Interesting Idea from a Sleep Deprived Brain

[ISU_Steve]

Some of my best (or at least most entertaining) ideas come in the early hours of the morning when I am awake while I am on call for the VFD. Last night I was up and I was reading a news story from the UK about a new dental practice where something like 1,200 people showed up to try to get an appointment. Apparently there is such an insanely unbelievable shortage of dentists in the UK that this is not uncommon when a new dentist starts practice.

So this got me to thinking: perhaps there would be a possibility of getting the Brits to pay for a dental student's educational expenses in exchange for a guarantee to serve a community in the UK for a certain number of years? You gain lots of postgrad experience, people get the care they need and no worries about having to repay student loans. I'm sure that more than a few of us would do something like give 5 years of professional practice to a town in England in exchange for not having to worry about student loan repayment.

I've got some friends who work with the National Health Service and I'm going to do some digging to see if this is even a plausible idea (I doubt it is, but if it can help one of you (or me a few years down the line) then it will be well worth the effort. What does everyone think?

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[redhead]

Some of my best (or at least most entertaining) ideas come in the early hours of the morning when I am awake while I am on call for the VFD. Last night I was up and I was reading a news story from the UK about a new dental practice where something like 1,200 people showed up to try to get an appointment. Apparently there is such an insanely unbelievable shortage of dentists in the UK that this is not uncommon when a new dentist starts practice.

So this got me to thinking: perhaps there would be a possibility of getting the Brits to pay for a dental student's educational expenses in exchange for a guarantee to serve a community in the UK for a certain number of years? You gain lots of postgrad experience, people get the care they need and no worries about having to repay student loans. I'm sure that more than a few of us would do something like give 5 years of professional practice to a town in England in exchange for not having to worry about student loan repayment.

I've got some friends who work with the National Health Service and I'm going to do some digging to see if this is even a plausible idea (I doubt it is, but if it can help one of you (or me a few years down the line) then it will be well worth the effort. What does everyone think?

Cool idea. I am def. interested. Let me know what you find.
PS Doesn't UK have many dental schools? I wonder how it works over there.

 

[ISU_Steve]

I don't know what the reason for the shortage is. Would be interesting to find out.

 

[Sprgrover]

I don't know what the reason for the shortage is. Would be interesting to find out.

Socialized medicine. I hate to bring up the sordid topic of coin but money does talk.

 

[Comet208]

How recent is the news story?? i have relatives in Europe and i have never heard them talking about shortage of dentists. I think the entire Europe in general may have enough supply of healthcare people since you only need 4 years right out of HS to become a doctor. My couisn graduated from HS 5 years ago, went to med school for 4 years, and now is a general doctor. Had he chosen dentistry back then, he would be filling teeth by now. Plus, Europeans can work anywhere in the Europe.

 

[ISU_Steve]

Good point. Still I'd trade massive income potential (for a few years) if I could shake off the massive debt that comes with dental education. Hell I'd spend a few years practicing in Bumblescum, Georgia (anyone who watches Family Guy will see the humor in this comment) if I could get rid of my debt.

 

[ISU_Steve]

http://www.theherald.co.uk/news/37545.html
That's the article I was reading. It's referring to Scotland specifically.

Notice the quote: "With the national shortage of dentists, we have also struggled to attract additional dentists to the practice."

Sounds like prime hunting ground for ambitious and opportunistic American dental students, if you can find a way to wrangle a contract out of the British.

ANOTHER ARTICLE:
http://www.theherald.co.uk/features/37797.html
It is a measure of the depth of the crisis in Scottish dental provision that barely a month after the announcement of an extra £150m package to stop the rot, dentists are still spurning the National Health Service. Yesterday, Stranraer dentist Kenneth Barr was the subject of an intemperate attack from deputy health minister Rhona Brankin. His "offence" had been to move 1000 of his patients out of the NHS. Hundreds then queued to join his new private scheme.
Ms Brankin branded his behaviour as appalling and "no more than a political stunt". The reality is that Mr Barr is taking exactly the same course as scores of other dentists throughout Scotland, who have no option but to go private because remuneration from the NHS does not cover the basic running costs of their practice. This is a story about survival, not greed. It is worth noting here that Mr Barr is continuing to treat children and other groups exempted from dental charges under the state system, so presumably he is relying on his new private patients to subsidise his practice.
The executive has an election pledge to provide free dental check-ups for all by 2007. The biggest barrier to achieving that target is a drastic shortage of dentists. Last month's announcement included new measures aimed at encouraging more dentists to remain within the NHS and 200 more to join by 2008. Instead of haranguing Scottish dentists, Ms Brankin would be better advised to mount a charm offensive. If her administration is to have any hope of achieving its target, it needs to keep the dental profession on-side.
A recent study found that a mere 3.5% of dentists would consider spending more time treating NHS patients. At present barely a third are accepting all categories of patients on the NHS, and in Borders and Grampian more than 80% of dentists are refusing to take any NHS patients at all. Scotland is already lagging seriously behind its European neighbours in this department. In Norway there are around 13 dentists for every 10,000 people, while in Scotland the figure is less than six. This is in part a reflection of the traditional Scottish reluctance to submit to treatment until pain intervenes. Better education is changing this culture, but the result is a system where demand outstrips supply.
This raises two ethical issues. First, Scotland's two surviving dental schools are incapable of filling the workforce gap, despite increased intakes. We could import them, from Poland for instance, but this raises moral questions about exploiting poorer countries? Secondly, there is a danger that expectations are being raised that cannot be met. Even supposing the goal of free dental checks can be met, dental health will not improve if dentists are incapable of delivering the treatment needs that these throw up.
The idea of waiting for people's teeth to rot then filling or extracting them, is not a model for 21st-century practice. It is also professionally unsatisfying for dentists who are left feeling they are on a treadmill. Instead we should be moving to a properly funded service that focuses on prevention and offers oral health assessments as well as treatment and management. Dentists have costed that service at £520m a year, around £170m more than what is on the table, (taking into account current funding plus the additional £150m). Until the executive is prepared to put its money where its mouth is on dental health, Ms Brankin should praise dentists, rather than pillory them.




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Oh, and the reason it only takes 5 years out of HS to become a dentist in the UK is because it's considered an undergrad program there. You come out not with a doctorate, but with a bachelor's degree. Hence why they referred to the dentist in the story as "Mr." and not "Dr."

 

[ISU_Steve]

OTHER ARTICLES ON THE SAME TOPIC:
http://www.eadt.co.uk/homeStory.asp...gory=NEWS&ItemId=IPED18+Apr+2005+22:50:37:147

An explanation for the current mess:
http://www.yorkshiretoday.co.uk/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=55&ArticleID=1001547

http://www.yorkshiretoday.co.uk/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=55&ArticleID=1001269

http://www.cambs-times.co.uk/man/ne...CATOnline&itemid=NOED15+Apr+2005+10:23:19:860

http://ichuddersfield.icnetwork.co....-can-be-so-full-of-trouble-----name_page.html

 

[Comet208]

It's referring to Scotland specifically.

Notice the quote: "With the national shortage of dentists, we have also struggled to attract additional dentists to the practice.".

Isnt Scotland one of the countries with negative population growth?? Everyone is running out of there anyway. Still sad.

Sounds like prime hunting ground for ambitious and opportunistic American dental students, if you can find a way to wrangle a contract out of the British.

Good luck with that...

 

[ISU_Steve]

It's gotta be easier than some of the contracts in the US. Most of them that I have seen required you to sign up as a college freshman if not before and few of them consider dentists, as the target seems to be FP docs. Anyhow, I love a good challenge, I like dealing with the British, and it'll be good practice for my negotiating skills.

 

[JavadiCavity]

You'd be no better off making good money here and paying student loans than you would be making poor money in the UK and not paying off loans. You'd also have the much higher living expenses in th UK to pay.

Another option might be to sign up for the NHSC here in the states. They'll pay your debt and you'll earn some money.

 

[ISU_Steve]

NHSC?

 

[wammmy]

NHSC?

The NHSC will pay your tuition and supply's and that if you then work for them in one of there preselected spots.
Here is the link to the web site
http://nhsc.bhpr.hrsa.gov/index.cfm
hope that helps

 

[ISU_Steve]

I'm sorry, I think consider the possibility that I'd make mediocre amounts of money in the UK and get my loans repaid that way (which I spoke with some from an NHS trust and they said that they are considering doing what I asked about) than have to work in a ghetto or on an Indian reservation (the largest source of TB patients you'll ever find) for 4 years. Not to mention that I don't like the idea of being hindered from specializing if I so choose.

Of course, I'll probably just wind up like everyone else paying off my loans the normal way. Being an orthodontist is starting to look more and more attractice by the second.

 

[eran76]

I'm in Scotland right now on my 3 month tour of Europe. I went and spoke with the Glasgow dental hospital and school people last Friday. The long and the short of the shortage of Scottish dentists has to do with whether or not they accept payment from the NHS. There is no shortage of dentist, just a shortage of free ones. There are plenty of private dentists throughout the UK which accept Ca$h and private health insurance, but who do not take NHS patients b/c its not enough money to keep the door open.

You would not make enough money working the the UK for the NHS to pay back your loans plus the high taxes/cost-of-living they have here.

In the Scottish isles (where I'm driving to tomorrow) there is an extreme shortage of NHS dentists for various reasons. Also, there is the question transferabilty of the UK earned dental degree to the US as it is only a BS (much like nursing).

On the plus side, Scottish women and amazing and though you wouldn't make much money here this would be a great place to find a wife (which I suppose is how I ended up with a Scottish mum in the first place)

 

[egpndoc]

I'm sorry, I think consider the possibility that I'd make mediocre amounts of money in the UK and get my loans repaid that way (which I spoke with some from an NHS trust and they said that they are considering doing what I asked about) than have to work in a ghetto or on an Indian reservation (the largest source of TB patients you'll ever find) for 4 years. Not to mention that I don't like the idea of being hindered from specializing if I so choose.

Of course, I'll probably just wind up like everyone else paying off my loans the normal way. Being an orthodontist is starting to look more and more attractice by the second.

I applaud your ambition, but arent you applying for the class of 2012? Isnt that a bit early to be posting all this stuff? Concentrate more on your grades, DAT, and ECs. Than when you get accepted worry about these other things. Good luck.

 

[lunguv]

Umm...the army/navy will pay all your loans if you pledge 4 years of service.

 

[IcemanDDS]

I applaud your ambition, but arent you applying for the class of 2012? Isnt that a bit early to be posting all this stuff? Concentrate more on your grades, DAT, and ECs. Than when you get accepted worry about these other things. Good luck.

lol, talk about bursting someone's bubble. I believe he's just thinking ahead and contemplating the future as we all sometimes do. Down boy.

 

[ISU_Steve]

Umm...the army/navy will pay all your loans if you pledge 4 years of service.

Not no, but HELL NO. I spent two years in the Air Force. I've seen how all three branches (Air Force, Navy, Army) treat their docs, dentists and other health care professionals- which is to say like ****. You'd have to be completely out of your mind to give up the right to practice where you want, how you want, when you want, etc in order to be in the military. I never saw a happy dental officer and the only suicidal dentist I have ever seen was my friend Bobby who was an OMFS for the Air Force and he recently got out and went to private practice and he is far happier than I had ever seen him (he stopped by in December on his way to Washington State from Maryland). Word to the wise: tell the recruiters to go to hell.

 

[ISU_Steve]

lol, talk about bursting someone's bubble. I believe he's just thinking ahead and contemplating the future as we all sometimes do. Down boy.

Eh, no worries....he's right. I'm getting ahead of myself, but then again I am just trying to stimulate some good conversation. People do need to just take a deep breath, not get all riled up and not so pissy (not you EGPNDOC- you've conducted yourself very much like a gentleman from what I have seen so far). Most people just need to remember that we are not competition but colleagues. JMHO.

 

[toothie]

i dont think Uk accepts trained dentists from other countries.
ull have to clear the IQE. (international qualification exam..or interantional qualifying exam..) there are 3 parts that u need to clear before u get ure licence to practice.
there is definately a shortage of dentists because recently they were trying to recruit dentists from india by allowing them to give the first 2 parts of the exam in india (otherwise u have to go to UK to give all 3 parts of the exams)....