Internship Experiences

[mrvsevolodovich]

It would be great to hear about some of folks experiences during their internship year (first or second hand).

I can post comments from anyone who does not want to have their user name associated with the remarks.

- Type of Site (e.g. VA, Children's Hospital, Community Mental Health, Counseling center, etc)
- Did you have to move for internship.
- Effect of having to move (if applicable)
- Quality of training
- Impact on career
- Stress level

I am kinda worried about my upcoming internship year and want to get a sense of what one might be in for.

Edit: Initially asked for site name but changed to site type.

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[nonaffiliate]

And also, where you would recommend renting an apartment. I'm noticing very pricey places where I want to go, and trying to find where the hidden gems are

 

[WisNeuro]

I would caution against this thread turning into an airing of grievances against programs by a small number of disgruntled former interns. Remember that you are only hearing one version of a story. Yes, there are trends, but remember the sample size here.

 

[erg923]

-Yes, I moved. I moved closer to home, which is is where wife and I wanted to raise our family, so the effect was good. We made a road trip out of it (we had movers take out stuff so we just had our cars).
-Good training, both research and clinically.
-Experience def helped my fit with my current VA job when i applied for it.
-I did not find internship stressful at all. I left at 750 and was home by 440 everyday. Weekends I played alot of golf with the one of the other inters.
-You should live where you feel most comfortable, not sure what more to say about that.

 

[OneNeuroDoctor]

Moving was the main concern for me as I had to move twice that year, for internship and post-doc. Hindsight being 20/20, I would have moved a month or more earlier to my internship city rather than waiting until after internship started. I stayed in temporary housing for about three months before getting my family totally moved to the internship city.

I know many would rather do their internship locally and this would be my preference for each program to have their own internship sites set up locally for those wanting to stay in the community they have lived the past six or more years.

I am one who does not endorse the whole process of going through a Match process and I would rather have a system of the university programs having their own internship sites. I know others will disagree with my opinion but my two-cents is that the whole internship process is exploitive of interns and salaries are below poverty level. I am surprised that a Class Action Lawsuit has not been filed by psychology students against the whole internship process endorsed by APPIC and APA as the internship should be a given requirement for the program responsibility rather than the onus of responsibility being placed on the student. To be truly fair, it would need to be an anonymous system where specific programs and students do not receive advantages. Bias occur in the selection process and many students are left out of the loop and have slim to none chance of being selected. Additionally, it seems unfair that some sites add positions after the whole process is completed and they select or cherry pick specific interns for these sites, and thus avoided the whole Match process and having interns Match to their site that may not have been as favorable.

 

[WisNeuro]

The median and average salary of interns is well above poverty level unless you have a family of more than four and you are the sole salary of the household. These figures are readily available and this misconception has been corrected before.

And, on what grounds would a lawsuit be even close to being viable? What laws are they breaking again?

 

[OneNeuroDoctor]

Due to cost of living factors of being below the poverty level. I have a family of three and was paid $17,000 for my internship. It has now increased to $25,000 at my site so it has improved in three-years. The problem is that students are delayed two to three years from completing their program and the internship should be the responsibility of the program rather than the intern responsibility. Some students are giving up and resorting to MS level licensure due to not matching and graduating with their doctoral degree. Similarly, due to non uniformity of internship standards some students apply in their third year and match and then return to their program for another year or two to finish up their dissertation. The internship should be the final task for graduation. Students should be required to have their dissertation completed before starting internship. One of the students in my internship cohort had not started their dissertation before matching and they returned to their program for two more years after finishing internship.

There needs to be a standard where each program must guarantee an internship for their students rather than have a student reach this point and leave them hanging if they do not match through APPIC. I would think that students would have just cause to file a lawsuit pertaining to the internship shortage and the program would have some culpability related to this problem.

 

[WisNeuro]

Students have all of the available information before they begin a program. They know the match rates, they know the requirements. Unless a program changes it midstream, there is no case there. Just poor planning on the student's part.

The vast majority of programs actually require that a dissertation be proposed before a student can even apply for internship. I imagine that the problem of students going back for 2-3 years is an extremely small number, and limited to a few specific programs.

You do not pay for a degree. You earn the degree. You are not forced to go through APPIC in all cases. Will it limit your career if you do not, yes? As it should. Internship should not be guaranteed, that is an absurd assumption. There are clearly students who are not prepared for independent practice. There needs to be a selection procedure.

As for the "internship shortage" myth, which is actually an "applicant surplus" problem.Why should reputable schools be held accountable for poor matriculation practices by diploma mills? If anything, it's a problem with the accreditation committee for accrediting those schools in the first place.

 

[xXIDaShizIXx]

What about the guys/gals on here that have done military internships? How was it?

 

[PsychBiker]

There needs to be a standard where each program must guarantee an internship for their students rather than have a student reach this point and leave them hanging if they do not match through APPIC. I would think that students would have just cause to file a lawsuit pertaining to the internship shortage and the program would have some culpability related to this problem.

Yes there are a some graduate students going into a doctoral program who don't realize they have to find an internship to receive their degree. How is this the program's responsibility? Where do you draw the line?

Shortage? Who is responsible for internships? Why?

 

[erg923]

There needs to be a standard where each program must guarantee an internship for their students

I agree the internship imbalance and wrong and unfair, but "guaranteed" employment?! What world do you live in? If the guy comes off as an an dingus, why the **** should anybody be obligated to hire him as an intern?

 

[OneNeuroDoctor]

A number of highly qualified students are not matching every year. A number of programs have developed a system of dedicated internship slots for their students via a consortium, and these are both traditional universities and professional schools engaging in such practices.

If internships are considered employment than many sites are not complying with fair labor and salary laws.

Frankly, every student who has reached the point of qualifying for internship has reached essential standards for completing the doctoral program. Uh... How many of you know doctoral level psychologist who would be considered a "Dingus?" I would guess that 33% of psychologist are Dinguses. Heck how many clients tell us of all of their prior negative therapists experiences. Now are we all "Saints"or should only "Saints" be offered internships or employment? No, not even close, but all doctoral students who have met the standards and guidelines of qualifying for internship deserve an internship and degree.

 

[WisNeuro]

Considering that the internship is required for doctorate, they have not completed essential standards. How are they not complying with fair labor and salary laws again?

Getting an internship is part and parcel for the degree. It is known before a student begins the program. They don't deserve, or are entitled to anything, they must earn it. And, with the proliferation of diploma mills, it has gotten harder. It is that student's job to get the opportunities that will enable them to match. It's why reputable programs have match rates that are 80%+.

 

[OneNeuroDoctor]

Fair labor laws and Salary laws are being violated due to being paid at the bottom of the totem pole, typically lower than clerical non degrees staff. Being exploited by agencies at practicum, pre and post doctoral internship. The typical Early Career Psychologist is working at MS level wages until they start up their own independent practice.

The primary reason why programs may have a 80% or higher match rate is due to number of students in the program. I believe most of these stats are based on self report from the program and there may be some degree of error. No, I am not claiming a conspiracy theory but some of the higher ranked programs do not have a high match %ile. Some of the lower ranked programs have a consortium so all of their students match. Does this make them reputable? Seems that people are confusing APA match rate as equivalent to "reputable."

 

[oathkeeper]

I did not have to move for internship so I can't comment on that. My internship is 9-5 with little down time- we generally work through lunch writing reports or notes. I do appreciate the 9-5 nature of the job because it gives me time to work on my dissertation. The stress level is high while I'm there, but very manageable. I'm close with the other interns and that helps a lot! It's a bit early to comment on how it will impact my career since I'm just starting to apply to post docs. I do feel prepared for next steps though and past interns from my site have been successful at obtaining post docs and jobs. When I was interviewing one of the questions I asked was what interns generally go on to do. Overall it's been a great experience with few negatives (a not so great supervisor, an unhelpful seminar here or there). I do think the transition from student to full time employee was an adjustment and I was so tired those first few weeks!

 

[WisNeuro]

Fair labor laws and Salary laws are being violated due to being paid at the bottom of the totem pole, typically lower than clerical non degrees staff. Being exploited by agencies at practicum, pre and post doctoral internship. The typical Early Career Psychologist is working at MS level wages until they start up their own independent practice.

The primary reason why programs may have a 80% or higher match rate is due to number of students in the program. I believe most of these stats are based on self report from the program and there may be some degree of error. No, I am not claiming a conspiracy theory but some of the higher ranked programs do not have a high match %ile. Some of the lower ranked programs have a consortium so all of their students match. Does this make them reputable? Seems that people are confusing APA match rate as equivalent to "reputable."

You are being paid commensurate with what you can earn for billing typically since they can only bill for you as a tech. And no, the typical early career psych is not working at MS level. Go check the APA salary stats, they are readily available.

Match stats are not self-report. They are verified. These are checked at site visits, and actually verified by APPIC on a yearly basis. I don't know many "highly ranked" programs with low match numbers. And those with consortiums usually do not have accredited slots, and yes, there is a good relationship between APA match rates and reputation. Take a gander at the stats. There is a reason Argosy/Alliant/Fielding are so low for both match and EPPP pass rates.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

The typical Early Career Psychologist is working at MS level wages until they start up their own independent practice.

Citation?

 

[DynamicDidactic]

1. A name brand AMC
2. Moved cities but a few hours away to a big city
3. No real consequence of moving. The city was great but the winter was abysmal.
4. Too much old school, non-scientific training
5. The name is good but not much else
6. Pretty low, I had a pretty flexible schedule that I mostly controlled. I had some cohort issues.

 

[erg923]

Uh... How many of you know doctoral level psychologist who would be considered a "Dingus?"

A not insignificant minority...

Fair labor laws and Salary laws are being violated due to being paid at the bottom of the totem pole, typically lower than clerical non degrees staff. Being exploited by agencies at practicum, pre and post doctoral internship. The typical Early Career Psychologist is working at MS level wages until they start up their own independent practice.
The primary reason why programs may have a 80% or higher match rate is due to number of students in the program. I believe most of these stats are based on self report from the program and there may be some degree of error. No, I am not claiming a conspiracy theory but some of the higher ranked programs do not have a high match %ile. Some of the lower ranked programs have a consortium so all of their students match. Does this make them reputable? Seems that people are confusing APA match rate as equivalent to "reputable."

And good job fact checking your post, btw. Pretty much this whole paragraph is wrong, as wiseneuro has corrected.

 

[OneNeuroDoctor]

Most of us are making less than 60,000 during our postdoctoral one to two years of training before we are fully licensed. This would be considered MS level wages. Furthermore, $25,000 or less would be equivalent to poverty and you would qualify for food stamps and other types of services for people in poverty. For a doctoral degree of training pre doc wages are insulting and need to be adjusted to equivalent degree training upward to the $50,000 range.

 

[WisNeuro]

Yes, because you are not a licensed practitioner. You shouldn't be making a full salary on postdoc, that would be absurd. And no, that is not poverty level. Again, these facts and figures are available. And, you need to look at other allied health disciplines salaries while on residency. We are commensurate with our MD brethren in this regard. Are you actually saying that we should be paid better on postdoc than MD's on residency, even though they bring in significantly more with billing?

 

[erg923]

Most of us are making less than 60,000 during our postdoctoral one to two years of training before we are fully licensed. This would be considered MS level wages. Furthermore, $25,000 or less would be equivalent to poverty and you would qualify for food stamps and other types of services for people in poverty. For a doctoral degree of training pre doc wages are insulting and need to be adjusted to equivalent degree training upward to the $50,000 range.

This is make believe...

1. Salary surveys do not support your stated earning for "M.S. level wages."

2. $15,730 is poverty level for ahousehold of 2. $19,790 for family of 3. For family of 4 its $23,850.

For a doctoral degree of training pre doc wages are insulting and need to be adjusted to equivalent degree training upward to the $50,000 range.

Where the **** do you propose that money come from? You want places to loose money taking interns? How the hell does that help the internship problem? Aren't you always arguing for more internships? Well, if interns now COST me, whats my incentive for starting an internship?

 

[OneNeuroDoctor]

We aren't anywhere remotely close to MD during residency. One of my friends matched last year with a family practice residency and she is being paid in the 70,000 range and they are paying for her housing. She is also qualifying for loan forgiveness during this three years.

 

[erg923]

We aren't anywhere remotely close to MD during residency. One of my friends matched last year with a family practice residency and she is being paid in the 70,000 range and they are paying for her housing. She is also qualifying for loan forgiveness during this three years.

So what?

I will ask again, who absorbs the costs in your proposal here?

 

[WisNeuro]

We aren't anywhere remotely close to MD during residency. One of my friends matched last year with a family practice residency and she is being paid in the 70,000 range and they are paying for her housing. She is also qualifying for loan forgiveness during this three years.

the plural of anecdote is not data. I can do that to. I have a friend on family med residency who makes 48k and does not get housing paid for. I outearned her as a postdoc.

Average MD stpidend for first year resident is 50k. This is also a freely available figure.

 

[PsyDr]

1) no way
2) I moved very far away.
3) I missed many of my friends and old location. But most of my cohort also moved, so that support wouldn't have been there, regardless. Outside friends remain in contact. New location was not my preference. There were many things that I did not like. Acclimating to a new environment, culture, and finding new support was difficult. My girlfriend of 2 years did not want to move which ended the relationship (no money to travel, no way to see her).
4) The training was okay. I cross trained into a new area, which made appraisal difficult. There were some aspects that simply did not interest me. Others were good.
5) Cross training set me up for a great income. Through the move, I was able to network and find a great post doc. Led to me getting several great jobs.
6) Stress level was through the roof. I had minimal income, no friends, no support, a ton to learn, etc. The job market is very rough, which meant if I didn't hustle to find something I would have been homeless in a relatively short amount of time after graduating.

 

[WisNeuro]

1- Blank
2- Same city as my Grad program (although I moved for that, and moved very far for postdoc)
3- none
4- Very good, worked with one of the bigger names in my field, got a a great letter, leading to my first choice for postdoc
5- Very good, lots of flexibility in my training experiences, helped me land very good postdoc, which helped me land a great job
6- stress level was low, training was very manageable, I very rarely went over 45 hours. I also had a fantastic cohort, several of which I am still friends with, one of which works at my current place of employment

 

[OneNeuroDoctor]

1. In the South

2. Moved - 450 miles SE from my program in Dallas, TX.

3. Move was a major hurdle as moved from one of the largest Metro areas to a rural small population city with very limited housing options.

4. Quality of training was good and interns were provided admin and supervision responsibilities. Similar to others some issues with cohort but I have been informed by others this frequently occurs.

5. Impact on career was significant since internship DCT endorsed me for my Postdoc with a clinical neuropsychologist he used to work with.

6. Stress level went in phases. High stress to begin but after midway point low stress as it seemed we just needed to finish our time requirements. I had to separate myself from too much engagement with other 3 cohort members as they tended to engage in junior high types of behaviors.

 

[Rivi]

It would be great to hear about some of folks experiences during their internship year (first or second hand).

I can post comments from anyone who does not want to have their user name associated with the remarks.

- What site (if it isn't a sensitive point)
- Did you have to move for internship.
- Effect of having to move (if applicable)
- Quality of training
- Impact on career
- Stress level

I am kinda worried about my upcoming internship year and want to get a sense of what one might be in for.

1. Don't want to say
2. Yes, several states away
3. Moving costs kind of sucked. It made defending my dissertation difficult, as I had to fly back. It also made the holidays more involved, as I had to fly back as well, which cost a bit. Otherwise, I was happy to live in a new area for a year.
4. Great supervision. We had A LOT of supervision, some of it was time consuming but overall I learned about several new approaches that I otherwise would not have learned.
5. I enjoyed internship, and it set me up very well for the direction that I want to go in.
6. Moderate stress. I had a lot of flexibility in my schedule which helped a lot, but otherwise, the work load was very reasonable.

 

[EmotRegulation]

1. VA/Consortium
2. Moved quite far away.
3. Moving was stressful and EXPENSIVE (note: save all your receipts, moving expenses are tax-deductible). By stressful I refer to the actual move, not the transplanting across the country. My site did a good job of helping students acclimate to the area, and my fellow interns and I did a lot of exploring. In fact, I completely fell in love with the area (even though it was my 3rd choice site) and I would move back there in a heartbeat if I had the option. I met my now-husband during internship and we got married in the internship city even though we'd already moved away for my job.
4. Training was good, great supervision, wide variety of clinical experiences.
5. Almost no effect on my career. I went academic, knew going into internship I would be trying for a tenure-track job, and thus internship didn't really do anything for me career wise besides give me the necessary line for my CV and the training needed to pursue licensure. I loved internship, though, and as I've said elsewhere on this board, I am glad I chose to pursue a clinically focused internship instead of the research-focused ones my advisor expected me to rank highly. For me internship gave me a profound appreciation of full-time clinical work and great experiences I can rely on when supervising trainees.
6. Extremely low compared to grad school. I too was on site from 7:50 to 4:40 each day (and sometimes not even that long!), didn't take work home, had lots of time to explore the area/have a life (see: met husband above) and to work on job applications/finish dissertation.

 

[LMK]

- Non-profit outpatient clinic
- Moved about 6 hours (drive) from where my school was and 12 hours from my family, smaller city but still a fair amount to do.
- took a few months to get my boyfriend moved due to job search, culture was difficult, very passive aggressive and very difficult to make friends. The move was hard on my relationship, and the. I was studying for the EPPP which took a tremendous toll. He asked me to get us to another state 1500 miles away from the internship state for postdoc, I did, but the relationshp ended just before the move. Far from family, no friends locally, area extremely difficult to make friends...all very hard on both of us and the relationship. Hard to know what the toll would have been if we had left him in the original city for the intern year. Also, there was one other intern but we were at different locations so I was alone with main,y masters level clinicians, some who were reportedly threatened by the company's move to hire more doctorate level people.
- I accepted the position because of the opportunity to learn a specific treatment modality which has been very helpful.
- Good because of the treatment modality I learned, not a lot of people do it where I am so I'm popular on postdoc lol! The internship was not APA and they failed to submit paperwork for APA as they said they would, so there's THAT impact.
- High. I nearly always worked though lunch and often worked late. Though I was able to work 4 tens, the fifth day we had trainings so it wasn't really a day off. Supervisors were at another location for most of the year and one left two months before I completed.

The move wasn't too expensive, I towed a trailer and it was only about 500 miles away. The postdoc move was way, way more. I asked people at the internship where to look for rentals and then used padmapper and other apps to read reviews on complexes. I drove up and looked at one apartment and signed, was happy with the choice. I like to be close to work, so that narrows the field for me, I used the same approach moving for postdoc and has to lease without physically seeing the complex, and it worked out well.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

1. VA Hospital
2. Moved ~1500mi away.
3. The city (mid-sized) was great, affordable, had plenty of good food options (surprisingly), and good culture. The move ended a relatively new relationship, though life happens.
4. Excellent training and plenty of 1:1 supervision/consultation. Only EBTs were taught. Front to back the staff provided a quality training experience.
5. My neuro mentor opened some doors for me, so that will always be appreciated.
6. It was stressful at times, though mostly due to my goals/expectations, not my DCT or supervisors. I put in extra time and attended lectures, didactics in other depts, and tried to do additional research so I could maximize my year of training.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

1. Consortium (VA and AMC)
2. I moved ~400 miles away from my grad program
3. Not much, really. I was single and expected that I'd be moving, so the biggest pain was the moving process itself. I enjoyed where I went to grad school, but also enjoyed the city (which was slightly bigger) to which I moved for internship. My cohort was great, though, so that likely factored into my enjoyment of the area as well.
4. Training was excellent, both on- and off-specialty (which for me was neuro). Got exposure to, and supervision in a handful of EBTs and populations with which I'd previously not had a whole of of experience.
5. Positive in that the supervisors all took an interest in my professional development, helped write letters of rec, and gave advice when asked. The "name brand" of the internship also seemed to help at a few postdoc sites when going through that application process.
6. Honestly, minimal. Then again, I wouldn't say my grad school or postdoc experiences were particularly stressful, either. Could just be me.

 

[psyman]

-Yes, I moved. I moved closer to home, which is is where wife and I wanted to raise our family, so the effect was good. We made a road trip out of it (we had movers take out stuff so we just had our cars).
-Good training, both research and clinically.
-Experience def helped my fit with my current VA job when i applied for it.
-I did not find internship stressful at all. I left at 750 and was home by 440 everyday. Weekends I played alot of golf with the one of the other inters.
-You should live where you feel most comfortable, not sure what more to say about that.

How many contact hours did you have per week?

 

[psyman]

The median and average salary of interns is well above poverty level unless you have a family of more than four and you are the sole salary of the household. These figures are readily available and this misconception has been corrected before.

And, on what grounds would a lawsuit be even close to being viable? What laws are they breaking again?

What do you think is the average salary for interns? I just went through the process and sure didn't see many over 25k, aside from some forensic and neuro. My internship and postdoc were both between 15 and 20k. I qualified for low income housing and food stamps both years. No MD in residency makes anything near that that I've heard.

 

[psyman]

the plural of anecdote is not data. I can do that to. I have a friend on family med residency who makes 48k and does not get housing paid for. I outearned her as a postdoc.

Average MD stpidend for first year resident is 50k. This is also a freely available figure.

And you outearning her as postdoc means most postdocs make what you did.

How long has it been since you were on internship?

 

[erg923]

How many contact hours did you have per week?

Averaged 18

 

[erg923]

What do you think is the average salary for interns? I just went through the process and sure didn't see many over 25k, aside from some forensic and neuro. My internship and postdoc were both between 15 and 20k. I qualified for low income housing and food stamps both years. No MD in residency makes anything near that that I've heard.

Why was your post doc paid so low? I've actually never seen a post-doc, outside private practice setting, lower than NIMH guidelines, which is a bit over 30k or so.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Same.

I've seen counseling centers at $25k-$30k, which I thought were the lowest (of non-sketchy options). Unfortunately there are more and more places (I'm looking at you California private practices that offer "unpaid" post-docs) that take advantage of students in order to turn a profit.

 

[smalltownpsych]

1. State hospital
2. Moved halfway across country.
3. The move was stressful, as moving is, but ended up staying in that area for the next five years and are probably going to move back there someday.
4. Training was good and I learned quite a bit from the various supervisors and clinical rotations that we experienced. Very broad experience which was one reason why the site attracted me in the first place. Also, when my primary supervisor was gone on an extended absence, I got to be the defacto psychological consultant on the unit which really helped me develop my own confidence and professional identity.
5. It set me up well for my next career moves as I developed some contacts in the community which led to a teaching gig while I finished my dissertation as well as a post-doc position when I did finally finish it!
6. The workload was pretty manageable and we worked standard 8-5 M-F. There was the usual stress of working with others in a large organization and pushing yourself to be the best and learn the most you could while providing the best care possible for your patients.

All in all, I loved internship and what I learned while there. I miss working in an ongoing training environment and someday hope to be a part of an APA internship program again.

 

[BuckeyeLove]

1. State Forensic Hospital
2. Yes, moved approx. 700 miles.
3. I had just started dating my S.O., so that was rough. Other than that no biggie. I actually drove down the night before I was set to start. I probably would change that looking back This type of response might be a bit more circumscribed to my situation, in that I have no children and was not married.
4. Excellent. Loved my rotations. Great opportunities for clinical as well as research. Set me up very well come postdoc time. I’ve always wanted to work in a state forensic hospital for my 9-5.
5. Short term impact – huge. I was overly competitive come fellowship app time, and subsequently received multiple offers. Long term, having the fellowship will allow for quicker boarding and greater referral based income in the private sector (which I wouldn’t be in place to do if not for my internship most likely). Other than that re: long term, not so sure. I have two PP’s that I’ve been in talks with and will hopefully be joining next year. These relationships were formed from previous practicum placements (I can’t stress enough how important these relationships can be. Don’t burn bridges. Foster as many meaningful relationships with supervisors as you can prior to internship. You never know when they might be beneficial down the line.)
6. Minimal. Never there more than 40 hrs in a week. If we were there longer we were told to go home.

 

[DynamicDidactic]

Why was your post doc paid so low? I've actually never seen a post-doc, outside private practice setting, lower than NIMH guidelines, which is a bit over 30k or so.

Salary guidelines for NIH postdocs is just under 40K for 2013
http://grants.nih.gov/grants/guide/notice-files/NOT-OD-12-033.html

Salaries are receiving a nice bump for 2014 to 42K
http://grants.nih.gov/grants/guide/notice-files/NOT-OD-14-046.html

What do you think is the average salary for interns? I just went through the process and sure didn't see many over 25k, aside from some forensic and neuro. My internship and postdoc were both between 15 and 20k. I qualified for low income housing and food stamps both years. No MD in residency makes anything near that that I've heard.

The average intern salary is just over 24K (as of 2011)
http://www.appic.org/Match/MatchStatistics/ApplicantSurvey2011Part1.aspx

psyman, it seems like your experience is not representative of the average intern's salary. Your post doc salary is particularly low but our only comparison is VA and NIH salary guidelines.

 

[calimich]

1. UCC at a large, public, diverse, R1, flagship U.
2. Yes. 2,200 miles, back to our home state.
3. Move was mostly uneventful, even with 2 moms and 3 cats. I arrived less than 48 hrs before internship began, don't recommend cutting it that close. Effect has been mostly all great -- much more time with family, reconnect with old friends, food, weather. Not so great is that my one-way commute has gone from ~5 mins to ~90 mins.
4. Top notch. Consistently feeling challenged and supported.
5. Not sure yet. Applying for academic jobs and post docs.
6. Low to moderate. I work 7:30-4:30, very rarely stay late and almost always take my hour lunch out of the office. If we do stay late, we're able to "flex" the time and leave early/come in late a different day. Disclaimer: this is my 2nd career and I defended my D before internship began.

 

[psyman]

Why was your post doc paid so low? I've actually never seen a post-doc, outside private practice setting, lower than NIMH guidelines, which is a bit over 30k or so.

Postdocs were paid the same as the interns (APA site).

Averaged 18

Wow. Me and all my cohort averaged about 30 contact hours. That's after no shows/cancelations. A lot of chronic patients, too. We all found it immensely stressful.

 

[WisNeuro]

It's been 2 years since I was on internship, I don't assume much has changed since then. Your postdoc was far below the median and average for the field.

 

[erg923]

Wow. Me and all my cohort averaged about 30 contact hours. That's after no shows/cancelations. A lot of chronic patients, too. We all found it immensely stressful.

So you/they were scheduling over 6 patients a day? Either you worked waaaaay over 40 hours or they didn't dedicate enough time to/for lunch, supervision, didactics, professional/peer consultation, clinical report/note writing, scholarly endeavors.

My primary care rotation had half hour slots. So I would see see up to 9-10 patient a day on that rotation, much as I do at my job now. So I still got lots of volume, but got it in half the time.

 

[psyman]

So you/they were scheduling over 6 patients a day? Either you worked waaaaay over 40 hours or they didn't dedicate enough time to/for lunch, supervision, didactics, professional/peer consultation, clinical report/note writing, scholarly endeavors.

My primary care rotation had half hour slots. So I would see see up to 9-10 patient a day on that rotation, much as I do at my job now. So I still got lots of volume, but got it in half the time.

8-5 with an hour lunch, which I was always able to take, others worked through it. We had at least 6 contact hours per day scheduled, sometimes 8. Sessions were 45 minutes and they insisted we try to complete out note in that last 15 minutes. 2 hours of didactic per week, 2 hours of individual supervision, 2 hours of group supervision I think, an hour providing supervision. We could go to random trainings or conferences at the agency or in the community if we requested. I didn't work over 40 because I got my s&$t done. Two others worked 50+ every week, sometimes 60. We all found it very stressful, in part because of the severity of many of the clients combined with workload expectations.

 

[erg923]

Your "workload expectation" during internship should be what's needed for training. We just had this discussion as we are planning our internship program. If they need workhorses then they shouldn't have even developed an internship. Working over 40 hours is fine, but I would prefer that's because I am using that time to further my career/training/vita, not because the admins view me as a clinical cash cow.

Stress about your productivity numbers and keeping admin happy should not be one of the stresses of an training experience, and I would argue that stress from those variables is counterproductive to the training process.

 

[researchgirl]

- Did you have to move for internship? Yes. Far.
- Effect of having to move (if applicable): Well, it was expensive, and my partner stayed in the place where I did graduate school, so that sucks. I also miss my old city, although the new one isn't awful or anything. A good cohort of people to hang out with helped.
- Quality of training: Great. I have great supervisors, and I'm getting great experience.
- Impact on career: TBD, since it's too early to be getting job offers.... but I came here for the reputation, so hopefully positive
- Stress level: It's what you make it. I work a max of 45 hours per week, but I often work nights/weekends on research from graduate school, my dissertation, and postdoctoral applications. I can easily get my internship work done within the 45 hours, but I have other projects I want to see progress. I think without a dissertation looming over me, my stress level would be much lower. I also think applying for post doc while you are still new to your internship is very stressful. At the same time, I walk my dog every day for 45-60 minutes, I got involved in a volunteer organization locally, and our internship cohort has happy hour every week. So, I'm not overworked or anything.

 

[mrvsevolodovich]

The idea of moving away from friends and family and then not getting along with my fellow interns is frightening.

As unrepresentative as the sample might be, it is great to see that most people felt like that got strong training.