Interesting case

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adpraeteritum

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New patient who was originally diagnosed with panic disorder in college. Was on Klonopin daily and Ativan as needed, which the patient said was daily. Saw psychiatrist after college who added Prozac for OCD and switched the patient to exclusively Ativan, which is what the patient is currently on. The patient says her greatest problem is OCD, which she reports having since early childhood. Her manifestation of OCD for the last 10 years has been what she describes as “memory hoarding,” which I had not heard of before but I’ve since found some information on. She said it started because her medication regimen was so complicated that she worried she would take the wrong amount and she wrote down her doses and when she took them. She wrote more and more ideas down and became worried she would lose them. She claims to have lost entire years due to the Klonopin/Ativan and that she feels dissociated and “erased.” She became more and more obsessive about writing down everything that happened but it became debilitating. She thought that she would give herself a “break” by audio recording her narration of what was going on her life. She called it “analytic talk,” and from what I can tell it was her narrating everything that she thought or that was happening to her. She started video recording using a webcam. Her problem evolved more and more to the point that she now records herself on video 24 hours a day.

When she came into my office she was discretely recording herself with her cell phone. She records herself with security cameras in her home. I was very taken aback by it and it took me a while to understand her story. I asked her to turn off the recording on her phone, which she said she did. She wanted to make it very clear to me that the recording had nothing to do with me and that her only intention is to record herself. She says that she knows it is OCD but she believes it also caused by the fear of having more “blank erased years.” She said that she almost never reviews the recordings but feels comforted by knowing that they are there and that she thinks of them as the memory that a normal person would have if they didn’t have the amnesia she believes she has from the medications.

While I had never heard of anything like this before, I’m inclined to believe that she self-diagnosed fairly well. She’s never been tried on a maximum dose of Prozac so I’m working up to that and will later discuss a benzo taper. She seemed open to both. She is already seeing a therapist who knows about the recording.

Wondering if anyone else has ever come across this before? I told her I can continue seeing her as long as she agrees not to record in session and that I would have to terminate if I found out that she did. She told me that she was terminated before when she confided in a psychiatrist that she had been recording but hadn’t told him until after they had worked together for a year. I figure that it’s progress that she told me on the first visit and claims to not record in session. That was my on the spot assessment of how to handle it.

There are still surprises in this field.

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I would keep psychosis on the differential. Any evidence of thought disorder on exam?

Does she experience a buildup of tension if she does not record and a release if she records? What happens when she does not or cannot record? Are there other obsessive compulsive features or just the recording?
 
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Agree with Bartleby. It sniffs of delusional more than obsessive at first pass.
 
Forbidding the recording during session is a form of exposure and response prevention, I would assume. I think termination if she doesnt seems a bit harsh, however.
 
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Forbidding the recording during session is a form of exposure and response prevention, I would assume. I think termination if she doesnt seems a bit harsh, however.

I'm not an expert on exposure therapy, but aren't there more gradual ways of extinguishing the behavior? Like maybe writing notes instead of recording? Also, you'd presumably address the cognitive distortions and automatic thoughts that come with the impulse, both in and out of session. Preventing the response in one setting wouldn't necessarily extend to other areas of her life either.

But I agree that the repercussion is too heavy based on the history you provided. I don't see how this is treatment threatening behavior. I would definitely get collateral from the past provider to confirm this was the reason for their termination, and not some more insidious behavior that she may or may not be aware of.
 
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I'm not an expert on exposure therapy, but aren't there more gradual ways of extinguishing the behavior? Like maybe writing notes instead of recording? Also, you'd presumably address the cognitive distortions and automatic thoughts that come with the impulse, both in and out of session. Preventing the response in one setting wouldn't necessarily extend to other areas of her life either.

But I agree that the repercussion is too heavy based on the history you provided. I don't see how this is treatment threatening behavior. I would definitely get collateral from the past provider to confirm this was the reason for their termination, and not some more insidious behavior that she may or may not be aware of.
Systematic desensitization vs. flooding. One could argue that only insisting on it in session is itself a stepwise progression in exposure.

Cognitive distortions and automatic thoughts are separate than the ExRP. They're all useful, but they serve separate purposes.

Preventing response in one setting won't necessarily extend to other areas, but if we didn't believe the work we do in the office extended, then why do ANY therapy? Start with where they are, which is in your office, then extend from there after having success in the office. Success in the office can sometimes be useful to build confidence that it's possible outside the office, too.
 
I wouldn't want sessions recorded at all, regardless of treatment.
 
Systematic desensitization vs. flooding. One could argue that only insisting on it in session is itself a stepwise progression in exposure.

Cognitive distortions and automatic thoughts are separate than the ExRP. They're all useful, but they serve separate purposes.

Thanks for the info, like I said this is a major knowledge gap for me. Any recs for a quick and easy read on ExRP? Not necessarily to practice it, but have a basic understanding?

Preventing response in one setting won't necessarily extend to other areas, but if we didn't believe the work we do in the office extended, then why do ANY therapy?

Again, not an area of expertise, but I always assumed that was the justification for homework and skills training (in the case of the behavioral therapies) and multiple sessions/week (in the case of analysis). For the therapies in between, I feel that, yes, there has to be some application of whatever therapeutic process is developed within the office to the outside in a structured fashion. But evidence for ExRP is exceptional (depending on where its being given) so I'm open to correction.
 
I wouldn't want sessions recorded at all, regardless of treatment.

I agree, just starting in psych but seems like a huge liability in so many ways. Could end up on youtube in some crazy video that makes you look terrible, there is some bad outcome and suddenly a lawyer has recording of you and can try to find minor inconsistencies in your notes, patient falls in love with you and makes some shrine of a blog focusing on your sessions, etc.
 
I agree, just starting in psych but seems like a huge liability in so many ways. Could end up on youtube in some crazy video that makes you look terrible, there is some bad outcome and suddenly a lawyer has recording of you and can try to find minor inconsistencies in your notes, patient falls in love with you and makes some shrine of a blog focusing on your sessions, etc.

Well, now you know what its like for paranoid and severely personality disordered patients to walk into the office.

I agree its strange behavior worth examining and treating, but in terms of liability I don't think its an issue. If you're practicing good medicine with the patient's best interest in mind, document your thought process thoroughly without extraneous detail or specifics, its kind of hard to sue a psychiatrist. The major settlements that get obstetricians all defensive are the ones with obvious and tragic consequences that evokes sympathy from juries. And while lawyers sound terrifying and omnipotent, if you have malpractice insurance, you'll have one too.
 
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Push up the SSRI to beyond fda doses to target the OCD and anxiety. If refractory, add risperdal or Zyprexa to augment OCD treatment and target psychosis.

Ddx is unclear. Does she have other ocd or psychotic sx? Schizo-obsessive disorders turn out to have bn on similar biological spectrums so finding the right dsm label may be less important than targeting the sx.

I'd personally let her record since alliance is so important.
 
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There's definitely a pizza in the oven--not sure whether it smells like pepperoni or sausage, though.

Make sure the pepperoni and sausauge don't touch each other though...
 
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I wonder whether explaining that people don't typically remember every facet of their life would help? It seems like an abnormal reaction to a normal phenomenon.
 
New patient who was originally diagnosed with panic disorder in college. Was on Klonopin daily and Ativan as needed, which the patient said was daily. Saw psychiatrist after college who added Prozac for OCD and switched the patient to exclusively Ativan, which is what the patient is currently on. The patient says her greatest problem is OCD, which she reports having since early childhood. Her manifestation of OCD for the last 10 years has been what she describes as “memory hoarding,” which I had not heard of before but I’ve since found some information on. She said it started because her medication regimen was so complicated that she worried she would take the wrong amount and she wrote down her doses and when she took them. She wrote more and more ideas down and became worried she would lose them. She claims to have lost entire years due to the Klonopin/Ativan and that she feels dissociated and “erased.” She became more and more obsessive about writing down everything that happened but it became debilitating. She thought that she would give herself a “break” by audio recording her narration of what was going on her life. She called it “analytic talk,” and from what I can tell it was her narrating everything that she thought or that was happening to her. She started video recording using a webcam. Her problem evolved more and more to the point that she now records herself on video 24 hours a day.

When she came into my office she was discretely recording herself with her cell phone. She records herself with security cameras in her home. I was very taken aback by it and it took me a while to understand her story. I asked her to turn off the recording on her phone, which she said she did. She wanted to make it very clear to me that the recording had nothing to do with me and that her only intention is to record herself. She says that she knows it is OCD but she believes it also caused by the fear of having more “blank erased years.” She said that she almost never reviews the recordings but feels comforted by knowing that they are there and that she thinks of them as the memory that a normal person would have if they didn’t have the amnesia she believes she has from the medications.

While I had never heard of anything like this before, I’m inclined to believe that she self-diagnosed fairly well. She’s never been tried on a maximum dose of Prozac so I’m working up to that and will later discuss a benzo taper. She seemed open to both. She is already seeing a therapist who knows about the recording.

Wondering if anyone else has ever come across this before? I told her I can continue seeing her as long as she agrees not to record in session and that I would have to terminate if I found out that she did. She told me that she was terminated before when she confided in a psychiatrist that she had been recording but hadn’t told him until after they had worked together for a year. I figure that it’s progress that she told me on the first visit and claims to not record in session. That was my on the spot assessment of how to handle it.

There are still surprises in this field.
I am not a big fan of psychological testing for diagnostic purposes typically but this is a case that it might have some benefit to clarify delusional vs obsessional and also might help uncover other problem areas that are being masked by the patients focus on this one salient symptom.
 
Smells of OCD to me. In this case the recording is the checking-like behavior of the anticipated fear/compulsive thought of "losing" memories. It's delusional only the same way as the fear of germs is in a germophobe OCD case. Or physical sx's in a hypochondriacal case. It's the fear about things that are out of conscious control, and increasing efforts to control them through conscious effort (washing hands, going to the doctor, recording).

A paradoxical approach might be to instruct her to deliberately try to forget certain things on a regular basis. Find things to not remember.
 
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I wonder if there is some reality to her actually "losing memories". That is she is so obsessed and fixated with her issues that she can't stay in the present to create any real memories. Presumably her MMSE is WNL.
 
Similar to how patients with ADHD are forgetful. It's not a memory issue, it's an attention issue.
Inattentive to the point of not remembering years in end? That's pushing it, no?


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Inattentive to the point of not remembering years in end? That's pushing it, no?


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No. Just highlighting that individuals that are very internally preoccupied (for whatever reason) or distracted don't have very good recollection of events.
 
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I have worked with quite a few individuals with long-term benzo use and memory problems have not been a complaint. However, a brief search found this result pretty easily. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1357612
What is fascinating, and why I love this field, is the irony or double-bind/catch-22 is taking benzos for anxiety (a bad long-term solution) and then being anxious about the negative effects. I have a patient with similar dynamic that we just got off of lorazepam, but still has some Xanax just in case. Having that option to treat the anxiety if needed, decreases the anxiety without needing to take it.
 
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Inattentive to the point of not remembering years in end? That's pushing it, no?


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I wonder about the veracity of that experience. Is she unable to answer concrete questions about given major events from previous years?

e.g. maybe I'm also abnormal, but I often "feel" like I don't remember anything from high school or even the beginning of undergrad. But then I'm in conversation with someone and they say something that jogs my memory and a bunch of previously forgotten memories resurface. I think that's a normal human experience.

That is, I still wonder whether she thinks most people actively think about their whole life all the time.
 
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