Insurmountable debt?

[billiken10]

After doing some budgeting and getting the email telling me that my STATE school's tuition had just jumped 8 grand, it looks like I'll be falling into about $250,000 of debt, maybe more.

Is anyone else staring the shotgun barrel of debt in the face? I have ZERO money and pulling this much from loans is terrifying. What can I do? IS there anything I can do?

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[angeeeeee]

After doing some budgeting and getting the email telling me that my STATE school's tuition had just jumped 8 grand, it looks like I'll be falling into about $250,000 of debt, maybe more.

Is anyone else staring the shotgun barrel of debt in the face? I have ZERO money and pulling this much from loans is terrifying. What can I do? IS there anything I can do?

Same boat as you billiken, but UW's in state is only like $130K. I thought that was bad enough, I wouldn't want to have to face your $250K....good luck

 

[LADoc00]

After doing some budgeting and getting the email telling me that my STATE school's tuition had just jumped 8 grand, it looks like I'll be falling into about $250,000 of debt, maybe more.

Is anyone else staring the shotgun barrel of debt in the face? I have ZERO money and pulling this much from loans is terrifying. What can I do? IS there anything I can do?

What is the difference between you staring at 250K in loans and someone say in California staring at 900,000+ home loan with the housing bubble about to burst and their sorry ass high tech job in jeopardy??

I would chill out, think carefully about any purchases, not have kids yet and try to spend as little as I could on rent. Then consolidate loans now, lock in a low interest rate and strategize on gaming the system to make as much $$$ as possible.

 

[groundhog]

The bad news is that congress passed a law a few years back which makes repayment of the federal backed student loans virtually inescapable unless you are completely and permantely disabled. Even bankruptcy will not disolve the debt except for the aforementioned cause. Collection agencies have been contracted to collect on the past due loans. They use sophisticated computer programs to track and monitor the credit reports of federal student loan debtors. Once the computer spots folks who have been in arrears but appear to be in financial positions to start paying back the debt, the collectors pounce without mercy demanding payments towards attorney fees and collection fees in addition to accumulated interest and principle. If those attempts fail, the Education Dept has been granted broad authority similar to that possesed by the IRS to collect the debt (settle with the collection ageny..you do not want the Feds on your case). Ironically, it was a small minority of those most able to repay the loans (physicians, dentists, MBA's, attorneys etc) who brought down the wrath of congress on all federal student loan debtors. Horror stories like physicans living the high life while getting away with defaulting of their federal student loans was more than congress was willing to stomach.

 

[Rezdawg]

I got all of you beat, I'll be 300K in the hole.

Not worried. We are all going to be fine, dentistry is an amazing investment.

 

[Zurik5]

Yah good debt, bad debt.... It sucks that UIC is raising tuition 15% and probably will every year until you graduate... at least it's warm in Chicago

The school is in serious debt, so get ready for things to come. Our D2 class (which is nice to say..) just gained 25 international students, and imo UIC does not have the room to accommodate classes of 100+ people.

 

[grant555]

I wouldn't panic at all. There are several "needy" places that qualify for loan repayment that start out at 100K a year or more looking for new grads. If you doubt this, you can go to Yahoo hotjobs and just search "dentist."

One clinic that I would love to work at is here: www.lawndale.org At any rate, dentists earn in the top 5% of all the rest of the country. If you can't pay back the debt, few people ever could. As I understand it, students at Baylor pay back there loans over the 95% range and within the 10 yr period. Maybe this is because Texas has no state tax, but I am sure that most other schools have a good loan repayment record as well.

Borrow the money that you have to in order to concentrate on school and hone your skills as best you can. If you are clinically sound and have a good chair-side manner, patients will seek you out in droves. Take care and GOD Bless.

 

[ItsGavinC]

To the OP: You aren't alone. Many before you have done this and many after you will do.

Understand fully that you WILL be making loan payments for quite sometime, although this can vary depending on your personal situation (a spouse that works, etc).

At the worst you'll be paying back $1500+ each month over the next 30 years. That is a huge amount, but it is also doable when you realize that you ought to be bringing home 10-20k each month as your career progresses.

Also remember that the debt load is a product of the education that will lead you to a greater earning power and control over your schedule. Don't forget that throughout the process. You could choose other career routes that wouldn't have you in debt to this degree, but in doing so you would forfeit the perks of the dental profession.

 

[docshep]

have you considered military scholarships? they pay your full tuition/approved school expenses (minus room/board) and then pay you a stipend of about $1300/month to live on. you come out of school debt free, go work at a military base where you have a very cushy job, little responsibility while you adjust to being in practice, get time to really master your skills and you get a whole slew of other benefits. when you finish your contract, you're really prepared to start your own practice.
consider it. word is that those who spent time working on a base (you even kind of get to choose where you want to serve) end up with the very best training available. you see and do EVERYTHING.
some branches even have a signing bonus.

 

[45540]

I'd talk to Jeff about the military loans. He's got some pretty good thoughts on the whole thing.

 

[billiken10]

I'd talk to Jeff about the military loans. He's got some pretty good thoughts on the whole thing.

Actually I know quite a bit about the military perks and believe me, I wouldn't mind it at all, but... I think this is the first time I've admitted it on sdn. My dad is an orthodontist and I'd really like to buy his practice someday, but my fear (and my parents fear) is that those 4 years of military service between dental school and ortho school (assuming I can finish in the top 5% of my class) would be too long and he'd have to sell the practice to someone else.

I know all that is assuming a lot, but both my parents did the military scholarship thing and, as much as they liked it, they both DON'T want me to do it. I dunno. There's a lot to think about. This all can be overwhelming at times.

 

[rajkang]

I dont understand, if your parents are dentists, then why do u have to take loan and buying dad's practice sounds strange, are you not going to inherit anyway. My point is that your dad's money is yours too.

Actually I know quite a bit about the military perks and believe me, I wouldn't mind it at all, but... I think this is the first time I've admitted it on sdn. My dad is an orthodontist and I'd really like to buy his practice someday, but my fear (and my parents fear) is that those 4 years of military service between dental school and ortho school (assuming I can finish in the top 5% of my class) would be too long and he'd have to sell the practice to someone else.

I know all that is assuming a lot, but both my parents did the military scholarship thing and, as much as they liked it, they both DON'T want me to do it. I dunno. There's a lot to think about. This all can be overwhelming at times.

 

[Mustt Mustt]

I dont understand, if your parents are dentists, then why do u have to take loan and buying dad's practice sounds strange, are you not going to inherit anyway. My point is that your dad's money is yours too.

I think is different in the United States. Most students take out loans even when their parents are able to pay but they waon't ask them to pay or their parents won't volunteer to pay for them. I know few students who take out loans instead of asking his parents for money who has more than they need and make about 125K or more per year and drive benz.

 

[onetoothleft]

Actually I know quite a bit about the military perks and believe me, I wouldn't mind it at all, but... I think this is the first time I've admitted it on sdn. My dad is an orthodontist and I'd really like to buy his practice someday, but my fear (and my parents fear) is that those 4 years of military service between dental school and ortho school (assuming I can finish in the top 5% of my class) would be too long and he'd have to sell the practice to someone else.

I know all that is assuming a lot, but both my parents did the military scholarship thing and, as much as they liked it, they both DON'T want me to do it. I dunno. There's a lot to think about. This all can be overwhelming at times.

dont do it for the finances. It isn't really worth it financially unless you are going to a very expensive school like UPenn. You end up a captain which pays like 70k, so after 4 years of lost earning potential you are better off borrowing money and trying to buy your dad's practice. Only do it if you really want to be a part of the armed forces.

 

[UTDental]

Not to sound trite, but I didn't think orthodontists ever retired- they're only limited by whether they can hire staff to delegate tasks. Tell Dad to chill on selling (unless he wants out of dentistry to travel the world or something) until you have your future figured out. I've talked to many people with your kind of debt. Just don't get sucked into the "doctor" lifestyle with luxury cars and club memberships. Spend wisely and you'll tackle that debt faster than you think.

QUOTE=billiken10]Actually I know quite a bit about the military perks and believe me, I wouldn't mind it at all, but... I think this is the first time I've admitted it on sdn. My dad is an orthodontist and I'd really like to buy his practice someday, but my fear (and my parents fear) is that those 4 years of military service between dental school and ortho school (assuming I can finish in the top 5% of my class) would be too long and he'd have to sell the practice to someone else.

I know all that is assuming a lot, but both my parents did the military scholarship thing and, as much as they liked it, they both DON'T want me to do it. I dunno. There's a lot to think about. This all can be overwhelming at times.[/QUOTE]

 

[docshep]

Actually I know quite a bit about the military perks and believe me, I wouldn't mind it at all, but... I think this is the first time I've admitted it on sdn. My dad is an orthodontist and I'd really like to buy his practice someday, but my fear (and my parents fear) is that those 4 years of military service between dental school and ortho school (assuming I can finish in the top 5% of my class) would be too long and he'd have to sell the practice to someone else.

I know all that is assuming a lot, but both my parents did the military scholarship thing and, as much as they liked it, they both DON'T want me to do it. I dunno. There's a lot to think about. This all can be overwhelming at times.

[/QUOTE]


it sounds like you're heading into a pretty solid situation. if your dad makes good money and you like the way his practice is run, then you could be in for a very smooth transition. not to mention that dad will most likely be willing to help you set up a purchase agreement that benefits you as much as he can afford. if you're not interested in the military, don't stress out. should you specialize, you'll be making $250,000+/yr and it won't take you 10 years to build up to it b/c you'll be taking over dad's practice. if you keep living frugally for a couple years once out of school, you'll be out of debt before the rest of us. even those of us ahead of you.

 

[doctordental]

I have many relatives who are dentist and who run very successful practices in the SoCal area. It is geared towards Chinese immigrants and the prices are very very VERY LOW. I'm talking about 50% less than the usual price. The prices are usually comparable to the prices in Taiwan. So... what do you think about buying their practice or even working in their practice when I graduate? I mean, sure I can get a lot of hands on experience, but the pay would be ****, like 60gs. Do you recommend opening your own practice when u graduate or to work as an associate first?

 

[grant555]

Do you recommend opening your own practice when u graduate or to work as an associate first?

This is a immense decision that will largely rest on the financial circumstances of the individual. One book that I think helps answer most of the questions about such a decision is Opening A Dental Practice I would recommend reading this book at some point for all dental students even if you never wish to open a practice. Also, there is some good information available on this website if you search the dental forums. Take care and GOD Bless.

 

[ISU_Steve]

As always Grant, we can count on you to provide good sources of information. Thanks for the link.

 

[uicd2]

8K? what email?
i think you have you numbers way off!
you should be around $200K in debt, my friend. are we at the same school?

p.s., looks like you finally did get in, huh. welcome (to our misery)! =)

After doing some budgeting and getting the email telling me that my STATE school's tuition had just jumped 8 grand, it looks like I'll be falling into about $250,000 of debt, maybe more.

Is anyone else staring the shotgun barrel of debt in the face? I have ZERO money and pulling this much from loans is terrifying. What can I do? IS there anything I can do?

 

[ISU_Steve]

You end up a captain which pays like 70k, so after 4 years of lost earning potential you are better off borrowing money and trying to buy your dad's practice. Only do it if you really want to be a part of the armed forces.

One of the best posts ever.

Given the way the military treats it's people, I highly recommend (as a former service member) against the military. I would recommend you look into this: http://nhsc.bhpr.hrsa.gov/join_us/lrp.asp if you really want to make the government pay for your education. The only downside is that you can't specialize until after your service commitment is up. So I would only recommend it 100% for those who don't meet the cutoff for residency matching.

 

[kerrydds06]

the senior chief is right. the military just isn't worth it if you're in it for the money.
Personally, I'm 138G in the hole here in Buffalo.I'm done with loans, so after doing a reality check, I got my graduation present early so i can enjoy a 7 weel summer break- probably the last time i can take that much time off till i'm 50.
(BTW my present is a 45G 350 ford diesel poewr stroke dually and a 290EFS cougar, SWEET.)
Time and Happiness is more valuable to me than debt and money. I'll never be hungry again !

 

[billiken10]

The email I recieved had the final 05-06 tuition listed on a pdf file. Each year for an Illinois resident is as follows:

D1: $27,054
D2: $34,109
D3: $32,593
D4: $32,273

Thats not what was quoted on the website when I was applying. It's still not too bad, but last year I don't remember it exceeding $27,000 any of the years. I've heard too that they expect to continue to increase tuition as a result of Illinois' sweet education funding cuts. I'm not complaining, its just that I'm broke now and that much debt worries me, thats all.

Thanks! I'm excited to enter into the miserable life that is the UIC-COD. Any tips or advice?

John aka b10

8K? what email?
i think you have you numbers way off!
you should be around $200K in debt, my friend. are we at the same school?

p.s., looks like you finally did get in, huh. welcome (to our misery)! =)

 

[ItsGavinC]

The email I recieved had the final 05-06 tuition listed on a pdf file. Each year for an Illinois resident is as follows:

D1: $27,054
D2: $34,109
D3: $32,593
D4: $32,273

Thats not what was quoted on the website when I was applying. It's still not too bad, but last year I don't remember it exceeding $27,000 any of the years. I've heard too that they expect to continue to increase tuition as a result of Illinois' sweet education funding cuts. I'm not complaining, its just that I'm broke now and that much debt worries me, thats all.

Do those numbers include fees as well, or are they just straight tuition? Fees is where Arizona stuck it to us (tack on another 7-8k each year).

 

[uicd2]

Are those figures including the summer tuition? I hope so!

I'll send you a PM later this summer with some tips and advice.

The email I recieved had the final 05-06 tuition listed on a pdf file. Each year for an Illinois resident is as follows:

D1: $27,054
D2: $34,109
D3: $32,593
D4: $32,273

Thats not what was quoted on the website when I was applying. It's still not too bad, but last year I don't remember it exceeding $27,000 any of the years. I've heard too that they expect to continue to increase tuition as a result of Illinois' sweet education funding cuts. I'm not complaining, its just that I'm broke now and that much debt worries me, thats all.

Thanks! I'm excited to enter into the miserable life that is the UIC-COD. Any tips or advice?

John aka b10

 

[ISU_Steve]

the senior chief is right.

Thanks for the promotion.

 

[billiken10]

Those numbers include fees and summer tuition, so thats the reason for the fluctuations.

uicd2: I look forward to your PM whenever you get the opportunity. I'm nervous about school starting. I'd like to put myself in a position to have options when I finish as far as specializing, etc. But all the feedback I seem to hear is that UIC is just hell the first two years.

At the same time, I'm excited. I got to attend the AAO meeting last weekend and thought it was awesome. The technology they're developing now is going to completely revolutionize dentistry. The cone-beam CT scans by themselves are going to change the way a lot of dentistry is done.

Hope to hear from you. Thanks everyone.

b10

Are those figures including the summer tuition? I hope so!

I'll send you a PM later this summer with some tips and advice.

 

[Zurik5]

I'd like to put myself in a position to have options when I finish as far as specializing, etc.
b10

Everyone else will, too. If you're going to shoot for ortho (which, you should) then let it be known from the first day. It'll save you a lot of bull**** time later on. UIC is an enigma. Be ready for anything.....

 

[billiken10]

Everyone else will, too. If you're going to shoot for ortho (which, you should) then let it be known from the first day. It'll save you a lot of bull**** time later on. UIC is an enigma. Be ready for anything.....

I should make it known to the professors? Will that piss people off?

You guys are just trying to freak me out, right? JK... I'll be ready, or at least I tell myself I will be...

 

[uicd2]

no point in making it known to your professors until you get into ortho clinic your junior year. your freshman and sophomore prof's won't give a crap unless you are interested in perio or prostho, and maybe endo.

among your classmates, keep your interest in ortho on the DL, but if somebody asks you directly, don't lie about it.

I should make it known to the professors? Will that piss people off?

You guys are just trying to freak me out, right? JK... I'll be ready, or at least I tell myself I will be...

 

[billiken10]

I will definitely remember that. Thanks for the good advice!

no point in making it known to your professors until you get into ortho clinic your junior year. your freshman and sophomore prof's won't give a crap unless you are interested in perio or prostho, and maybe endo.

among your classmates, keep your interest in ortho on the DL, but if somebody asks you directly, don't lie about it.