PhD/PsyD Inaccuracy of "No Judgment" in Therapy

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Harmos

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I was watching a program today and the therapist said to the patient something like, "Go ahead, there is no judgment here."

It got me thinking. I grew up in a subculture of the society and a family where I was often exposed to strong judgments.

Combined with my personality, I became fearful of judgments and in some ways still judge myself when nobody is present. And the majority of the time, those are negative judgments. But I also judge myself positively. I do the same for other people. And I dare project, this is true of other people, that we judge ourselves and others often.

So it must seem to a first time patient, that the idea of there being no judgment, too good to be true. I think such patient is not wrong, that therapy is not free of judgment, both on conscious level and subconscious level. Therapists who say so, are either outright lying, or do not bother saying specifically what kind of judgments they will make and what kind they won't. Or third group of therapists, which I afraid is a large enough number, are simply not aware that they are making judgments (albeit of a different sort).

In fact, it is impossible for there to be any sort of guidance provided to anybody without making a judgment about anything. The most basic judgments are about life and death, sickness, but also what's "functional" or "adaptive" or "healthy", and so on. Calling something a symptom is one way to judge it, and diagnosing someone based on those symptoms is another.

To call someone a prophet, a village idiot, schizophrenic, "person with schizophrenia", crazy, nutjob, ill, possessed, whatever, those are all judgments of different sorts, made by different people and in different times and with different intentions.

And of course judgments can be positive too. Surely it must be better to be healthy than sick, to be alive than dead, to feel better than worse, to have better "quality of life" than not, to have more ground-shattering orgasms, to adapt to workplace and succeed in work, to make more money....Or is it?

I am not claiming that all these judgments are equal or wrong, but I do claim them all these to be judgments of one sort or another.

They don't have to be conscious either. I mean many therapists aim to be nonjudgmental in many areas. But it's quite likely that they make unconscious judgments all the time, enjoying their time more with a beautiful person who pays on time and smells good, versus a person who hasn't taken a shower in a month and rarely pays on time and at every chance tries to damage the furniture in the office.

Consciously the therapist thinks: These two people are suffering, each in their own way, and I am not going to judge them just as I won't judge a person with a puss-filled infected wound as worse than a person with merely a scratch. But who is to say she won't wince or regularly feel disgust when dealing with one versus the other? Which, of course, is the reason therapists must try to work with countertransference. Not to be nonjudgmental, no, but to judge selectively and in the right way, to judge only in way it's clinically beneficial to patient's mental heal...or something like that.

Now I'm not suggesting therapists talk about their subconscious judgments to patients. I only included that for the sake of covering both kinds. But I do think therapists have to be specific about the kinds of conscious judgments they will make. Which probably requires being clear about the values of psychotherapy, the goals, and the various ways that judgments are incorporated into the enterprise. Some people apparently think that just because therapy is "secular", that mainstream therapy has no value system. I still remember a classmate once telling the class that she used to feel ashamed by people judging her (growing up Catholic) but therapy, though nonjudgment, taught her there is nothing to feel ashamed about when it comes to sex, to her body, etc. I almost wanted to tell her that her therapist did use judgement about shame, or else they would not have worked so hard to remove it. Not saying it's good or bad, just that judgments were made. And why not tell the clients that, that this thing called psychotherapy also makes all sorts of judgements.

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I think you would benefit from learning more about DBT, which outlines judgmentalness and the difference between evaluative and discriminative judgments. Though the subconscious is a not a relevant topic in DBT.

The idea is the many opinions are passed off as judgements, which at the end are not helpful in solving or accepting problems.
 
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Ive judged like crazy with clients. Were human. However, Ive often found that what I would think of as my own internal "judgments" can provide potentially sound data, from an interpersonal process (teybor) perspective, of what others' experience and reactions are to a client's interpersonal presentation, which could subsequently be perpetuating their distress. Group works great here for providing even further consensual validation if others having these judgments and reactions as well. It's up to the facilitator to pick up on and bring into the room these processes.
 
Maybe something more accurate for the therapist to say, depending on their style, would've been, "there is no ridicule here."

Agreed that psychologists are humans, too, and sometimes, the reactions we have toward/about patients (whatever term we use for them) can be useful information.
 
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We are trained to make clinical judgments about another's mental health or the absence of...and when it is the absence of, we work with the patient's goals to achieve maximum functioning, maximum satisfaction, or whatever it is that they seek to improve.

To be human is to judge. It is basic survival - we must judge/make determinations about threatening and non-threatening stimulus.

I have also never made the statements "there are no judgement here." And I agree with above, it would be better explained by saying there is no criticism/no ridicule here.

OP, as noted above, read up on DBT "non-judgmental stance;" Linehan explains this concept in a layperson's terms. To take a non-judgmental stance, just means that an individual gives her/himself a brief moment or some free space to be curious about something before reacting to it. And this is what psychologists do in regular practice, as it helps conceptualize the person's problems or whatever it is that is causing distress or concern.

P.S. Also note that if you were watching a television program with a therapist talking to an actual patient, then most ethical rules have been violated in that scenario (just by the sheer fact of that the therapeutic relationship is exposed for all to see, and there may be less security in those interactions at that point forward). Dr. Phil (the ridiculous psychotherapy wonder) is no longer a licensed clinician but an entertainer, and operates as such. He no longer abides by APA rules of conduct. So it is always less reliable to use a 'television psychologist' as your gauge. (Although, the actor playing the psychologist in The Sopranos did win some recognition by some professional psychology association - can't remember if it was some division of APA - for her seemingly accurate portrayal of what we do.)
 
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Patients don't usually disclose their dark secrets and expect the therapist to shrug it off. As others have mentioned, the difference is our behavior. It's powerful to work with a therapist who can acknowledge that you did something hurtful/hateful/irrational/stupid/etc. and simultaneously (1) accept you as you are and (2) continue to believe in and support for your efforts to change.

Therapy would lose some of its power if there were truly "no judgment." Some people have chosen to share with me terrible things that they have said or done. I'm pretty sure these patients opened up to me not because the gravity of their "wrongs" would be lost on me, but because my reaction would be something other than to reject, villify, and shame them.
 
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Even the "unconditional positive regard" endorsed by Rogers/Rogerians is not equitable to "no judgment."
 
I was watching a program today and the therapist said to the patient something like, "Go ahead, there is no judgment here."

It got me thinking. I grew up in a subculture of the society and a family where I was often exposed to strong judgments.

Combined with my personality, I became fearful of judgments and in some ways still judge myself when nobody is present. And the majority of the time, those are negative judgments. But I also judge myself positively. I do the same for other people. And I dare project, this is true of other people, that we judge ourselves and others often.

So it must seem to a first time patient, that the idea of there being no judgment, too good to be true. I think such patient is not wrong, that therapy is not free of judgment, both on conscious level and subconscious level. Therapists who say so, are either outright lying, or do not bother saying specifically what kind of judgments they will make and what kind they won't. Or third group of therapists, which I afraid is a large enough number, are simply not aware that they are making judgments (albeit of a different sort).

In fact, it is impossible for there to be any sort of guidance provided to anybody without making a judgment about anything. The most basic judgments are about life and death, sickness, but also what's "functional" or "adaptive" or "healthy", and so on. Calling something a symptom is one way to judge it, and diagnosing someone based on those symptoms is another.

To call someone a prophet, a village idiot, schizophrenic, "person with schizophrenia", crazy, nutjob, ill, possessed, whatever, those are all judgments of different sorts, made by different people and in different times and with different intentions.

And of course judgments can be positive too. Surely it must be better to be healthy than sick, to be alive than dead, to feel better than worse, to have better "quality of life" than not, to have more ground-shattering orgasms, to adapt to workplace and succeed in work, to make more money....Or is it?

I am not claiming that all these judgments are equal or wrong, but I do claim them all these to be judgments of one sort or another.

They don't have to be conscious either. I mean many therapists aim to be nonjudgmental in many areas. But it's quite likely that they make unconscious judgments all the time, enjoying their time more with a beautiful person who pays on time and smells good, versus a person who hasn't taken a shower in a month and rarely pays on time and at every chance tries to damage the furniture in the office.

Consciously the therapist thinks: These two people are suffering, each in their own way, and I am not going to judge them just as I won't judge a person with a puss-filled infected wound as worse than a person with merely a scratch. But who is to say she won't wince or regularly feel disgust when dealing with one versus the other? Which, of course, is the reason therapists must try to work with countertransference. Not to be nonjudgmental, no, but to judge selectively and in the right way, to judge only in way it's clinically beneficial to patient's mental heal...or something like that.

Now I'm not suggesting therapists talk about their subconscious judgments to patients. I only included that for the sake of covering both kinds. But I do think therapists have to be specific about the kinds of conscious judgments they will make. Which probably requires being clear about the values of psychotherapy, the goals, and the various ways that judgments are incorporated into the enterprise. Some people apparently think that just because therapy is "secular", that mainstream therapy has no value system. I still remember a classmate once telling the class that she used to feel ashamed by people judging her (growing up Catholic) but therapy, though nonjudgment, taught her there is nothing to feel ashamed about when it comes to sex, to her body, etc. I almost wanted to tell her that her therapist did use judgement about shame, or else they would not have worked so hard to remove it. Not saying it's good or bad, just that judgments were made. And why not tell the clients that, that this thing called psychotherapy also makes all sorts of judgements.

To follow up on earlier posts about DBT, the idea isn't that judgments are bad (which is in itself a judgment!) Like you said, judgments are necessary to get through life. The idea in DBT is that it is important to recognize when we have judgments, because often we take judgments as facts without thinking about them further.

That being said, I'm pretty sure that I've said "no judgments here" to patients. But if I did, it was about something very specific, not like "you can tell me anything and there is no way I will judge it."
 
I do REBT. I don't think I can endorse that statement.
I'm a fan. Watching Ellis on old videos was always entertaining (and instructive).

Even the "unconditional positive regard" endorsed by Rogers/Rogerians is not equitable to "no judgment."
I think this is often confused by lay people and trainees just starting out.

As was mentioned earlier, clinical judgment happens all of the time, it is at the core of what we do when evaluating someone.

To follow up on earlier posts about DBT, the idea isn't that judgments are bad (which is in itself a judgment!) Like you said, judgments are necessary to get through life. The idea in DBT is that it is important to recognize when we have judgments, because often we take judgments as facts without thinking about them further.
One of the more helpful things to do is bring up judgment with the patient, as it is highly unlikely that you'd be the first one to judge them about their behaviors/comments. I've found it useful to say, "It sounds like you've been told before that your behavior/reaction was [insert negative response here]."
 
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I have had numerous productive conversations with patients about the topic of making evaluative judgments and being discriminatory. The precipitant is usually the patient being their own worst critic while taking a lot of crap from others in their life.
 
One of the more helpful things to do is bring up judgment with the patient, as it is highly unlikely that you'd be the first one to judge them about their behaviors/comments. I've found it useful to say, "It sounds like you've been told before that your behavior/reaction was [insert negative response here]."
I've found patients are also worried that you're going to be aghast because they are the first people you ever met who cheated on their partner, engages in some atypical masturbatory practice, or whatever. I get the "no judgment" bit from the side of "it is REALLY not the first time I've heard that people do that."
 
I've found patients are also worried that you're going to be aghast because they are the first people you ever met who cheated on their partner, engages in some atypical masturbatory practice, or whatever. I get the "no judgment" bit from the side of "it is REALLY not the first time I've heard that people do that."

It's the ones who say, "I'll bet I'm the craziest person you've ever seen, right?" who are never even close.
 
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A friend of mine went to a GP psychotherapist once for some therapy. This guy tells my friend that since he doesn't work, he doesn't have friends, even though my friend says that he's known me for 10yrs. I have no idea what his reasoning was for this but my friend was confused. The irony was that this guy worked alone (had no receptionist/secretary or anything).
 
This "no judgement" stuff is pure bull**** based upon making the patient feel better as opposed to being better. In the old literature the function of the psychotherapist is to serve as another ego/reality testing instrument. And relate that information back in an empathic and digestible manner.
 
A non-judgmental stance is more descriptive of how I view my work with patients. I share my observations with patients and they share their perspective of themselves and others. It is their job to determine what works for them and what doesn't. Same with MI, I work with them on evaluating reality and challenge their inconsistencies. If they want to destroy their lives with unhealthy behaviors, then sure I have my own judgements on that but is it really my place to state that? Rarely. I tend to be more like the classic Dr. Phil line with "how does that work for you?" To me that is the judgement that counts. If I find the patient's behavior morally repugnant to myself and they don't, then psychotherapy usually doesn't last long anyway. Probably because my extreme negative counter-transference gets in the way of adopting a non-judgmental stance.
 
I'm a fan. Watching Ellis on old videos was always entertaining (and instructive).

Ellis told a former professor of mine to shut up during a Q&A session at the Ellis Institute in NYC several years ago. He still cites it as one of the best moments of his life.
 
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