Interns doing supervisor's work?

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Mountain climber1

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Hi everyone,

I'm hoping to get some thoughts/advice. I am an intern and am currently doing work on the neuropsych service (along with other clinical responsibilities) for 1-2 cases a week. Lately, my supervisor has been asking me to do work for him that is completely unrelated to my cases and is not a learning experience for me (e.g., scoring a battery). The time I need to take to do this takes away from my own scoring and report writing--I often spend 1-2 whole nights a week writing at home. This seems to smack of inappropriate. Do others think so? I could go to my TD and address it, but am hesitant to create problems for myself.

Thanks!

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Have you spoken with your supervisor about the time it is taking to get everything done? They may not know you are spending that much extra time getting things done. They should at least have a chance to address it first.
 
I haven't spoken to her, but I'm trying to get a sense of how appropriate/inappropriate it is for her to ask me to do things for her own cases. If this is common, I'm probably better off sucking it up and finishing out the rotation. If this is inappropriate, I'm more likely to bring it up to her and discuss how it makes my work take longer.
 
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If it's for their cases at the site, it's within bounds. However, if it is getting in the way of you completing the work for your cases in a timely manner, then it may be an issue worth discussing.
 
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Is this an isolated incident? How does your site feel about you working nights from home? Are you expected to work more than 40 hours a week if needed?
 
Scoring and norming ad naseum is for techs and prac students, not predoctoral interns.
 
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Well, this supervisor treats me like a tech or prac student--I have a great deal of neuropsych experience (from 4 years of good practica) and was doing whole cases independently with supervision of course. With her, I can't do the interview (even with her there--she says she'll led me lead and then she just takes over), and she introduces me as "this is MountainClimber, my student." I'd prefer it if she introduced me by first name, last name, and as a psychology intern--make me somewhat distinguishable from the prac students. She also does not include my name on any reports I write, which is upsetting because it means I don't have a work sample to use for anything. But, our interactions end in a few months so I'm not sure how much battling this is worth. Not fun though.
 
Also, most of us work more than 40 hours--I'm at a major hospital in a major urban city. So taking work home/staying late is the norm.
 
This won't really answer your question but I'm just curious, is your site APA accredited?
 
Yep. It's an excellent site as well (and most supervisors and interns are happy--as I was until this rotation!)
 
I'm an intern and none of my supervisors would ask me to score for them. We sign all of our own reports and notes along with the supervisor, and the general expectation is that we are doing the full case ourselves with supervision. More than the extra time that you're spending at home, this just sounds like a bad training experience. I think it's worth talking to your TD about this, but they might counsel you to speak directly with your supervisor about your concerns before they can intervene. You might also want to quietly ask around to see if anyone has had a similar experience. Good luck!
 
Yeah, it's not good supervision. But I have a postdoc lined up already, which this experience won't impact. So for the sake of not starting battles, I wonder how much good it will do to speak up. Plus, I doubt my doing so will change this supervisor's approach, and she may take it as an affront to her own skills. This feels crappy.
 
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Yeah, it's not good supervision. But I have a postdoc lined up already, which this experience won't impact. So for the sake of not starting battles, I wonder how much good it will do to speak up. Plus, I doubt my doing so will change this supervisor's approach, and she may take it as an affront to her own skills. This feels crappy.
Honestly, I probably wouldn't say anything in this case. The potential for harm (this field is actually sort of tiny, in a way) seems to strongly outweigh the potential for benefit.
 
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Yeah, it's not good supervision. But I have a postdoc lined up already, which this experience won't impact. So for the sake of not starting battles, I wonder how much good it will do to speak up. Plus, I doubt my doing so will change this supervisor's approach, and she may take it as an affront to her own skills. This feels crappy.

How long is this rotation for? Do you feel like you can stick it out until then?
 
I'm in the rotation til the end of April. So a little over 2 months worth of grinning and bearing it.
 
While you need to do what's important to get by, not saying anything just passes the problem along to the next intern.

Sounds like she needs some feedback about what you want to get out of this experience. Maybe she hears you or maybe not but at least you gave her an opportunity to change.
 
While you need to do what's important to get by, not saying anything just passes the problem along to the next intern.

Sounds like she needs some feedback about what you want to get out of this experience. Maybe she hears you or maybe not but at least you gave her an opportunity to change.

It's APA approved so at least there is some 'exit interview' type documentation that you will fill out at the end of your internship year where you should be able to articulate the concern and, over time, if multiple interns do the same, this will give the TD some ammunition to definitively address the problem. Not saying you should or shouldn't bring it up directly right now (that is a decision for you to make and highly dependent on contextual variables and your own cost-benefit analysis).
 
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It's APA approved so at least there is some 'exit interview' type documentation that you will fill out at the end of your internship year where you should be able to articulate the concern and, over time, if multiple interns do the same, this will give the TD some ammunition to definitively address the problem. Not saying you should or shouldn't bring it up directly right now (that is a decision for you to make and highly dependent on contextual variables and your own cost-benefit analysis).

Agreed. Whether or not you directly address it with the supervisor and/or DCT right now (and there are certainly pros and cons both ways), mentioning it during exit interviews would be a good idea. You can even frame it the way you have here--that you don't know whether it's necessarily inappropriate, but it was a portion of that particular rotation that you feel might not have been as beneficial to your training and/or about which you had concerns.
 
Agreed. Whether or not you directly address it with the supervisor and/or DCT right now (and there are certainly pros and cons both ways), mentioning it during exit interviews would be a good idea. You can even frame it the way you have here--that you don't know whether it's necessarily inappropriate, but it was a portion of that particular rotation that you feel might not have been as beneficial to your training and/or about which you had concerns.

Yes, mentioning it during exit interviews in that manner seems to make sense/be safe, IMO.
 
Hi everyone,

I'm hoping to get some thoughts/advice. I am an intern and am currently doing work on the neuropsych service (along with other clinical responsibilities) for 1-2 cases a week. Lately, my supervisor has been asking me to do work for him that is completely unrelated to my cases and is not a learning experience for me (e.g., scoring a battery). The time I need to take to do this takes away from my own scoring and report writing--I often spend 1-2 whole nights a week writing at home. This seems to smack of inappropriate. Do others think so? I could go to my TD and address it, but am hesitant to create problems for myself.

Thanks!

These types of situations are generally difficult for more than one of the people (if not all the people) who are involved (including the intern, the individual supervisor, and the training director). While it's a clear call (in terms of being an unethical expectation) if the supervisor was 'asking' the intern to do their private practice work for them (for financial benefit of the supervisor but offering no training/experiential benefit to the intern), in reality these situations tend to be far more complicated, especially when we are considering the 'grey area' type situations. That's when I think principle-driven moral/ethical reasoning has to kick in and each situation has to be analyzed contextually. And, of course, we are talking about situations for which the governing principles of APA Accreditation, state laws regarding the practice of psychology in that jurisdiction, and institutional policies/procedures do not offer a clear and ready solution.

I was a training director for a while at a place where I was under the administrative/clinical supervision of a director of psychology (departmentally) who was herself under the clinical director (also a psychologist) and these two commonly took on interns as supervisees. Sometimes there were differences of opinion between supervisor and supervisee regarding their duties and, while I had a good enough working relationship with the other two psychologists to be able to work things out in a way that was generally acceptable to everyone, the power differential was real and obviously exerts an influence on all parties involved. Although I saw myself as clearly having a primary role identification as a strong advocate for the intern's position/rights in any such situation I also tried to use it as an opportunity to model/instruct the intern regarding how to professionally and appropriately address any concern that you have with someone with administrative and clinical authority over you in a way that minimizes discord and maintains effective working relationships and also when a 'fight' over something minor with your boss/supervisor probably just isn't worth it...which I think is a good practical lesson to folks just coming out of graduate school where there can be an overemphasis on aspirational/idealized notions of the professional practice world to the negligence of practical realities. If one intern in any one particular year upon his/her exit interview rates down the clinical director supervisor in terms of their experience, then there is going to be little I can do since that person is my supervisor and this is easily dismissed as an 'outlier' attributable to that particular intern. However, if multiple interns do the same over the course of a few years and demonstrate a clear pattern, then at least there is something to use as data to drive an analysis of what it is about these interns' experiences that is attributable to the site/location/rotation/supervisor vs. what is attributable to that particular intern...and this can be brought to a training committee.

I think that the overall context regarding the general relationship between the intern and the site/supervisor makes a big difference on how these individual situations play out as well. While I was on internship I had a wonderful relationship with the training director and he and the site bent over backwards to offer good training opportunities and to be very flexible with me when I needed it (i.e., I felt like I was 'getting a lot' from them). Now, when that TD approached me and the other interns about doing some 'grunt work' (still appropriate as it involved giving/scoring a standardized questionnaire regarding medication side effects, albeit several hundred cases :)) to get him out of a bind, we were more than happy to oblige given the nature of our relationship so far (we saw it as an opportunity to 'give back' to him and to the site). I don't see anything wrong with that. However, if our relationship had been characterized by exploitation beforehand or more generally, my reaction would have been quite different. I think it's important that interns learn that in the job world sometimes you have to do things that you don't really want to do (and things that, if you approach it like a lawyer, your job description does not 'technically' obligate you to do). One or a few instances of a boss asking you to do some 'grunt work' (and I have been on both ends of this type of situation, as a supervisor and as a supervisee) does not an exploitative/inappropriate situation make.
 
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" ..(In) .graduate school ....there can be an overemphasis on aspirational/idealized notions of the professional practice world to the negligence of practical realities. ......... I think it's important that interns learn that in the job world sometimes you have to do things that you don't really want to do (and things that, if you approach it like a lawyer, your job description does not 'technically' obligate you to do). One or a few instances of a boss asking you to do some 'grunt work' (and I have been on both ends of this type of situation, as a supervisor and as a supervisee) does not an exploitative/inappropriate situation make.

I agree with much of what was posted above, so without knowing more of the history and context the situation originally posted is hard to evaluate. And while it could be valuable to give feedback directly to the supervisor or her supervisor before or after you depart, you need to evaluate if you believe it will make a difference for the system or if it will have effects for you in terms of subsequent references/networking.
 
While I understand the reticence to do anything, I disagree with it. If no one ever brings something to light that there is a problematic situation, at least for one party involved, the chances for change are slim, and things continue status quo. We are professionals. Sometimes we have to engage in conflict resolution. Some would say that our training sets us up pretty well for this. I feel that doing nothing in this situation ignores a solid growth opportunity.
 
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While I understand the reticence to do anything, I disagree with it. If no one ever brings something to light that there is a problematic situation, at least for one party involved, the chances for change are slim, and things continue status quo. We are professionals. Sometimes we have to engage in conflict resolution. Some would say that our training sets us up pretty well for this. I feel that doing nothing in this situation ignores a solid growth opportunity.

Agreed. And in this case, it may be tough for the intern to know whether or not something is inappropriate; that may be something better determined by the DCT, which said person can't decide if they don't know what's happening.
 
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