I've gotten a sense of the mindset here, I'll be checking out again. Toxic place. Back to the sanctuary of work and back to the books. Stay safe.

 

[Mass Effect]

Well I for one see a big problem with that. Hence the reason this shouldn't and almost certainly won't pass only any level.

I'm not going to comment on whether or not these loans should be forgiven because I see both sides of it, but your comment doesn't make sense. The reason for the forgiveness would be for FRONT-LINE workers, which you are not. So no, of course your loans shouldn't be forgiven due to COVID. And neither should mine because I'm not front-line either.

As for the people on the front lines who may have had their school paid, no of course they shouldn't get a check for 300K. If you accept the premise of what they're asking for (and again, I'm conflicted so I'm not advocating that it's right), they're equating themselves to soldiers. Did the GI bill make it so anyone choosing not to go to college or anyone getting a scholarship to college got free money from the government? Of course not. And this wouldn't either. What they want is something similar to the GI bill for residents, which would retroactively pay for their med school.

 

[Spikebd]

Nobody should make any plans around any sort of debt forgiveness for doctors. I understand the self-righteous among us who are far more noble than I.

I do think PSLF will be here to stay. Tied to that, the US healthcare system will rapidly progress to a nationalized health care system within a lot of our working careers. Most people will get PA/NP level care. Private practices will continue to disappear. Most of us will be employed. Maybe a few flagship cancer centers will be nice, but most hospitals will look like they come from a scene from the movie “Joker.” The voting demographics have forever changed and the United States will continue its decline under leadership from the far left.

 

[yeasports]

The GI bill is usually earned after 2 years of active duty. If residents approach 2 years of service with this pandemic I think it could be considered especially if you are at a VA hospital. I also think if you did 2 months of covid front line and then join the military you could get timed served so to speak. 24 months -2 months served = only 22 months of service needed. Montgomery GI Bill User's Guide

Hazard pay is around 200 a month, I think this could be reasonable especially if you are at a VA hospital. Hazardous Duty Incentive Pay

 

[Small Cell Carcinoma]

I'm not going to comment on whether or not these loans should be forgiven because I see both sides of it, but your comment doesn't make sense. The reason for the forgiveness would be for FRONT-LINE workers, which you are not. So no, of course your loans shouldn't be forgiven due to COVID. And neither should mine because I'm not front-line either.

As for the people on the front lines who may have had their school paid, no of course they shouldn't get a check for 300K. If you accept the premise of what they're asking for (and again, I'm conflicted so I'm not advocating that it's right), they're equating themselves to soldiers. Did the GI bill make it so anyone choosing not to go to college or anyone getting a scholarship to college got free money from the government? Of course not. And this wouldn't either. What they want is something similar to the GI bill for residents, which would retroactively pay for their med school.

Treating patients who are sick in a time like this is a huge of part of being a physician. Just because the country is discombobulated right now does not mean that simply doing your job is grounds for having all your debt forgiven. I’m not sure how people are arriving at this. Those who feel like the job is too dangerous for them can quit, but no one should to try to take advantage of a situation like this to support a policy that would cost taxpayers an unthinkable amount of money. Especially considering that most attendings pay off their loans within a couple years after training, this whole thing was probably drafted by a few whiny, timid millennial residents who have nothing better to do than complain that the world is unfair. Perhaps these people should be thankful they actually have a job at a time when unemployment is approaching levels seen during the Great Depression. Instead of thinking that the world owes them a favor.

Also, people really need to stop using words like “front lines” when talking about coronavirus. It is disrespectful to veterans who actually went to war and faced a real life threatening situation.

 

[Mass Effect]

Treating patients who are sick in a time like this is a huge of part of being a physician. Just because the country is discombobulated right now does not mean that simply doing your job is grounds for having all your debt forgiven. I’m not sure how people are arriving at this. Those who feel like the job is too dangerous for them can quit, but no one should to try to take advantage of a situation like this to support a policy that would cost taxpayers an unthinkable amount of money. Especially considering that most attendings pay off their loans within a couple years after training, this whole thing was probably drafted by a few whiny, timid millennial residents who have nothing better to do than complain that the world is unfair. Perhaps these people should be thankful they actually have a job at a time when unemployment is approaching levels seen during the Great Depression. Instead of thinking that the world owes them a favor.

Also, people really need to stop using words like “front lines” when talking about coronavirus. It is disrespectful to veterans who actually went to war and faced a real life threatening situation.

It's so difficult to take you seriously when you imply Coronavirus isn't a life-threatening situation. And as someone with vets in my family and close friends with two others, I don't believe it is disrespectful to vets. In fact, they talk about these docs being on the front lines. A med student telling residents that risking their physical and psychological health is what they signed up for and to quit if they don't like it is kind of ridiculous.

 

[Small Cell Carcinoma]

It's so difficult to take you seriously when you imply Coronavirus isn't a life-threatening situation. And as someone with vets in my family and close friends with two others, I don't believe it is disrespectful to vets. In fact, they talk about these docs being on the front lines. I won't even comment on a med student telling residents to quit for obvious reasons.

It's life threatening in a far different way than actually going to war is. I am sure you must see that. People as a whole have a 98% chance of surviving, a number that is only this low because it is deflated by the increased mortality seen in people aged 75+ (which describes pretty much no one treating patients and especially those supporting this policy). Not to mention survival is probably even higher since so many cases go undiagnosed. Young people are also simply not affected as severely. My parents (who are physicians) and I all tested positive for the virus a few weeks ago and it felt like close to nothing. The bug I got when I started my peds rotation was 10x worse. Doing just about anything comes with risks and all things considered I would say this seems like a pretty minor threat. You probably have a higher chance of dying in a car accident on your way to work in the next year than you do from the coronavirus. This pandemic has become what it is due to a combination of misinformation/fear-mongering, and the government's inability to accept a reasonable amount of risk. They are trying to attain a safety level that is simply not possible, hence the lockdowns and panic.

But you know what, if attending physicians who are over the age of 70 want to petition for some sort of hazard pay due to their increased chance of having a poor outcome with this, I would get behind that.

 

[Mass Effect]

It's life threatening in a far different way than actually going to war is. I am sure you must see that. People as a whole have a 98% chance of surviving, a number that is only this low because it is deflated by the increased mortality seen in people aged 75+ (which describes pretty much no one treating patients and especially those supporting this policy). Not to mention survival is probably even higher since so many cases go undiagnosed. Young people are also simply not affected as severely. My parents (who are physicians) and I all tested positive for the virus a few weeks ago and it felt like close to nothing. The bug I got when I started my peds rotation was 10x worse. Doing just about anything comes with risks and all things considered I would say this seems like a pretty minor threat. You probably have a higher chance of dying in a car accident on your way to work in the next year than you do from the coronavirus. This pandemic has become what it is due to a combination of misinformation/fear-mongering, and the government's inability to accept a reasonable amount of risk. They are trying to attain a safety level that is simply not possible, hence the lockdowns and panic.

Dude, this post seriously makes you sound so ignorant, I don't even know what to say. Maybe you need to educate yourself more on COVID. I'll help.

American hospitals have lost dozens of medical workers to the coronavirus. Here are some of their stories.

Healthcare workers on the front lines of the coronavirus pandemic are risking their lives to save others.

www.businessinsider.com

True Toll Of COVID-19 On U.S. Health Care Workers Unknown - KFF Health News

Infection-report forms rarely indicate who is a health worker or whether they survived. States and hospitals tend to keep quiet, citing patient privacy.

khn.org

In Memoriam: Healthcare Workers Who Have Died of COVID-19

More than 1000 doctors, nurses, and other healthcare professionals have died treating patients with COVID-19. Medscape wants to make sure they are not forgotten.

www.medscape.com

It's shameful how many health-care workers are dying from Covid-19 | CNN

Dr. Kent Sepkowitz writes that CDC data on the number of US healthcare workers infected by coronavirus shows the brutal consequences of the nation's inept pandemic preparation

www.cnn.com

Coronavirus is killing far more US health workers than official data suggests

Challenges in collecting data, a patchwork of state tracking systems and patients who die at home mean the true toll of Covid-19 on US healthcare workers is unknown

www.theguardian.com

A caring neighbor, a nurse who pulled double shifts: the US health workers who died from Covid-19

We are documenting the lives of every US medical worker who dies helping patients during the pandemic. These are some of the first tragic cases

www.theguardian.com

 

[myPsychAlt]

So my family paid out of pocket to send me to medical school. Do I get a 300k check from the government if this passes?

What about me who refinanced for a (much) lower interest rate and no longer has my loans under the traditional student loan system?

 

[<L>]

Nobody should make any plans around any sort of debt forgiveness for doctors. I understand the self-righteous among us who are far more noble than I.

I do think PSLF will be here to stay. Tied to that, the US healthcare system will rapidly progress to a nationalized health care system within a lot of our working careers. Most people will get PA/NP level care. Private practices will continue to disappear. Most of us will be employed. Maybe a few flagship cancer centers will be nice, but most hospitals will look like they come from a scene from the movie “Joker.” The voting demographics have forever changed and the United States will continue its decline under leadership from the far left.

Well it's not like the far left have shown themselves as great at gaining political power. You can go back to SDN posts from 15 years ago from people who definitively KNEW that we'd have a nationalized HC system by now.

As for PSLF, that program was never realistically meant for doctors and really it's an abuse of the program that MDs, particularly ones like surgical sub-specialists might have been able to use it. I crunched the numbers a couple years ago and I'd have not even come close to equaling the principal of my original loans in total payments if I was able to discharge them in 2022 at ten years. Sorry, but the government shouldn't be subsidizing the education of someone who makes over a quarter mil/year and whose payments are easily manageable.

 

[Raryn]

Dude, this post seriously makes you sound so ignorant, I don't even know what to say. Maybe you need to educate yourself more on COVID. I'll help.

The death rate in my age group is still approximately 0.1%. Most residents are around my age (or younger). But of course, if you take a large number that spans multiple thousands and divide by a thousand, you get some deaths.

Now, I'm lucky to be one of the ones who is currently carrying no federal student loan debt. But I can say this: If you offered me a $300k bonus to fly to NYC and work the wards (or the ICU) for a couple months? I'd be an idiot not to take it. The reward well outweighs the minimal risk in that scenario.

 

[<L>]

Have we actually found evidence that COVID deaths in physicians/healthcare workers are truly greater than that of the general population yet?

 

[Mass Effect]

The death rate in my age group is still approximately 0.1%. Most residents are around my age (or younger). But of course, if you take a large number that spans multiple thousands and divide by a thousand, you get some deaths.

We're talking about two different things. First of all, we don't know what the death rate is in healthcare workers because of the underreporting of healthcare workers with coronavirus. There was news before that it could be more dangerous for healthcare workers just based on repeated exposure. I don't know if that was ever confirmed. There's also the thing about the general population in your age group social distancing and staying home while some the residents in your age group are treating these patients, and some without appropriate PPE. So the rate of infection is higher. We can also talk about death til the cows come home, but a greater number end up in the ICU and while they may not die, we know there are permanent and chronic health consequences, even in those who are young.

I also don't want to discount the trauma these folks are dealing with and no amount of money can lessen the psychological impact.

Again, I'm not saying their loans should be forgiven. But I think boiling down the argument to whether or not they'll die is erroneous and simplistic. I also think that we're being single-minded by debating this bill for doctors. Under this bill, nurses, EMTs, PAs, NPs, lab techs, etc. will all have educational loans forgiven as well.

 

[Raryn]

Have we actually found evidence that COVID deaths in physicians/healthcare workers are truly greater than that of the general population yet?

I wouldn't be surprised if the raw death rate is a little higher, because we're more likely to get it. There's some theorizing regarding increased viral load leading to worse illness, but there's minimal evidence of that - I'd truly be surprised if the infection fatality rate is any higher in doctors compared to age-matched controls.

 

[deleted480308]

The GI bill is usually earned after 2 years of active duty. If residents approach 2 years of service with this pandemic I think it could be considered especially if you are at a VA hospital. I also think if you did 2 months of covid front line and then join the military you could get timed served so to speak. 24 months -2 months served = only 22 months of service needed. Montgomery GI Bill User's Guide

Hazard pay is around 200 a month, I think this could be reasonable especially if you are at a VA hospital. Hazardous Duty Incentive Pay

As someone who is both, comparing doctors to soldiers is absurd

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

I disagree with @sb247 (and some of the others who have responded) on a few things but I agree here. You can't really make the argument that this is good economic policy. There's not even any stipulations for people getting their loans repaid so that the government can get any value from this (ex. for every 50K paid off you have to work in a NYC hospital treating COVID patients for 6 months) like exists with things like PSLF, NHSC or enlisting in the military. The whole point of those programs is that you're exchanging some appreciable amount of time during which you are likely getting paid less than you would otherwise to treat some (supposedly) underserved area or military members, so the federal government gets some sort of value out of this agreement. This is not the case with this.

I mean I'd like loans forgiven as much as everyone else but from a public policy standpoint this is basically a stimulus check for....doctors and nurses? Who likely don't need stimulus checks (probably the least likely group to need stimulus money overall at this point). Also, none of them have to pay on federal student loans and they accumulate no interest until September anyway, so you're essentially getting a stimulus check from that already if you have significant federal loans.

 

[yeasports]

As someone who is both, comparing doctors to soldiers is absurd

Agreed, I wanted to demonstrate that soldiers don't earn their GI bill with 2 months of hard work and that it is only worth around 75k for 2 years, not 300k for 2 months work. I also wanted to demonstrate that soldiers in very high risk jobs only get around 200 bucks a month and not 2000k a week. I was trying to give perspective sorry if it came off wrong.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

I wouldn't be surprised if the raw death rate is a little higher, because we're more likely to get it. There's some theorizing regarding increased viral load leading to worse illness, but there's minimal evidence of that - I'd truly be surprised if the infection fatality rate is any higher in doctors compared to age-matched controls.

You know I've been wondering about this and if it were true, wouldn't family members run into the same thing? If my wife gets this but doesn't show symptoms for 10+ days (common), I'm likely to get a pretty good exposure from her.

 

[Mass Effect]

You know I've been wondering about this and if it were true, wouldn't family members run into the same thing? If my wife gets this but doesn't show symptoms for 10+ days (common), I'm likely to get a pretty good exposure from her.

One of my IM colleagues suggested the difference was repeated exposure was from different individuals. I don't think anyone really knows at this point though.

 

[gutonc]

One of my IM colleagues suggested the difference was repeated exposure was from different individuals. I don't think anyone really knows at this point though.

I just want to point out that this is more or less the answer to virtually any COVID-19 related question.

 

[Doctorows]

Treating patients who are sick in a time like this is a huge of part of being a physician. Just because the country is discombobulated right now does not mean that simply doing your job is grounds for having all your debt forgiven. I’m not sure how people are arriving at this. Those who feel like the job is too dangerous for them can quit, but no one should to try to take advantage of a situation like this to support a policy that would cost taxpayers an unthinkable amount of money. Especially considering that most attendings pay off their loans within a couple years after training, this whole thing was probably drafted by a few whiny, timid millennial residents who have nothing better to do than complain that the world is unfair. Perhaps these people should be thankful they actually have a job at a time when unemployment is approaching levels seen during the Great Depression. Instead of thinking that the world owes them a favor.

Also, people really need to stop using words like “front lines” when talking about coronavirus. It is disrespectful to veterans who actually went to war and faced a real life threatening situation.

As a psychiatry resident now working in the ICU, frequently lacking appropriate PPE, with repeated and prolonged exposures to a potentially lethal virus is absolutely NOT "simply doing my job." Exposing myself to significant psychological trauma that will undoubtedly have lasting effects and literally risking my life to treat a disease far outside my scope of practice, not to mention endangering the life of immunocompromised family at home, is absolutely NOT my job. That is NOT the job that many/most of us signed up for.

To have an ignorant privileged brat who has the luxury of sitting on their ass in the safety of their rich mommy and daddy's home while their rotations are on hold call people like us "whiny, timid millennial residents who have nothing better to do than complain that the world is unfair" is ****ing laughable.

 

[Small Cell Carcinoma]

As a psychiatry resident now working in the ICU, frequently lacking appropriate PPE, with repeated and prolonged exposures to a potentially lethal virus is absolutely NOT "simply doing my job." Exposing myself to significant psychological trauma that will undoubtedly have lasting effects and literally risking my life to treat a disease far outside my scope of practice, not to mention endangering the life of immunocompromised family at home, is absolutely NOT my job. That is NOT the job that many/most of us signed up for.

To have an ignorant privileged brat who has the luxury of sitting on their ass in the safety of their rich mommy and daddy's home while their rotations are on hold call people like us "whiny, timid millennial residents who have nothing better to do than complain that the world is unfair" is ****ing laughable.

Thanks for proving my point. This is exactly the kind of histrionic mindset I was expecting to see from someone who would support such legislation. Your job is providing patient care to others. And even if you don't think so, that is regardless of whether a new URTI is going around. I totally get going into psych to avoid the "scarier" things that exist in medicine, but at the of the day a physician has a responsibility to provide care in other sectors if circumstances dictate a need for it.

 

[deleted480308]

As a psychiatry resident now working in the ICU, frequently lacking appropriate PPE, with repeated and prolonged exposures to a potentially lethal virus is absolutely NOT "simply doing my job." Exposing myself to significant psychological trauma that will undoubtedly have lasting effects and literally risking my life to treat a disease far outside my scope of practice, not to mention endangering the life of immunocompromised family at home, is absolutely NOT my job. That is NOT the job that many/most of us signed up for.

To have an ignorant privileged brat who has the luxury of sitting on their ass in the safety of their rich mommy and daddy's home while their rotations are on hold call people like us "whiny, timid millennial residents who have nothing better to do than complain that the world is unfair" is ****ing laughable.

residents should be refusing en mass to walk into rooms without proper PPE. it just shouldn't be done

 

[Doctorows]

I totally get going into psych to avoid the "scarier" things that exist in medicine

(c) medical student

 

[deleted480308]

Thanks for proving my point. This is exactly the kind of histrionic mindset I was expecting to see from someone who would support such legislation. Your job is providing patient care to others. And even if you don't think so, that is regardless of whether a new URTI is going around. I totally get going into psych to avoid the "scarier" things that exist in medicine, but at the of the day a physician has a responsibility to provide care in other sectors if circumstances dictate a need for it.

no.... no they don't. The only thing "a physician" has a responsibility to do is the tasks they agree to do voluntarily for the rate they agree upon.

The only reason a psych resident gets stuck in the ICU during a time like this is because residents are powerless. The private psych docs certainly don't have ICU obligations

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Thanks for proving my point. This is exactly the kind of histrionic mindset I was expecting to see from someone who would support such legislation. Your job is providing patient care to others. And even if you don't think so, that is regardless of whether a new URTI is going around. I totally get going into psych to avoid the "scarier" things that exist in medicine, but at the of the day a physician has a responsibility to provide care in other sectors if circumstances dictate a need for it.

I think you mean LRTI, the U in URI means upper which this is not.

 

[SXMMD]

Why should doctors get their loans forgiven with this when they have the resources to repay their loans without too much problem as a profession?

This is money that you made a promise to pay back. Why should all the other taxpayers pay for your loan, most of which have a much lower salary than you will as an attending?

This is a bad idea.

Because they'll be inflicting torture upon me for the rest of my professional life. If I get one more damn norco for back pain request...

 

[Small Cell Carcinoma]

no.... no they don't. The only thing "a physician" has a responsibility to do is the tasks they agree to do voluntarily for the rate they agree upon.

The only reason a psych resident gets stuck in the ICU during a time like this is because residents are powerless. The private psych docs certainly don't have ICU obligations

I think it is pointless to look at this as a specialty specific thing. What this boils down to is (mainly) residents who have unpaid debt wanting a handout because they feel they should be even more insulated than they already are. Part of being a doctor in any specialty is accepting some risk of catching an infectious disease. Anyone who thinks otherwise should have rethought their career choice. And again, anyone who feels so petrified by their .1% chance of death from COVID is free to stay home. Like you said, they only have "to do the tasks they agree to do voluntarily."

 

[Spikebd]

Because they'll be inflicting torture upon me for the rest of my professional life. If I get one more damn norco for back pain request...

Hahaha

 

[Spikebd]

I think it is pointless to look at this as a specialty specific thing. What this boils down to is (mainly) residents who have unpaid debt wanting a handout because they feel they should be even more insulated than they already are. Part of being a doctor in any specialty is accepting some risk of catching an infectious disease. Anyone who thinks otherwise should have rethought their career choice. And again, anyone who feels so petrified by their .1% chance of death from COVID is free to stay home.

I don’t put a debt jubilee out of the realm of possibility. Bernie fans and the small amount of right leaning young people are far more aware of corruption between Washington DC and Wall St. Those two exist in a symbiotic relationship to extract the wealth from the USA. No different than what a “welfare queen” does.

 

[Mass Effect]

residents should be refusing en mass to walk into rooms without proper PPE. it just shouldn't be done

Won't the med students just call them whiny millennials though?

 

[<L>]

I just want to point out that this is more or less the answer to virtually any COVID-19 related question.

Embrace the uncertainty: Hazard Pay for residents, but it should be paid in Hydroxychloroquine and Remdesivir.